1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 225,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  3. Get the Smash Controller on sale this holiday for $26.99 on Amazon! Get the Smash GameCube Controller now!

  4. Use the Smashboards Store to get awesome Smash stuff and support the site, like a Nintendo Controller or the Wii U - Gamecube adaptor ! Check out the inventory in our store and support Smashboards with your purchase today!

"Not to be Taken Orally" Doc Guide by Cyphus *Plus tutorial vid by SmashMac*

Discussion in 'Doctor Mario' started by Cyphus, Sep 17, 2005.

  1. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    The Doc Guide.
    "Not to be Taken Orally..."
    v5.1
    (old man edit: spelling. removed excessive fluff and some cringe-worthy bits. removed some outdated or poor advice. very few, slight updates)

    Um...Howdy. This is a Doc Guide. You will either read it or not. It matters not. Just remember that it you do it will CHANGE YOUR LIFE!


    Table of Contents

    1 About the Author
    2 Terminology (Omitted)
    3 Doc Overview
    4 Ground Attacks
    5 Aerials
    6 Bs
    7 Recovery
    8 Dumb Facts
    9 Comparison to Mario
    10 Advanced Tactics
    11 VS. Character Strats
    12 Turf Advantages
    13 Credits


    -------------------------------------------------------------
    1
    About the Author

    I've been playing Melee since the day it came out have been maining Doc since I unlocked him. I actually hate the puzzle-game Dr.Mario, but found his playstyle fun and he's got several moves with weird properties.
    I bounced around the top 5 PowerRanking of Louisiana til around 2012 when I moved and took some extended breaks. I still get the smash-itch and most recently started playing at locals in Austin TX.
    But enough about me....ON WITH THE DOC.

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    3
    Doc Overview

    Pros and Cons

    Pros
    • Good KO options
    • Strong projectile game: Pills + Cape
    • Crouch-Canceling
    Cons
    • Poor, predictable recovery
    • Lack of a broken move
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    4
    Ground Attacks

    A,A,A Combo 4%, 7%, 6%
    Be mindful when using on fastfallers aor very low percent as it can be crouch-canceled. When opponents are caught, usually their best option is DIing away and DJing. Mix up how many times you Jab (1 or 2 is best) and follow up with a D.Smash or Grab(or necessary dash grab if they DI away). The unpredictability of how long they should shield mixed in with the possible following fast sweep or grab makes this a valuable mindgame tool in his arsenal. Take note to learn what your opponent is accustomed to doing in the situation and abuse it. If they drop their shield after the jabs- D.Smash them. If they shield too long- grab them. And occasionally go for the full Jab combo since nobody ever expects it!


    Up Tilt 10%
    A great anti-air move to take out aerial offenses much like a DragonPunch works in Street Fighter. One of Doc's combo tactics that leads to low chasing juggles and finishers. Its speed is quicker than you think because it hits low before his fist grows, so it can be thrown out immediately after another attack if you are in the opponents face. It can be repeated in bunches, but if the victim DIs well, you'll need to pursue with another attack such as a F.Tilt or shuffled UpAir. Sometimes its better to followup with something safe and guaranteed than attempting to string more attacks that just open risk and invite punishment.

    Forward Tilt 8%
    It is an easy follow up to almost any weak attack or any low juggle(ex.SH UpAirs). I try to occasionally incorporate this move in combination with wavedashing & pills, since it can sneak from a distance after an opponent drops his guard or is stunned. Try not to use in close quarters range at early damage- they can retaliate immediately, especially if they CC'ed. Useful for playing keep away or bully someone horizontally like using it from a WD when someone tech hits away. Used as a poking annoyance, it is unlikely to be countered. You can angle the attack upward to snipe close ShortHoppers or downward to edgeguard. A pretty good move, best thrown out when you seem out of reach.

    Down Tilt 9%
    This move has absolute horrible range and is very weak...but oddly pulls opponents towards you, and behind. It doesn't directly combo from alot or into anything really, but it does have its strange uses. You can CC into this or WD backwards and catch someone with the toes. It catches people off guard and very easy to DI poorly. I use it vs spacies by the edge sometimes just to get them off- usually best after 60%.

    Up Smash
    13-21%(infront)/16-21%(above)
    As Up Smashes go...its weak, and as reach goes...its pathetic. but this isn't a useless move. its a good link from throws to finishers. This is sometimes a better juggling tool than his UpTilt, but really just depends. If they DI out, you might be able to connect a shuffl'd Upair.
    Extremely unique - if you Upsmash someone grounded in front of you, the knock back is reduced but the hitstun is the same -so you have an easy time comboing into F.air at much higher perfects than usual.

    Forward Smash 19-25%
    In addition to having the ability to angle it upwards and downwards, it has 2 small hitboxes inside Doc's pec-muscles! These usually connect to the opponents surprise and they DI poorly. You can also d.throw > f.smash bad DI, but in most cases the F.smash will land as sole punish move. The D.Smash is easier to connect and harder to punish if it goes wrong. I find myself landing this mostly off a reverse WD -slipping outside an aerial.

    Down Smash 18-23%(15-20% in the back)
    This is Doc's key CrouchCanceling technique...best used early in the match, when nubby hits aren't pushing you back. Just hold down, and C-stick smash'em out your way...its a great clear out move, but don't try to abuse the technique since as it can be predictable and won't stuff shine pressure. Its overall one of his best moves since it boasts good range, speed, and power. And its hard to punish since it pushes shielders away most of the time. Do note, that it is NOT however able to hit most characters hanging on the ledge. Use your F.Tilt/Cape instead for that.


    Dash Attack 9%
    The dash attack is your friend. Don't abuse it, and it will serve you well. It hits low so if your opponent's shield is weak it can trip them from under. The earlier you connect with the attack, the more you'll have to wait for the animation to finish and thus...have less followup opportunities. Do you start early to combo easier, but risk advertising the move? In most cases, you can combo into the Slide from a Shuffled UpAir at lower damage and link into Smash Attack.
    Outside of combos, from a pillrush it can be good to throw out when you are in your opponents face. If done correctly you'll pass to the other side of their shield, able to punish them as they attempt a shieldgrab and miss! The dash attack also clashes with sword attacks if timed right, and can put pressure if followed by a Jab or UpTilt, once you have broken in close!


    Grab(3% Headbutt)
    Doc has a slightly poor-reaching grab, and I believe relatively normal speed.

    JC-Grab:
    Upon running...jump, but press Z before the jumping starts so that the grab is reset to a standing grab. This is slightly faster than a normal dash grab and useful for some low-damage chainthrows

    Grabbing can be accomplished by predicting a tech and WDing, being followed after a Jab, or comboed into after a falling air attack. Also remember to WD out of your shield! This is useful in blocking ranged attacks (like Marth's F.Smash, Samus D.Smash, etc) then zooming inward for a grab. Extremely useful!
    If you plan on shieldgrabbing a powerful attack, such as a well placed F.air from Ganon, you may need to walk towards him a tad before shielding. This way, when you block the hit and slide back slightly, you're still in range to grab him. No harm in aiming your shield too to possibly throw off any timing.


    Up Throw 8%
    This is easily followed with an Up Tilt, UpSmash, or Aerial that can be guaranteed.
    You can chain throw (link multiple upthrows in a row) on fox, falco, and captain falcon. The earliest spacies can get out is with no DI + shine/DJ about 55%, so its better to Up.tilt/UpSmash at this point. If they DI away at 55+, shuffle UpAir > D.smash or Jab mixup.
    Otherwise, you can Upthrow > F.air to KO fast fallers at 100+%!

    BackThrow 12%
    If you're by a ledge...just do it, who cares if they make it back? You can damage/edge-guard them so they'll be off the offense. 12% is solid damage from a throw, and you can't go wrong by a ledge.

    Down Throw 6%
    If you notice your opponent mashing, or catch them off guard, it can connect to a F.Smash. As quick as it is, correct DI may not come easy but I don't recommend relying on this. You may chain the D.Throw on floaties at low percent if they DI away, but they can usually DI upwards and DJ out pretty early. Don't get greedy, and chain into an upthrow>upair if you need.
    Most important thing: this throw combos into his F.air against many characters at high percents. A classic, simple vertical KO. Just be ready to turn around and jump quickly if they partial DI behind.(making it more difficult)

    Forward Throw 9%
    If you do it, i advise taking advantage of the breathing room, by either pill spamming or keeping the pressure on. Another use, after F.Throw is to walk forward as they are teching then WD-grab them again. This works extremely well when you throw them by a ledge, where they cannot roll backwards far- a good way to punish their lack of tech options. This is a very fast throw you may want to launch them stage if there's a good chance they will not expect it.


    --------------------------------------------------------
    5
    Aerials

    Up Air 10%
    This follows off of throws and can sometimes be repeated with perfect shuffles or auto-cancels (let the animation end before landing). The move can hit a few different ways and DI makes this tricky to chain multiple UpAirs. Its possible in some situations, but not very reliable. So keep an eye out for any available stronger finishers.
    Upair is a decent move to pass through someone's shield when applying pressure, usually best following a Pill. I like to turn around-Jab them from behind afterward.

    If you're comboing someone in the air go for what you know will connect - don't risk a f.air or f.smash that will get you in trouble. But sometimes they will miss a tech and ready to smash for those. UpAir is also useful to trade hits when someone is above - sometimes worth it for position. Example: Upair trade with Falco's D.air at high percent. Eat the spike, tech forward and pursue him.

    Foward Air
    16%
    Oh yeah! The Doc Punch! Aside from normally hitting in front, it does slightly arc from top to bottom- though the hitbox range is very small in those situations. For the most part this attack is used as a combo finisher, or can be thrown out if you read a jump. As an approach tactic, unless your shuffle is 100% perfect, you will get shield grabbed. The best follow-up from a shielded F.air is the A,A to grab mindgames or the straight up D.Smash. The F.air is Doc's classic finisher from a D.throw at high damage. Use it and abuse it! The F.air also should be noted for having decent frontal reach (albeit brief!). A backwards SH F.air is extremely rewarding for those who approach with shuffled N.airs like Fox who rely on speed over reach.

    Down Air 19%
    The Drill. Great damage, and useful to cover your aerial momentum - either to come down from above and land behind - or when being juggled and trying to make it back down. It has a slight startup but lasts a long time, so can cover his fall well as long as they aren't passing underneath! While hanging on the ledge it is a safe D.Jump stage-returning attack.
    If you catch someone with the full drill in air you can usually combo immediately into another aerial- usually upair/n.air for reliability.

    Back Air 8%
    With reach, speed, little lag, and a low trajectory angle, the B.air is one of his best moves. It can be repeated several times off stage with good timing. Works on everyone on some damage or another, and is fast enough to beat out many other attacks. The attack of choice when edgeguarding off stage. You can WD off the ledge into this, and do a rising B.air to cover it again.
    If you find a lucky opportunity, you can carry someone at low damage away from the stage by releasing it one after another while falling down with them. Almost always you will end up taking out their Double Jump this way. Just make sure to either reserve yours and use it intelligently!
    Also, it's good reach and speed are key in battling superior aerial fighters like Jigs and Peach. Passing through shields is also possible with this, especially with the gained speed of a reverse WD. Whereas staying on one side, you can tip with his shoes to avoid shield grab.

