NU to OU: The Next Chapter

[mood4food77]

sharpedo?

sharpedo 2HKOs all of them

the only one that can set up rocks against sharpedo is sableye

 

[CRASHiC]

Metagross is still the best lead guys. Electrode just makes him better.

 

[Wave⁂]

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. What I meant is create a pokemon whose prescence in the metagame would aid Migmagius and Dusknoir, while being able to counter/revenge kill/check/threaten/whatever TTar, Rotom, Gengar, Glalie, and Weavile, and I forgot Sharpedo as well.

I like the idea of a special Mold Breaker Pokemon. That would also be a mighty blow to the Lilli/Tran synergy as well, and not gonna lie, I hate Heatran. Houndoom is the most likely candiadate. Given Earth Power and Mold Breaker, he could tear through a great deal of Pokemon, and have great synergy with Dusknoir. Of course, the Sharpedo problem would still exist, and since Dusknoir hates Pursuit users so much, having a counter isn't going to do much good if he can't get past Pursuit.

Whiscash is another contender for the spot. Using earthquake to hit Gengar and Weavile, and since he isn't weak to Sharpedo, as well as being immune to Rotom's thunderbolts, Whiscash could make a great mold breaker. Mold Breaker would give Whiscash something to separate it from the Water/Ground crowd. The only issue here is making a Pokemon a special Mold Break abuser when it has Dragon Dance.

I like Whiscash. I'd like to see him not be a carbon copy of Gyarados, though; leave his Speed as is, and give him better defenses and a physical Ice-type attack that isn't Avalanche or Ice Fang. Carves him a niche similar to Dragonite.

 

[CRASHiC]

Thanks for taking are diverging topic out of the inappropriate thread.

I know we are a LONG way away from implementing new changes, but while we wait, let's still have a bit of fun. I've selected some of the most interesting pokemon with some of the least deserving stats and movepools in the game, and I'd like to see what you guys think could be done with them:

 

[Wave⁂]

Would it be too much to ask to limit ourselves to three Pokémon for the next batch?

Banette: No. We just did Sableye.
Girafarig: Doomed to be yet another Pokémon that learns 20 nifty support moves that no one actually uses
Mantine: Completely outclassed by Gyarados or Blissey.

Armaldo: You could try Rock Polish, but we already have Rampardos and Marowak doing that. You could try Rapid Spin, but Glalie outclasses it. Perhaps Spikes? Probably outclassed by Skarmory. Find this guy a niche, and I'll probably love it, since Armaldo is so awesome.

Swalot: I wonder if we could make a Salamence-esque sweeper that relies on neutral hits if we gave it Poison Scrappy. Relatively few Pokémon resist Poison.

 

[CRASHiC]

lol, Wave taking these proposals as if I'm making serious proposals for changes.
Banette isn't relatable to Sabeyle. His strength and weaknesses are far different.
Girafairig, without serious revisions, sure, but that's the whole point of this project. His entire body scream duel type, so there would be the first place to start looking.
Mantine same thing. Water and Flying is an incredibly interesting typing that shouldn't be discarded so easily. Gdose is no special attacker, this is what Mantine can fill, and Flying/Water special attacker. That's an incredibly obvious route to go with him.

 

[mood4food77]

mantine is supposed to be the special skarmory
it fails because water/flying isn't a great specially defensive typing

why does no one like my granbull idea...

 

[CRASHiC]

What Granbull idea?

 

[mood4food77]

it was 2 pages back

[collapse=New Poke Idea]
looking at granbull and his stats, you can clearly see he's just an inferior ursaring, with the same HP and Def with 10 lower in both attack and speed, and then 15 lower SpA and SpD. really, the only reason to use granbull over ursaring is the fact he has intimidate, which makes granbull more physically bulky than ursaring, hell even the move sets are close to the same

so what to do to make him usable

the easy fix would be to give him a usable speed stat, but that basically makes him an inferior staraptor (seriously....)
so what to do to this guy:

i say actually change his speed so it's higher, but this clearly is not enough as he would still be outclassed by staraptor (staraptor having double stab and u-turn really makes a huge difference)
one thing he does have going for him are secondary moves that force switches like charm, attract, toxic, captivate, etc

one other thing he has is smelling salt, a cool attack that deals double damage to t-waved poke but cures them of paralysis and he also learns t-wave (the strongest pokemon capable of learning this), this could be a cool double strategy with increased speed and stuff

i dunno, i'm just throwing ideas out there to help with him, he's a tough cookie to crack as he's completely outclassd

here's a neat idea (at least on paper)
give him static over quick feet, increase his speed to 105, decrease his special attack to 30
this could really abuse smelling sault with this moveset

smelling sault
close combat
crunch
thunder wave

with static and t-wave, you're going to force switches, you could change his type to normal/dark just to make crunch a more viable option (and it kinda works aesthetically)
with the possibility of having 3 base 120 moves at his disposal and having great coverage, it could work pretty well[/collapse]

