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Data Now, Let's try it Together: Wii Fit Trainer's Matchup Thread (Trying a New System & Owner Soon)

DairunCates

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Wii Fit Trainer I find myself playing almost exactly the same type of strategy, only with a worse grab, worse projectiles and a much, much worse recovery.
I have to ask. Do you know that you can vastly improve her recovery by jamming B REALLY quickly? I thought the recovery was terrible too until I went into custom moves and saw that in the description for the base one. Her projectiles also have some properties that make them very interesting and useful (there's an entire thread on the crazy stuff header can do).

As for the throws, roll canceled throw teching helps a LOT with that.

I still have trouble with her range and getting a non-punish kill in, though.
 

Bowaleed_Gaming

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Hey Guys,
Im new to the forum, but I wanted to main WFT trainer ever since i saw her trailer.
she is awesome, been playing with her for a bit..well, a lot! i consider her my second now.. my main will always be Peach.

Anyway, her Worst match-up has got to be pickachu, his thunder bolts, his grab, his dash... he can easily camp her but also he is soooo small you cannot even grab her properly! he is too short! he combos her very easily and even her F-Tilt will not connect sometimes (this happens tons of times for me! yes i can grab him, but most of the time.. i swear i think its because of his height, i know she has a bad grab but its so weird with pika and mario). so maybe because im facing lag, but the guy i play with is kinda great with pika. i feel like im having a looot of trouble with her against pika.
 

Thinkaman

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I had a good deal of difficulty playing against Pikachu myself. Pika and Kirby I just whiff everything on due to height...
 

crisspy727

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Not to be messed up but i would just avoid picking her all together against these short hurtbox characters since they could just crouch a lot of her important moves such as short hop Nair and Grab its just a hellish match up if you can't shield grab.
 
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adlp

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pivot ftilts work pretty well on small characters if they're not crouching under your stuff
 

ShippoFoxFire

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Sun Salutation is an amazing projectile especially for a character who can weave in and out of battle. A fully charged one can hit an unsuspecting opponent who tries to recover. I prefer the Multi Hitting one, but the Larger to smaller one has been growing on me. only doing 2 damage but a 20 damage kill move is pretty sweet (with deep breathing it kills at around 100%).
Pivot Ftilt is also great, and learn the followups and what percents things should work after her Jab 3. Usually after 30% I go for the dtilt option. After 70% I go for the Dsmash.
 

adlp

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i feel like sheik should win but the ones i've been facing online were significantly worse than me but i still had a hard time sometimes
 

GalaxyWaffles

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From what I've seen (on streams, youtube, etc) Fsmash only whiffs on smaller characters if they're near the tip (her hand). If they're closer to WFT body it will connect.
 

CandyCakes

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Kirby is so hard to approuch since he's so defensive. It's ugh so hard like do any of u guys have advice?
 

Lukingordex

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I've been playing a lot of WFT lately and I think her problem is that she really has a hard time approaching most characters due to awful range, sun salutation helps a lot in this situation but still...

Sheik is a nightmare of a matchup imo, she can approach wft easily because her speed makes wft's projectiles not very useful to camp in that mu and in return wft just can't approach sheik and can be gimped fairy easily.
 
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Nabbitnator

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Could wii fit trainer be an issue for zss? If her hitbox while crouching is like Kirby's then all of her grounded moves will miss unless she uses down smash or dtilt. I noticed when those moves whiff I can just dash and punish her for nearly everything just by using good placement of her crouching position.
 

dedekong

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Could wii fit trainer be an issue for zss? If her hitbox while crouching is like Kirby's then all of her grounded moves will miss unless she uses down smash or dtilt. I noticed when those moves whiff I can just dash and punish her for nearly everything just by using good placement of her crouching position.
We can only hope, but as it currently stands... ZZS has been abusing WFT often.
 

Nabbitnator

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im going to test this out tomorrow. From what I know against Kirby forward b, dash, fsmash, ftilt, and her projectiles all whiff when he is crouching and since wft hurtbox is even lower then Kirby's she should be able to punish on reaction.
 

⑨ball

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I know that Fsmash, sideB, grab and her projectiles whiff, but I don't know about dash. This is something I've been talking about since my first couple of posts and you'll find that it works against so much and dtilt is a great punish that recovers into crouch.

Just be careful over abusing it since if you crouch too long she goes into her pushup animation that raises her hitbox slightly. You'll still dodge things like projectiles but you'll have to be wary of things like Little Mac's KO punch that you can usually dodge.
 

deepseadiva

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Thoughts on WFT vs Sheik matchup?
Sheik has ideal front-facing and sweeping hitboxes on her fair which really bothers me because Wiifi does not. She has these "awkward" slanty hitboxes in like the right corner of her attacks. Her more usefu hitboxes are behind her, IMO. The ones that hit in the bottom left behind her. Which is really really nice sometimes, I love having a jab that swats people away with her ankle, something most if not all characters except for her can do. But christ I wish it was in front of her very often.