    Neutral air (Sex) 10-14%
    Doc's N.air in air is very odd. instead of losing power the longer it is held out- it gains! Of course you can use it to get out of low juggles, but don't expect any real knockback.
    Approach with a shuffled sex into Jab-grab or mix it up by passing through them. A cool technique is SHing with N.air through projectiles - you can cancel them with the weak early part - and possibly hit the opponent afterward when its strongest!
    Another interesting trick you'll get from it is jumping over the opponent...then falling straight down with it hitting the backside.There are usually better out of shield options (upsmash, upair) but N.air out of shield is quick enough to punish things.


    -------------------------------------------------------------
    6
    B Moves

    Up B Super Jump Punch 13%
    As recovery, you can extend its horizontal distance by holding left/right(whatever you're facing)...making it a 45 degree angle jump. This does reduce the height a lil, so its depends what you need at the time.
    There's few opportunities to risk this in a real battle, but its ok to use on very light targets (exploding right out of your shield...or in combo if it pushes them up and away enough). I use it a lot on platform stages where you can fall through for safety. I also occasionally use it to substitute an UpAir in a high combo but only when they have enough damage so that I'll land before them.

    You can also carry fastfallers with you up to a platform where its easy for them to miss a tech and get a hard punish! Usable on the top platform of Yoshi's and FoD.

    With the advent of UpB Canceling, this is another out-of-shield options although far from safe. It really does not true-combo into anything. Poor DI and being caught off can set things up - potentially a F.air.. but they honestly should be able to double-jump escape.
    If you UpB Ledge-cancel, you have slightly more time to followup (ledge-wavedash) and can actually combo but very difficult and risky.

    Forward B Super Sheet 12%
    The almighty super sheet punishes missiles, chargeshots, lasers, you name it! Of course an intelligent foe won't be projectile spamming against doc...which is still good because its one less thing you have to worry about! It momentarily stops your fall in air so it has some tactical uses in having your opponent misjudge his juggle-timing.
    It edgeguards UpB's...some alot easier than others, like Ganon and Falco, but timing gets difficult for fox illusions (have to catch beginning or end) and Marth's Up. One thing to note is that it's hitbox is slightly lower than you would think so in reflecting someone's UpB from the edge, its better to start it a tiny bit early since they may get "tippered" by the invisible area anyway.

    Down B Doc Tornado 13%
    The faster you press B, the higher the lil' man will spin. Pretty cool, huh? You can control his horizontal trajectory by holding left of right(helpful on recovery, more on that later) This is a bad move to use in a fight and since it takes a sec to load...its good knockback never gets used. Sure its possible to punish laggy moves by moving towads them with it, but aren't you better off with something....better? (aw...nevermind! it just looks so darn cool!)
    One use out if...if your opponent is juggling you and remains groundbased, is as he anticipates your fall (such as a marth waiting to UpTilt...) start it right before you come in range of his attack. You'll stop in air temporarily(mash B 2 or 3 times to slow your fall) he'll miss...then you'll continue your fall with DocTornado still in action, popping them with the last 1 or 2 hits! In case they shield it, drift to their backside to avoid grabs and other easier punishes. Personally...I've found the above tactic very useful especially if you have already double-jumped and used cape stall.

    B Megavitamins 8%
    yeah, I guess you were waiting for this -_- The Megavitamin is great in damage, spam, and settups due to its interesting slow speed (best compared to Guile's Sonic Boom). From the air you can shoot them while moving so you can stay right behind them easier note: they will actually bounce a lil' higher if tossed above SH height)
    Learn to WaveDash and SH shoot these in every possible way. Also Full-Jump Pill to wave-land!
    There is no way to actually give a definite pattern to use them...it depends on how safe you are and whether its even useful in the current position so don't get in the habit of throwing it out any moment of breathing room they are pretty laggy! Never spam them against a character faster than you, because that only invites punishment. Also note, you can shoot them backwards in air (tap back then press B); good for retreating, and to strategically turn around in air -- maybe for a b.air or edge-grab.
     
    #1 Cyphus, Sep 17, 2005
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
    Dude_named_Leon, T-Rae and Jaguar360 like this.
  2. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    7
    Maximizing Doc's Recovery

    First off, if you're going to be sent flying, try DIing more upwards...exchanging your horizontal punishment for vertical potential...Now- Doc Tornado (if you can't press the B button fast, skip this step) IMMEDIATELY following...
    D.jump out of it. Its important to do quickly because after the Tornado he falls basically straight down (he can't drift left/right good), but while from a jump, its better (so the earlier you jump the better). Drift as far as you can and do his SuperJumpPunch(while holding left/right) when you about 45 degree angle from the ledge. An optional cape just before UpBing is also there too to stall.

    DONNOT bother with his tornado if you are below the height of the edge unless you can pull a perfect tornado. Its generally a bad idea to tornado by the edge, as they can drop off and knock you away. Otherwise if they are doing a slow get-up, it may buy you time to UpB and grab it after!

    If you are not sure if you are pressing Down-B fast enough, see if you can fly up with it and land on top the lower platforms of Battlefield. If you can do that consistently, your tornado may help you a tiny bit in recovery. If you can press B fast enough to D.Jump/Attack before you land on the ground again, you're doing it great! Congrats your recovery just got 2% better.

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    8
    Dumb Facts
    (The intermission)

    Taunt Cancel
    If you run towards a ledge and do his taunt, he'll pull out his taunting pill, but then go into his 'balancing' animation for a sec or fall off. He's the only character that can do that. Likewise, you can reverse WD into an Edge-Hog while taunting for the ultimate split-second swag.

    Psychedelics
    If Doc is caped during his taunt the pill he juggles will not be affected and result in landing behind doc instead of him catching it. It vanishes in mid air.

    Phantom Tornando
    The first hit of Doc-Tornado does damage, but will not stun.(like fox's laser)

    UpB Cancel
    Doc is the only character who can CANCEL his own UpB. Try it! First you must start an ANGLED UpB (influence it either left or right). Now soon as you can- whack the control in the opposite horizontal direction. If you did Up/Left B...smash Right. If you did Up/Right B...smash left. This has to be done within a few frames, however if you hit someone- the hitlag gives you a wider window to cancel by a few more!

    This sends opponents upward while you remain grounded. The distance they fly is based off their weight/fall speed (similar to Roy's UpB, Yoshi's D.Tilt, Ness's F.throw etc) .Therefore, this is only combo friendly against big guys and fast fallers. It does not actually guarantee a hit but bad DI and catching someone off guard can result in capitalizing on how they react.

    Prescription Pectorals
    Doc's F.smash has 2 tiny hitboxes where his chest muscles are! Sometimes you can combo into it where they land behind the hand and this can send them at an unexpected angle.

    Crazy Sex
    Doc has the only N.air that starts weak, and grows in strength the longer it is held out. All others, come out strong then soften.

    Double SH Aerial
    It is possible to sneak in 2 aerial attacks in a single SH It requires an immediate B.Air from a SH, then a N.air right before you land. I can only assume its potential use would be hitting someone who shielded the first and dropped their guard afterward. Not really useful.

    Fact
    Doc is a ninja

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    9
    Comparison to Mario


    Doc's F.Smash is very short reached but powerful no matter how it hits...if Mario's is poorly spaced, it's strength is weak- though his has much better reach. All in all, Mario has a much better F.Smash.

    In version 1.01 and 1.02 of Melee, Doc is slightly heavier (due to Marios weight being lessened)
    Hit for hit, Doc's attacks totalled up, deal more percent than Marios.

    Many of Mario's attack keep people more vertical, allowing him better combo opportunities: UpTilt and UpAir combo much better than Doc's. However Doc's moves push people further horizontally - so he has an easier time bullying off stage.

    Mario's Cape brings him up some (but you knew that) and covers greater horizontal distance, while Doc's covers greater vertical distance. This makes Doc's better for recoveries coming directly under (Marth's UpB) whereas Mario's is easier to catch fox/falco further off stage while they are UpBing.

    Mario has a WallJump. Doc doesn't.
    Mario does more backflips during his backward D.Jump

    Their attacks all come out at the exact same time (minus A,A,A) however...
    Mario has *less lag* when landing with aerials. This means they provide him more opportunities to escape potential punishes (shield grab, etc), and he is able to combo off shuffles easier.

    Similarly to Doc's UpB Cancel, Mario has his own UpB Glitch that allows him to WallJump after using it.


    The differences can be summed up in short: Doc has better KO opportunities and a better projectile...at the cost of worse recovery, combos,and laggier aerials. Draw Game, imo. Some matchups may favor one over the other slightly.

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    10
    Advanced Tactics

    Note: megavitamins are easier to pillrush (approaching the enemy behind a pill), if they are dropped from air. They will bounce higher if dropped from full jump height. The reason SH pills are easier to follow then grounded pills, is because you can drift forward as you SH, and already be moving behind it before you even run- and likewise retreat with a SH pill so you space while you guard.

    Megavitamin Tricks

    Placebo
    Full jump Pill approach to reverse Wave-land. Drop a pill at your height, then WD backwards instead of landing straight down. This allows you to observe how your opponent will react when he thinks he has an opportunity to attack.
    This is really just moving in a triangular pattern with spam. Don't allow yourself to get too close: the pill is only going to stop 1 weak attack! Overall not something to spam, best used in the beginning of a fight to test the waters with a fresh opponent.

    Decoy Vitamin
    This is for foes who prefer shielding the pill. Basically you're WDing or dash jumpcanceling into a grab -Immediately following the pill impact. This is best when you set them up after a couple Placebos. This is actually quite rare to work, and commonly gets Doc grabbed himself...so it should only be used after you put them in the habit to expect attack followups!

    Take 2 and Call Me in the Morning
    Jump, pill, d.jump, pill. Consider doing this only when theres a ton of space. Its mainly to stall when you're hunting for openings bait them to jump over.

    Taking Offense From the Spam-PILLRUSHES!!

    There are basically 2 pill settups that you can combo off of...SH pill. And full jump pill. SH pill is slightly safer, while jump pill leaves you with no lag so you might get a stronger-slower attack in afterward.
    After a SH pill you can do any of the following...

    WD Grab: Rarely does it work, but payoff is huge, depending on your grab combos.

    DashAttack: the later you hit them with it, the more time you'll have to combo off of it. Aerials and tilts are easy, but smashes are possible too.

    FullJ ump Pill: this will have the pills hit near the same time so try to aim on top their head/shield if you're passing over them, usually best to fall with a b.air for continued pressure/coverage.

    *run SH...*
    DocPunch: shuffle PERFECTLY or get shield grabbed. Great pressure tool in chipping their shield if timed into the Jab to Grab mind games or straight up D.Smash!

    SexKick/Upair: this can be your quickest followup and most reliable since it is the safest, and easiest to pass through them with.

    Those were all just examples...WD to D.Smash, or maybe just a F.Tilt. Simple WD-Jab can be a surprise. Use your head and pay attention to your available time, their damage, and always mix it up.


