Official BBR Tier List v7

[Doc King]

Mario and Lucas are actually pretty similar in metagame. They both have some good options, but suffer from a lot of bad points.

Lucas doesn't have potential. As theory occurs, players will master every combo and Lucas has almost none.

inb4mekos

 

[PMC66]

^ doc you are right about Lucas, so is Z gashi it's about time idiots realise that bad character is bad.

sorry i'm on nasty mode because someone said go watch such and such then you'll realise how good they are bull ****.

Mekos if you dare argue with him it just proves that your the third example of a twit who thinks Lucas is mid tier, a deluded player who couldn't get over how much his character sucks

 

[BSP]

Mario and Lucas are actually pretty similar in metagame. They both have some good options, but suffer from a lot of bad points.

IMO Mario's only huge problem is range. He's actually quite fast with some decent strings, but he just gets solidly outranged by so many other characters.

His recovery could be better too, but range thing is his prime problem.

 

[z00ted]

Illmatic top 2 contenders for your pool into bracket was Ally and a Japanese Wario (fav MU for Peach). Pools was stupid at Apex, some were free (yours) others were hard as **** (MJG's pool, Tearbear's pool come to mind)

Free

Um, nah not free.
It was Ally, Yukhoe, Dapuffster, Player-1, and myself.

Ally is Ally.

Yukhoe is an incredible Wario/Peach player who recently placed 9th at some Japanese regional (outplacing Nietono, Kakera, Rain, and a ton of others), as well as other great stuff that I've seen been pulled up.

Player-1 is ranked as third/fourth Diddy and does pretty damn well in his area.

Dapuffster is the best Jigglypuff, and it shows considering he made it to round 2 pools.

Wario is not Peach's favorite MU, but it's one I enjoy. Lots of other Peaches hate it.
My aggressive playstyle just allowed me to three stock him and two stock his Peach.

There were harder pools, Espy's one with Seagull, Dabuz, Nicole, and someone else come to mind as well as Tearbear/MJG's (which wasn't too hard Coney/Vinnie) also, but mine wasn't even moderate.

Don't underestimate Japanese players just because you haven't heard of them.

Ally (0-2)
Player-1 (2-0)
Yukhoe (2-1)
Dapuffster (2-0)

I'm pretty sure Yukhoe beat everyone else in our pool other than Ally and myself, and he 2-0'd them to boot. Had a game that was extremely close with Ally, iirc.

Who did Illmatic beat in bracket at Apex, then?
Cause he got 33rd.

Lost to Nietono (0-2)
Beat X (2-0)
Lost to Reflex (0-2)

Ouch kain that hurts

He's in the same boat as you, lol.

#IllwilllosetomeandKain

Nah, I'm too broken now.

^ doc you are right about Lucas, so is Z gashi it's about time idiots realise that bad character is bad.

sorry i'm on nasty mode because someone said go watch such and such then you'll realise how good they are bull ****.

Mekos if you dare argue with him it just proves that your the third example of a twit who thinks Lucas is mid tier, a deluded player who couldn't get over how much his character sucks

Why are you getting so upset over Lucas?
Your arguments are terrible. MU spreads don't 100% determine tier list position.

Name a current Mario who is anywhere near the tournament success of Lucas'.

 

[_Kain_]

Yukhoe is free, cause I played him and know, he Cged me to 220% and I still styled on him.

Quit lying

 

[z00ted]

Not lying, I'd have to find the AiB results blog.
He's good, I have no reason to make stuff up.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Fyi I wasn't saying look at them because they do well. They utilize lucas and show it isn't as simple as getting outranged. Look at luigi.

And character success goes into tier lists, so good players is actually very relevant.

Either way, the new tier list just came out, so this is the time for butthurt people to complain that their character dropped/didn't rise. It isn't complaining that other people might rise. That's at least a month down the road from now

Oh and Stevo has tournament success with Mario.