Maybe this is a character you literally have to play backward. xD

Start fairing people in reverse.
 

Enigma14

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This one Diddy player destroyed me. I only won a match cause he whiffed his recovery. Also that flip of Diddy's has armor or something.
 

DJ Arcatek

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I just wanna say the Lucario matchup is straight BOOTY. I suppose that was expected considering how busted of a character he is now, but man. If there's one match up I hate, it's definitely WFT vs Lucario.
 

SuaveChaser

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I just wanna say the Lucario matchup is straight BOOTY. I suppose that was expected considering how busted of a character he is now, but man. If there's one match up I hate, it's definitely WFT vs Lucario.
I know that feel my first tourney i lost to lucario aura sphere.
 

GalaxyWaffles

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With constant talk surrounding Rosaluma.. how do you think we do against her? I know nothing about the match up aside from one thing. WFT doesn't really struggle with luma unlike some characters.
 

Gene

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I think WFT vs Olimar is a nightmare. I went to a tourney 2 weeks ago and got timed out, and my opponent told me he doesn't even play Olimar. I couldn't camp and I got punished when playing offensive.
 

⑨ball

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This one Diddy player destroyed me. I only won a match cause he whiffed his recovery. Also that flip of Diddy's has armor or something.
It doesn't. And command grabs fall under the rule of grab breaks now, meaning they will lose to attacks but give you damage for the attempt.

I just wanna say the Lucario matchup is straight BOOTY. I suppose that was expected considering how busted of a character he is now, but man. If there's one match up I hate, it's definitely WFT vs Lucario.
Aura and Rage combined is certainly a questionable mechanic, but I don't think he's broken or anything. I don't even see anything from him that'll put him in the top tiers. Lucario relies on being able to live to ungodly percents to make the most of Aura and Rage. Lucario being in the same weight class as Mario should make this hard since if you were getting that damage in the first place you should also be able to land your kill hits, and WFT has the option to make her already early options even earlier with deep breathing.

With constant talk surrounding Rosaluma.. how do you think we do against her? I know nothing about the match up aside from one thing. WFT doesn't really struggle with luma unlike some characters.
We're probably going to stack up pretty well in the end. Maybe even being a bad MU of 6/4. We've got a lot of ridiculous tools that almost seem to directly counter some of her own.

I think WFT vs Olimar is a nightmare. I went to a tourney 2 weeks ago and got timed out, and my opponent told me he doesn't even play Olimar. I couldn't camp and I got punished when playing offensive.
Had you played the MU before and were customs legal?
The Oli's I've played were decent and I couldn't find anything notably bad for WFT. His new UpB has both pros for him, and cons we can exploit. He's also fair light dying as early as 65% from sweet spotted DB Usmash.

==
@ Oatmeal. Oatmeal. what do you think about doing a week of for characters and MUs?
 

Gene

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Had you played the MU before and were customs legal?
The Oli's I've played were decent and I couldn't find anything notably bad for WFT. His new UpB has both pros for him, and cons we can exploit. He's also fair light dying as early as 65% from sweet spotted DB Usmash.
I actually never played the MU before but I didn't think it would be as bad, for me at least. There was no customs.
 

⑨ball

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That'd be great. Should it be in an orderly fashion (ex. week 1 = Mario, week 2 = Luigi, etc.) or should we decide every week which one to analyze?
A decision based one would probably hold more value for the community, seeing as it'd most likely focus on characters most people come across the most (ala Little Mac) or characters most people have problems with (ala RosaLuma). It'd also let us avoid empty weeks where only a few people have any input due to MU inexperience. It'd be harder to keep track of for you however.

I actually never played the MU before but I didn't think it would be as bad, for me at least. There was no customs.
One of the easiest ways to lose a match is to have no idea what you're fighting against. You'll not only get caught by things you'd otherwise be prepared for, but falter in places you shouldn't. When you get a chance do some friendlies with an Olimar. Even if they have no idea what they're doing, you'll get an idea of what's available to you both and how to use them. It'll also help to check around the threads to in case you've missed any info we gathered on her.
 
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Enigma14

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I was fighting my friend's Marth and won an almost even match against him. I have a low quality video if anyone want to watch. Also I am one of a few testers of moves in the Reddit community so if anyone wants to test match ups, I am free to play a few rounds. I play as almost everyone so if you wanna test your WFT against me then I'm willing.

However I have a test next week and need to study, so I could play one match once in a while during this time and next week so...
 

Oatmeal.

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Yeah, that's fine.

How about Rosalina first? I see problems with her all over the boards, seeing the name might draw attention to the thread.
 