    You really need to incorporate all of Doc's pill tricks into one chaotic game. Depending on one settup will lead to predictability, and even the best maze of vitamins can be punished. Solely turtling does not work versus good players, so master WDing and SHing into offenses from your defenses!

    Fleeing the Drug Scene
    While running away, jump and tap in the opposite horizontal direction..., THEN press B. You'll turn around in mid-air and shoot a pill behind you! Great to slow down their chase, if you need more room.

    Immune System
    If you're sent high into the air off the stage, but relatively close with plenty extra time, throw a pill or two towards the edge while you're drifting towards it. Don't risk it when you get very close though since ranged moves and high priority b.airs/SexKicks will eat right though it and knock you away.

    Sometimes they will shield the pill and susceptible to you landing with a safe UpAir also on shield. I prefer to use this moment to escape the bad position - roll or run inside to regain center.

    Sometimes to increase your odds of evading a final blow, its best to admit defeat and airdodge right when you get close to them and hope for the best. Doc owns when he can control the fight from the center, but don't get fancy with unnecessary recovery...its just not worth it for Doc.



    Getting Back On

    Tornado Stalling
    Many times you can make it back to stage with your UpB and grab the edge...BUT your opponent WDes off and steals it! To buy yourself some time til their their invincibility wears off...Doc Tornado. After flying up...and starting to descend downward, UpB to push them out of the way and grab it. Cape also works, but won't buy as much time. Your foe does have the option of dropping off and hitting you but there's really nothing you can do...since you were screed anyway, it doesn't hurt to try!

    Attack Options
    If you're grabbing the ledge, you can fast fall out of your grip, but immediately DJ back onto the platform with an attack like DocPunch (using his little time of invincibly wisely) It is not uncommon for people to expect this, and SH backwards and hit you while you miss or just shieldgrab...so play as safe as you can. UpAir is quicker but your safest attack is probably a rising DrillKick. The invincibility plus the lasting attack frames makes a very safe landing if they are close enough.
    Or, if you have the space, you can fall, DJ shoot a pill, and regrab the edge without ever moving left or right. Obviously, don't do this if they are very close. Either way, its usually just a better idea to get the hell back on and not get cocky.

    Ledge Wavedash
    Immediately after grabbing the ledge, drop from it, jump just over and quickly WD across...STILL BEING INVINCIBLE and able to get a free attack...Jab is most common because of its speed and follow up options...but downsmash and N.air work pretty good too.



    Edge Guarding

    Hogging and Back Kicking
    Edge-hogging is the easiest way to prevent someone from grabbing the ledge. This is done quickest by facing awayWDing backwards, and briefly fast-falling to grab it sooner. Or if you're further away, dash and jump towards the edge and Cape backwards(or shoot a pill backwards) to change your direction mid-air and land right into the grab!
    If you successfully protected the edge, but they landed ontop you can let go and DJ back on with a DocPunch. But if you need to reset your invincibility frames, let go of the edge, DJ and grab it again a moment before your foe gets close enough to grab it himself-that way they are screwed.

    From the hanging position you can also fall off or jump off with a Back Air and push the fool away. If its not good enough you can always DJ using another one, but be sure to not stray TOO far, because you need to get back yourself! You'll have more success surprisingly them with it but reverse WDing off stage into a b.air you seem further away to them, but it covers distance quickly.

    Caping
    Staying atop you have your Super Sheet (aka cape) to many UpBs. Ganon, Falco, Samus, etc are easy to cape, assuming they are UpBing from below the ledge. You can cape horizontal recoveries but they usually have more options/angles and its cape is a bit slow and is a brief hitbox so it can be easy to misjudge.

    F.Tilting
    F.Tilt is a good edgeguarding tool. It has great reach, priority, and because it can be angled, is useful in sniping those trying to recover from below by tipping the edge, such as Link, Kirby, and Bowser. This is your best move to knock somebody back who is trying to just make it back with their 2nd jump.

    UpTilting
    Uptilt starts very low, and comes out immediately. It may take a while to reach above your head...but you are edgeguarding, not defending aerial combat. Uptilt will send the opponent backwards at a low angle this way. Most useful in forward moving recoveries like Fox Illusion, which it can beat out at close/far range. Its valuable for those split second reflexes where you need something low and immediate.


    The Money Shot
    Difficult, yet deadly...its also possible to land a B.air on the tip of the edge and somewhat...slide off automatically...allowing you a 2nd b.air immediately! This can act like a Vertical Wall Of Pain, since you can carry the opponent downward and kill their 2nd jump with a rising 3rd B.air, then hog the edge yourself even at ridiculously low damage

    Pills
    Pills can be great edgeguarding tools under the right circumstances. For one...Slow starting recoveries like Falco and Ness can be destroyed by a single pill. Perfect pill aiming can also complicate slow recoveries, like Samus. With experience you can anticipate Fox/Falco illusions and intercept them with a pill, thus allowing you ready to Cape their remaining option-UpB from below the level.



    Close Quarter Combat

    SH Aerial WD
    Its possible to SH B.air and WD the landing, instead of just landing. The main use of this comes from if you're shielding an attack while your back is turned. First you SH B.air out your shield then Waveland pursue their trajectory.


    Reverse WD-F.Smash
    This tactic isn't very complicated, but its occasionally useful: wavedash into F.Smash(or D.Smash)...it sounds simple...and it is. Nothing better to punish opponents who become predictable in their offenses.


    The Importance of Feinting
    If you're having trouble finding an opening, you're not alone. Doc doesn't have an easy time since his facing F.air is slow and also being sort of floaty. Feinting (or faking them out) helps.
    Running and jumping with enough distance leads people to anticipate an offense. Its your job to know how close you can get without putting yourself at risk, but getting any reaction out of them that doesn't harm you. Don't judge off one instance, but be aware we're all human and have habits- especially during stressful sets.

    The more unorthodox you can move (without getting hit) the less predictable you become and the more pressure you create for your opponent to flinch. Do not underestimate the power of getting inside your opponents head. Its what separates 2 people with the same technical skills.
     
    #2 Cyphus, Sep 17, 2005
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  3. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    11
    VS. Character Strats
    Below are some basic rundowns on what might help you when fighting each character. I don't claim to be anywhere near perfect, nor do I have tons of experience fighting some of the lower characters...but this is the best help I can presently offer. I hope you find some of the info useful!!



    Fox
    There are extra precautions needed when pilling Fox. By spamming them in air you only give him opportunity to laser you, run under, or find an opportunity to drop with b.airs and punish you. Keep your pillrushes safe as possible. Keep in mind your cape to defend against his laser spam, but realistically a precise fox should keep the projectile battle even. Fox's drill shine combos leave no room for shield grabbing, so you are better off retreating or looking for trades.
    Conserve your shield well, occasionally lightshield as well as aiming your shield upwards to possibly throw off his L-cancel timing which may grant you a lucky shieldgrab! Don't drop your shield too early, either, since the 1-frame reflector will inevitably follow (along with his DJ escape). Sometimes rolling is your best option, so keep in mind your own patterns and try not to roll the same way repeatedly.

    The only thing you have over Fox is horizontal reach, but it still doesn't count as anything too useful because of his speed. When he comes down towards you, reverse WD and throw out an occasional F.Tilt or if you anticipate the moment of his offense you can UpTilt or UpAir to exchange hits. Either way, the safest move is to retreat and catch him as he approaches from the air.

    You can chain upthrow him from 20% easily, but using JC'd grabs you can go as early as 0% and then normal dash grab all the way to 55-60%. From there, a shuffled UpAir into D.Smash is your standard finish. Shuffled UpAir-Jab-grab is also a possibility but only if they are low enough to the ground.If they don't DI the UpThrow at 50+%, UpTilt to followup. At higher percents, UpThrow links beautifully into a F.air as well, which if he DIs, usually sends him off the level horizontally. Speaking of which, be wary to DI when he wants to UpThrow you as well, into his UpAerial. Double Jump away immediately and use your D.air to return back to the ground from a safer angle.

    You want to fight Fox as close to the ground as you can. Because of his fallspeed, he's easiest to KO by knocking him off the sides. While edgeguarding, Instead of just waiting to Cape...anticipate the Illusion. Up and Forward tilt may knock Fox right out of his illusion and below the ledge...then you can cape his UpB since its much easier. If Fox is out the screen but still able to make it back, a full jump pill off the stage can interrupt his Illusion recovery. Then fox is left only with the option to UpB from under the level. If he UpBed perfectly upwar,) charge your F.Smash as he comes back down.

    If you're off the ledge, watch for him to drop into a ShineSpike. Its most common for fox to do this as he would anticipate your D.Jump since most people don't attack during it. Keep in mind to UpAir as you DJ for safety, or UpB extra early. This will not broadcast you're recovery as much and add alot more risk to a fox player who now must sink lower and possibly be coin spiked under the level. In recovering from above, watch for his fast B.air and SexKick through aerial pills - this really hurts. Like many characters, if he simply edgehogs and attacks with a rising B.air, Doc is generally dead. Consider a good moment to airdodge behind his b.air and hope for the best. On FD, the fight is pretty fair, but platforms ruin Doc's combos and chainthrow, and let Fox's lightning fast jumps and UpAir combos reign unmatchable. You will need to rely more on your B.air for spacing and low percent edgeguarding to increase your chances on smaller/platform levels.



    Falco
    Though the combo mechanics you'd use with Fox basically apply with Falco, it is a very different fight. SHL(short hop laser), being his single most important staple, is at least weakened in the spam-zone due to your cape. Although it is still a bit too slow in defending against close lasers (especially if he is merely a SH from your face), sometimes if you spam the cape the Falco will temporarily stop lasering -which is your chance.

    An exception to the rule, Full Jump Pills can be most useful, since it allows you to projectile right above his. Just be sure do this when you have noticeable distance, and be ready to fall with your cape to send his own lasers back, as well. Anytime you are caught above him, DrillKick is a fairly prioritizing move that should go through anything he has. Your best reaching attacks like your D.Smash, F.Tilt, and BackAir need to be focused on. A good Falco will also use his SHL to approach you into a grab if you shield too much. If he approaches you with a laser an inch from your face, you can actually grab him first.

    Realistically like fox, he can be unshield-grabbable. While you defend on the ground, don't drop your shield too early since the reflector soon follows. Aiming your shield upwards might throw off his LCing slightly though. Apply the same chainthrowing rules as above (UpThrow to 55-60% shuffled UPAir-D.Smash or UpTilt F.air or even shuffled UpAir-Jab-DashGrab). Falco will rely on his sex kick/D.air>shine>DJ as his offense and combo starters. DI left/right to at least make him work for his pillar combos and UpAir/Sex if you regain control right before being hit again. Be ready to backwards WD into F.Tilts (or lucky F.Smashes) or exchange blows with your UpTilt here.
    At higher damages UpThrow to DocPunch (with the possible UpSmash/UpTilt in between).

    When recovering, encourage yourself to Tornado in clear sight of potential lasers. The slight stun barely moves you, and allows you to tornado again, increasing your distance! Also take notice for Falco's positioning for a Spike if he's already in position. If you have time, Cape to stall.
    In the end, if his D.air is coming as you UpB, Hold L to automatically tech against the side, and UpB immediately to push him the hell away and land back on safe ground. Otherwise, you can tech, fall below and try again.
    If you hold Up when teching - you'll tech jump too far away from the stage! Immediately B.air to cut momentum or use a desperate UpB early.