 

[_Kain_]

LMAO dude I'm jk, I played Yukhoe at Apex the first day, he's good but IMO US Warios are still way better (Sky, Reflex)

I just think it's silly to judge characters based on who made it to bracket, when some pools were way easier, or way harder, when some characters had to deal with way harder MU's/players, while some didn't. So many variables you actually have to go into to make a good judgement on any claims on tier placements based on one tournament

Alot comes into play with that, and just don't understand why this community is always so quick to jump to conclusions off of such little things as one match, one tournament, or one players claims

Knowing how good your character actually is, and knowing when your pushing said character past it's limit is something I just want alot of players to realize already lol. Peach is bad, so is Wolf, that's why there kinda right next to each other (I think Fox should be above Wolf, and Peach below Wolf)

 

[z00ted]

I agree 100%, especially with the MU stuff and who you meet in such a large tournament i.e. Apex.

It's really dumb when people try to bandwagon a character when they don't know who they ended up going against in the actual tournament.

 

[Espy Rose]

Hylian was also in my pool, Ill.

 

[Doc King]

Usually I see Mekos get ***** by a top tier.

He did 3 stock a Luigi, but he imo is a low tier and it's really not an accomplishment if Lucas can beat Luigi if he's just gonna get 3 stocked by Marth, Olimar, King Dedede, Donkey Kong, Sheik, and some others.

In Xanadu, Mekos got ***** by Coney's Dedede and lost to Logic's Olimar.

The most ******** thing is that ppl will say Dedede sucks because he loses to top tiers but Lucas is basically the same thing but gets ***** by middle tiers and really doesn't **** (But instead beats most low tiers). I usually see mekos get shut down by a top tier character and it just ends like that.

 

[Player-1]

Yukhoe 2-1ed me. I 2 stocked him game 1 then game 2 I 0 to deathed him, he brought it back and farted me at 60% and I died and game 3 he 2 stocked me (probably would have 1 stock but I rushed in cuz it was going to time). He was just adapts extreme well

 

[z00ted]

Damn, that is one hard pool.
Who made that LOOL?

 

[Mekos]

Usually I see Mekos get ***** by a top tier.

He did 3 stock a Luigi, but he imo is a low tier and it's really not an accomplishment if Lucas can beat Luigi if he's just gonna get 3 stocked by Marth, Olimar, King Dedede, Donkey Kong, Sheik, and some others.

In Xanadu, Mekos got ***** by Coney's Dedede and lost to Logic's Olimar.

The most ******** thing is that ppl will say Dedede sucks because he loses to top tiers but Lucas is basically the same thing but gets ***** by middle tiers and really doesn't **** (But instead beats most low tiers). I usually see mekos get shut down by a top tier character and it just ends like that.

Calm down son...

I'm like a Saiyan...I get stronger after every fight. That was the first time I played the best DDD in the US. He did stuff I didn't expect at all. U can see my growth from game 1 to game 2. I'm not gonna argue about lucas. I don't even know who u are man
And u actually don't follow me that well. Since genesis 2 I've beaten every marth in tourney and money matches. It's not all about theory son. It's about heart sometimes.

U guys can say what u want. But alot of you guys are saying things that are so off it's funny. Keep at it tho. I'm loling over here.

And Doc King u say u see me get ***** by top tier characters? Sorry I don't go around saving me ****** scrubs or new players...I only like to record matches against top level players so I can learn from my mistakes. But I'll let you know I only lose to people who are listed in the top 5 thread. Never lost to someone like you who is not on that list
So to make it clearer that means that I am beating snakes, marths, DDDs, all those top tier characters you say are ****** me. The best of the best in US is what is beating me with those characters and that is it. I just joined in 2010 so when you see me on stream sometimes that is my first time playing that top level player with that character. Give a guy a break. Havn't had since 08 to learn matchups and player specific habits.

 

[Sunnysunny]

It's not all about theory son. It's about heart sometimes.

