wow @ people just using the argument of having a mk by his name. Ally using MK didn't help him win ****, Ksizl used Lucario to beat Judge, and Shadow did SIGNIFICANTLY better vs me with Wario than MK (3 stock).
mks overrated. I'm good with him, and he's popular. Maybe if the other MKs actually posed some threat to me I might think differently but all I see him as is a super popular character. I think Jiggs is the best in Melee cuz her top metagame wins everything (by not 1 but 2 people), but since she's not POPULAR then no one believes me. That's all smashboards cares about. Popularity. **** is stupid.
Dude, this has nothing to do with popular. He is the best in the darn game and people wanna win money. Of course people are gonna be using Meta Knight alot. You should freaking know this. You play to win and gay people out if you have to to win right? So please dude, don't try to slick your way out of this. I dare you t denie this. You know what it means to play competitive. So you saying this is straight stupid.
Allys meta is not that good to get him the placings like his snake does. And the other metas are not as good as you. Same time they might not even know the match ups they lost too. Just like how all meta players doin't know how to fight diddy. Judge lost to Reflex at SNES. Nearly got three stocked a game. Now even reflex himself knows Meta can beast on PT
I mean dude, look at all these big tourny results. Top ten is stacked with meta alot. And in your case, you cant handle/stand Diddy and Jiggs. Just admit it already and stop trying to save your character.
I seriously think up to this point you are being bias about meta cause you know the truth and don't want him banned. To a point you have ro learn another character. And guess what, It wont be that easy to win as much money as if you was meta. You will have to work harder now. And you are pulling everything out your *** to do so.
Also, just incase you dont know all this about your character, I did some homework last night on meta playing on the edge:
Upair-
frame breakdown:
1 startup
2-3 hitbox out
4-13 aerial cooldown
frame summary:
Hits on: 2
IASA frame: 14
Aerial cooldown: 10
Landing lag: 12
Autocancels on: 21
Shield hitlag differential: 0
Shield stun: 2
Optimal shield advantage: -10
Optimal shield drop advantage: -3
This is of course a problem for everyone when he is on his crap on the stage. And lots of characters dont have an option to dealing with this.
Meta has to let go of the ledge then hop to an uair.
6+2= 8 Frames the move comes out. when he lets go, he gets 21 frames of invis. ( I treat every character to jump 6 frames until I can get full info on how long it takes for specific characters to do it)
21-8=13 frames he can't be touched while he does the attack.
Now lets say meta was to try and grab the ledge after one upair. When you let go of the ledge, you can not grab it for 30 frames. So when he lets go, jumps and does the move, the IASA frames kick in at frame 14.
30-14= 16 frames he has to do something else. So meta can not grab the ledge after one up air. Move ends too soon and has 16 frames to wait. For this meta would just do another uair
16-14= 2 frames he can't touch the ledge. By this time, it is hard to even abuse this while he is off stage. You would have to be lucky enough to have a move dished out already to hit this fool out of it.
When you let go, you are invis for 21 frames.
30-21= 19 frames one is able to get hit before being able to grab the ledge.
Now the aerial cool down of the move. Its 10 frames. and the move ends at 14 frames (IASA)
14-10= 4 frames he is a sitting duck before he can do anything. So Moves that hit in 4 frames or less can abuse this. (good to know if you power shield his moves and he is over you, or near him on stage while he does this.)
Now that we got all that info, lets put it into play here:
To do the attack off the ledge drop with a jump: 8 frames Move is out for 10 frames But has 4 frames that he can't do anything. So total duration of the move is 14. Invis off the ledge is 21 frames. 21-14= 7 frames of invis. and able to do something else. And would meta would do is another upair. Now around this time, meta can't be touched for 7 frames. The move is out for ten frames. 10-7= 3 frames the move is still out but him not being invinsible anymore. Now you have 3 frames to hit meta before he can do anything.
Keep in mind, you can't grab the ledge for 30 frames after a ledge drop. So now we have to add Upair x2 - 30 frames you cant touch the ledge
14+14=28
30-28=2
This dude has a 2 frame wait before grabbing the ledge. And if you know about Peachs jab, that is not a long wait. Meta can not be punished inbetween upairs cause he still have invis frames after doing the first one. If you wanna hit this fool, you have to do a move within 2 frames or less Or have an attack dish out ready to hit him within those 2 frames.