 

[CRASHiC]

Because Static would be the most nonsenical change in the history of NU to OU, or SmashCAP for that matter.

 

[mood4food77]

it's more of a paralysis abuser though, and it'll abuse it more-so than other pokes with smelling salt

smelling salt will have a BP of 180 if the opposing poke is paralyzed, so giving granbull every chance it can to paralyze the opponent is something pretty good, it has the bulk to do so also

i also changed it's' speed to 105 so it can be a sweeper

 

[Wave⁂]

lol, Wave taking these proposals as if I'm making serious proposals for changes.

When did that happen?

Girafairig, without serious revisions, sure, but that's the whole point of this project. His entire body scream duel type, so there would be the first place to start looking.

So you say you can make Girafarig overused? How? Psychic / Normal is probably the worst offensive typing possible. Defensively, it's ***** by Scizor and Tyranitar. I'd like to see you do something that isn't just throwing Dual Screens, Assist, Safeguard, and other trivial support moves at it.

Mantine same thing. Water and Flying is an incredibly interesting typing that shouldn't be discarded so easily. Gdose is no special attacker, this is what Mantine can fill, and Flying/Water special attacker. That's an incredibly obvious route to go with him.

Timid LO Starmie's Thunderbolt vs. +1 4 / 0 Mantine: 82.7% - 98.9%
vs. +1 252 / 0 Mantine: 67.1% - 80.2%
Modest 252 Air Slash vs. 0 / 4 Starmie: 63.6% - 75.1%
ScarfTran's HP Electric vs. 252 / 0 Mantine: 46.7% - 55.1%

Looks like Calm Mind Mantine could work pretty well. Calm Mind / Surf / Air Slash / Roost? Resisted only by Empoleon and Lanturn, I think.

 

[CRASHiC]

Normalize could probably achieve this better than Static, as Normalize will allow you to run Thunder Wave on Ground Pokemon and not rely on luck. Because of Thunder Wave, speed is irrelevant.
While this does mean its walled by ghost types, give it Scrappy and make ghost types question the switch in. Scrappy also allows it to run a better role than Status spreader.

I understand taht you guys want to limit the new Pokemon we buff in the next round, and at this point with such a large number of pokemon, I'm fine with that. However, for those pokemon who we failed to properly buff, I think revisions should not be limited nor should they effect the number of changes we make in the next round.
Furthermore, I feel there should be a midway stage in this process just for that.
Amphy with Quick Feet and Trick feels much better, almost OU viable running a Tail Glow or Mixed set. However, its completely walled by Rotom and its movepool provides it no answer. Something needs to be done about this. We should give it Shadow Ball to deal with troublesome ghost types.

 

[Wave⁂]

More changes means more testing needed on the server. More testing on the server needed means less accurate usage (teams of 4 NU to OU and 2 SmashCAPs). Less accurate usage means less accurate testing (X is completely walled by Y, but no one uses Y because they're busy testing Z).

 

[CRASHiC]

Yes, we've already seen that as no one is running Sharpedo, when Sharpedo destroys Lili/Tran. Giving enough time and enough people though and we'll get a pretty accurate picture. Right now we're all rushing to use as many as possible, and in the future the metagame will stagnate back to regular OU as it did before, except with several new Pokes taking their firm place in OU. Honestly, the problem you are mentioning isn't just a problem with us making changes, its a problem to a small degree that exist in the pokemon metagame.

However, making alterations to already introduced changes is a much more predictable process. We know giving Shadow Ball to Amphy will provide it with a way to heat Rotom. We can make stat changes to Marowak that we know will be needed, and we can spend all the time we need calculating exactly what is needed to be done.

