Offensive Aggressive Sheiks

[joejoe22802]

Anyone able to point me in the direction of some of these videos?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Amsah is probably your best bet on this one.

 

[The_Doug]

Overtriforce has some decent offensive vids. Mango has a couple of vids also.

 

[joejoe22802]

I feel like this kind of **** doesn't work unless your opponent doens't know how to shield, crouch cancel, and has an impatient OoS game.

I guess the question is when does this happen and how to make this happen?

This is what I see when I compare Amsah vs PP and KK vs PP.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think the biggest difference in my sets with PP and Amsah's set with PP is that I did way more damage when I converted my stray hits into combos or gimps. I don't think Amsah losing to Dr. PP is indicative of offensive Sheik play being unviable. PP also improved from ROM3 for Pound 5.

More on topic - I have always felt that Sheik is best suited to defensive play. However, being good at her offense (or knowing it) is invaluable sometimes and is a really good alternative to go to when you encounter someone who is either more patient than you or understands the weaknesses in Sheik's defense (and can execute against it).

Impatient OOS game is countered by spaced move spam. Patient OOS game is countered by conditioning (acquire grabs).

 

[Niko45]

All sheiks offend me.

 

[knightpraetor]

me too..but at least KK's posts make me think...i think maybe i'm not patient enough moving out of shield vs sheik..it's too scary. and also, my own sheik is defensive because defensive sheik relies on knowing your opponent well..and i know marth pretty well at this point..while offensive sheik requires you to actually know sheik..

but the sheik i have trouble with is offensive.and i get picked apart for leaving shield a lot...also get picked apart by dash attack...that move...so scary once i'm out of cc percent.

 

[Teczer0]

I think sheik's offensive game for the most part is just learning how to trap your opponent.

And spacing fairs and ftilts and such.

KK, I've been thinking of the possibility but I might as well ask. Have you tried mixing up spacing SH fair into a low nair mixup? On shield I mean.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I used to do that but lately I've been questioning what exactly that kind of pressure accomplishes.

I'll explain it more later - gotta get ready for a night out right now.

 

[Teczer0]

Sidesteps?

But yea I just thought about it again you can just mix up with grab or just stand there.

 

[KirbyKaze]

me too..but at least KK's posts make me think...i think maybe i'm not patient enough moving out of shield vs sheik..it's too scary. and also, my own sheik is defensive because defensive sheik relies on knowing your opponent well..and i know marth pretty well at this point..while offensive sheik requires you to actually know sheik..

I don't think shielding vs Sheik is good with Marth in a general sense.

People that pick up Sheik gravitate towards defense because it's better, easier, and because they associate the feeling of playing 'gay' with playing Sheik successfully as a result of past experiences.

Offensive Sheik is weird - you need to execute stuff in a tighter window. When you move back, you broaden the confirmation window (opponent attacked with nair and missed, etc) and then respond to it with the correct option (grab, f-tilt, more movement, etc). When you move towards your opponent, you shrink that window in exchange for a different kind of pressure. So it's a very different playstyle.

Offense has some perks though.




edit:

By "execute stuff" I mean, you need to go through the mental process of confirming the opponent's action and taking the appropriate response in a much tighter reaction window. I don't actually mean the inputs are necessarily faster.

 

[odinNJ]

My sheik is offensive when I play her and I find myself trying to catch people off of landings.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You do that no matter what style of Sheik you're playing

 

[leffen]

You need to be able to use both offense and defense to be a good Sheik main
Leaning towards one side is very common though and imo viable with all characters.

What I consider a "offensive" sheik is imo very viable and honestly all characters can be played offensively

however, most people define offense/defense VERY badly/weirdly (MANGO'S DASH DANCE/PLATFORM CAMPING IS OFFENSIVE!!!, HUNGRYBOX CONSTANTLY APPROACHING WITH BAIR WHILE FOX LASERS/ DASH DANCE CAMPS=DEFENSIVE!!!111)

sigh.
people also have this weird idea that hitting shield with moves is offensive and grabbing shields is not
sheiks attacks force ppl to sheild and they **** rolls / spotdodges, bad vs crouch cancels
sheiks grab has extremely high reward and ***** shields and crouch cancel

sheik also kinda sucks at "dash dance grabbing" (a la marth) so being offensive against the characters where grab has a better reward/risk in comparison to fade away aerials /needles is to be prefered imo (falco, samus, peach, sheik dittos among others)

and then there is the fact that stage control exists and that most players generally forget its role

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

This is a bad idea but, would you consider this aggressive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKk2-aMcUJM&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ickpVALsc

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sure, why not