• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

=O new OU List without Gallade =O

WouW

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
1,486
Location
Oudenbosch, The Netherlands
Okau, Wouw, get off of my case and actually read what's being said, or just shut up. Honestly. This is probably my smallest Wall of Text attack yet, but here goes. *fires*
Your Wall of Fire attacks are annoying me.

I never said that I could super-effective-kill Tyranitar with an Ice-Attack. What was said is that it takes MORE DAMAGE from Ice than it does from Fire.
Neither did I. It is more effective, yes - but not vulnerable. Besides, anything with the only two moves to hit Ttar being Fire and Ice just sounds stupid. I searched a bit on Smogon, but I saw no Fire/Ice combo. Also, with Sandstorm Tyranitar actually resists special Ice, so yeah.
Da-D-Mon-109 said:
felt like color-cordinating the pokemon in the OU tier who are vunerable to Fire and who are vunerable to Ice.
This is what you posted under your list. Tyranitar isn't 'vunerable' to Ice. It resists it.
Also, now don't come up yet again with 'fire is still less effective' because there are over hundred pokés which resist one type more than another and it would be stupid to list all of that.


And dude, once I get my game back, I'd personally like to battle you and see just how badly my team gets ***** when I 1 hit kill anything in my path with Hyperbeam. :p
You know what the negative thing is about Hyper Beam? You kill one thing and then I bring out my sweeper, get a free SD and **** your entire team. It's why Hyper Beam is sparsely used.

Also, go get Shoddy.

Quite a few times Lucario has lived just enough through an Earthquake to respond with Ice-Punch or Dragonpulse, and then end it with Extremespeed. A few times, it's been able to just 1 hit kill with Ice-Punch before the Garchomp can even quake. Again, stop using your computer simulations, pick up the Ds, do the work and calculations for yourself, and then tell me what you think.
Any difference?

I'm not going to get my butt bolted when your Zapdos is trying to pick the stones and/or ice out of it's butt. Again, stop the friggin simluations and actually play the game.
Again, is there any difference? There's outpredicting, but there's also common sense. When I have Zapdos, and there's a Gyarados next to me I just Bolt. I don't care if it switches out - it is, in a way, the safest options. Learn to play.

And yeah, it can eat both Draco-meteors and still use it's Ice-Shard. The 3rd or any other doesn't matter though, since it's already hit with a 2nd Ice-shard, or killed the turn of the 2nd meteor or Earthquake for that matter, by using Avalance.
What about the combo of Fire Blast and Draco Meteor? Fire Blasts a large chunk of its health away, and cleans off the rest with Draco Meteor/another Fire Blast. You're not going to get a second Ice Shard kill it.

True I can't predict your type of chomper, but I can still use my Mamoswine for great effect against them. And you really can't predict what stats my Mamoswine will have either, so you don't really know how you'd try to deal with it. :p
I just have my Bronzong in the back to **** your swine anyway.

I''ve found another type that deals with specifc special sweepers, and with a Sassy nature and spread out evs in special defense, hp, attack and defense, it is STILL capable of living through both a Fireblast and Draco Meteor. Again, the 3rd move wouldn't matter, since it would be dead by then due to either Avalance or Ice-Shard.
I calced, and a max/max sassy Mamoswine has less than 10% chance of surviving two Fire Blasts.
And now what if your opponent Chomp is the more common physical variant? It gets *****. Sure, you can have three Mamoswines, but you can only use one at a time. You can't predict what Chomp I have. Yeah, neither can't I guess which your Mamoswines are, but, do I even have to care?

Ah, but the beauty of it is that there are others that do the job JUST as well. Infact, Ice-Shard and Avalance aren't even really required. Solid defenses with good priority moves, and or a good "hit me and I'll double damage smack you back" move can do the job quite as well.
Garchomp isn't too weak defensively. Granted, it's not a good wall, but can live through a non-ice hit or two.
I kinda like Blastoice for not being vunerable to any of the specific attacks, having Avalance, and being able to use Stab Aqua Jet.
If either Sandstorm or Stealth Rock is up, it's not going to live through two outrages - and that's with max Def and HP. Aqua Jet doesn't even do significant damage.
Dusnkoir is also good, with Willo-wisp, Shadow Punch, Payback, and Pain-Split. It just depends on your situatiion, but there's lots of ways to win.
Dusknoir can also get 2HKOed in Sandstorm or Stealth Rock. (with max/max defenses.) Meanwhile, Shadow Sneak and even boosted Payback don't deal significant damage.