Oh, and I can't refuse a challenge. In a weeks time I'll come up with a brand new niche for Girafirig. Don't care weather we use it, I just love it when people challenge me.

 

[Wave⁂]

Yes, we've already seen that as no one is running Sharpedo, when Sharpedo destroys Lili/Tran. Giving enough time and enough people though and we'll get a pretty accurate picture. Right now we're all rushing to use as many as possible, and in the future the metagame will stagnate back to regular OU as it did before, except with several new Pokes taking their firm place in OU. Honestly, the problem you are mentioning isn't just a problem with us making changes, its a problem to a small degree that exist in the pokemon metagame.

Just because it's not this thread's fault that stuff is lopsided doesn't mean we should continue barreling ahead. At least put the next batch up to a vote.

However, making alterations to already introduced changes is a much more predictable process. We know giving Shadow Ball to Amphy will provide it with a way to heat Rotom. We can make stat changes to Marowak that we know will be needed, and we can spend all the time we need calculating exactly what is needed to be done.

Small changes are fine with me, especially if it's something like Marowak that's already being tested.

Oh, and I can't refuse a challenge. In a weeks time I'll come up with a brand new niche for Girafirig. Don't care weather we use it, I just love it when people challenge me.

I honestly hope you can come up with something cool. Palindromemon is a cool guy.

Baton Pass sucks so don't do that. You could try out your Gravity idea.

 

[CRASHiC]

If you skill swap with Castform, you become Bulbasaur.

 

[mood4food77]

does aerodactyl count as NU in our metagame?

i mean, since electrode does aero's job faster, set up SR, taunt, and die

if it is, could we give it brave bird and head smash, the only two moves it would need to become a real offensive threat in OU?

 

[CRASHiC]

We'll deal with fallen OU pokes once we feel comfortable with buffing other pokes.

So I took Ulti's anti-hax pokemon and I came up with a few options, which of these would you guys like:

Spirtomb
Ghost/Ground
Insomnia/Sticky Hold
HP 100
Benefits:
Bulky, can take hits easily.
Immune to Spore/Trick, Thunderwave, and Dynamic Punch.
Slower than Machamp so it isn't killed by Payback

Negatives:
Still vunerable to Iron Head
No way to recover
Weak to Sharpedo

Whiscash
Insomnia/Own Tempo
Attack: 108 Speed: 102

Benefits:
Imune to Thunderwave, Spore/Confusion
Faster than all Serene Grace users.

Weaknesses:
Not immune to Dynamicpunch
Can't stop Spore and Dynamic Punch at the same time.

Girafarig
Lighting/Psychic
Inner Focus/Motor Drive
HP: 70
Attack: 110
Defense: 70
Sp.Atk: 110
Sp.Def: 80
Speed: 105

Benefits:
Immune to thunderwave/flinch
STAB is able to threaten every single HAX abuser
Faster than every HAX abuser

Negatives:
Is not immune to Spore or Trick for added useage.

 

[rockem7]

I think Tery brought this up before, but we should totally buff Quagsire. With just a little bit of help, be can become an effective wall and at the same time he has good enough attack to be viable in OU.

 

[CRASHiC]

I'm sure everyone wants that lovable blob buffed lol.

 

[Fuelbi]

Question and suggestion

How bout buff Miltank up to OU?

 

[Wrath`]

Nu to OU, last time I checked, Spiritomb was UU. Or are we stepping up to UU now?

I am liking the Wishcash.

 

[CRASHiC]

Question and suggestion

How bout buff Miltank up to OU?

Sure we could cover that, but simply saying We Should Buff This Pokemon isn't really enough. You should stress what this pokemon could provide to the metagame after being buffed.

Nu to OU, last time I checked, Spiritomb was UU. Or are we stepping up to UU now?

I am liking the Wishcash.

Since I made the first NU to OU thread, the title NU to OU has always been just a title. It doesn't limit pokemon who are UU or BL, it is any pokemon who needs a buff to be viable in OU.
I must say though, if I were to pick one out of those three I listed, it would not be Spirtomb, I don't want to change his type, I want to buff him later on with his Dark/Ghost type kept intact.

 

[Fuelbi]

Sure we could cover that, but simply saying We Should Buff This Pokemon isn't really enough. You should stress what this pokemon could provide to the metagame after being buffed.

