NU to OU: The Next Chapter

[UltiMario]

I'd just like to say something really quick.

The second batch of NU to OU here was horrible. Absolutely messy, unorganized, no-reason random bursts of "HEY I HAVE AN IDEA FOR THIS POKEMON WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT" out of the blue. It was horrible just to make the changelist for all this junk to the sheer lack of organization, even with most of the list right in front of my face. Yes, there was a fair amount of organized, discussed posts, but on the other hand, there was just as much random stuff going on.

I want to see this place tidy up a bit, 1-3 is going to have, as said, Theorymon for Latias in OU+, as well as Tauros' fixes, on top of that, I want to see ONLY 4-5 Other Pokemon voted on, and all focus being put on those for at least this stage to try and restore order to this place. More more sudden nonsensical changes; only orderly, discussed ones.

Thank you.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'd honestly say we leave it at only 3-4 new Pokemon for 1-3. The current boatload of Pokemon will take a while to sift through so limiting everything completely will make our lives easier once we staart stage 1-3.

 

[mood4food77]

uhhhh

if skarm is 2HKO'd by tauros, you did a good job

skarm can't afford to switch into tauros now that it is a guaranteed 2HKO with SR support

hell, most standard skarms just miss the 2HKO because of leftovers recovery, if skarm isn't carrying leftovers, skarm is pretty much 2HKO'd

same with bronzong

 

[UltiMario]

Jolly Tauros vs Standard Skarm-

299 Atk vs 396 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 132 - 156 (39.52% - 46.71%)

Did on Libelldra (for some reason now Cherubi.... man it's been a while since I used it lol) for KO %s.

0% to 2HKO with SR and Leftovers. .33% to KO with it holding Shed Shell with SR.

Adamant- 328 Atk vs 416 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 136 - 162 (40.72% - 48.50%) 5.79% to KO with SR and leftovers, 61.74% with Shed Shell with SR.

Flare Blitz doesn't do **** to help you.

 

[mood4food77]

change fearow

there is absolutely no reason to use fearow over staraptor

 

[CRASHiC]

Sure there is. Fearrow is faster. While Staraptor hits harder, he's weaker to priority thanks to his relience on recoil moves and Close Combat. Fearow also has Earthquake and Rock Slide, two options unique to him for the Normal/Flying type. Fearow also has Sword Dance, this combined with his speed stat makes him a deadily late game sweeper.

Mood, I'd like to know where you were testing these recent epihanies of yours when no one has been on the server for the past 3 hours.

 

[mood4food77]

i run adamant scarfraptor which is both faster and stronger than fearow
you remove SR and staraptor now can scout very, very efficiently

fearow is very frail, while staraptor is too, he at least has intimidate, which is really good for team support

fearow can be a good late game sweeper, but staraptor can too and doesn't need any boosting to do so, his attacks ****ing hurt and with u-turn, he annoys the hell out of you

 

[UltiMario]

If Fearow gets SD up, he can tear through ****.

His problem is he can't get SD up.

 

[CRASHiC]

There are far better scouts than Staraptor. Sharpedo, Scizor come to mind. For talking about how one pokemon outclasses another, that's not doing a bit of good.

Ground/Rock/Bird > Fighting/Bird attacks

 

[mood4food77]

but staraptor has u-turn and is already faster

sharpedo isn't really a scouter, more of a sweeper with that ability to abuse priority and he is also a trapper

i dont' see scizor that much in this metagame due to lack of users

oh, and staraptor survives a -1 explosion from heatran, it just happened

 

[Wave⁂]

oh, and staraptor survives a -1 explosion from heatran, it just happened

94.2% - 110.9%

OHKO with Stealth Rocks, 60% chance without.

And we all know how easy it is to set up Stealth Rocks with Electrode

 

[Circa]

Staraptor already has pursuit.

Are you able to make abilities? If so, creating more weather oriented abilities would be great to help a lot of weaker pokemon. I'm basically just thinking of abilities that boost defense/attack in certain weather conditions, like Solar Power without the damage. I think if more pokemon were able to take advantage of weather, weather-based teams wouldn't be so boring (because right now, almost all weather-based teams look extremely similar).

Speaking of weather, I'd like to see temporary "weather" inducing abilities as well if it's ever figured out how to make new abilities. And by "weather" I mean stuff like Trick Room and Gravity. Temporary for obvious reasons.

I'm pretty sure the abilities would be broken no matter how long they last (unless of course you put the moves on Pokemon that can't abuse them and/or don't like them at all...and even then there'd be some debate), but it would still be fun to mess with imo.

 

[mood4food77]

it's actually not when anti-lead sharpedo ***** it

and i was battling ultimario, i sent out staraptor so he couldnt' splode on my starmie, and staraptor lived

it also lived against a -1 ice shard from sharpedo

CAN YOUR FEAROW DO THAT?!?

 

[Wave⁂]

Machamp already has temporary Gravity.