And dude, after it gets ***** by Ice-Shard to the point where it's crippled, it's not going to kill anything else. It would get murked even harder by the several different species of pokemon that move faster than it and punish it. The Ice-Sharders or Avalancers can get the job done alone, and assuming by some black-magic or cheat that it some how survives, it will be at the point where even UU pokemon can switch in and finish the job. The priority and damage-taking-attack-doubling Pokemon all can do quite a good job of punishing Garchomp, some of them even necesiating 3 hit kills. And by then, Garchomp is no more. I believe that THAT is how Countering works. Again, get your butt up off of the computer, go walk around outside, pick the rusty Ds out of your pocket, put a Pokemon game inside of it, and actually PLAY it. You'd be surprised what you can learn by doing so.
Gets ***** by Ice Shard when? ***** because it lost a berry when ****** your poké? Yay. It has done its job. Maybe when you don't have a Mamo anymore I can use it to finish the rest of your team, despite being '*****'.
Also, you're completely ignoring the Yache berry. Ice Shard or unboosted Avalanche don't kill it right away. Also, if I got two hits on you and you're about to finish my Chomp off, what do I do? I just switch out. There goes your plan of beating Garchomp, especially since you have less than half your health left.
Yes, countering works like that but then again, it's not a OHKO so i could just switch out to safety. (Assuming I'm not trapped in Outrage.)
Again, get your brains functioning, start your internet browser, download Shoddy and actually PLAY it. You'd be surprised what you can learn by doing so.

Also, I do play the actual games as well.
Ps. Anything defensive with Hail and Blizzard can also get the job done right. It just takes a little experimenting. There are lots of other ways to do so as well.
Gratz if you manage to get hail off in OU. This isn't UU.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
Wouw, I got another “Wall of Text” attack, ready just for you.

*fires*

First of all, I called them “Wall of Text”, not “Wall of Fire”. I like joking around about the DBZ serious and such, but still, I’m not some Wow-nerd who goes about throwing paper balls at people saying “Fireball! Fireball!” .I maybe immature and like labeling my long as heck lectures as “Wall of Text”, but still, even I have more of a life than that. And dude, who are you talking about being annoying, trying to insult every single thing I’ve said, despite them all being viable ideas and strategies.

Second, despite the wording I used (which I’ll need to make more effective so that it isn’t an issue again), I never once meant that Tyranitar is vulnerable to ice. But again, several different Pokémon sport both Ice and Fire attacks, and it would be stupid to think that none of them have access to both of them, let alone that they wouldn’t come across a Tyranitar at some point in the game. Also, you’re ******** if you think that people ONLY use Special Ice attacks, or Special Fire attacks. The Physical Options are just as good. But still, between Ice-Beam and Flame-Thrower, Ice beam is a better option to hit Tyranitar, assuming that it comes down to that. AND THAT was my point. Again, get your head out of your lame as heck emulators, and play the real game. You might become less smug and overconfident as you seem to be now. Can we drop this part of the conversation though? It was not needed a while ago.

Funny thing about Hyper Beam? With the right stats and specs, a single Porygon-Z is capable of going through ENTIRE teams with just Hyper beam. I kill Blissey in 1 shot, (for example) Garchomp comes in and Sword Dances, and then it eats another Hyper Beam. I’ve also seen it played out where Hypergun (my Porygon-Z) can even resist Earthquake as Garchomp launches it, which means that Garchomp’s only choice of not dying is to switch to something that can resist it, or it finds itself being blasted to the Reverse World.

I don’t need emulators to learn how to play. From doing calculations on stats by hand, to actually experiencing the game, I learn a lot naturally, and keep learning even more from playing instead of just typing in random, frequently biased figures, and hoping the result is skewed in your favor.