This guy knows whats up. <3

 

[Jimmy?]

So much Lucas hate.

Just because he's a bad character doesn't mean Mid is necessarily out of his reach. It's not like characters in low mid aren't garbage characters, too.

I don't really care too much about his placing in the tier list (since I'm a scrub who just likes sounding intelligent by reading stuff like this... because errbody still thinks this game is topical and relevant), but the people arguing for how bad Lucas is aren't really giving arguments. "Loses to top tier" and "You're an idiot if you don't agree with me" aren't arguments for why moving him into Mid is a mistake.

And it's like.... showing that a good Lucas player can win matches doesn't mean anything? But seeing a top tier character beat a scrub Lucas is reason enough that he needs to stay in Low tier?

He's a bad character, sure, but you guys really aren't selling that....

 

[ViperGold42]

Calm down son...

I'm like a Saiyan...I get stronger after every fight. That was the first time I played the best DDD in the US. He did stuff I didn't expect at all. U can see my growth from game 1 to game 2. I'm not gonna argue about lucas. I don't even know who u are man
And u actually don't follow me that well. Since genesis 2 I've beaten every marth in tourney and money matches. It's not all about theory son. It's about heart sometimes.

U guys can say what u want. But alot of you guys are saying things that are so off it's funny. Keep at it tho. I'm loling over here.

And Doc King u say u see me get ***** by top tier characters? Sorry I don't go around saving me ****** scrubs or new players...I only like to record matches against top level players so I can learn from my mistakes. But I'll let you know I only lose to people who are listed in the top 5 thread. Never lost to someone like you who is not on that list

I respect the hell out of you, i LOST to M2K in Brawl but instead of thinking of the negative of what happened I practice with ZSS to beat every Meta Knight I've played since then.

 

[Mekos]

Yea man I had that happen to me at genesis 2 in friendlies. I couldn't touch m2k then. I honestly got slightly depressed and was like this matchup is impossible. But I went into the hyperbolic time chamber and created a new playstyle for lucas. Now when me and m2k play friendlies we go even.
Never give up no matter what negative people say. Their opinions don't matter anyways.

Thanks by the way

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I always have difficulty reading people, that post made me tear. Gives me inspiration that with pure vitality, I can accomplish great things.

When I see posts like these, it gives me hope that SWF isn't populated with a bunch of morons and *******s. There are truly some people still in love with the game.

 

[Doc King]

So much Lucas hate.

Just because he's a bad character doesn't mean Mid is necessarily out of his reach. It's not like characters in low mid aren't garbage characters, too.

I don't really care too much about his placing in the tier list (since I'm a scrub who just likes sounding intelligent by reading stuff like this... because errbody still thinks this game is topical and relevant), but the people arguing for how bad Lucas is aren't really giving arguments. "Loses to top tier" and "You're an idiot if you don't agree with me" aren't arguments for why moving him into Mid is a mistake.

And it's like.... showing that a good Lucas player can win matches doesn't mean anything? But seeing a top tier character beat a scrub Lucas is reason enough that he needs to stay in Low tier?

He's a bad character, sure, but you guys really aren't selling that....

That's the main problem I have with this tier list arrangement. There are too many crap characters that don't deserve to be called mediocre. Low = Bad Mid = Mediocre and High = Good.

Morons and *******s play Brawl. :/

 

[Jimmy?]

So your main argument is that the empirical evidence used to craft the list don't mesh with what you think, so you just kind of yell at everyone? It's fine to disagree with the list, it's obviously not something everyone agrees with.

But instead of trying to say who you think should be where, you just swear at everybody? kk.

For what it's worth, though, I'm pretty sure the people saying "Dedede sucks" and "Lucas is good" are saying that comparatively. They think Dedede is worse than the people he's been traditionally ranked around, and that Lucas is better than those he's ranked around. :/

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't even know who u are man

Nobody does, really XD

 

[Seagull Joe]

That's the main problem I have with this tier list arrangement. There are too many crap characters that don't deserve to be called mediocre. Low = Bad Mid = Mediocre and High = Good.