Ah get it


...Miltank could be a major stall machine if you do? Sorry, I ain't good at any of this ****

 

[CRASHiC]

lol, start by looking at its STATs, movepool, and ability, and find something unique in it. Milktank is actually probably really easy, given her access to Scrappy.

 

[UltiMario]

BTW, if you give Miltank Rapid Spin it becomes OU

 

[CRASHiC]

And then every Suicide Entry hazard leader becomes UU lol.

 

[Circa]

I'm sure everyone wants that lovable blob buffed lol.

I don't. A good portion of me despises that "lovable" blob. Swampert is enough Water/Ground for my tastes, thank you very much.

Although I guess it gives me an excuse to use Shaymin more, so **** it. Buff him.

Question and suggestion

How bout buff Miltank up to OU?

**** yes.

BTW, if you give Miltank Rapid Spin it becomes OU

No.

And then every Suicide Entry hazard leader becomes UU lol.

This is why.

We should actually buff both Scrappy users. Make one a sweeper of some sort (Scrappy Normal/Fighting gives absolutely perfect coverage) and make the other...idk what you'd do to the other. Is there any way to make Scrappy really useful on a defensive/support end (bar ****ing Rapid Spin)?

 

[CRASHiC]

A scrappy wall isn't forced out by Ghost types with Taunt.

What we could actually do is make Kang a modertly quick sweeper and make Milktank a suppoert/wall with a chance to go on the offensive. Kang would be Fighting/Normal, while Milktank would retain Normal. Kang would rely on typical attacks, while Milk can push its way through using Hammer Arm and Body Slam, hoping for a Paralysis.
Buff Kang's speed to 104 , drop her HP to 90, and his attack up to 125.
Then drop Milktanks speed down to 40, Attack up to 90, Defense up to 125, HP up to 115, special defense up to 110, attack up to 100.
Both have a BST of 530.

I really like both of these. Milktank always needed more stats to be a true Tank, and now has the stats to do so. I've also always wondered why the two Kanagroo Pokemon weren't Fighting. Hell, I think Ampy should be part fighting too, every kanagroo pokemon should.

 

[Circa]

I actually like those changes a lot. But why 104 Speed on? What exactly does that let it accomplish?

 

[UltiMario]

Don't buff Spiritomb's HP, buff his defenses.

Pain Split fool.

 

[CRASHiC]

I actually like those changes a lot. But why 104 Speed on ? What exactly does that let it accomplish?

The buff in speed allows it to outrun pokemon that would otherwise pose a major threat, Staraptor, Jirachi, and Gliscor stick out as Pokemon that were previously outrunning Khang that it now outruns.

and Ulti's suggestion is genious.

 

[mood4food77]

quagsire:

100 HP/95 Atk/85 Def/65 SpA/85 SpD/65 Spe

with those, he becomes bulkier than he already is, giving him more attack to help him out

he already has the movepool, the typing, and the ability, he just needs the stats

he really ***** every bulky water bar swampert in the game already, giving him better stats will really make him a good OU poke

 

[Wave⁂]

Breloom > Quagsire

 

[mood4food77]

i'm not trying to make it overly powerful, but in regular OU, quagsire already can stand up to bulky waters because of Water Absorb and hit their usually weaker defense, only swampert beats quagsire straight up and it's pretty close still

his main problem is that outside of countering bulky waters, he's useless, with the stat increase, he could possibly beat other pokemon and not just be utility

 

[UltiMario]

How about instant recover, instant recovery, or instant recovery?

That's a reason to use Quagsire all its own.

A little weaker, a little less bulky, and no ability to use special attacks.

In return, you get instant recovery and a whopping FIVE speed points.

That's a fair trade-off

 

[mood4food77]

quagsire already gets recover....

i don't exactly get what your getting at, unless you mean in regular play, then yes, that's why

but even with that instant recovery, he still can't do anything outside of countering bulky waters in which blissey does better and then some more

i buffed his HP to 100 so that if he runs max, it will take 5 seismic tosses to KO him, buffing his special defense allows him to be a little more tankish, and buffing his attack just so he's cooler

i don't really know why i buffed his speed, i might just leave it at 35, doesn't really matter though

 

[Circa]

Breloom > Quagsire

**** yeah.

That is all.

 

[CRASHiC]

That's Ulti's point mood4food.
That's completely outclassed by other Water/Grounds though aside from aqua absorb. He needs stats that are unique to him.