I know that Zapdos verses Gyarados is quite commonly in Zapdos’ favor, but Gyarados still has a great chance of winning. Funny thing is that I do know how to play, or I wouldn’t have known from experience how much damage a Stone Edge or Ice Fang can do to it. The “safest” option is for Gyarados to retreat, but again, many people would anticipate that and try to use a grass move or another option against a most likely ground-type defender. No offense to him, but Zook certainly did. One of the “game-winning” options is to take it down at that moment. I do know how to play. You spend so much time on shoddy, I’m not sure if you do.

Again, if I was really scared of a Garchomp’s Fire Blast, I’d simply use Avalanche first, doing more than enough to cripple Garchomp and prime it for the Ice-Shard. And yes, Mamoswine HAS survived multiple Fire Blasts, and another time a Fire Blast and Draco Meteor. You dangerously underestimate good breeding and experience. Again, stop the friggin emulators and play the game.

If we want to talk about having other Pokémon in the wing, then I could easily have Swampert ready for your Bronzong. But then again, I thought right now, everyone felt like harping on a want to be un-counter-able Yachechomp.

I’m pretty sure you calculated wrong, because a Sassy Mamoswine with the correct Evs still has enough bulk and stats to survive Dual Fire Blasts, especially if a basic one can do so as well. Most Mamoswine can **** Garchomp no matter what build it uses. Lots of Pokémon can in general. Try worrying about all of those other threats as well, instead of just harping on me and my love of Mamoswine as one of my best Pokémon. But the reason that Mamoswine is worth a worry is because at least 70% of them have all of the tools, natural bulk, stats, and power, to get the job done against nearly every single Garchomp. The only ones that can live are mainly those who are highly invested in defense, and a defensive non-sweeping Garchomp is borderline worthless. And without the defense, it would be rare and a miracle for Garchomp to survive two ice-moves. It’s not an Uber Dragon. It’s just Over-Used. Some people think that with the berry it deserves to be Uber, but any pro can tell you it doesn’t.

Again, you’d be surprised at the defense that these Pokémon carry, or else you wouldn’t be talking. Not to mention that if you have the right to set up as many Stealth Rocks and Sand Storms as you want, then my team would be allowed to do the same thing. But again, I was under the impression that it was just 1v1 righting, with the one on my side occasionally coming in late. Again, if you feel like throwing up those extra obstacles up, then my side would be allowed as many Spikes, Double Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rocks, Hail, Curses, Attracts, and whatever else could be thrown up. But then again, no one’s countering anyone that way. But even without all of those effects, the huge list of creatures I displayed earlier have the stats and skills to get the job done. Again, stop overestimating your creatures, stop using the emulators, and go play the real game.

Mamoswine ***** by Garchomp? Hardly. Again, if you actually played the game, you’d see that it cripples Garchomp, with or without the berry. With more than half of its health gone, and the only thing saving it from instant kill by any Ice moves (other than Blizzard or a Late-Avalanche Hintaty hint hint) already used up, Garchomp will be shaking in its Poke ball when you decide to use it again. Meanwhile, Mamoswine still up and ready to roll. By the time that you’ve damaged Mamoswine enough that it’s really hurt and in Danger, Garchomp will need hypothermia treatment. The fact that Garchomp would HAVE to run away to stay alive does kind of prove the validity of Mamoswine and the others as counters against it. And if Garchomp did anything other than Outrage, a physical sweeper would be screwed against Mamoswine. And again, all of my calculations and statistics have been with the Yacheberry in play. Trust me, from playing (and the occasional help of Serebii.net), I’ve learned a lot on how to play. Apparently more than you and those simple emulators.

And again, we’ve been talking about direct confrontations between Garchomp and Mamoswine. Garchomp using Sandstorm isn’t a smart move against Mamoswine, since Mamoswine can still use hail, and then have a 100% accurate Blizzard to 1 hit kill Garchomp, berry or not. Don’t involve others in 1v1 fights. Or else anyone could claim that Caterpie could counter Garchomp, using the help of Arceus. That’s an over=exaggeration, I know, but you still hopefully understand my point.

I'm going to start ignoring you if you want to keep harping on this point for no reason, because it's quite obvious you haven't log enough time to understand how an actual battle goes. Have something smarter to say, or just shut up. Honestly. I don't like having to be this rude or mean, and I'd have prefered the conversation stay a positive one. But I'm getting really annoyed by a conversation that's not going anywhere at all. So maybe we can get back to the OU tier? I heard a rummor that Latias will be joining it. Any comments?
 