ShippoFoxFire

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I'm just going to point it out here for the Rosalina Matchup.
Use Sweeping salutation, Luma will get thrown back to Rosaline (I think) and also hit Rosa. Her down be can be fine, it gives you room to move forward.

Your awkward hitboxes make a great boxing game as you do not have to worry about Luma sandwiching you. You hit behind and in front of you, luma gets thrashed if they try some setups. Ease in, never hit her directly from above or below!

Early Game: Wii Fit Advantage
Your goal here is to go in and rack up your combo damage. You can push around that giant hitbox better than most characters. Your awkward hitboxes would prevent Rosalina from combo breaking with Luma as Luma will most likely be thrown some other direction. Nair/Ftilt/Jab are fantastic tools for separating the two. You want to make sure Rosalina has no control over Luma. Do not be too obvious and do not stray from Rosalina too hard, as her close range is strong yet slow. Please don't nair into her, you /WILL/ get usmashed.

Mid Game: Rosalina Advantage
This is where Rosalina excels. She can no longer be followed up and grabbing her with Luma around is asking to be killed. This is where Sun Salutation should be used to keep them at bay. Sweeping Sun is the preferred one as it carries Luma away. It doesn't matter if Rosalina can absorb the projectile, your focus is to remove that star from battle and rack up what little damage you can. Wii Fit is pretty mobile and agile so it's going to be one uphill battle.

End Game: Rosalina Advantage
WiiFit can't kill. Rosalina accidentally kills. When you're at a high percent Rosalina's smashes are deadly. Upsmash will cover tons of ground around her, Dsmash covers FANTASTIC range especially with luma. Up Air is a trap you do not want to challenge. You respect that move hardcore. Becuase Rosalina has a fantastic recovery, she will 9/10 times recover from far low as to not get gimped. Wii Fit can gimp rosalina STRAIGHT DOWN only. I'm not 100% sure on the invincibility of her recovery, but a fair near the ledge can put a thorn in her side. Unfortunately because of Wii Fit's recovery, spikes decimate Wii Fit. This is a pretty uphill battle. You can kill her earlier than most characters so it's not a hopeless uphill battle. Just be super careful as her smashes pack a HUGE punch



My Judgement on Matchup: 60:40 Rosalina
 
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⑨ball

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I actually already did a spreadsheet on our kill percents for every character in the game.
You can look at it here:


Things to keep in mind when looking at these numbers:
  • All data recorded was done on omega battlefield in training mode from default positions with a few exceptions
    • Meaning that the opponent is near the edge, rage is not factored in, vectoring is not factored in, and moves are thought of as fresh.
  • Numbers are only recorded if they are killed by touching the blastzone with black lightning
    • Meaning you will sometimes kill earlier and some characters unable to recover will die much earlier
      • Black Lightning is used to help better predict against vectoring
  • No Smashes were charged
  • All attacks applicable but Usmash are sweet spotted
  • Usmash is performed from a DACUS on the ground against everyone but the exceptions
    • Meaning you'll kill much earlier if sweetspotted
      • The exceptions were Kirby, Meta Knight, Pikachu and Jigglypuff who were all hit at the start of their jumps
  • Sun Salute was fully charged.
  • Uair is recorded from each characters full jump height
    • Meaning you'll kill a lot earlier if used from WFT's double jump height(the usual area you'll hit)
  • Deep Breathing cut's about 20% off of each of kill percent.
    • About 25% sweetspotted
These percents were not recorded on every character due to being too high to be judged as viable kill moves, but can be rationed out using basic subtraction/addition with Mario's percents as a base.

Dtilt - 195%
Utilt - 285%
Jab(front) - 315%
Dash Attack - 260%
Fair(front) - 180%
r-Fair (meteor bounce)- 415%
Nair - 185%
Bthrow -175%
Fthrow - 200%
Uthrow - 195%
Dthrow -260%
Header(ball) - 240%
Header (headbutt)(meteor bounce) - 300%
UpB - 275%

You generally want to kill before you hit these percents, but if it ever happens then they become usable.

I'll be dropping a post on Rosalina and Luma soon.
 

Thinkaman

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I have experience to share for the Rosaluma matchup!

Let's skip to the good part: This matchup sucks without Jumbo Hoop, which is one of the best anti-Luma moves in the entire game. It really is just absolutely brutal against the poor little star.

Speedy Star Bit means you will not be able to charge up at range as long as Luma is alive. This makes Sweeping Sun Salutation pretty crappy in this matchup, contrary to my initial predictions. Concentrated Sun Salutation is preferred, for it's speed, KO power, the ability to just OHKO Luma in most situations, and ability to "headshot" Rosalina above Luma.

You want normal Header in this matchup, to at least compete in the otherwise doomed ranged war. This at least forces a block/dodge/jump that lets you advance.

I like Deep Breathing to help kill. Neither of the other options is a good fit for the needs of this matchup.