Temporary Trick Room would be awesome. Give it to Pory2 or something.

 

[UltiMario]

Next NU to be worked on:

Staraptor Hard Counter.
asdasdafasfdafas

M4f is just ridiculous with this thing.

 

[mood4food77]

i <3 staraptor

just be happy it's not our:

pure power LO adamant staraptor under tailwind runnign 252atk/252spe using CC/BB/QA/U-Turn

 

[Terywj [태리]]

All this talk but I don't see anyone in Machamp's Pants for playtesting currently. Or did everyone get tired of Staraptor beating everything?

 

[mood4food77]

we're just doing ridiculous theorymoning right now

 

[Sir Bedevere]

...There's like 5 people in here. o_O Me, Ulti, mood and 2 random newbs.

 

[mood4food77]

i'm surprised they're still there

i ***** one of them almost single-handedly with staraptor

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I lied. It wasn't showing anyone in the server before and a while before.

 

[Circa]

Machamp already has temporary Gravity.

Temporary Trick Room would be awesome. Give it to Pory2 or something.

Machamp only has about half of what Gravity does. And I actually think people play down just how useful the ability could be played out to if it had an auto-inducer. Depending on who you give the ability to, it could really change the metagame; or at least one Pokemon's placement in the metagame.

Let's take Forretress, for instance. Because EQ now hits Rotom and Gengar just as hard as Payback would, it can now completely drop Payback and free up the extra slot. That extra slot is now just a simple choice between Gyro Ball and Explosion, and I'm assuming most would go with Explosion. Mix that with its ability to lay Spikes, a now unresisted entry hazard for as long as Gravity is in play, and you get yourself a potential staple for a lot of teams that like that consistent 12.5%+ (and stall). Compare that to what Forretress usually does now and it should be easy to see how big of an impact this ability can potentially make; and all it really has to do is just improve on what the Pokemon already does.

Trick Room would be awesome too though. I always loved it, even though it's rather unviable in its current state. Giving an auto-inducer for this could really rip holes in the metagame. And really **** it up too.

 

[mood4food77]

too bad we can't edit abilities like that

i really like what we did with ditto, it's completely usable now, i might start running lum berry on it so that it doesn't get statused, i'm not sure if he's OU or not, only because he becomes a better version of the opposing pokemon, he probably is but still iffy, he's so much fun to use though

farfetch'd is pretty good, i'm not sold on it being OU yet but it's definitely UU at the worst

golduck, definitely OU, we got this guy right

dugtrio, still UU, giving it more attack didn't really change him at all

fearow, staraptor still outclasses this by a lot, i say we make him that electric/flying physical sweeper suggestion someone did, he's not beating out staraptor for a role on any team in his current state

sableye, OU definitely, got this guy right

glalie, while usable, still not OU, just isn't bulky enough and ice/dark isn't a good typing at all

haven't played enough of the others to determine an outcome

[collapse=New Poke Idea]
looking at granbull and his stats, you can clearly see he's just an inferior ursaring, with the same HP and Def with 10 lower in both attack and speed, and then 15 lower SpA and SpD. really, the only reason to use granbull over ursaring is the fact he has intimidate, which makes granbull more physically bulky than ursaring, hell even the move sets are close to the same

so what to do to make him usable

the easy fix would be to give him a usable speed stat, but that basically makes him an inferior staraptor (seriously....)
so what to do to this guy:

i say actually change his speed so it's higher, but this clearly is not enough as he would still be outclassed by staraptor (staraptor having double stab and u-turn really makes a huge difference)
one thing he does have going for him are secondary moves that force switches like charm, attract, toxic, captivate, etc

one other thing he has is smelling salt, a cool attack that deals double damage to t-waved poke but cures them of paralysis and he also learns t-wave (the strongest pokemon capable of learning this), this could be a cool double strategy with increased speed and stuff

i dunno, i'm just throwing ideas out there to help with him, he's a tough cookie to crack as he's completely outclassd

here's a neat idea (at least on paper)
give him static over quick feet, increase his speed to 105, decrease his special attack to 30
this could really abuse smelling sault with this moveset

smelling sault
close combat
crunch
thunder wave

with static and t-wave, you're going to force switches, you could change his type to normal/dark just to make crunch a more viable option (and it kinda works aesthetically)
with the possibility of having 3 base 120 moves at his disposal and having great coverage, it could work pretty well[/collapse]

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Why are you working on edits for a Pokemon? Our current batch / stage is not anywhere near closing. Wait for when we're mainly done before submissions and discussions on new Pokemon edits will start up again.

 

[mood4food77]

i thought we could discuss a pokemon any time, i'm not saying edit it in, i'm just giving a suggestion


YOU PEOPLE AND YOUR RULES!!!! jeez....

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Well I guess you can, but I'd prefer if you didn't for now as it would make a jumble in here. Just save it as a word document for later. Remember that we won't be editing that many new Pokemon for 1-3, so keep that in mind.