A_man13

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
3,535
Location
Auburn, Al
Latias is OU. Nothing that we haven't dealt with salamence exists on most latias sets sans status.
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
Da-D-Mon, you need to stop posting. You are in fact hugely wrong about everything. Porygon-Z kills Garchomp with Hyperbeam? How? It needs Specs to be strong enough and Scarf to be fast enough. Mamoswine cannot switch into anything of Garcomps. NOTHING. Not his SD, not is EQ, not his Fire Fang and not his outrage. Mamoswine can Ice Shard and die. That's it.

I can't believe you can STILL be posting. I mean, seriously, do you actually believe any of this crap, because there is alot of it. Have you done calcs? Have you even checked base stats? How is this possible. Seriously. How can you post this much wrong information. I mean, I would have run out of **** to say a long time ago, but you just somehow manage too keep posting ****.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
Pink Reaper, if I didn't test this personally on my Ds and Wii, along with the help of my friends since I can't raise that many Garchomp and Mamoswine myself, and if I didn't do the calculations both by hand and with the help of a couple of websites, I wouldn't be posting at all. But none of my informations has been wrong. Feel free to go check it yourself.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
I know the Porygon-Z part is surprizing to a lot of people, but Hypergun with a Choice Scarf, running Hyperbeam and with max special attack evs does both outrun and kill Garchomp, Yes. My Hypergun is quite the beast (although ghosts and high defense steel and rocks make me mad. ;.; ). But again, play the game and find this out. Don't try to rely on just emulators, since they aren't alreays right. If they were, then Pokemon would probably be played on the computer instead of on DS and the Wii (not to mention all of the past games).

But honestly, no one has anything to say about Latias going down to the Overused Tier from the Ubers? You still feel like just ragging on me and my favorites? A Man13, I honsetly didn't understand what you said; can you please restate it for me? I'm sorry.
 

A_man13

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
3,535
Location
Auburn, Al
I was refering to her brother by mistake. Latias sets are baisicly if you put Salamence with both a recovery move, calm mind, and take back massive attack and acces to fire moves. It's nowhere near a physical threat, but having a great Sp. Attack, Sp. Defence, and speed is a great combination. It's very easy to counter, though. Sure it doesn't have that ice weakness aparant in other dragons do, but trading that for a dark, bug, and ghost weakness is not something anyone is going to be boastful about.
 

PraKirJaq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
206
Location
Richardson, Texas
For your information, a good portion of us use Wi-Fi and obviously the Garchomp in question was not the best subject (31/31 Sp. ded/HP Ivs).

And simulators tend to be fairly accurate to the game. Its easy to test the validity if you know the IVs, Evs, and Nature of the attacker and defender.

Hyperbeam sucks when facing someone who actually knows what they're doing though. Just a little fyi.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
I know that it does, but so many people know that fact and are caught off guard by it that it's still a valuable move.

As for simulators, I know they are quite acccurate and are good for tests, but still, nothing outright beats what the ACTUAL GAME says.

Most Garchomps don't run bulky natures at all. Defensive Garchomp or Special Sweeping Garchomp are just plain inferior to the Physical Sweeping Garchomp.

But do we really need to have a long as heck conversation about this again? This is honestly getting too repeditive... Can't we just talk about the OU tier again? I made one little question, and everyone in the world feels like jumping on me. Dang... it's not safe for Black People to post information online now?

Jk about the racism, but seriously, the Ou tier. Any comments? I just find it weird that a Legendary as awesome as Latias might be going down a rank. And what might that mean for Latios?
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
Cool... I wonder if I can rework a team with Link and Zelda together.... How well do Scizzor and Gardevoir work together? Link being a physical sweeper and Gardevoir being the special? They don't share any weaknesses, and against one wall, they know they have the power of the other to fall back on. I just need to see if anyone else can help them to be able to switch back and forth to eachother.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
Well, atleast Link can get the job done. But then again, Zelda (if need be) can still Shadowball a Latias... it's not much, but it's something...
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
Snap Dragon, that's an awesome set. You made that? You're really smart. I wonder if I can get my full team up and see what ya think of it, although I'm sure people will flame me for having 4 physical sweepers and 2 special sweepers... I need to try to work some of my Baton-Passers and possibly a special-wall into my team. Would you mind if I came to you for advice, Umbreon?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
my range of knowledge only spans to cover the game mechanics and ~ 60 pokemon, give or take. almost entirely OU and a few ubers/BL.

well, if we had BL anyway.
 