WFT is decent at juggling, which Rosalina hates. Beware her fair, smashes, and grabs as you try to attack her when Luma is dead--standard Rosalina matchup protocol.

The matchup feels surprisingly close to even to me, only thanks to based Jumbo Hoop, destroyer of worlds. (Or at least stars)
 
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Enigma14

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I have experience to share for the Rosaluma matchup!

Let's skip to the good part: This matchup sucks without Jumbo Hoop, which is one of the best anti-Luma moves in the entire game. It really is just absolutely brutal against the poor little star.
I don't have my 3DS on me but is Jumbo Hoop not a custom move?
 

⑨ball

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Understanding Rosalina and Luma

  • Rosalina is a very interesting take on two old mechanics. The puppeteer character. And the glass canon.
  • As a puppeteer character, she controls Luma who she can shoot out or leave at default position and control with either her NeutralB / Side B instructions or by performing normals meaning that Luma is essentially a character on her own.
  • Luma is also a glass canon, being very susceptible to strong hitting attacks, as that will put him into a tumble that he can not recover from until he returns to neutral.
  • Unless changed otherwise, Luma likes being positioned in front of Rosalina, operating as a physical shield, a turret, and a disjoint all in one.
  • He will react to the players button presses even in the cases that Rosalina herself can not do anything, making them a dangerous combination to face on levels similar to those of the Ice Climbers from previous games.
  • This includes shielding and grabbing although Luma is unable to do either of these things.
  • He has a total of 52HP and will respond after death every 8 seconds.
  • Despite her size, Rosalina has no weight and falls into the glass canon class herself. She however is able to cover this weakness very well by having some of the best if not THE best defensive options in the game.
  • Her movement, while outclassed by characters like Fox and Sheik, is still very decent and she can close in on you very fast if you're not careful.
  • Her rolls and dodges make her invisible during their invincible frames, making it harder than most to read her. If a RosaLuma player has a good handle on this, you're gonna have a bad time if you're not watching closely enough.
  • She's incredibly floaty and has decent aerial maneuverability.
  • Her jumps are pretty great and will take her decently high.
  • She has a crouch/crawl, and despite it's weird appearance, is fairly good at letting her repeat while keeping her in position to retaliate.
  • Her foxtrot is pretty good but because Luma can't keep up with things like perfect pivots, and her dash dance is difficult on 3DS, you probably won't see it much at least until WiiU.

Up against our own special character mechanic, it becomes an interesting fight as it virtually counters her own. Double sided attacks at the least will desync Luma often enough that she'll become unable to respond to player commands. At worst, we'll flat out put him into tumble where he can't do anything to help her at all.

This doesn't make the fight a cakewalk by any means, as Rosalina is still very competent on her own, but being able to get in without the fear of Luma acting as a shield or threat behind you as you put on pressure is certainly nice.

- Rosalina's jab is pretty basic for Smash 4. Having access to both the 1-2-3 combo type and the multihit type. It's nothing amazing on damage and doesn't do a good job holding in the opponent, but it comes out fast enough to be usable and covers the area directly in front of her while her mechanics kick in.

- Luma's jab is much stronger and while it's multi hit still lacks damage and lacks a hold like Little Mac, the three hit combo has great knock back, and the jab hits can easily setup into Utilt and Usmash links.

- Her dash attack doesn't travel too far with an air dive to stand, but can have that impression if Luma leads. It hits twice making it good against power shields. Decent damage, and pops you up for good follow ups.

-Rosalina's tilts are all fast and long thanks to her limbs and star themed disjoints. Luma sits in front or nearby to pile on the damage, knock back, or hitstun.

-Ftilt is a fast swing out of both her legs, while Luma imitate. Rosalina does 6% and Luma does 4% for a combined 10%. It can not be angled.

-Dtilt is the same only angled downwards for 4% while Luma hits diagonally downwards for 3%.

-Utilt is a great anti air that sends out a small ring that bounces opponents upwards. It'll miss you standing directly next to her and won't become a kill move with no vectoring until around 170%. Luma's Utilt however is a viable kill move. Sweetspotted(think Mega Man's Utilt) it can kill as early as 130% with no vectoring. It can also hit you on the ground unlike Rosalina. Interestingly enough, they don't seem to be too in sync for this move. If one hits you the other probably won't. 4% sour, 8% sweet.

-RosaLuma has a great set of Smashes and it's here that the canon aspect of her character type really shows. They're powerful, disjointed, and have less recovery than our own smashes. They're biggest flaw seems to be in that the animation happens before the hitbox, meaning you can sometimes hit or grab her right through the stars she creates.