 

[mood4food77]

i know, i was thinking SmashCAP 4 and 5 NU to OU pokes at most

and i wasn't really giving edits on the already created pokes, just my views on them

at least my granbull idea is already in a collapse box

 

[Moozle]

I think Scarfed Farfetch'd is definitely OU material. Its stats and move pool are really good, and I really like the ability Water Viel.

Glalie could use just a bit higher special defense, but other than that, he definitely does his job well. Running a set like the one below works really well, especially with all of the new birds running around. It would be nice to have a good ice stab, though.

Glalie@Leftovers
Solid Rock / Impish
252 HP / 100 Attack / 156 Def (I don't know for sure about these EVs, but they've worked well for me so far)
~Crunch
~Earthquake
~Rapid Spin
~Spikes

Marowak is not good enough. He's got some crazy attacking potential, but he's too slow and too frail.

Exeggutor is a great status inflictor, but has a hard time dealing with all of the birds that I've been seeing. Yeah it has Will-O-Wisp, but that doesn't help when a scarfed Farfetch'd or Staraptor switches in. I really don't think that Exeggutor needs any more buffs though; it just needs good team support.

Golduck is great. I haven't tried a Cloud Nine variant yet, but I just faced Sir Bedevere's Hail team and I can definitely see why running Cloud Nine would help. Trace is really good.

Just my opinion on some of the NUs that I've been using the most

 

[Terywj [태리]]

How does Jolly Choice Scarf Exeggutor work? Is it worth trying to use? Fast, accurate status spreading could have some value.

 

[CRASHiC]

I'd imgine it would be outclasses as a status spreader by Jumpluff, but as an attacker it has serious potential with Wood Hammer and Explosion in its arsenal. I haven't gotten around to testing any of the Tree brothers yet.

What we could do with Glalie is increase its special defense and lower its speed. I'm interested to see what sets come out of him however.

If you buff Marowak's HP up to 80, I believe he'd have a much better shot. Let's just make sure not to give him any sort of priority move. Dugtrio on the other hand fulfills his purpose.

Has anyone attempted to use a Sleep Talk variant of Lanturn with her new ability Marvel Scale? With all of the parafusion and birds running around, I'd imagine she'd make a great addition. There's also the new Quick Feet Amphy, who I haven't seen anything of when I played. This can be abused a couple of ways. She can add to her bulk by using Trick to spread Flame Orb, and she can reach a respectable 343 speed with Quick Feet activated. You can also run a sleep talk varient on her. In fact, Amphy is a great pokemon to carry if you hate Rotoms, as she can absorb status and begin her nasty nasty sweep, and thanks to her special attack can hit back pretty hard. I think Amphy is really someone to use, though I think Lanturn is currently completely outshined in her new role by Miltoc.

 

[UltiMario]

Does Milotic have STAB Thunderbolt or Thunder Wave?

Don't think so.

Also, I support +SpD -Spe for Glalie. Seeing as every major ghost and its mother is a special attacker (no Dusknoir isn't allowed to exist it sucks) and the fact that you're not outspeeding they anyways to Crunch them, Payback with low speed and tolerable special defense would be nice.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

The reason I mentioned a Jolly Choice Scarf Exeggutor was that it could outpace physical Pokemon and cripple with a more accurate Will-o-Wisp, but I doubt Jolly Choice Scarf Exeggutor outspeeds Adamant Staraptor.

 

[mood4food77]

adamant scarfraptor outruns timid scarf rotom

so if exeggutor doesn't outrun that, then it won't outrun scarfraptor

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I wasn't talking about Scarf Staraptor, though. I was talking about standard or SubRoost Staraptor.

 

[Moozle]

From what i've seen, Scarfraptor pretty much IS the standard.

 

[UltiMario]

It really does ****.

I've been using it and can vouch for its effectiveness

 

[mood4food77]

scarfraptor is all i use, whether in OU or OU+

it's just that in OU, it's really hard to prevent SR, but in OU+, preventing rocks seems so much easier

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Actually, preventing or spinning Rocks is much easier because of our edits to Electrode (setting up) and Glalie (spinning away) and Lilibelle (spin-blocking). We're crafted a metagame where Stealth Rocks are not as much of a problem, but the three-sided face of Stealth Rock play are all benefitted.

 

[mood4food77]

actually, anti-leading is much more effective in our metagame than in regular OU

which is saying something
like you can try an SR lead but the only one that's not screwed over by fake out is sableye

 

[Wave⁂]

actually, anti-leading is much more effective in our metagame than in regular OU

I disagree. Standard OU has much less variation in lead usage, so anti-leads are more successful over there.

which is saying something

What is it saying?

like you can try an SR lead but the only one that's not screwed over by fake out is sableye

Electrode, Aerodactyl, and Azelf aren't screwed over by Fake Outs that aren't as fast as Deoxys-S.