WouW

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
1,486
Location
Oudenbosch, The Netherlands
Wouw, I got another “Wall of Text” attack, ready just for you.

*fires*

First of all, I called them “Wall of Text”, not “Wall of Fire”. I like joking around about the DBZ serious and such, but still, I’m not some Wow-nerd who goes about throwing paper balls at people saying “Fireball! Fireball!” .I maybe immature and like labeling my long as heck lectures as “Wall of Text”, but still, even I have more of a life than that. And dude, who are you talking about being annoying, trying to insult every single thing I’ve said, despite them all being viable ideas and strategies.
The *fires* got me confused.

Second, despite the wording I used (which I’ll need to make more effective so that it isn’t an issue again), I never once meant that Tyranitar is vulnerable to ice.
You did - it was wrong - therefore you should remove it.
But again, several different Pokémon sport both Ice and Fire attacks,
Like?
and it would be stupid to think that none of them have access to both of them, let alone that they wouldn’t come across a Tyranitar at some point in the game.
Well what Poké of yours has the utter fail combo of Fire + Ice?
Also, you’re ******** if you think that people ONLY use Special Ice attacks, or Special Fire attacks. The Physical Options are just as good.
I don't give a ball about Special Fire. But Ice Beam is way more common than Ice Punch, and stronger as well.
But still, between Ice-Beam and Flame-Thrower, Ice beam is a better option to hit Tyranitar, assuming that it comes down to that. AND THAT was my point.
You'd be pretty stupid when it comes down to that.
Again, get your head out of your lame as heck emulators, and play the real game. You might become less smug and overconfident as you seem to be now. Can we drop this part of the conversation though? It was not needed a while ago.
Again, go play Shoddy. It's not an emulator. And aren't you the one that keeps whining about the fact that Ice is more effective (while still little) against Tyranitar?

Funny thing about Hyper Beam? With the right stats and specs, a single Porygon-Z is capable of going through ENTIRE teams with just Hyper beam. I kill Blissey in 1 shot, (for example) Garchomp comes in and Sword Dances, and then it eats another Hyper Beam.
No.
I’ve also seen it played out where Hypergun (my Porygon-Z) can even resist Earthquake as Garchomp launches it, which means that Garchomp’s only choice of not dying is to switch to something that can resist it, or it finds itself being blasted to the Reverse World.
It's called Outrage. Also, your opponent's Garchomp sucks.

I don’t need emulators to learn how to play. From doing calculations on stats by hand, to actually experiencing the game, I learn a lot naturally, and keep learning even more from playing instead of just typing in random, frequently biased figures, and hoping the result is skewed in your favor.
Go get shoddy. It is not an emulator. Again, your opponent's Garchomp sucks and you're not learning from it.

I know that Zapdos verses Gyarados is quite commonly in Zapdos’ favor, but Gyarados still has a great chance of winning. Funny thing is that I do know how to play, or I wouldn’t have known from experience how much damage a Stone Edge or Ice Fang can do to it. The “safest” option is for Gyarados to retreat, but again, many people would anticipate that and try to use a grass move or another option against a most likely ground-type defender. No offense to him, but Zook certainly did. One of the “game-winning” options is to take it down at that moment. I do know how to play. You spend so much time on shoddy, I’m not sure if you do.
Well, I for example don't do that. You spend so much time glaring at your Gyarados that you can't see reality anymore. Not everyone is like Zook. (no offense Zook)

Again, if I was really scared of a Garchomp’s Fire Blast, I’d simply use Avalanche first, doing more than enough to cripple Garchomp and prime it for the Ice-Shard. And yes, Mamoswine HAS survived multiple Fire Blasts, and another time a Fire Blast and Draco Meteor. You dangerously underestimate good breeding and experience. Again, stop the friggin emulators and play the game.
Your opponent's Garchomp sucks. Go get Shoddy, there you can see how good Garchomps are.