    Like against Fox, Doc is at worse odds when platforms are involved. They grant Falco longer and stronger spikeshine combos, and cause Doc to lose control of the match following his own throws. WDing off the platforms with air attacks can come in handy and in addition with horizontally bully attacks, might reward you a possible early KO.


    Sheik
    Be careful pilling since needles tear through and punish Doc. Caping them, albeit hard as hell, basically accomplishes nothing anyway. Full Jump pills can be your only option to approach a Sheik, or at the least lure her to you. Her F.Tilt was made to cancel out pills, but as long as your remain pitching and not batting, be very aware the distance. Do not approach her from heights. Her grab range is huge and her UpAir and F.air will beat you to the punch. Use your shuffled Sex to close the gap and either pass through her or time it into the Jab.You'll want to use your D.Smash a lot to crouch-cancel any tilts are aerials at low perce

    If you do get grabbed, mix up your DI in response to her D.throw, and Sex Kick as soon as possible to hopefully exchange hits with her Tilts. DIing upwards and towards her may let you double-jump out at mid-percents, but she pretty much has a guaranteed followup anyway. DIing away at low percent means she can dash > re-grab you.
    If you're way above her, feint with DJ and fall with your D.air to increase your odds of getting past her UpAirs. DI away from tilts, but be immediate to respond to F.airs with upwards DI, unless of course you're at very low percents, since you might get relaunched by staying close.

    Doc can actually chain-down throw Sheik if she only DIs horizontally. 20% seems to be less risky damage to start at. Sheik can DI diagonally upwards and DJ out, so its usually best to only chain 1-2x before turning it into a more secure UpThrow instead- which sets up well for air attacks.
    D.throw links into shuffled F.air at higher percents or a direct F.Smash if you were too fast for them to DI properly, but sadly neither are true finishers. UpAirs are good against Sheik if she is above. She actually isn't comboed well, but she is slightly more vulnerable than most, when she is above the opponent because she doesn't have a fast d.air.
    Approaching her can be very hard because her hitboxes flow so smoothly. Its harder to benefit from trades too, so you really have to keep momentum when you have it. Look for opportunities where you can sneak a quick UpAIr as this may be all you can do sometimes- but make sure to keep momentum off it.

    Her needles destroy your recovery so reserve your DJ when you are out of her sight. Also take note for her aerial needles. Her B.air not only cuts through pills and edgeguards completely, but also is ideal in falling from the edgehog position if you decide to tornado stall, etc. In recovering from height, toss a pill or two but be wary to airdodge.
    If she is off the level a good distance, reverse WD, SH off, and hunt her down for a B.air. If not...you're better off simply hogging and feinting for a B.air, by letting go and DJing back into the grab to reset your invincibility as she Teleport above and back on. If there is little time, you can just let go and DJ F.air her as you land back on. But if have time, you can jump on stage while caping (extra damage) and be ready to B.throw her off or F.Smash (with a slight charge if you can afford it). If in fact she is only capable of grabbing the edge from her teleport's 2nd phase, she is easily caped right as she reappears before she grabs on!


    Marth
    Anytime you have the space, Pill the hell out of Marth. He can easily swipe them away and come closer, but at this point you are still funneling his approach. WD>F.Tilt is an invaluable tool against a defensive Marth, if timed perfectly from a SH'd pill -since he may cancel the pill and eat the punishment. Force Marth to come towards you if you have the room -- but also don't corner and trap yourself in the air!

    If you just try to approach him, he will space himself to outreach you, but if you can get him to progress forward, and at the same time you sneak in, you can get inside his range. Reverse WD SH pills are your best bet. If Marth goes aerial, dash close (baiting for his F.air) and open your shield. Work as many safe feints and retreats as you can to make your offensive rushes less expected.
    You want him to think he will catch you off guard with a dash grab. But stay calm and throw out jabs and f.tilts at close range - otherwise move out of his dash-dance game range, as this is really his zone and you need to be either further or closer!

    If his shield grows weak, your dash attack will trip him, and combo into an UpTilt or F.air at higher damage. The dash also clashes with his D.tilt so it can be a good approach for a ground-defensive Marth, if you follow up immediately with a CCed D.Smash or Jab. Jab puts Marth in the air for a Grab (so he might DI>DJ out or F.air) so mix up single and 2 hits and mind his usual escape habit!!
    If you can bait him into F.Smashing, shield it and WD out of your shield into a D.Smash/Grab. At low damages D.throw links well into you UpTilt, and UpAir, and possible D.air> Up/B.air/Sex for nice damage. UpThrow is even easier to get a clean SH UpAir at beginning percents. At mid damage its possible to shuffle UpAirs under him but his percent and your distance and speed have to be perfect or he will escape. 40-50% is your best odds at starting the chain. But take note to Sex as well, if you are close and don't think UpAir will come out in time. The slightest difference in speed is worth substituting than risking his escape. At 90% and above, D.throw works well into a F.air KO. Keep in mind to possibly turn around and jump the other way, if he slight-DIs behind you (which is his smartest option).

    When you're grabbed, be quick to DI in the direction of his throws to put as much distance from him, since F.Smash connects easily from bad DI. If you're thrown up, his UpTilt and UpAirs are going to wreck you. DI *towards* uptilt to get sucked in if you need (DIing away can get you stuck in same spot oddly enough). If you shield a close-ranged air attack, but can't shieldgrab because he's moving to the other side, jump out your shield and hit him with B.air or Sex (or maybe even a safe UpB if you can).
    If you get hit by the F.Smash, you can also DI down and tech roll across the level, but if you're close to the edge its better to diagonally DI up and towards him. Even if you are thrown off the level, DI away and recovery from below/above. If not, an early F.Smash death at 40% is not something to be proud of.

    While recovering from the air, pills can be useful in canceling out his F.Smash/tilt edgeguard, but they won't protect you from his aerials well. It you can get past his range, feint like you're going for the edge by fastfall and airdodge behind him. Other than that, you are safer going for the edge, from underneath. Hold L soon as you UpB to tech off the side and either: UpB immediately again if he is close enough to be hit, or let yourself fall and try to sweetspot the edge again and repeat.

    It can be hard to B.air edgeguard him, but faking edgeguard attempts works great since he is floaty. Jump backwards towards him, then return to the edge. If you get too close he's gonna UpB early to hit you with the weak part- but still grab the edge. If he is recovering from below, simply edgehog and wait to see if he makes it back on top. If so, a rising F.air works well, as with D.throw to F.air if you pulled yourself up as he landed on top since he is vulnerable during his lag. On small, platform levels you are UpTilt and F.Smash target practice, as with the pill being tactically weakened so you will want to stay under Marth, and be ready to jump out your shield with attacks in response to his.



    Peach
    Because Peach is a larger character and suffers a slow moving jump, she is relies more on using the Float to approach around pills and use her large hitboxes to move through them. N.air, DashAttack, B.air, and Turnips will be her main tools in quickly moving through pills. Be very cautious when trading, as she has very high priority. Cape distanced turnips but learn to catch them with Z in the air and throw back - maybe after a pill setup. If she has a turnip in hand, your safest approach is to sexkick through her, since she won't be able to shield grab and it'll go through the turnip. With all things considered, you want to attack her in between her moves- not during.

    Doc cannot take on Peach head on, but if you can get under it is possible to combo her very well. Peach float-cancels her aerials to have virtually no lag between them and the possible Jabs, D.Smash, or Grab afterward. So shieldgrabbing a peach doesn't come easily, and often times just results in a weak shield or you getting grabbed yourself. Immediate F.throws are most common from her, so be ready to DI upward, but D.throw into a possible followup is sometimes used too. Your best chances of grabbing her will be from your Jabs at mid percent. D.throw into shuffles or UpTilt at low percents, and F.airs at 90% and above. Repeated shuffled UpAirs are possible around 40-50%, but her Sex Kick breaks her out often, so end your combo with whats most reliable or bait the n.air and shield it.

    UpB can also be useful after an UpAir if no other attack could connect. If platforms are involved, fall below them for safety after this. Following her approaches, her D.Smash will be used. Punish her D.Smash by SHing over it with a F.air if she uses it habitually after landing. Do not ever CC this, because you will absorb multiple hits from it! D.Smash is a good clearout move against her, but be careful not to instinctively CC it. Your B.air is your best tool against her, since it outreaches her, and can be spaced well enough so that its hard for her to approach through.

    If she floats off the edge to hit you with a B/F.air, UpB early into her, if you can make it to the ledge. Or fastfall under her if you can make it around. When she's off the ledge at approachable height...a feint, a couple B.airs can be enough to work into an edgehog KO. Pills are decent distractions to her recovery if she is floating back from a lower height, too. If you cape her parasol before its finished, she'll be stunned (based on damage) and fall for a while before able to UpB again. Repeating this process can inevitably result in good damage racking and eventually a "cape spike" (albiet pretty rare since Peach *shouldn't* be recovering fro mbelow).
    Most of the time, you will have to rely on your F.air for the vertical KO, but keep in mind an off-stage flying N.air, as well as a surprise UpSmash out of your shield at very high percents.




    Capt.Falcon
    Pillrushing will be difficult because of his crazy ground and air speed. Don't be in the air near him because he can cut through pills easily and juggle you across and prevent you from getting back on the ground. Pills from distance work well enough to force him through with n.airs or full jumps. Your B.air, F.Tilt, and D.Smash will help reduce his pressure game on you.
    Its easy for Capt to run away from Doc and force him to get closer, but remember that doesn't mean you have to become anxious and attack him directly. Your B.air and Pills are enough to force him to get close as long as you remain patient. This includes his dash dance game, too. Keep him busy, without putting yourself at risk. And be wary for knees and never attempt to UpTilt Capt as an anti-air defense; if that trades with D.air or F.air its bad news!

    Because of his fallspeed and size he's easy to horizontally escape combos and tech roll away. At early damages, focus more on punishing with pokes until he's at higher percent. Shield grabbing won't come easy but you can still grab him with good WDing and Jabing. Rolling out your shield can be a useful tool when you're pressured with his shuffle-jab-grab game, but don't over do it. UpSmashing out of your shield actually works very well versus Capt, since he is constantly shuffling behind you, and UpSmash can sometimes reach.

    At any point its possible to chainthrow him with UpThrow to around 60%. But it is alot more difficult than Fox/Falco, because Capt is heavier and takes longer to throw- so your forced to wait half a second before dash grabing.(The biggest mistake is trying to dash too early and it not coming out) JumpCanceled grabs are easier, but still quite hard. Either way, its better to finish him with a clean WD Smash or UpTilt to F.air. Upthrow also surprisingly link to F.air at mid-high damage. Though this isn't a large combo, its instinctive for him to DI horizontally the F.air, which sets him up for edgeguarding!
    Chances are though, you'll be getting grabbed more than him. He can chainthrow you with D.Throw at early percent, but in addition to DIing away, remember to possibly UpAir as you regain control to stop a potential oncoming knee! (Or UpB if you're certain he's coming- or have a platform to escale to). DIing Up up just gives him an easier time kneeing you, but it may occasionally come as unexpected. Anticipate his Jab to reset you in the air for his dash grab, and Sex Kick if possible.

