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NU to OU: The Next Chapter

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
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Hm. Yeah, +4 / +4 does seem a wee bit impossible. But +2 / +4 is perfect doable if you switch into a Thunderbolt or after a kill.

Baton Pass sucks. Dual Screens is basically all Delcatty has going for it, and you might as well use Bronzong (who gets Explosion and resists lots of stuff), Uxie (who is really bulky and has Yawn, Memento, and U-Turn), or lead Azelf. Dual Screens isn't as effective on stall as it is on Heavy Offense, and even there it's not needed. Also Dual Screen means no Leftovers.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
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It can Wishpass, Cleric, and Toxic Steels. At the very least Delcatty would have a nice UU Niche being able to Toxic Registeel.
 

Circa

Smash Champion
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timssu
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It can Wishpass, Cleric, and Toxic Steels. At the very least Delcatty would have a nice UU Niche being able to Toxic Registeel.
Uhhh...I'm pretty sure that's not how that works. I'm pretty sure Steels are just immune to the poison status in general. Like how you can't use a Normalized WoW to burn Fire-types or how you can't Toxic Poisons.

I might be wrong though. I've never actually tried to see if this was true.
 

UltiMario

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I tested it. Steels are immune to poisoning. Period.


D:
 

UltiMario

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This MIGHT just be a PO bug, though. I recall hearing stuff like using Twineedle to poison steels, etc.

If we can get someone who can test this in-game, we might have spotted a PO bug and get it fixed. If not, then we know so for sure.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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Messages
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Twineedle poisoning is a bug in the second generation.

It is impossible for a Pokémon with a Steel typing to be poisoned, period.
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
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Tery, were is your project that was never posted?
Also, about Artie's Ditto, do you guys feel that HP boosting would be enough? I think we might want to boost its speed as well. Since its ability changes after it switches, it would also be a decent/funny idea to give it Wonder Guard.
 

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
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Base 200 HP and say base 60 Speed. Wonder Guard would be great on Ditto.

And I was working on Marowak, but I lost all the scripts I wrote up, and you've already
I'll try Seaking once I get back from taking failing my permit test.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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Ditto revamp:

130 HP / 100 Speed, Transform copies ability like Trace, more PP for copied moves
 

UltiMario

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Its speed goes away, so it's not worth boosting, that much HP guarantees transform anywhoo.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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If I'm up against a Heatran, I'd want to Transform before it Fire Blasts me.

Unless it then uses Earth Power, in which case FFFFFFFFF
 

Moozle

Smash Champion
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Madison, WI
I'm trying to do a revamp of Castform at the moment. The only thing I can think of his giving him stats like 100/ 70 / 70 / 100 / 70 / 70 in his normal form, and different stats for each of his other forms.

Water - 70 / 70 / 120 / 120 / 70 / 70

Fire - 70 / 70 / 70 / 120 / 70 / 120

Ice - 70 / 70 / 70 / 120 / 120 / 70

It would be great if he could change with the weather AND have a secondary ability, like chlorophyll/swift swim. Would the stats I listed above have any effect on making him at least slightly useful?
 

CRASHiC

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Actually, I'm not sure if we can change him. I think the most interesting thing about him is that he can change into a Fire type without taking damage from Stealth Rocks, but before we get to work doing theory, I'd like to hear from Ulti if changing his stats based on the above is possible.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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Wonder Guard for Ditto would be so awesome.
This could actually be doable. We just leave his HP alone. Even if Ditto switches into your Spiritomb, you can just switch out Spiritomb for something else that you can easily deal with, like your Alakazam. Once Ditto is Alakazam, switch back to Spiritomb and make Ditto crap his pants.
 

CRASHiC

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You could probably turn Seaking into a powerful physical attacker who doesn't rely on Priority. Other than GDose, let's face it, Water does not have much on that front. With the right stats, it could fill a different role than GDose, and the ability Water Veil will grant it something very important against stall as a physical attacker, immunity to burn.

Or

Another option is to give it Pure Power, allowing you to give it a great stat spread without having to give it Pseudo legendary status. Of course, I don't like this option because this is what we should do with Azumril, however, you could use this to make an incredibly bulky pokemon, while with Azu we use it to make a sweeper.

What I've been doing, personally, is picking out Pokemon that are too strong in the OU metagame currently, and finding new counters to make for them, to nerf them down a degree. I made Golduck with the intent of hurting Heatran, I picked Gladalie with the intent of hurting Rotom and all suicide rock/spikes leads, and I picked Altaria with the intent of hurting Jumpluff.
 

Terywj [태리]

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Azumarill already has the movepool it needs. Honestly the only thing lacking for Azumarill is bulkier defenses. That's pretty much it. Seaking is just, crap.

I'll try to leaf for a different NU Pokemon.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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Give Castform 110 in all stats.

That might bring it to Uber. Which would be fun.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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Problems with Castform: Slow and Weak

Slowness can only be fixed by giving it speed-boosting moves or increasing stats.
Weakness can only be fixed by increasing stats.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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If we're aiming for an offensive Castform, 80 is not going to be enough.
 

Terywj [태리]

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Dodrio
Type: Normal / Flying
Ability: Intimidate / Hustle
Base Stats: 85 / 115 / 85 / 60 / 85 / 125
Movepool Additions: Blaze Kick, Low Kick, Outrage

Dodrio has healthier defenses, and with Blaze Kick / Low Kick has a more reliable way to take on pesky Steel-types who resist Return and Brave Bird. Hustle can provide more power at the cost of some accuracy, but it's more useful than Run Away. I'm not exactly sure if there are more unique moves that would fit and benefit Dodrio, so I'm open to all comments and suggestions.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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I think we can all agree that all Normal / Flying types are hopeless.
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
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I disagree, I think some interesting things CAN be done with Dodrio and the other Normal/Flying, the only type I would declare useless is Flying/Ice without Magic Guard, however, I don't think Tery's got the right idea, though he does offer a few interesting bits. For example, the main problem with Normal/Flying is steel types. Giving them Outrage, a move many steels are already able to switch into is yet another reason for a steel type to switch into Dodrio. Being forced to switch isn't something we want to do.