If we want to talk about having other Pokémon in the wing, then I could easily have Swampert ready for your Bronzong. But then again, I thought right now, everyone felt like harping on a want to be un-counter-able Yachechomp.
You can't switch in on Chomps other than you fail enemy's.

I’m pretty sure you calculated wrong, because a Sassy Mamoswine with the correct Evs still has enough bulk and stats to survive Dual Fire Blasts, especially if a basic one can do so as well. Most Mamoswine can **** Garchomp no matter what build it uses. Lots of Pokémon can in general. Try worrying about all of those other threats as well, instead of just harping on me and my love of Mamoswine as one of my best Pokémon. But the reason that Mamoswine is worth a worry is because at least 70% of them have all of the tools, natural bulk, stats, and power, to get the job done against nearly every single Garchomp. The only ones that can live are mainly those who are highly invested in defense, and a defensive non-sweeping Garchomp is borderline worthless. And without the defense, it would be rare and a miracle for Garchomp to survive two ice-moves. It’s not an Uber Dragon. It’s just Over-Used. Some people think that with the berry it deserves to be Uber, but any pro can tell you it doesn’t.
Go get Shoddy. Go play with real Garchomps. Your opponent's Chomp just sucks. I used damage calcs with perfect Mamoswine and Garchomp. It just works.

Again, you’d be surprised at the defense that these Pokémon carry, or else you wouldn’t be talking. Not to mention that if you have the right to set up as many Stealth Rocks and Sand Storms as you want, then my team would be allowed to do the same thing. But again, I was under the impression that it was just 1v1 righting, with the one on my side occasionally coming in late. Again, if you feel like throwing up those extra obstacles up, then my side would be allowed as many Spikes, Double Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rocks, Hail, Curses, Attracts, and whatever else could be thrown up. But then again, no one’s countering anyone that way. But even without all of those effects, the huge list of creatures I displayed earlier have the stats and skills to get the job done. Again, stop overestimating your creatures, stop using the emulators, and go play the real game.
About those obstacles: 95% of the time you see those in a battle. And no, they don't have the stats and skills to do that. Your opponent has a Garchomp beyond failure.
Again, stop underestimating Garchomp, stop using fail chomp examples, and go play Shoddy.

Mamoswine ***** by Garchomp? Hardly. Again, if you actually played the game, you’d see that it cripples Garchomp, with or without the berry. With more than half of its health gone, and the only thing saving it from instant kill by any Ice moves (other than Blizzard or a Late-Avalanche Hintaty hint hint) already used up, Garchomp will be shaking in its Poke ball when you decide to use it again. Meanwhile, Mamoswine still up and ready to roll. By the time that you’ve damaged Mamoswine enough that it’s really hurt and in Danger, Garchomp will need hypothermia treatment. The fact that Garchomp would HAVE to run away to stay alive does kind of prove the validity of Mamoswine and the others as counters against it. And if Garchomp did anything other than Outrage, a physical sweeper would be screwed against Mamoswine. And again, all of my calculations and statistics have been with the Yacheberry in play. Trust me, from playing (and the occasional help of Serebii.net), I’ve learned a lot on how to play. Apparently more than you and those simple emulators.
What you're posting here is utter bullcrap.


And again, we’ve been talking about direct confrontations between Garchomp and Mamoswine. Garchomp using Sandstorm isn’t a smart move against Mamoswine, since Mamoswine can still use hail, and then have a 100% accurate Blizzard to 1 hit kill Garchomp, berry or not. Don’t involve others in 1v1 fights. Or else anyone could claim that Caterpie could counter Garchomp, using the help of Arceus. That’s an over=exaggeration, I know, but you still hopefully understand my point.
No, we've been talking about Mamoswine countering Garchomp. That is, Mamoswine switches in into Garchomp. Garchomp uses Sandstorm from Hippowdon/Tyranitar. If Mamoswine has hail as a move, it's a waste of a moveslot. Go get Shoddy and play competitively.