    If he is knocked away, WD and don't give him breathing room. Once you have him off the stage, edgeguarding is relatively simple. Obviously enough, if he's below the level the cape will wreck his UpB, but more often he will have DIed upwards and be less predictable because of how he can quickly move in one direction then lean back. Your B.air will take him out easily, but expect him to expect it and try to DJ over it. Feint a B.air and force him to DJ or UpB as his last resort and send him back down with another B.air. At that point its only a matter of time, til he gets caped or edgehogged. Capt can grab the edge UpBing backwards though, so if he's still making it back, you might have time to sneak in a f/dilt.

    Assuming you didn't get hit by a knee by a ledge, be extra careful in falling pills because of his UpAir. You don't have anything to beat that, so airdodging may be your only hope. And if you're horizontal to the edge he may shuffle off into distanced UpAir (or even MoonJump off into a B.air). You're usually safer recovering from low vs Falcon but don't go out of your way to get there.



    IceClimbers
    Safe pillspam as much as possible. Nana's delayed reactions cause her to be projectile practice, and forces Popo to play slower to keep her safe. Retreating low pills guard the ground beautifully from their WD approaches. Force them to chase you, because they have to stop and treat each pill one at a time. Their airgame is very bad and your B.air outreaches them greatly. And you'll want to tip with range as much as possible to prevent getting shieldgrabbed by them (which is fatal). Your sex kick serves well in approaching, but try not to land right in front. If so, follow into Jabs or D.Smash.
    Among their desynchs the most common to look out for are SideStep-to-Nana-IceShot (allowing Popo to dash behind the IceShot to grab someone who shields it), Backwards-Roll-to-Nana-Blizzard (a defense that lets Popo dash in for a grab if the oponent rushes at that moment), and DashDance-to-Duck-to-Nana-Blizzard sharing properties of the previous but better as a mindgame for a turtling foe. You have one sole focus in this match, and that is not to get grabbed.

    If you're at early enough damage when you get grabbed, mash out quickly to break out. If not, the classic combo is for Nana to Blizzard you while Popo Headbutts, and then be thrown down into a Nana smash attack. Pay attention to which smash attack is coming out, and DI accordingly. Upward DI for D.Smash and F.Smash, and DI away from UpSmash. Also possible is for you to be chainthrown with D.throw and Nana's D.air intercepting your trajectory back in front of Popo. Unless perfect timing is executed, you can DI towards Popo, and land behind him and possibly escape from there, but its not guaranteed.
    If you grab one of them, immediately B.Throw, spinning and hitting the other climber and temporarily separating them severly. At this point...kill Nana. Smash her in the opposite direction of Popo, and if you can get her off the level, B.air is easily landed on her.At higher damages, D.throw also works well into a F.air KO on Popo, too. If Popo is by himself, don't underestimate him. Since now he has nothing to lose- lone Popos tend to be played a little faster and feint oriented. Keep him away with pills, and catch him off guard with WD F.Tilts.

    Once off the level, he relies on his Forward B to recover, so look for windows to B.air and trick him into airdodging or recovering with you waiting on the level to D.throw-F.air and your F.Tilt will aid if he stalls in air to tip the edge. IceClimbers usually edgeguard by having Popo edgehog, and pull himself up as you recover and have Nana D.Smash at that moment for double the chances of keeping you away. Interestingly enough, they can't really edgeguard by attacking off the level though...so if you can cape or tornado as Popo pulls himself up, then UpB (and be ready to tech hit off the side and re-recover) then you have a shot at making it back. From above, pills and D.air work well enough to get back down, just watch out for wave smashes. This is one of the least complex fights for Doc, and can be in his favor.



    Samus
    Another character who pills are affective against because of her size and floaty jump. She doesn't have a particular pill-destroyer move on the ground so expect a mix of F.Tiling and shielding. Her missiles reach further than your pills, so on big levels, you will have to approach at least a little...and her chargeshot shot also puts pressure on Doc to stay even closer so she doesn't keep charging up her blast. Keep an extra eye on her missiles when pilling, because careless mistakes easily happen if you're concentrating just on your pills. Mix up your defenses to her missiles so that she doesn't punish you for patterns.
    Shielding is extra useful against Samus because her grab sucks. If you shield the missiles too much though, your asking to get grappled from a missile rush, and if you cape the missiles too much your asking to get dash attacked through.Your F.Tilt also works nicely to cancel out missiles out as well as simply jumping over them, but avoid racing over missiles to her as fast as you can. Her reverse WD F.Smash works great against Doc's approach as well as Sex Kicking him out of the air.

    You may also eat an UpB out her shield, to substitute for her lack of a good shieldgrab. SexKick works good to close the gap, also cutting through predicted missiles, beautifully. Follow into Jabs to open her up and grabs and D.Smash to keep the pressure on her, but be wary of her CCed D.Smash. Be ready to DI upwards so that you don't get sucked horizontally into a low percent death. He roll is bad so she will rely more heavily on her WDing and sidesteps. Her sidestep also works in aiding for her fast, reaching D.Smash. Sometimes not attacking at all and shielding in her face can bait her into instinctively D.Smashing and grant you a WD D.Smash/Grab. In that situation just be ready to roll towards her if she grapples.

    D.throw her into aerials, but at early damage don't rely on shuffled UpAir combos because she will retaliate with her Sex Kick before you can follow up with your 2nd UpAir, even though she's positioned correctly. Its better to just hit her with what leaves you the most safe...like a rising Sex or B.air then pill afterward, until she is at mid percents. Doc's other throws are pretty useless against Samus, really. In Fact D.throw really isn't awesome by any means, until around 100% for that F.air, which needs to be carefully executed with the possible immediate DJ (for height issues) or a last minute decision to exchange it for an UpAir when the F.air is most likely not going to come out in time.
    Likewise, her grabs are nothing to brag about either, but her most common will be D.throw to F.Smash/Sex Kick. So DI away from the throw, then DI Upwards the KO move at high damage. Favorite places for her to charge shot is when she is off the level (when you would normally least expect it) and in response to a predicted shuffled. Don't spam the cape, when samus has a charge shot filled, because she can hit you during your cape's lag at a close distance. And its always better to just shield it on the ground, if you're not sure your cape will come out in time.

    Feinting with lots of pills and WDs can encourage Samus to go aerial. Don't challenge her there, unless you can punish a mistake with a quick B.air. For the norm though, you want to worry about feeding her damage by damage by sticking and running until she is ready to be KOed. Unless you're far away, you should stay grounded and play off her mistakes instead of taking unneccessary offensive risks. By a ledge, a shuffled sex or D.Smash work well to knock her off the level. Occasional WD-F.Tilts from a distance are great wake-up calls to further bully her horizontally.
    Once she's off, pills can be useful since her recovery is incredibly slow. Unless she is above the stage, pills can be tossed into the edge tip to bounce off and keep some height to force her lower than the level Pills over the edge may possibly interupt graple beam attemps. Either way, her UpB is very easy to cape, and jumping off with the cape works well at stopping a predicted grapple beam, too.
    Your B.airs are usually avoided since she can recover low enough to avoid them at first, but they're deffinately still worth a try because she is a slow moving target, outside her option to fastfall to avoid them. Edgehogging can be difficult to accomplish against her manipulative recovery, but if you can stall it long enough your F.air suffices nicely to punish her if she lands ontop.
    When you're off the level, missles will come before her tradional anti-doc edgeguarding tool- the Sex Kick. If she jumps/runs off the stage with a SexKick, Doc is screwed in avoiding it, as well as recovering from heights where it can cut through your falling pill defenses. Your more desperate recovery means such as airdodging and early UpBs should be considered more. Her UpTilt also works great at hitting doc out his UpB from underneath, so be ready to tech that. a Bomb lay off the side of the edge, can also come off as a shock, but as long as you time another UpB not too early (eating an UpTilt) or late, its only a distraction from what is to come right afterward.


    Jigglypuff

    Although her range is pitiful, decent spacing is a must when pilling against Jigs. Her B.air and F.air both easily jump into pills and attack you through them. She easily maneuvers over, under, and through them quickly so as she approaches you may want to turn around. Your B.air will be your best friend against Jigs. Take full advantage of its reach by SHing with it and being creative in how its used with WDing to cover distance and followup easier. UpTilt works well to exchange hits with her SH approaches and occasoinal Pound. If she shows pattern of tipping with her F.air/B.air at your shield and leaning away immediately, your cape works great in forcing her to mix things up. Anticipated offenses can be met with a Sexkick or F.Tilt interception. Jigs is very feint-oriented though, and because of her small size, can easily skim away from attack barely and punish quickly...so if you can afford to play more defensive it can benefit (since Doc has crappy reach as well). UpBed, can be situationally effective in picking her off, if she floats too close above you. be sure to fall through any platforms afterward.

    Since she is almost entirely aerial and leans away with her attacks, grabbing her is incredibly difficult. You won't be missing much, since she can't be comboed well, but if you can grab her at 70%, a D.throw to F.air is the best feeling in the world! A well placed dash jump-canceled UpSmash at 90% is also a clean KO, if you can pull it off as she attacks from above. If you get grabbed, watch out for her fast F.Throw by a ledge. Other than that, just keep away from her in the air as she pursues you. If you get juggled by her UpAirs, DI away, DJ out and use your D.air to cover your return or bust out the Sex if you have that tiny opportunity to break her combo.

    The edge is where Jigs really dominates Doc, though. Unless she is below the level, Jigs can't be edgeguarded. It takes at least 3 B.airs, all at different moments as she approaches the edge, to guard successfully. If she's at very high damage a flying, early-activated sex kick can be hard for her to avoid, especially if you aim slightly high and fast fall it (timed to hit her when it is at its highest strength). While edgeguarding, be careful not to get sucked into her Pound, since it reverses the roles of who is recovering and who is edgeguarding, which in this particular matchup...Wall-of-Pain = death on doc. nuff said. DIng upward to reduce your distance from her F.airs does not help! It only aids in allowing her sooner F.air followups. DI away with the attack to increase your distance from Jigs- even if it means going off the level. The longer time it takes Jigs to hit you again, the more likely you will be able to UpB immediately before and save yourself!

    Don't underestimate Rollout. If you have alot of distance from her as its being charged, approach from the air and land in front of Jigs using your cape, so that if she releases that moment or any moment later...she at shoots in a safer direction. Its not worth taking chances, making a mistake and dying at 50%. If Jigs happens to miss a rest, you are very lucky! Instead of just charging a F.Smash...Cape her as many times as you can first, since this won't wake her up. After 3 or 4 capes (42% is nothing to sneeze at!) C-stick F.Smash her for the win!