Now for 2 Uairs it would be 28 frames in total. (can't touch him out the first one anyway) and 21 invis frames once you let go. And I already went through that. A few paragraphs above.
So from what it looks like, trying to punish meta for this (frame perfect winse here) It's seriously hard to do so. You are giving 2 frames to do so. Thats not a good amout of time for us. Not I have not taken into account about meta doing one up air, taking the time to jump yet again and do another one. So we would have about a few more frames? Still freaking hard as hell, even if not frame perfect to hit this fool.
Now shielding his Uair if he puts up over the stage a lil if near the ledge:
7+2= 9 frames it takes to dish out a move.
7= frames to drop the shield
2= Shield stun from meta.
Now after the move, meta is a sitting duck for 4 frames.
9-4= 5 frames you have to punish this fool out of shield. His upair all above him to begin with. it takes nine frames to dish out a move from shield if you get hit with upair so:
9-6= frames we have to abuse. And after 2 upairs, meta has 2 frames to grab the ledge. It's really hard to do this. Power shielding may help out here. Doing that to some ground attacks that can somehow reach meta and hit him at the anngle that he is at. Stuff is too hard anyway. And he does not have to use Uair all the time nether. He can go with his other air attacks.
NAIR
frame breakdown:
1-2 startup
3-4 strong hitbox out
5-25 weak hitbox out
26-31 aerial cooldown
frame summary:
Hits on frame: 3
IASA frame: 32
Aerial cooldown: 6
Landing lag: 15
Autocancels on: 25
Shield hitlag differential strong hit: 0
Shield hitlag differential weak hit: -1
Shield stun strong hit: 4
Shield stun weak hit: 1
Optimal shield advantage strong hit: -11
Optimal shield drop advantage strong hit: -4
Optimal shield advantage weak hit: -15
Optimal shield advantage weak hit: -8
*Optimal shield advantage weak hit autocanceled: -2
*Optimal shield shield drop advantage weak hit autocanceled: +5
* Note that doing this is unrealistic because of how the nair works. It would be very difficult to hit a shield with the weak hitbox and then immediately land into the ac point. You would most all the time be hitting the top area of the shield and then falling until you land.
FAIR
frame breakdown:
1-5 startup
6-7 hitbox out
8-9
10-11 hitbox out
12
13-14 hitbox out
15-39 aerial cooldown
frame summary:
1st hit on: 6
2nd hit on: 10
3rd hit on: 13
IASA frame: 40
Aerial cooldown: 25
Landing lag: 15
Autocancels on: 21
Shield hitlag differential: 0
Shield stun: 1
Optimal shield advantage: -8
Optimal shield drop advantage: -1
BAIR
frame breakdown:
1-6 startup
7-8 hitbox out
9-12
13-14 hitbox out
15-19
20-21 hitbox out
22-45 aerial cooldown
frame summary:
1st hit on: 7
2nd hit on: 13
3rd hit on: 20
IASA frame: 46
Aerial cooldown: 24
Landing lag: 12
Autocancel on: 23
Shield hitlag differential: 0
Shield stun: 1
Optimal shield advantage: -3
Optimal shield drop advantage: +4
DAIR
frame breakdown:
1-3 startup
4-5 hitbox out
6-25 aerial cooldown
frame summary:
hits on frame: 4
IASA frame: 26
Aerial cooldown: 20
Landing lag: 15
Autocancels on: 24
Shield hitlag differential: 0
Shield stun: 2
Optimal shield advantage: -13
Optimal shield drop advantage: -6
Shield advantage without landing: -18
Shield drop advantage without landing: -11
GROUNDED SHUTTLE LOOP
frame breakdown:
1-7 startup
5-8 invincibility frames
8-13 strong hitbox out
14-21
22-31 weak hitbox out
frame summary:
Hits on frame: 8
IASA frame: 32
AERIAL SHUTTLE LOOP
frame breakdown:
1-7 startup
8-14 strong hitbox out
15-36 weak hitbox out
frame summary:
hits on frame: 8
IASA frame: 38
Lets see how you gonna make an excuse for this.
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