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Official BBR Tier List v7

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SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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B0NK said:
Doesn't change the fact MK has an advantage on every character, has a huge success gap compared to the rest of the cast, 75% of SWF opinions at one point was the character should be banned, and is over-centralized in our metagame. MK is ban-worthy, MK's losing to match ups they play against wrong doesn't change that.

I'm really only suggesting that TOs allow players attending their tournaments to decide the ruleset with a poll. Not just let the one top player friend decide the ruleset. It'll be better for their business and the community.
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I could argue that characters that go even with MK losing match ups is just those characters playing the match up wrong.

Explain to me how losing the Japanese players is good for the community
 
Supermodel From Paris

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SaveMeJebus said:
I could argue that characters that go even with MK losing match ups is just those characters playing the match up wrong.

Explain to me how losing the Japanese players is good for the community
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Any community that thinks MK isn't Akuma-level broken is worth losing. Bye bye, Japan!

Jebus, your entire strategy in arguing the MK debate has always been to say the most outlandish, factually incorrect thing possible as though it's fact because you know pro-ban has to waste hours digging up the data that shows how dumb you are, which is why people stopped responding to you last time btw. You're pretty much an idiot.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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The fact is that MK is beatable. There are tournaments to prove it.

International competition is better for the community then having a bunch of players (who have already quit and will most likely quit again when they find out they just sucked) come back.

We tried it in Socal. It worked in the beginning, then players stopped showing up when the same players continued two win.
 
B0NK

B0NK

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SaveMeJebus said:
The fact is that MK is beatable. There are tournaments to prove it.
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When the MK player plays the match up wrong, sure, he's beatable. Even when he's being beaten every now and then he still has a huge margin of success when compared to the rest of the cast, is over-centralizing, and is ban-worthy.

SaveMeJebus said:
International competition is better for the community then having a bunch of players (who have already quit and will most likely quit again when they find out they just sucked) come back.

We tried it in Socal. It worked in the beginning, then players stopped showing up when the same players continued two win.
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This is irrelevant to the argument. Don't even know where this came from.
 
Delta-cod

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SaveMeJebus said:
The fact is that MK is beatable. There are tournaments to prove it.
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If by "MK is beatable" you mean "MK players make mistakes and are beatable", then yes.

I've had Gunblade shut me down harder as MK than M2K has ever done, because Gunblade knows what he's doing against Yoshi so he doesn't make silly mistakes that give me a chance.
 
B0NK

B0NK

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They don't have to be, they just have to play the match up right, more consistently.

So where's the part when you show me MK doesn't have an advantage in every match-up, isn't over-centralized in the metagame, that the majority of the community doesn't believe he should be banned (75% at one point says he does), doesn't have the most success by a huge margin above the rest of the cast in all levels of play, and is not ban-worthy? And when are you going to show me TOs having a poll for the attendees on rulesets is a bad idea?

That's right, you won't show me, cause all you have done is cherry-picked and link to videos that don't show otherwise
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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B0NK said:
They don't have to be, they just have to play the match up right, more consistently.

So where's the part when you show me MK doesn't have an advantage in every match-up, isn't over-centralized in the metagame, that the majority of the community doesn't believe he should be banned (75% at one point says he does), and doesn't have the most success by a huge margin above the rest of the cast in all levels of play? And when are you going to show me TOs having a poll for the attendees on rulesets is a bad idea?

That's right, you won't show me, cause all you have done is link to videos that don't show otherwise
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I showed you with videos that MK is beatable. You can't prove to me that MK destroyes everyone either. Just because the community wants him banned doesn't make it the right choice.10X as many players playing him obviously means he's going to be more successful.

Just quit your crying. If TOs don't want to make polls, you can always host your own tournaments if you want MK banned tournaments.
 
B0NK

B0NK

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You showed me you can cherry-pick a few videos that prove nothing. You didn't show me that MK is beatable, only that he's beatable when the MK is playing a match-up wrong. (Even then, he can still win).

I can show you that MK dominates the rest of the cast in success in all level of play and therefore is ban-worthy. I never said MK absolutely "destroys" the entire cast in head-to-head, just that he beats the entire cast. Stop putting words in my mouth.

And I'm just suggesting a good business idea to TOs since I do not have the financial means right now to host a tourney myself. I'm saying that voting should be the standard as well, and that TOs should be encouraged to host with polls.

You call it crying, I call it unethical that anti-ban has been given all the evidence they asked for and that the only reason there is still MK legal tournies is because the TOs are just hosting for their few top player MK friends (or themselves). Not the community as a whole.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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Like there is much of a difference between domination and destruction. Any player's opinions on match ups are just that. Opinions. What I say or what you say or even what a top player says doesn't really matter. What matters are results.