    If your knocked away from the level, remember to air dodge behind her when meeting her in air, then risk 1 hit (that turns into alot) or even UpB right before you get in her face(even if you're very high) to push her away, so you can afterward fastfall to the ground, since her floatyness prevents her to catch up. If your recovery takes longer than 1 second, Jigs is going to pursue you off the level and sink you with her F.air. UpAir with your DJ to protect it, and UpB soon as you can hit her. From heights, a D.air works well to outreach her and increase your chances of a safe landing. Puff is resistant to alot of doc's strong points: combos, edgeguarding, and spam, so if you're not used to fighting Jigs this can be a very hard match.


    Doc
    Against someone who you can't exploit any strongpoint and weakpoint, it becomes very much a brawl of mindgames. Your greatest strengths are nulled, and your biggest weaknesses forgiven. There's little advice I can give, so here goes! Exploiting the near-meaningless recovery, backthrows by ledge into edgehog is the way to go. But to get there you're going to have to fight safe as you can without spamming, since its gonna be caped. Dash SH sex kicks THROUGH his pills and hit him when the sex is stongest....D.Smashes every chance can't go wrong, but UpTilts will work good to defend against SH attacks, yourself. Caping is good against Doc, since its a miracle if his litle nubs called apendages can actually hit you anyway...and Projectiling is good, but better left as aerial pre-offenses.

    Doc tends to break out of combos well with his smaller size, average weight, and sex kick...so try to start early with UpAirs and finish him with what seems the most reliable. As a great offense a jumping reverse Cape into a falling B.air is mighty sexy. It can turn around their anti-air movement(even though you're not facing them) and them snipe them with your shoes last minute.


    Mario
    This really isn't THAT much different from a ditto fight, but nonetheless he's a different character who requires a little more on comboing and staying around...then going for the straight kills. Like against another Doc, Sex kick is your best friend. Since Mario doesn't have any great reaching move, and the sex has oober-priority...throwing it out a little extra more can just be a less risky way of racking up damage here and there. Since Mario's fireballs only sink...you can jump Pill right over his and be ready to Cape if he caped it back at you. Mario gets out of combos very easily, so you're better off trying to shuffle him w/ UpAir and Sex as fast as possible instead of trying to stick in that f.air, which he'll sex kick out of before it connects.
    Shuffle'd backkicks also do wonders against the lil' man, as well with directed F.Tilt spamming against all his SH offenses. If you overuse your pillrushes and/or shuffle offenses...Mario is going to reverse WD F.smash you and you will not be happy...ESPECIALLY if he nails you after you've already used your D.Jump trying to feint him. Please...don't let this happen to you! Keep that scenario in mind, and when that first frame that tell you its about to happen reaches your eye, cape or airdodge away!
    Mario is a little more potent under the opponent than Doc is, since his UpTilt keeps people more vertical, his UpSmash is stronger and his UpAir is somewhat better at juggling. But you can always try to sex through since Mario is of no threat in the air, lacking any powerful move. He is harder to shieldgrab because of his less aerial lag, so if you can move out the way and counter, it would be alot smarter. Mario and Doc are of considerably close playing potential, and I can't call a favor between the two fighting.


    Ganon
    To get it out the way, this guy has like the easiest recovery to edge guard with Doc...just cape. If he still makes it ontop, F.Smash him back off and repeat. Pill spam is very easy to start, but you must be extremely cautious to keep your distance, his bulk hides tricky reach, that can severely punish you! Spamming defensively works great because he HAS to take offense or suffer the side effects. His weight makes him an easy combo dummy for UpThrow-UpSmashes, and when he's at mid percent exchange that combo or D.Throws and UpTilts into Shuffled pusuits.

    If you're going to pillspam, don't underestimate his reach...because with your horrible recovery, it only takes a few hits from his bunnyhopping-F.airs to **** Doc into a KO, and even if you shield it, you can still eat a Jab after he L-cancels it, and protects himself...so either way you're screwed when he's in your face. He is simply NOT easy to grab. Ganon should also be jumping so that his F.air so that he is also as far as possible. If this is a habit for him, when you predict it, walk towards him before shielding. This way you are close enough to shieldgrab. Though if you do manage a grab at super-low damage you can chain upthrow him a couple times! And from there he can be chainthrown with D.throw a few times! Pillspam only takes you so far on big levels. A good Ganon can work his way through easily with F.Tilt and timed Jumps. Its actually the smaller levels Doc can beat him on, because it suffices for alot sooner B.air to edgeguards! As long as you're careful and stay under him the fight is yours.
    Ganon may also use a directed F.Tilt to knock you when you jump close, and can find a Pill to ForwardB under then follow up with his D.Air/UpSmash/ect...Like others though, Ganon doesn't possess a real sex kick and only hones a very slow D.air...so a great offense on him is a rising UpAir from a Pill. If its successful, you can UpAir again while falling down, then F.Smash as you both land.

    Overall Ganon is only easy to combo with Doc at mid-high percents, from his weight and size. If you're above Ganon, expect his prioritizing UpAir to keep you away from the ground, or even pseudo-spike you, back-turned. you can lure him to a ledge to backthrow-cape, but from there two hits and you're out, as well...and he doesn't even need to get a grab. Behind the simplistic illusion that "Doc > Ganon because of th3 Cape!11" you'll find a skilled Ganon can be a tough fight because of the simple reach plus knockback advantage. But if you reserve your shield well by not holding it all the way, you'll buy yourself alot more time to think and find openings to combo and edgeguard and make the fight a good one!


    Link
    Outreaching Doc with his sword...(and awesome sex kick), a fast Link player will seem to always beat you to the punch. Though we slowly take our journey down the Tier List one by one...Link is not to be taken lightly. He is, IMO, at an advantage against Doc. Pillspam is your friend...not to do damage!~ but to defend against his weapons!! Sadly the cape will not help you in this fight. Reflected boomerangs shoot above Link's head, and since you turned his projectile into YOURS he is able to throw a 2nd boomerang while the 1st one is still around! Bombs thrown accurately at the head are also impossible to grab, not to mention always feel like exploding in your face when you cape them. (Caping backwards has a high success rate) That is why pills are your best defense here. Just don't get too dependent on them as the gap between ya'll lessens, because Link may launch towards you and fall with his SexKick through pills easily and tip you with his foot, providing just enough stun to follow up with many things, including a hookshot.

    If you get grabbed and thrown upwards, DJ immediately to avoid his UpTilt. If he predicts that, then he's going to jump Air, so be sure to DI any potential hit away from him, since when he's under his UpAir can't be beat. Approach him with sex kicks often, and Jab an opening for a grab. UpThrow works well enough for UpAir chains, but shuffled sex tot shuffled F.air is possible too if you're lucky. Link's sword spin can pull a mean number on Doc, so DI upward if the u see that its inevitable. Its better to keep moving, and don't let Link create a settup with his weapon combos. If you are off the ledge, Link's falling sex kick is one of his best edgeguarding tools, so if you can reserve your D.Jump until you last need it so you may sink below his sex-zone.

    EdgeGuarding Link isn't easy...Link's recovery is not only very safe, but pretty good, so I advise timing to grab the ledge and use that window of invincibility to back kick him away, since its asking quite alot to sneak one in normally from his spinning sword. Mastery leveled hookshots at the edgetip provide almost an impossible to edgeguard recovery. If the Link has it down and uses it too often, jump off and cape him so he shoots it the wrong way. Like a skilled Link, you need to balance your offenses and defenses into a single solid game. If Link gets in your face, he can mix up shuffled Sexs and Jabs into hookshots and pseudo-chain grab with his D.throw if he chases your techs into more hookshots. DI one direction then Tech hit the other to make him really work for it at least. Link holds his own easily with Doc and argueably has an advantage in this fight since he avoids easy edgeguards and edgeguards Doc easily.


    Luigi
    Weeg glides across the ground quicker than anyone, punishing your mistakes before they even happen. I'll spill the no-nos....don't pursue aerial combos...you will be sexkicked into luigi-fun. Though Luigi can move on the ground quick as falco's laser, his jumping is horridly slow and horizontally challenged, this limits his offenses greatly. In addition he has one of the most useless projectiles. With those in mind....low Pillspam O.W.N.S. Luigi. He will most likely F.Tilt and shuffle his way through them and wait for an opportunity to WD D.smash as his combo starter. Be ready to F.Tilt.

    If you shield a SH attack from Luigi..don't drop your guard yet..he can pull another one before he lands(usually nuetral), making it difficult to bag the slipperly devil. Since comboing won't be easy...focus on quick SH backkicks whenever you can, to nitpick up his percent. It can be very difficult to land a finishing blow on him as any followup, so in your projectile-whoring watch him carefully...the easiest KO's on him are going to from a split second prediction...not your combos. His recovery pretty much blows, wait by the ledge and cape when he comes close...not just his Forward B...cape his upB as well...its really not that hard, since you can tell when he's going to do it, since he has to be directly underneath. If he is high enough to avoid normal edgeguarding you can jump off with a sex kick to nail him since he barely moves in air.

    Weegee's finishers don't have low trajectory angles and his edgeguarding blows, so Doc's extended recovery is all you need, most of the time to make it back. But his D.air, and F.air are extremely fast, so bad DI is common in assisting those early aerial deaths, so be careful. Backwards SH F.air are effective against Luigi's offenses, and can be repeated as a mind game making him hoping to counterhit the first one with his WD-D.Smash only to get nailed by the 2nd. Backwards WDes into flying Sexkicks work great too, since Lu is usually one to play follow the oponent. This fight is most easily won when you play it safe, and run Luigi out of options. If you can cripple his ground speed, you automatically win, but if you are too offensive he will reverse your combos and KO you in the air.

    Y.Link
    Quick and a projectile-wh*re, a skilled Young Link can be annoying. Y.Link's tend to fight more like Pikachu, continually moving around and jumping in any opening. Except he does this alot better than pika because his boomerang and bombs will be bouncing everywhere. The same rules stay here, for Link. Catch bombs and try to avoid the boomerang over Caping(unless your very close) Y.Link's main KO moves are his Dash/D.Smash by a ledge, and D.Air/UpAir. So if you watch yourself by a corner, his KO options are even more limited. Between your pillspam and his jumping around with his weapons, you're just as likely to get hurt as him, since its hard to Cape when you're keeping track of your spacing and availability to pillrush. Dash SH-Sex kick owns many projectiles, flying right through into the oponents face. But Never go for this if he has a bomb in his hand. Doctors are flammable, too!

    In close quarters range, F.Tilt and D.Smash give you a reach advantage and KO him like you would most, but remember he's lighter so that Backthrow might come in handly earlier than you think. If your rushes are shielded, expect his handy hookshot grab into upthrow-uptilt/aerial. So be ready to DI left/right. Normally, the better Y.Link players have a mean defensive game; sometimes camping. If you are winning(or tie) don't let play their game...make then come through a maze of pills, instead. If you're losing...well..then you really don't have much of a choice, and they will be ready to projectile, Jump, walljump, airdodge, flying sex kick through..., etc, etc, etc.
    If they know what they're doing this can be very annoying since its hard to hit them. Keep your cool and study them. Sometimes just a random flying lucky DocPunch is the perfect cure to put you back in the lead. Play a few safe rules, and Y.Link has trouble getting that finisher in. If he misses his hookshot, WD into him charging your F.Smash then let'r rip last moment! Y.Link can charge his D.Smash as a great edgeguarding move and release it when you UpB!...So reserve your cape to buy yourself more time for a safe return.