- Her Fsmash has her lean forward and make a mini galaxy that hits hard for 12% and can be angled to catch characters(like wiifit lol) that like to dance around her. Starts becoming a kill move at 100%. Luma's Fsmash, has him throw a hard cross for 7% that'll kill 5% earlier. It can be overshot unlike Rosalina's and miss you completely. It can also be angled. Both have sweet and sourspots. Because they link into each other(from Rosalina to Luma) it can kill about 10-15% earlier together. Covers a lot of space besides. Trajectory on both works in your favor, so don't bother DIing, just vector to survive.

- Her Dsmash does a spinning kick that does 7% on the front and 9% on the back. Doesn't really kill until later percents(170%), but the angle it send you out at is one that sets up for powerful edge guards as you will almost always need to use your second jump to get back. As usual, Luma will hit harder and kill earlier with an emulated attack around 130%. In this move however, he attacks in the opposite direction as Rosalina, meaning he won't hit you in combination from the front, but may provide pressure if you dodge/block Rosalina's initial Dsmash hit. They'll hit together from the back and kill about 10% earlier.

- Usmash is her go to finishing move and for plenty good reason. It has her lean forward before throwing her head back dramatically with speed, power and a deceptive range. It has no sweet or sour spots and will hit just as hard in front and in back. 115% is the range it'll start killing. This is the one time Luma will actually kill later than Rosalina at 125%, but because this can become a joint attack, together it'll hit for 18% and kill at around 105%.

-Rosalina's aerials are generally long lasting disjoints with lots of power in their sweetspots that can sometimes change the way her body is positioned making it harder to hit her. Luma sticks to his tried and true formula of just hitting fast and hard and it works for him.

-Nair has Rosalina do a feet first flip that travels counter clockwise. The hitbox is a single hit that gets stronger the further it travels around but has no initial front facing hitbox. Luma does a front to back strike similar to his down smash only attacking in the opposite order covering the area Rosalina's Nair doesn't. They can combo into each other at lower percents. Keep in mind that Nair auto cancels FAST. Don't get baited into something by thinking you can punish it as hard as her other aerials. If you see it and you can't punish it while it's active, just move to regain space control. The double assault from the duo on landing isn't worth the attempt.

- Fair has her do a backflip using the same galaxy motif as her F & D smashes. Similar to them the animation startup and end is longer than the actual existence of a hitbox. If it hits it will pull you in for a multi hit attack until the end of the animation before sending you out with decent knock back. Because it's active for so long, lots of RosaLuma players like to edge guard with this as well as a general aerial approach. If you try to beat it, attack from the top or bottom. Luma does what appears to be a shovel hook. Part hook, part uppercut, it'll hit hard and sometimes knock you into Rosalina's still active frames. Luma knocks you up and Rosalina hits you forwards. They won't really be banking on this as a kill move, but it will if she catches you deep enough off stage.

- Bair works similar to our own, stretching her body out for a fierce dropkick like move. It's the same as far as kill potential, but with much less active frames, and a much better trajectory. It'll send you almost directly horizontal making for a dangerous recovery. Luma emulates the back kick about a half second later either comboing you while in hitstun from Rosalina, or covering the area she missed.

- Uair is another one of her really solid kill moves. Like her Utilt but without Luma's SRK-esque sweetspot. This time, Luma seems to knock you into Rosalina's attack knocking you at diagonally upwards angle behind him. This move hits hard, has a disjoint, and is really effective at catching air dodges. It hits harder near the startup and becomes a weaker bounce as the ring travels. She has good air movement so your best bet in avoiding this move, is becoming efficient in B reversals and using all your other momentum changers like Header and Deep Breathing to make it hard for her to follow you and then getting back to the ground quickly. It's strong enough to kill you from Battlefield's top platform at 120%.

-Dair is just the opposite of Uair, only it gets a weak spike on it's sweetspot. Because of similar active frames it can be dragged into you from on high. Luma replaces her uppercut with a speedy stomp. It'll send you out at up killing around 160%. Rosalina might actually save you sometimes by hitting you with the sourspot of her Dair when Luma would have killed.

- NeutralB functions as both her Luma shot and Luma recall. The shot portion's main use will be in sending Luma out to safely attack from a distance, but be warned, this move is extremely powerful and should be respected as a kill move since fully charged it will kill as early as 90% from default positions on Battlefield with no vectoring. It only travels straight horizontally however, so it's not excessively hard to avoid. Recall can only be used if Luma is away from Rosalina or desynced and will instruct Luma to journey back to her side. Neither of them can use any normals during the shot animation, but during Luma's recall he can act as soon as Rosalina can, making for some dirty sneak attacks as he comes back. It has decent recovery however so if you stay close enough to punish, she should wary about using either.


- SideB is her star bits which shoots a flurry of tiny stars from Luma where ever he is for weak damage depending on the number of hits. Not exactly a strong projectile, but it can be sufficiently annoying since Luma can act as turret far away from Rosalina. It's particularly annoying if it hits you while waiting to edgeguard Rosalina. If customs are on, expect it to be substituted often. Decent recovery here too.