They are hosting the tournament and they can host it any way they want to.
 
B0NK

B0NK

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SaveMeJebus said:
Like there is much of a difference between domination and destruction. Any player's opinions on match ups are just that. Opinions. What I say or what you say or even what a top player says doesn't really matter. What matters are results.
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Go ahead and prove to everyone that MK doesn't win every match-up, I'm still waiting for that. Go ahead and prove that it's not true with results, still waiting for that too. I have been waiting since 08. Results show that MK is more successful then the rest of the cast by a huge margin, is over-centralized in the meta-game, and therefore ban-worthy.

And I said MK dominates/"destroys" the cast when you compare how much success he has compared to the rest of the cast. I did not say he destroys every match up when facing them head-to-head like you are implying I said. I said he just wins in every match up.
 
B0NK

B0NK

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I say "SS" tier characters should be banned, because they are over-centralizing and dominate how successful in tourney other characters are compared to him by a huge margin.

Cherry-picking results of tourneys that he still had more success at then the rest of the cast proves nothing but MK is ban-worthy and that a couple of MK mains played the match up wrong that day.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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B0NK said:
I say "SS" tier characters should be banned, because they are over-centralizing and dominate how successful in tourney other characters are compared to him by a huge margin.
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pro-ban has their opinions, Anti-ban has theirs
 
B0NK

B0NK

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Anti-ban's opinions have no evidence supporting that MK is not over-centralizing and ban-worthy. Nor do they have majority opinion that MK should be legal.

(75% at one point, and majority opinion wanting MK banned in almost every poll shows that the community as a whole would rather have him banned).

The burden of proof was on Pro-Ban, and Pro-Banned proved MK is ban-worthy using un-bias data. Anti-ban has not, and can not show the community otherwise.
 
B0NK

B0NK

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You do not have majority opinion's interpretation of the data. MK has a huge margin of success, holding over 50% of the money made in tourney. (This would not change drastically if you took out pot bonuses). He is also the more popular choice of character by a large margin. This shows he is over-centralizing the metagame, and it's effects are clearly negative. For these reason, MK is ban-worthy. And the majority of the community agrees.

He is not banned at most events now because TOs are only hosting tourneys for themselves and their MK-maining friends. If they were to hold polls like I suggest, they would be able to hold tourneys more people would be happy with.
 
BlueXenon

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I agree with a lot of pro-ban posts. But the reason I still don't think MK should be banned is because so many people main him. These players put years of work into improving their metaknight, and It's hard to believe that people want all their work to be a waste of time. Imagine if your main character that you put so much work into was banned because he/she was too good. Im sure everyone would hate if that happened to them.
 
DeLux

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BlueXenon said:
I agree with a lot of pro-ban posts. But the reason I still don't think MK should be banned is because so many people main him. These players put years of work into improving their metaknight, and It's hard to believe that people want all their work to be a waste of time. Imagine if your main character that you put so much work into was banned because he/she was too good. Im sure everyone would hate if that happened to them.
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I would not care in the slightest if they banned my main, so -1 person on everyone and currently will rarely to never go ICs locally anymore because of it
 
B0NK

B0NK

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Other character mains put years of work into their characters to beat MK players, why is it fair that a character that should never be beaten should be allowed in tourney play to dominate the other 36 character's in the cast potential success? If my main character was banned because data showed he was over-centralizing and ban worthy, then I would say he should be banned too.

Hosting polls for tournaments allows you to host what will make the most people happy. If your community is happy with MK being legal, then he would stay legal at your events. Never leaving the option for MK-banned tourneys because of personal reasons is unethical. Especially when it's been shown with un-bias data and majority opinion that he is ban-worthy.
 
B0NK

B0NK

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Osennecho said:
.........Say what? And he's bound to win more $ with more entrants...
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No, if 100 top players entered as Ganon against 25 top players entering as MK, the MK players would still win. He is popular because he is ban-worthy good, and it's illogical to pick any other character if you are playing to win.

If we were to ban MK, no other character would show nearly as much success and popularity in comparison to the rest of the cast as MK has. To prove this with un-bias data though, we would need to host as many MK-banned events as there were MK-legal events.

One way to get this started is with attendees voting in a poll on the ruleset before the event. This would make more attendees happier and give MK-banned tourneys a chance. TOs right now have stop having polls and hosting MK-banned events for personal reasons or because they are, not for the good of the community.
 
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