One option for Dodrio is to give him a combo that would undoubtbly be the 2nd gayest legal combo in the game, second only to Machamp with No Guard and Dynamic Punch. Serene Grace and Tri Attack, with Dodrio being a powerful special sweeper. This helps it in a few ways. Most steels dislike special attacks, however, how would a steel type feel about switching into a special attacker that could freeze/burn/prlz them? Not a pretty option. sure, they might not mind prlz so much, but god forbid freeze or burn. I'll admit, Dodrio is anything but serene, perhaps some sense could be made of it reguarding the three heads.

On top of this, another way to make Pokemon fear switch ins would be to grant it Adaptability. A STAB Tri-beam is a pretty deadily force, even in a world full of ghost, as we have created several SmashCAPs full of ghost, and with Rotom figures, Gengar, Sabyleye, and Dusclops running around, its not an unstoppable force by any means, especially considering the large number of types that resist it. Adaptability makes aesthic sense thanks to its three heads providing the power to come up with the times 2 on STAB, while on his Ice/Fire/Lighting special moves he would be using a single head at a time, thus not allowing for the power boost.

If we look at the aesthics, the idea of three heads DOES seem to suggest a potent mixed attacker. Of course, such things were unheard of back then, especially out a Normal/Flying type, however currently I believe that Dodrio does stand to be a powerful quick, potent mixed attacker. Grant him Pure Power and a wider movepool and you could make him just that.

So, what do we do here? How close should we follow aesthics, and do we ignore the fact that everyone hates HAX and just create another potent user of it? Do we stick close to aesthics and forget about serene grace?

Even if we ignore aesthics, I think the best option though, when I really give it a long thought is clearly the mixed sweeper with Adaptability/Pure Power. Why is this interesting? Because both of these abilities essentially turn the pokemon into two completely different animals. Keep in mind, we would use Pure Power to boost its attack stat while investing its its Special Attack and Speed. So, as Bill Nye the Science guy once said, please consider the following.


As dodrio runs pure power, its able to run as a potent mix sweeper, though its clearly walled by steel and ghost types, though it fears few other walls. Its fast and strong enough to take out a good deal of Pokemon. However, from the moment its out, the opponent has to ask themselves a question, is this Pure Power Dodrio, or is this adaptability dodrio? He doesn't know exactly, either one would be a good switch in to this pokemon. What do I do? He switches in his Blissey, predicting a pure special sweeper running adaptability, opting not to bring out his Metagross, only to find it destroyed by a Return!

Now, THIS is what Dodrio could be, a pokemon with two distinctive and Pokemon defying abilities that it can't take advantage of at once, but it can abuse its opponent in the always fun game of GUESS OR DIE. Now, compare that to a Pokemon that just sits around attempting to get a Freeze off of Tri-attack, doesn't sound nearly as interesting, or as plausible for Dodrio, does it? Clearly THIS is the option we want to take Dodrio, as it fits both aesthically, but we make a viable Pokemon who commands a great deal of skill to use and to fight against.

As for the movepool and the new BST, I say on his stats he is mostly fine, flip Attack and special attack, nerf attack down to 45, boost Special Attack up to 115 and we've got ourselves a real contender here. He's not faster than most sweepers, though his Agility takes care of that, and if he wants the most out of Pure Power, he'll be force to run Max Attack, limiting his options.

As for his movepool, he'll need the obvious lighting attacks, and seeing as how he can learn Tri Attack, each signifing one of his heads, I think its a given that he should learn lighting, fire, and ice attacks, if just the most basics. I question if we should give him Sucker Punch (Sucker Punch is NOT a punch, keep that in mind, its original name Surprise Attack), because he needs SOMETHING to do against Sharpedo. I believe that Sucker Punch would be too strong an attack under full blast Pure Power, so Vacume Wave would probably be the better option. Its useful in both the mixed variants AND the Special varriants. You could also give him Extreme Speed. Yes, Adaptability and Extreme Speed sucks, however running on a Base 45 Attack isn't going to get you very far, he'd have to run Pure Power if he wished to get anywhere with Extremespeed. I say we leave Close Combat to Staraptor and instead give him Earthquake, hell, I thought he knew Earthquake in the first place. This gives him options against steels. I don't believe he could shut down every wall at once and still run a fully competent set, even in the Pure Power mixed set, but given the access to Thunderbolt, Earthquake, and Flamethrower does grant him a wide array of options in dealing with steel types.

EDIT- In Summary
Dodrio- Pure Power/Adaptability
Attack- 45
Special Attack- 115
Movepool additons-
Extreme Speed, Vacume Wave, Thunder Bolt, Thunder, Flame Thrower, Fire Blast, Ice beam, Blizzard and some other special moves that you guys see fit.
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
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Yeah, about Vacuum Wave, help me out here, just HOW does a pokemon do that? I've always had a lot of trouble imagining that move.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
11,870
I still think STAB Normal is the ****tiest thing ever, but I guess that could work.

Normal STAB Adaptability Modest Life Orb Lucario's Tri Attack vs. CB Scizor: 39.9% - 47.2%

New problem: Tri Attack has really low base power.
 
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