- DownB is her Gravitational Pull. Rather than reflecting projectiles, it just sucks them in and takes ownership of them before they disappear. Projectiles can hit you while they are being sucked in. It has excessively long active frames making it really hard to bait and strike with the same projectile. This and Luma are the main reasons Rosalina can play as defensive as she does. If you're looking to bait it out, it's best to use Header at auto cancel range or from Dtilt shots so you can follow it in and punish. Luma can not protect her during this animation as he goes into his own.


- Her UpB is her Launch Star. It's a hitboxless blastoff that can be angled to suit her recovery needs. Covers a considerable distance and recovers fast enough that if you're not prepared for it she can get on stage unpunished. Luma can not protect her with aerials until she goes into free fall. Look to spike it and edge trump every chance you get.

- Rosalina's grab game while not as terrifying as the Ice Climbers is certainly powerful and being a character that inspires defensive gameplay, that makes it even more dangerous than it was already.

- She has one of the extremely few grabs of tall characters that can grab crouching characters taking away the great option WFT usually has when attacking shields.

-Her pivot grab is incredible and will suck you in if you're not careful.

-She also has a Luma lead, dashattack-grab. Where Luma will strike first forcing you to block or popping you up, and she will grab.

- Surprisingly, Luma does not assist her in anyway with her grabs beside the above tech. So no further buffs on her grab due to her special mechanics.

-Many of her grabs put her in perfect position to follow up either her tilts, or her long lasting aerials. DI/VIing away is usually as dangerous as trying to jump over because of this and at early percents it comes down to what player has a better read. Keep your momentum changers in mind at all times to combat this.

- Her pummel has her insultingly slap you in the face with her wand for 2% per smack.

-Uthrow is a weak tossup for 7% that links easily into Utilt, Usmash and Uair at early percentages, and then sets up for air dodge traps at later percents.

- Dthrow is fast floor slam for 9% that just as easily combos into Uair.

- Fthrow is a toss forward that sets up Fair links at early percents and kills at really late percents.(175%)

- Bthrow throws further behind and doesn't have any reasonable links, but kills a bit earlier at 160% and isn't a bad tool for getting you offstage or out of her space.

Her ledge game is nothing too impressive, and without the ledge invincibility on regrab, it's more risky that worth it with her normals. Keep in mind that she has disjoints that can travel through the stage and you should be fine.

Edgeguarding she can be really powerful due to her range and power. Keep an eye on Luma and be sure to punish any attempts she tries personally with your faster aerials. Reverse Header trades are always in your favor.

You can both kill pretty early with reads and set ups but you should be living longer on average.

She can go surprisingly deep with edge guards because her UpB is so good, but because the angle affects her distance and she can't wall jump or cling, we have a much easier time here.

Her aerials have longer active frames but ours tend to be stronger and faster. So air to to air is never a bad idea if you don't already see something out.


On Offense
Seriously, Rosalina is huge. Like, Samus is canonically 6'3. Rosalina is 7'6.

  • On offense, Rosalina will have to play a bit different against WFT. She prefers being on the defense and punishing attempts to break through with Luma or OoS grabbing. Reverse Fair approaches don't allow this with it's shield stabbing and double sided hitbox properties. Attacks in general will hit both sides desyncing Luma and allowing brief moments to put on more and more pressure.
  • FF-Nair is also a decent approach due to it's fast recovery and two hits preventing powershield strategies. Make sure to drop it towards her back so her best option for countering becomes a risky Usmash or Dsmash.
  • Our tilts which excluding Utilt, will put Luma into tumble keeping you safe from his counters, and Ftilt should be your go to move for poking and punishing. If you ever catch Luma out by himself it's usually all it takes to send him offstage and even if it doesn't the tumble desync lets you go in without worry he'll drift back and attack you.
  • She's not phenomenal in air to air fights so it's a good place to challenge her with your faster air game, and formidable air movement. Keeping her in the air and juggled for good damage is always viable.
  • None of her aerials are really good for breaking out of juggles but they can be used for changing her hitbox. In desperation, Dair might come out, but it's not a good trade for her, and a well timed Uair will beat it often. Use it's wavy animation to hit her with it while avoiding Luma. Remember that Nair combos into itself, and further more into Header and Uair and she should be in danger of reaching kill percents every time you touch her.
  • Most players are aware of their air game and generally just want to get back to the ground. Header and Breathing are great for prolong your air time. Look for the air dodges and punish whenever you can.
  • Don't be afraid to go deep to edgeguard her. You can make it back, and any well placed aerial against a character this light is good to land. Header is great too for those that like to safe their jumps, being able to autocancel it makes for a great option select against Gravitational Pull and frees up header for a clean spike hitbox. Uncharged Sun Salutes also do their job in making sure she has to deal with it because it travels so far.
  • Staying on stage is also viable because her UpB lacks a hitbox. Other character try things like Bair stage spikes or FF-Nair but we've got a much better option in reverse Fair, as the back hitbox will spike, and the front hitbox(if we miss) will send her right back out on the back of it's hitbox, or stage spike her on the front.
    • I'd also like to introduce a method I call Fortress Edgeguarding/ Goal Tending. Jump offstage while holding down so you don't grab the ledge and use your doublejump as necessary. When Rosalina tries to UpB to the ledge or past you, stop holding down and immediately SideB towards the stage.
    • The back of header has a hitbox that will spike, and the ball itself will bounce off the stage shooting backwards for any holdback angles. If she somehow makes it to the ledge, you releasing down will have you grab the ledge after, trumping her and putting her in perfect position for a Bair.
  • In general, just waiting for the ledge grab and then trumping is also effective. As is letting her grab the ledge and then dash dancing to cover all of her options.
Combining all of this with tomahawk grabs and good movement to bait preemptive Usmashes and grabs makes for a really frustrating character to play against, let alone defensively .