Morons and *******s play Brawl. :/

Show us your opinion on a tier list then with distinctions of top, high, mid, low, bottom if you wanna break it down to 5 or in what way you seem fit.

Calm down son...

I'm like a Saiyan...I get stronger after every fight. That was the first time I played the best DDD in the US. He did stuff I didn't expect at all. U can see my growth from game 1 to game 2. I'm not gonna argue about lucas. I don't even know who u are man
And u actually don't follow me that well. Since genesis 2 I've beaten every marth in tourney and money matches. It's not all about theory son. It's about heart sometimes.

U guys can say what u want. But alot of you guys are saying things that are so off it's funny. Keep at it tho. I'm loling over here.

And Doc King u say u see me get ***** by top tier characters? Sorry I don't go around saving me ****** scrubs or new players...I only like to record matches against top level players so I can learn from my mistakes. But I'll let you know I only lose to people who are listed in the top 5 thread. Never lost to someone like you who is not on that list
So to make it clearer that means that I am beating snakes, marths, DDDs, all those top tier characters you say are ****** me. The best of the best in US is what is beating me with those characters and that is it. I just joined in 2010 so when you see me on stream sometimes that is my first time playing that top level player with that character. Give a guy a break. Havn't had since 08 to learn matchups and player specific habits.

I don't think is LT and I've seen you play a bunch, but you can't use that excuse (I joined in 2010) anymore. Gets old and it's 2012. 2 years difference in time. Ain't like you started two-three months ago. Esam wasn't even known/existed heavily in the smash community (Least brawl) till 2010 at the Mlg's...

Nobody does, really XD

I do. He's Coney's little brother Dale.

 

[Mekos]

My point is valid.

In other words tourney experience is very important. Esam has probably gone to three times as many tourneys as me. For example, that recent Xanadu was my first time every playing the best DDD in the US. Friendly, mm, tourney, or whatever that was my first time. It is like that with me for alot of matchups.

In our community most people have a bad attitude and only play serious in tourney. For example, it's 2012 and I still have never played the great Seagull. Our money match didn't count because it was a dollar. So u see I have never played a top wolf. Never "experienced" it. Most of the time I am just going off my reading skills and not "experience". So I have to quickly learn individual habits during the set.

 

[Scatz]

Of course. It is about the money in USA after all.

 

[Mekos]

Yea and that mentality holds back the community as a whole. People can't grow and get better as quickly.

I don't get why smashers are like that. In halo 2, no one really "sandbagged". People took advantage of every opportunity to get better and work on their team.
I think it is because there are less johns. In alot of FPS all the characters are the same. So if you lose it comes down to only yer individual skill and your teamwork. No MU or stage excuses.
Everyone has the same tools


@Seagull - M2k and Kadaj are players that have been around since 08. They both have books of player habits. M2k has guides in his laptop for players he has faced.
Try to understand my point please. Experience is crucial.

 

[Scatz]

I'm sorry, but you're definitely wrong. People in Halo 2 definitely sandbagged. As one being around and playing against top competitors, it's definitely easy to tell when they are or not.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Yea and that mentality holds back the community as a whole. People can't grow and get better as quickly.

I don't get why smashers are like that. In halo 2, no one really "sandbagged". People took advantage of every opportunity to get better and work on their team.
I think it is because there are less johns. In alot of FPS all the characters are the same. So if you lose it comes down to only yer individual skill and your teamwork. No MU or stage excuses.
Everyone has the same tools


@Seagull - M2k and Kadaj are players that have been around since 08. They both have books of player habits. M2k has guides in his laptop for players he has faced.
Try to understand my point please. Experience is crucial.

M2k has guides in his laptop...? Really?