    Roy
    Th3Ph1r3Pwnzj00!!!!1.......or does it? Good Roy's know to abuse the D.Tilt. Quick, reaching, exellent settup, hard to punish. This and his grab are what you want to avoid more than anything since those are his easiest openers to his powerful hits. Pill Spam works good on Roy, because his fall doesn't allow him to get very far over them, but this also makes him a quick Shuffler into a F.Smash. Don't get cocky though, because a good Roy knows to use the reach effectively...so do the same to Marth for laggy reachy moves: Shield-WD-grab! He's not that hard to grab, because despite his reach, he's dependent on getting close if he wants his attacks to be anywhere past weak. So work those into some nice aerial settups.
    You can chain UpThrow him from 0%, but its possible for him to DI + DJ out. If you launch him, pursue him to the point of risk because making a mistake up there is like being slapped with a wet noodle. On the otherside, if he launches you with D.Tilt, expect a F.air/Sex into D.tilt, etc. A classic Roy-finish is his D.throw to F.smash(much like yours) always DI away from him when you're grabbed.

    Roy doesn't get much use from his Up and F.Tilt so pillrushes into F.air, D.Smash, or flying Sex all work nicely. In close quarters range remember about your Jab, that basicly outspeeds all his attacks and opens him up for a stronger hit at higher damage. Roy's edgeguarding owns many character, but luckily Doc isn't one of them, especially once you learn to stall a second with the tornado/cape to psyche them out for a new window, and considering Roy has no low trajectory power hits, you'll probably be able to come back, if you weren't blasted out the screen. If Roy goes aerial, expect his very quick FF into a F.air L-canceling into who knows what. You may want to WD away into a pill or time an UpTilt. When you knock him off, edgehogging is the easiest way to finish the job, and if he has height to go over, just drop with a back kick to take him out. Roy has a Very good ground game, and his with DashDancing and turn-around Forward B combined he can dodge and counter and also use it to test the waters with you. Stay in control by mixing your offenses and defenses and bully him horizontally for the easy edgeguard KO. This is one of Doc's easier matchups if you play patient.

    Pikachu
    Pika can be a little hard to hit, with its great evasion and flimsy attacks. But because of its poor reach, its jellybean body is easily caped around and KO'ed with DocPunch and F.Smash. You really want to go for the KO and not the edgeguard, because of its good recovery distance. Pikachu can use his Jolts much like pillrush, but its physical followups from it are basicly weak and slow. Its actually just easier to cape, since its pretty slow and broadcasted with a friendly, "PIKA-...!" beforehand. If you get Thundered(I hope you don't) by pika you're pretty much dead...but the only Thunder that should hit you is while your in the air after an aerial settup-usually upsmash/uptilt. Pika's wavedash, grab, dashgrab, F.Air all blow...so you can basicly cream it, head on.

    Pika's pros are great low percent juggles, but its really hard for Pika to make it under, when its reach is so poor and theres few moves that can open that opportunity. Shieldgrab into downthrow-f.smash to beat up the rodent at low percent...and aerials at mid. Just don't Sidestep into its lasting F.smash, and you should die hard. You can also cape Thunder to hit pika instead, but note Thunder has more than 1 motion of attack, so you still may be hit by a later part of it! If the Pika player tries aerial Jolt Spam, where the cape doesn't cut it and its hard to find time to throw pills...you can always dash with a Sex Kick through the jolt and hit pika behind it. Likewise, Pika can use its own flying sex kick to quickly blast into the air and pop you. This offense leads into his UpAir easily, which need to be cautious of by the ledge, since it can pseudo-spike you(meaning you can't meteor jump X____X) if he is slightly above you when he does it. If in that predicament, might I advise you UpB to a fast fall back to the ground to avoid that scary confrontation! Overall, a simple fight since pika doesn't have the privilege of punishing with reach, especially if he gets pushed back some. If your get stuck in a low juggle your probably screwed for a few UpTilts than its UpSmash, so try to stay on one side of the rodent and not fall for its UpSmash out of its shield!

    DK
    You're dealing with a character of good reach, and great punish-moves including the GiantPunch, which will be charged if you leave him alone. Pillspam and rushes own this huge target. Normally DK is very hard to approach with his good reach and his good reach misleading how close he is. If not, his F.Smash plows away many dash SHs, and if he grabs you, your invited to be slapped on his back, thrown up into his combo-crazy UpAir that are devastating on platform levels where we may actually break even with Doc. So as a focus, refuse to let him grab you. One of DK's better offenses is his shuffled N.Air. It lets him safely get in close for a grab, whereas yours wouldn't reach. In this situation its best just to back off with a better reaching and quicker move. UpAir out of your shield to make your escape when his approaches break in.

    The easiest way to get in DK's face is faking him out. Run at him, wave dash back/wavedash forward into sidestep...(with pills every now and then to play it safe) Whatever can get him to miss an attack. Go for the grab and UpSmash that monkey into UpAirs! You really can't miss. When he needs to pack his bags, play the same game, but look for any chance to sneak in your UpTilt into Shuffled UpAir pursuits into D.Smash. His weight proves to be a nuisance for any UpKO move minus DocPunch at 100+%. EdgeGuarding DK is really tough. Unless you've got a sword, it ain't easy to hit him before he stops spinning. And caping him can give him even more height, including several spinslaps hitting you anyway. I prefer to just sit by the ledge(but not at the edge) with a shield and wait for it to stop. Play defensive when you can and spam pills out the butt. Between chip damage and learning his limited approach tactics Doc should win.

    Zelda
    The FOOT! Beware of Lightning Kicks. Zelda players like to space themselves just out of reach, so if you make any short reached offense, you get to eat a foot. If you want instead, you can probably pillspam Zelda all day without getting hurt but on a small level its a very tough fight. Try to find any defensive pattern she uses...but double check yourself before you pillrush. Just try to imagine what happens when you and a pill are flying into...Nayru's Love!(FEAR!) One good offense is WD into a shield. If she doesn't attack, she's probably shielding too(waiting to grab)Look for that, and take the initiative to grab first, then. Zelda can use her F.Smash as a mindgame tool by using it for no reason, luring you in....to get hit by a 2nd F.Smash. That's why its important to be defensive(at the least, a little bit) to catch on to any tricks.

    Sadly...she's way floaty to be comboed easily. So just go straight into a single powerful hit, instead..unless you manage to get right under her at low damage-in which case spam UpAirs! Edgeguarding Zelda is cake, her recovery sux.(so look for her long-lasting airdodge, commonly used instead)Watch her height in relation to the edge when she UpBs. If she uses it early enough to appear on land...just stay still and be ready to WD-FSmash whenever she is grounded. If it looks like she can grab the ledge instead, WD off to steal it first. In that same scenario, she might have went up. So just jump up afterward and wait for her to land. Zelda is also easily multi-B.Air away from the stage from low damage. If you're grabbed by Zelda, DI left/right and you should be safe from a followup unless at low damage. On the other hand at high damages, be quick to judge if she attempts a F. or B.Throw and DI accordingly. Basicly, Zelda plays a mean defense. So keep her off of it, by luring her in with pillspam, and staying on your guard for strong hits, both you and her. Overall...its a close fight that is easily swayed in either favor depending on if you can make the Zelda grow too dependent on the foot.
     
    #3 Cyphus, Sep 17, 2005
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  4. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Mr.G&W
    Don't worry too much about Bucket (his DownB) sucking up your pills. As long as you pillrush, the horrible lag of absorbing them, will give you all the time you need to punish him greatly. Mr.G actually has good reach on all of his aerial attacks, so concentrate more on attacking groundwise. Mr.G&W can Shuffle his F.air as a combo alone, or link it to his D.Tilt. Overall this is his best offense, so F.Tilt his SHs to limit his game. Feinting him with WDs severely punish him, so do what you can and slide back in with Smashes/grabs.At higher damage, you're better off finishing him via a vertical KO.

    **Port Priority and D.Throw**
    Port Priority (ex: P1 > P2, or P2 > P4) determines whether Mr.G will bounce off the ground, or get stuck -and given the option to Tech on the ground. If you have port-priority you should be able to D.Throw him into a DocPunch if he bounces at high percent -- or if he has priority he has to Tech *immediately*. If he can do it, he guarantees escape! It terribly easy to miss though and you can Jab or D.smash followup. Just be aware of this weird game issue!

    In Plan B, edgeguarding can be tricky since his 3rd jump goes so freagin' high and he can use it whenever he wants...to hit and land or grab the ledge. Turn your back to him by the ledge, and wait. If he UpBs...shield his rise, then punish. The only he waits the easier it is to Cape and seal the deal! If you get grabbed, DI left/right, and hope you can avoid his Parachute. When recovering, reserve your jumps if possible, and stay low to avoid his F.air SHing off. Be wary to ledgetech his D.Tilt as well. Avoid over-caping Mr.G. His jumps go far, so in air, he usually passes through you, and hits you from the other side...and on ground you're better off playing at a distance or close wit the reach game with F.Tilt in addition to your pills. Its at mid reach where G&W can punish laggy moves with his shuffled F.air.


    Ness
    D.Jump cancelling aerials...w00t. With his poorer reach, Doc can get pushed by Ness's F.air pretty easily. But outside of that, Ness has even worse reach than the Doc...making Doc's F.Tilt and Cape extra useful. In the air, WD shuffled B.airs can surprise him, and if he gets F.air happy everytime you approach him in air, just feint and punish him with F.Tilt. Doc isn't much of a fast faller, so Ness's combos can't be very long, bu Doc still has potential to UpAir dance under him at mid damage. Pills are still good, just use them intelligently vs his PSI magnet - it lags alot when he absorbs. You should avoid challenging Ness in the air, his F.air and headbutt go through pretty much anything, so your safest bet is using pills to approach or making him chase you. If you get under him at early damage spam UpTilts til he DIs away, then chase him with shuffled UpAirs.

    Caping Ness's recovery doesn't always work as you hoped for, and though Doc's recovery is horrible on its own...I advise you jump off the stage and get hit by his PK Thunder on purpose, if you have the time. Ness will fall to his death, as you bounce up, then UpB back to the stage. In most cases, the battle goes by too quick for you to risk that, but if you have the right moment jump and pill at either his Thunder or him (2 targets? not bad!). And you can simply backthrow and time your B.air to get him there. Ness can be difficult to sheild grab with his psychic reach and D.Jump canceling shifting DI, but his grab range and dash speed is horrible so relatively speaking..poor at punishing techs and rolls since his F.Smash is slow and F.Tilt simply put...bad. It would be easiest to control this fight at mid distance, and the classic D.throw to F.air works like a charm.