I'm going to start ignoring you if you want to keep harping on this point for no reason, because it's quite obvious you haven't log enough time to understand how an actual battle goes.
I play at Shoddy and therefore, the highest competitive level of Pokémon D/P. You don't.
Have something smarter to say, or just shut up. Honestly. I don't like having to be this rude or mean, and I'd have prefered the conversation stay a positive one. But I'm getting really annoyed by a conversation that's not going anywhere at all. So maybe we can get back to the OU tier? I heard a rummor that Latias will be joining it. Any comments?
Be correct on your facts, or just shut up.
And Latias is already in the new OU list for quite some time.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
Actually, I'm going to delete this comment. You can go ahead and say what you want. That's fine. It's mainly just differences in opinions and statistics. If you're still all fired up about everything I've said, I will get out my calculations, and as two respectable compeditive players, we can compare notes. But I'm spending the day with my family today, so I'll have to get back to this conversation later. Maybe we can continue our discussions on this then. I'll try to get all of my stats that I've written so far, and we can share our information. But it will have to come later.

But despite the differences in our oppinions, and apparently in our calculations, there's no reason for either of us to start being rude to eachother and flame eachother. What once started as simple strategic discussion about the OU list has now ended up a flame thread. And I am truly sorry for being immature enough to act this way. I would like to ask if you can forgive me for stooping so low. Maybe if we hadn't met in the middle of an arguement, things wouldn't be quite like this. I still don't need to act this bad, over just a game. I'm sorry to anyone else I've insulted, I'm sorry for personally attacking you, Wouw, and I'm sorry for flaming your thread, Niiro. Please forgive me. For someone who has such high goals for myself, I look pretty stupid right now, with the way I've been acting.

Again, just so that two respectable compeditive players can compare notes, I will comeback with my statistics later for us to share and compare. But I'm spending today with my family. But if I try my best to stay respectable, can we both not do anymore insults or "shut ups" or anything like that? Everyone has something valid to say, and what works for one person might work differently for another. But it's no reason for anyone to act like this. Again, I'm sorry for how I've been behaving.

And Umbreon, Sir? I'd still like to see what you thought of my team later. I know it would have lots of holes in it, so I still would enjoy the advice.
 

WouW

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
1,486
Location
Oudenbosch, The Netherlands
Wow. All you've had to say this time is that you don't beleve what I've tested in the actual game and calculated, and that you think your little simulations are more valuable than the actual game itself.
And I calc as well? Wait, didn't other people post as well that YOU are wrong and YOU should stop posting? Seriously, I do my calcs as well. I don't tell facts if they're not truth.
The truth is placed infront of you neatly to see, and yet you still feel like doubting it because of whatever preconcieved notions you have.
Truth? Truth is that your calcs are wrong. That is truth. Show me numbers - how much attack Garchomp has, show how much defense Mamoswine has. Show calcs with Fire Blast on maximized SpD Mamoswine. It does 2HKO. Stop lying to me. Please.
You're completely pathetic, and you honestly don't even deserve a reply anymore.
You're even more pathetic.
You're just trying to deny a proven point that is being beat down and still stands overtime.
Proven? Still stands? Shut up please. I've not seen any calcs, nor have I seen anyone agree with you. Stop posting.
You really should shut up now. You can't deny the truth. If you still feel like harping on me, go ahead. You're just trying to deny the truth.I'll get back to you later. I don't feel like wasting too much more time on this.
No. you're denying the truth.
252SpA Modest Garchomp using Fire Blast on 252/252 Sassy Mamoswine: 48.11% - 57.08%. That means that Garchomp has over 90% chance of 2HKOing. Same Mamoswine, with 4 Attack EV points, only does 32.40% - 38.55% to Yachechomp, eliminating the berry along the way. But then Mamoswine is killed - and Garchomp could still run rampant all day. THIS is truth. Max/max physical defense Mamoswine gets 2HKOed by Garchomp in Stealth Rock and still can't beat him. THIS is truth. Show me your calcs. Or else just stop 'proving' me wrong.

PS: I've used Shoddy several times, and it still doesn't beat out the joy of the actual game. Once I get a copy of Platinum, it will probably just lay wasted on my desktop. Not that it's not bad. I just prefer the real thing. Realistic confrontations. Not everything is that computer simulated.
Do I look like I freaking CARE that you just LIKE D/P more than Shoddy? No. Competitive =/= the fun version.
 