 

[Mekos]

Dude I was a top player in halo 2. Etigris was my tag and Etigre later on.
We only joked around if it was an easy win. We still played and won. And I'm talking about teams. Not people going into random matches online and being paired up with random people.
So scatz if you really played a top team and saw them not trying, I bet you still lost.

We never would lose and then john about it and be like "we aren't trying because it is not tourney". You get it?

@Seguall - Yea.

 

[ViperGold42]

M2k has guides in his laptop...? Really?

getting the edge on everyone else. smart but also somewhat disturbing to be honest.

 

[Seagull Joe]

M2k's death note.

 

[Mekos]

lolololololol nice

 

[Scatz]

Dude I was a top player in halo 2. Etigris was my tag and Etigre later on.
We only joked around if it was an easy win. We still played and won. And I'm talking about teams. Not people going into random matches online and being paired up with random people.
So scatz if you really played a top team and saw them not trying, I bet you still lost.

We never would lose and then john about it and be like "we aren't trying because it is not tourney". You get it?

@Seguall - Yea.

I already knew what you were saying beforehand. Sandbagging used here is pretty dumb since they use it when they lose. Still doesn't change the fact that that team wasn't going all out, or that they made more mistakes than they would against a legit team. Anyways, what team were you with? I never heard of you. You placed at any of the MLGs?

 

[Mekos]

shoo that was 2006. My parents didn't "believe" in competitive gaming. I could only go to one MLG because I was in highschool and had to listen to them lol.
I teamed with Dizzy Peguin, Pepperz, and Gun shot. Gun shot was the most famous. You probably heard of him. Here is one of his montages. All the noobs loved Gun shot. He was known too play alot of FFA with randoms and just dominate them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDcK37IF27M

If by placing you mean made it to pro bracket...yes we did. Again only had one opportunity so that is why you didn't see me at MLGs.
But online competiton in halo 2 was official. We were in the top tier player crowd and we all played together(ogre 1, ogre 2, Snipedown, etc) I think my old 2v2 match making partner Snipedown is playing competitively again(halo reach). You have probably heard of him if you keep up with the halo scene.

 

[Player-1]

I would wreck mekos in halo


Just sayin

 

[Scatz]

I have heard of them. Pretty easy names to remember during then.

That explains why I never heard of you then. Most of the players I remember were attending MLG tourneys. I never really took online play very serious since there were ways to cheat so easily. Anyways, Derailing the thread, so I'll end it here.

 

[Blacknight99923]

this thread has made me decide that one of the best things about being a metaknight main is that I don't have to try to prove my character is better than another character and then get in silly internet arguments about how peach is worse than wolf, or how lucas should be mid tier.

 

[Mekos]

I have heard of them. Pretty easy names to remember during then.

That explains why I never heard of you then. Most of the players I remember were attending MLG tourneys. I never really took online play very serious since there were ways to cheat so easily. Anyways, Derailing the thread, so I'll end it here.

Ah sorry misread yer comment. Yea that is probably it. The top tier players mostly chilled in lobbies and played each other. Playing randoms in matchmaking is where that cheating occurred.

 

[Fuujin]

Mekos do you have ADHD?

 

[z00ted]

this thread has made me decide that one of the best things about being a metaknight main is that I don't have to try to prove my character is better than another character and then get in silly internet arguments about how peach is worse than wolf, or how lucas should be mid tier.

People who matter don't care about these things in the first place.
If anything, we just joke around about it.

-

Involving Doc King / that random SWF user who barged in and started bashing Lucas/Mekos for no reason whatsoever.

You two just got utterly demolished by Mekos and like five other people with at least half a brain in every way possible. Please just shut the **** up and never enter this thread again until you take the time to think about what you say before you post it.

People like you are the reason why most people don't even bother checking this thread or contributing to it in the first place, despite the chance of them having something worthwhile to say. It gets old and lame, especially when your arguments are, "YoUR A IDIOT IF YOU DONT AGREE!@*#!!!&(!!"