On Defense
  • Not a situation you see often, Rosalina HAS to approach you if you ever take the lead and go on defense. Unlike a lot of other characters, the duo can't really harass you from a distance. You can duck Luma shot and her projectiles, custom or no. The lag on a Luma shot is a free ftilt to oblivion. SH-Header auto cancels making it a great long distance poking tool and air space controller that Luma shots can't compete with. Custom header shots as well with the added ability of Dtilt shots to bait her downB. Sun Salutation desyncs Luma, and though they're all easily absorbed, you're healing 1% every full charge so it's in your favor to spam it. Luma can't travel otherwise, meaning her only option for taking back the match is approaching.
  • As mentioned, her aerials don't do well serving that purpose so she wants a ground game. Retreating F-tilt covers everything you need to given the space, and a good foxtrot like Wiifit's is a terrible Schrodeinger's Box to see coming at you or running away.
  • All of this on top of SS being shield, roll, charge, grab and spot dodge cancelable makes for an IMMENSELY dangerous character to approach with Rosalina.
  • Oh, and Deep Breathing lowers her damage and knockback while upping our own on a 2% heal that has similar cancel attributes. Get Fit.
Stages and Counterpicks
  • For the most part, any stage Rosalina benefits from, you'll also benefit from. She likes low ceilings because Usmash and Uair will kill earlier. Closer side blastzones also benefit her edge guard. Being light means that these things will also hurt her, but it's never been that much of a concern because of her ability to play so defensively. Cue WFT for the thumbs up of change on that aspect.
  • If you're still having a rougher time than you'd like, counterpick to stages with platforms for better juggle opportunities. Her aerials being so laggy make it really risky for her to chase you and WiiFit having 3 momentum changers means she'll have tons more movement control options. Usmash through platforms is good for both of you, and are similar in kill power only you have invincibility. Her Dair, Utilt and Uair disjoints can hit through the stage so don't get caught landing in a bad place. Remember that you can not FF an aerial through a platform and use juggles to keep her above you.
Specials and Custom MU Usage

Recommended Set:

Code:
3 Sweeping Sun
1 Header
1 Deep Breathing
2 Jumbo Hoops
  • Sweeping sun will unsync Luma from any hit even if she's flying at you fully charged. It will also psuedo-pierce and travel through Luma to put pressure on her shield. The after effect it has when canceled can also bait gravitational pulls. Healing 2% every full shot is also super nice. Best for those preferring to play more on the defensive side of things.
  • Enriched Sun fully charged travels fast enough that it will always be a threat they have to try to absorb preemptively and the large hitbox is always decent for edge guarding and space control since they have to deal with it. Best for the offensive minded player.
  • Sun Salute is good for following fullscreen and baiting gravitational pull. The wind box will also stop UpB attempts past it for the lols. Though this might be the case with the others as well. Because Gravitation Pull is so good, you really only want this Sun if you have to. Otherwise always switch out.
====