Niiro

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
914
Location
...
Wow. All you've had to say this time is that you don't beleve what I've tested in the actual game and calculated, and that you think your little simulations are more valuable than the actual game itself.
YOU SOUND JUST LIKE MOW.
caps lock ftw
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
I'll respond to the comment you made before the last one as soon as I can, Wouw. But I'd like a little input, since you seem to dislike most of the enemys that I face. Again, I'd like to ask that if I can do my best to not sound like an idiot, that we both act as respectfully to eachother as we can?

The 3 types of Garchomp that seem to make him overall worth movement to the Uber-Tier seem to be Physical Sweepers, Special Sweepers, and Mixed Sweepers. Am I to assume this, since the main item they use is the Yacheberry, which stops their biggest weakness but also keeps them from using Choice-Sets, right?

The Physical Sweeper seems to most likely have a nature of either Adamant or Jolly, with maximum evs in attack and speed, with the remainder going into hp, right? Also, it's attacks would be SwordDance-Earthquake-Outrage-Firefang, right?

The Special Sweeper seems to most likely have a nature of either Timid or Modest, with maximum evs in special attack and speed, with the remainder, again, going into hp, right? But besides DracoMeteor/DragonPulse and Fireblast/FlameThrower, I honestly can't think of any worthwhile special attacks that a Special Sweeping Garchomp would use. Can you tell me any?

And the Mixed Sweeper is the hardest for me to plan for, only because there are many different definitions of the Mixed Sweeper variant of Garchomp. They all have max speed, I'm sure, but other than that, the offenses can change a lot. I'm guessing either Max Special Attack with Sword Dance and Earthquake to make up for the drop in attack power, or a balance of attack and special attack utalizing Earthquake-Outrage-DracoMeteor-Fireblast. But this one is up to a lot of variability. Can you tell me what your definition of the Mixed Sweeper Garchomp is? This is the only one that I don't think I've been able to accuarely counter, only because I haven't fully identified which one it is. Natures,, stats, and move-lists for this type seem to elude me the most.

Once you can get me these, I'll try to find the rest of my calculations, and again, we can compare notes. I'm sorry for how I've acted in the past, and again, I'd like to ask that if I can shape up my act, thiat this conversation can stay a tactical one between two compeditive players, as well as anyone else who wants any input?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Don't do personal attacks guys. We are all "pathetic" - we're reading pokemon statistics on the internet. Calm down.

I think it's funny to ban random people outside of the pokecenter. I haven't banned anyone here yet and I'm not starting now.

PM me your team and I'll go over it as best I can.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
Thank you Umbreon. I feel better now. If I can only get past my (I hate all infinites despite being able to avoid those types of situation) scrubb attitude, I might one day realise my dream of being able to fight on the same battleground as Azen or M2K. It's a far off dream, but one I still wish to achieve.

And Wouw, again, I'm sorry for how I've acted. And if you could give me just those few statistics, I'll see if I can come back to you with my research. Please ignore me if I start being rude.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Dallas GA
I wish that he'd have answer my question about the stats and skills of the Special and Mixed Chomps while he was answering this. ;.; Admitably, the Yachechomp using Dual Fireblasts is the closest thing to getting a 2 hit kill, although with enough special evs in defense, Mamoswine can still barely survive. But I'd need to know the exact build that the Yachechomp Special and Mixed Sweepers are running, so I can know what kinda stats I should be comparing. I

'm tempted to be cheap and start handing the Ice Users Occa Berries. Since they have weaknesses to fire anyway, it would help them survive a fire hit hit to be able to use Avalance, or get the double Ice-Shards accross. Since most have enough bulk to survive Earthquakes, Outrage, DracoMeteors, and Dragonpulse into DracoMeteor, the Fire-Fang or Fireblast moves seem to be the only real issue threatening them. But there is a chance that it isn't needed, depending on the stats that Yachechomp uses. It might still be a 3 hit Ko, which by that time means Garchomp no longer exists. Before I try to present my facts, I still need to know what I'm up against...

And most of the time, I use a fomula I found at Smogom University, and do my calculations by hand. I also enjoy checking these by the damages, stats, and bonuses that are in effect when I do a battle on my DS Game.
 
Top Bottom