  • Jumbo Header she has to absorb and is really great for baiting off stage. Even after absorbing it can still be hit by you so she might even do the work for you. It's also the best header for being in her face(just outside of Luma's range) since it auto cancels at the same height as normal header. Obviously best for offensive play.
  • Weighted is good for edge guarding because of the angle. Again she has to deal with it. And if not it'll hurt and may even kill due to it's power. Since you'll be attacking on high with it and need to cancel the lag with another move, it's a really risky special but can pay off if you're proficient in lag canceling. It's most useful aspect is in stopping her forward dash towards you. Best when you want that defensive advantage of such.
  • Normal header is great for stopping any aerial approach and has a great angle for platforms. It's also great for baiting down b and controlling short hop space with no lag. Best recovery and long range edge options and the only one with documented customs shots for baits and such. Plays a great role defensive and offense.
===
  • Deep Breathing is always great and holds the threat of "I can kill you as early as 60% do you really want to get hit while this is active?" over her head every time it's activated. Also boosts your damage and KB while lowering her own. If you're good at punishing grabs or laggy attacks, this is the DownB for you.
  • Volatile Breathing is your go to for sneaky huge header shots, but otherwise isn't too effective for edgeguarding or catching her off guard. Might find some use as an air dodge bait after aerial strings due to it air stalling and having a huge hitbox. I'd personally pass up on it but it's a nice threat to have in pocket against a character that likes playing so defensively.
  • Steady Breathing is particularly useful in this matchup because of how easy WiiFit racks up damage, and how early Rosalina dies. Since it takes away ALL of her kill potential for 8 seconds, things like Usmash and the like become invitations for Nair combos. You'll only realistically use it about once per stock, but it's really all you need with moves like F-tilt and Uair at your disposal.
===
  • Super Hoops does it's job of getting you back as always. Let's you go deep and chase for players that like to do tricky angles. Go for it if you want to go offstage after her since she likes to go low often.
  • Jumbo Hoops will put on the damage and Luma can't do anything about it on shield. Also lets you chase her offscreen making WiiFit an even more terrifying presence offstage. You can also camp ledges to edge guard while holding down and only releasing once you go into free fall as a decent Fortress strategy. The only OoS UpB option which is nice to have since you'll see her dash attack plenty if she ever goes on the offense.
  • Hoop Hurricane makes your recovery really telegraphed, but the suction aspect might help you if you're having trouble with her edgeguarding. Also does the best job following up on Nair links.
Overall Rosalina is a strong candidate for top tier and is bound to see lots of tournament scenes, but with the powerful tools that put Luma on time out and her typical defensive play on notice, she's going to have a rough time every time a competent WFT shows up. 6/4 WiiFitTrainer.



Fitness Rating: 75


WFT has the advantage in this MU because reverse fairs and double sided hitboxes make it really difficult to play defensively while WiiFit has no problems playing defensive on her end. Outclasses her in racking up damage and keeps up with her when it comes to being able to kill early. Keep her up in the air for racking damage, and be sure to always edgeguard hard against her UpB.
 
Last edited:

ShippoFoxFire

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
1,478
Location
Lincoln Park, New Jersey
Understanding Rosalina and Luma
[/spoiler]
Question, did you take into consideration Rosalina's customs into the matchup?

I feel the only thing that would help her in the matchup is the huge starbit projectile. Rosalina's Side-B which changed the spray into a huge mult-hitting projectile. Now I consider this one preferential for the matchup because it limits Wii Fit's movements and approaches as long as it's out. Sweeping Sun Salutation does not beat it unlike the single shot bit. It forces the camp on wii fit who will lose as sun salutation and header will be immediately down-b'd. With conjunction with the customer neutral that teleports luma to the opponent, it will result in wii fit losing the matchup.

HOWEVER: In combating Rosalina with custom for custom, her Big Hoops will DESTROY Rosalina and Luma. Luma cannot shield this and Wii Fit's hitboxes do so much shield damage to Rosalina, her hurt box will poke out and be hit by AT LEAST the final hit of the up B. Literally that up B is brawl mach tornado in this matchup.

I still think this matchup is slightly in Rosalina's Favor as Wii Fit cannot "crouchgame" as luma can dash attack it from the ground and "'combo" right into Rosalina's grab.
 

⑨ball

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
819
I did. The problem with the huge starbit as a counter for the matchup is that it goes nowhere. Like sitting behind Villager's tree sprout, it's something that can only really be a threat if you're mindlessly charging in. Something WFT doesn't have to do. It's also not a bad option at all for Wii Fit to camp against Rosalina, because if you're in the lead spamming only to have it downB'd, you're essentially healing for free with a move you can use to bait her quite easily. Not the smartest move for the opposition.

Teleport Luma does 1 damage, can not be acted out of immediately, has a set distance it must travel and does not cover the horizontal area the normal Luma shot does. So they'd be trading a space controlling kill move that turns into a turret and disjointed hit box for a chance at being able to camp better. I don't see it happening. Considering how telegraphed this move is because of it's limits, I'd say it's actually pretty bad for the matchup.There is no reason any player who has any kind of reaction time should worry about this move. Especially so for characters on the speedy side since this is pretty much how they'd normally rack up damage anyway.

I mentioned the dash>grab above and it will lose to retreating pivot f-tilt every time and can be mixed up often with WiiFit's phenomenal foxtrot game. And even in the case that you don't use it, you're still putting Rosalina in a position where she's approaching and committing to something incredibly unsafe which is definitely a win for WFT.
 

WiiFitBurger

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
34
One MU I feel is maybe th worst for WFT is kirby

His size makes it so hard to hit him and it's really hard to grab

Anyone have advice?
 
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