    Yoshi
    Yosh is one of the most unique characters that can throw off your game if you don't catch on. Pillspam him like you would anyone else, and juggle him using UpTilts at early damage. Yoshi has laggy Smashes, so if you can fake him out by WDing backwards from an offense(or shield-wavedash-grab), then back in...you'll get your reward. Yoshi can D.J.-cancel through attacks and aerial you, if you challenge him in air, so take note not to UpAir when he can DJC Sex kick through. His resistant priority can even dominate the cape, hitting you the opposite way, as he passes through. But if you can trick him into doing this in vain, a single punishment can lead to a shameful fall for Yoshi, since he has not a 3rd jump. Speaking of which, expect Air-dodge recoveries frequently. UpTilt works as a good edgeguard move against Yoshi, and if he evades through you, just turn around and B.Throw his green @$$. Yosh-masters can Ledge-cancel their Eggs, by continually tossing as they fall and jump while hanging. Its Very difficult to get in once they start this, so always move in, before they grab a hold. Or just keep feinting til they mess up and accidentally SD since what they are doing is insanely hard to keep up for a while.
    Yoshi can put great pressure with his CCing D.tilt/Smash, sweeping you to the corners of the stage, and pursuing you with attacks like B.Aerial, into a DJC Sex, a favorite of offenses, along with actually being able to combo his B.air to Smash Attacks! When you do SH rush, preferably go over/through his eggshield, his options are down to none, when his back is turned(unlike you). And if you didn't go behind him, just Jab him after he drops the shield and you L-cancel, or sidestep his tounge-grab, then charge a F.Smash. If you do happen to get turned into an egg by the ledge, don't bother trying to break out, until you' DI'ed completely back to the stage, first. It's always possible. Yoshi actually has the best shield since it Always protects his entire body no matter how weak it is...but unlike everyone else, he cannot jump out of it and his roll sucks. This is one reason Yoshi cannot defend, so if you can keep the pressure on he'll be extinct.
    His best option of leaving his shield is sidestepping out. Be aware of this when you think he needs to lose his shield, and perhaps use a long-lasting attack like F.Tilt or SH Sex. Doc can actually chain d.throw Yoshi for some pretty nasty damage. Eventually he'll DI diagonally upwards to try to get out- at which point go for as f.smash or upsmash for solid damage.


    Mewtwo
    The telekinetic kitty shines in primarily one thing-Grabs....This is your focus on what to avoid. Pillspam is simple enough, but remember Teleport can actually be used smartly here to bypass them and surprise you with a grab if you aren't looking out for it!! If he's defensive, continue to pillspam. Early combos work best on his light self, but due to his floatiness and teleport he can break out of combos early. Luckily the added stun from being at higher damages, don't allow him the time to escape from a D.throw to Doc Punch (and you can aim for his tail if his body is far away). Mewtwo has further reaching tilts, so make sure your offenses are tight. Mewtwo's best KO moves on Doc will be UpThrow(DI left/right, duh), Backthrow to edgehog/guard, and the occasional lucky Shadowball or F./D.Smash. Mewtwo's WD is awesome and if you see it coming, take precaution that its mostly like a grab or D.Tilt (his d.tilt is amazing!). SideStep to Jab-Grab-d.throw-uptilt/upair or at least be F.Tilt-happy. His standard combos will consists with D.Tilt to grab or to UpAir into F.air then UpAir. So if the D.tilts start coming, DI away and try to N.air out.

    Shadowball has a brief startup, so if you can cape it at 60%, he's automatically dead. Edgeguading Mewtwo is very hard, but thats why you just give him those few extra hits, so you can just KO instead. Your B.air isn't a bad move either to spam in this fight if your back is turned, which is conveniently fast to pop out of your shield. Mewtwo has a great sex kick since only far reaching attacks will penetrate his electrified body. And since you don't have any far reaching attacks, you are slightly out of luck here since it will be quite abusable against you, Especially on platforms where he can poke half his body up and down through. When you get a chance just jump away and land back on the low ground instead of trying to SG. If you're too defensive in this fight, you're going to get grabbed alot because once they find an opening either it be WDing or Teleport its over. If you keep moving and don't let him frustrate you this fight should be yours.


    Kirby
    Not nearly flexible in the air as JP, Kirby falls back on a much simpler game than most. Without reach or power, he's reliant on a defensive-style play. Kirbys attack primarily only cover the specific direction used, meaning he has no attacks that cover good range. With that in mind, SH pillrushes crush him, since he lacks anti-aerial defenses. Likewise, his offenses are very limited and easily guarded with your best reaching moves: B.Air, F.Tilt, D.Smash. When that barrier is broken and he's in your face, Jab works great to set him up for a grab. At higher percents, D.Throw to DocPunch wrecks. While ducking and WDing Kirby can be a very swift sniper using his D.Tilt and fast jump to B.air when his back his turned. Also be wary of his UpTilt as an anti-air move into his powerful UpAir. Case being...don't let him taunt you into playing how he wants you to! Play a very simple defensive game, focusing on how the player reacts. Kirby's offenses are limited, and once you've found his favorites you can sneak under him and punish.
    A really scary part about fighting kirby is when he's by a ledge, or hanging. They love to take you down with them using Inhale. I prefer to just pillspam til he crawls out his hole, so I can finish him with a D.Smash or DocPunch. But in edgeguarding keep your distance and don't be afraid to roll back to avoid the Inhale. If you are sucked in, DON'T try to mash out. This only makes you drop from him, dying anyway(for doc's case), and him puffing back up to the stage. Don't move a muscle and pray your damage was high enough for him to keep you in long enough to guarantee his own death at least, too. Kirby may actually just want to take your ability and use Pills himself, instead in the match. He may easily duck under your own pills, and now be able to spam his own with his multi-jumps nicely. But you still have the cape, so any effort is in naught. Kirby's B.Air is very fast, reaching, and combo-friendly into a Wall-of-Pain, so to speak, so be wary of it to explode out of his shield when his back is turned.


    Bowser

    Just run and pillspam bowser on big levels, theres really not much he can do and when he's at higher percent, UpSmash/SH UpAir juggle him into a finisher. Bowser can D.Smash edgeguard your recovery and will UpB out his shield to punish your blocked attacks. Bowser's CCing game is overrated since he doesn't have any fast attacks that can be CCed. It's easiest to edge-guard him with just the F-tilt and use the cape if he tries to grab the edge. While hogging, if he goes over, just edge-wave up into a F.Smash or B.throw if he tends to shield immediately.
    Just because Bowser is slow, doesn't mean you can roll around him. He actually has a great dash-grab range to punish rollers. Aside from his UpB...his UpSmash covers a footballfield and is extremely powerful. One of his best anti-aerial too. On the offense Bowsers shuffle their F.airs and pseudospike you with their B.Air when you're by the ledge. If you get in the habit of shielding his shuffles, you're going to get aerially KoopaKlawed. Keep your UpTilt in mind, and WD punish all his tech rolls at mid damage. So when you are close don't get out of his face, and when your away, keep away. This is a no brainer win for doc, as long as you don't underestimate your opponent. You can even chain throw him with the Up at early damage and the Down at mid.

    Pichu
    Pichu has a virtually useless defensive game, since he has plenty self-damaging moves. Expect alot of quick n.air approaches. All it can do is hope you miss with laggy attacks so it can hit and run. Prevent this by using high area-covering attacks, like D.Smash, cape, and Sex.
    Pichu's better killing moves are UpSmash, F.Smash, and flying Sex-edgeguard. How he goes about using those, depend on how long you let him dance around you. Edgeguarding Pichu is indeed difficult with its mixable recovery options, not to leave out double quick attacking into the edge or past you. As long as it doesn't QuickAttack into the ground, it has virturally no lag. If it does..its stuck for about a second, in which case you WD.Fmash it. If your by the ledge just cape, hehe, you might get lucky and turn around quick attack, if he's recovering from a lower angle. If the Pichu does Jolt-Spam,(the idiot) cape what comes, then flying Sex into his face. Combo-wise, since he's so small and light, you just might be able to throw it into a UpSmash, then DocPunch.



    Overview
    To put it simply, Doc is a very balanced character...but he still has good and bad matchups. Relatively speaking, characters above him on the tier list tend to have an advantage over him, and characters below him are usually matchups in Doc's favor, with a few exceptions here and there. Please remember these are just my opinions, and are based on my own experience on all the nuetral stages (FD, FoD, Battlefield, Stadium, Yoshi, DL64. Your opponents and your own skills may reflect entirely different impressions!

    Disadvantaged: characters who exploit Doc's weaknesses, resist his strong points, or simply outspeed him.
    Sheik, Peach, Falco, Fox, Marth, Capt., Jigs

    Fair: characters who are very close; their favor can be taken or given, stage selection may influence
    Ice, Luigi, Link, Samus, Ganon, DK, Mario, Y.Link, Pikachu

    Advantaged: characters who fall victim to pillspam, easily KOed/edgeguarded or simply inferior in moveset and stats.
    Mewtwo, Roy, Zelda, Mr.G&W, Ness, Kirby, Yoshi, Bowser, Pichu

    Because he is relatively balanced, his difficult fights can really be ANYONE that the player is not familiar with. As long as you adapt to your opponent and his character, Doc really cannot be countered...only outperformed.


    ------------------------------------------------------------
    12
    Turf Advantages


    Tourney-Legal Stages to...

    Avoid:

    Battlefield, DreamLand 64, Rainbow Cruise
    His recovery is poor, so he hates far away deathzones because while he won't be able to return....many others can. So stages like Dreamland 64 make Doc's recovery seldom useful. But above all else...
    Doc hates high platforms such as Battlefield. Doc gets wrecked because his jump is too slow, and not high enough to take near the advantage those with fast jumps and reach can (such as what RainbowCruise is all about) Plus, platforms stop his chainthrows and combos, unlike enhancing them like Fox/Falco. Plus platforms hurt his pill game, since it adds just another route the opponent can take shelter.
    Although they have platforms, Yoshi's Story and Fountain of Dreams can be useful versus another character who sucks with platforms, especially if Doc already has a knack at edgeguarding them, and since the deathzones aren't too far off, Doc has good chances of making it back, if he isn't KOed.


    Use:

    Corneria
    Characters to take here: Peach, Jigs, Samus, Ice, Zelda, Ganon (The aerially-slow characters)
    Nearby deathzones, plenty room to run and pillspam (especially from fin), slopes for creating tricky pill angles, and a walled corner for returning pills. Also note the potential tool to UpB into the GreatFox fin and immediately drop with an attack, while shortly invincible and repeat! Floaty/light oponents with good recoveries should be taken here, where they become vertically KO'ed and their distanced recoveries aren't abused.
    You'll want to avoid fast aerial characters on this level though. Fox will **** with infinites in the corner and early UpSmash/upthrow-upair KOs. And the UpB-into Wing trick is abusable by Marth and Samus alot worse than you, so make sure to avoid the corner versus them.
    Most of the lower tiers will get wrecked on this level against Doc, but avoid Y.Link, who can camp on the guns forever by ducking, if he gets a stock ahead!


    Mute City
    Characters to take here: Fox, Falco, Capt, Roy(the aerially-fast characters)
    Most the time, there is a lack of platforms which equals chainthrows, and less combos that can be done on you by these pixies. The lack of a grabbable edge also means edgeguarding is improved by everyone, which helps balance out theirs to yours.
    Speaking of which, the small platform area you do fight on strongly encourages horizontally bullying and KOs, both of which the fastfallers are weak too. When the platforms and cars are around, its best just to hold your ground and not get overly aggressive since its not the playground you like. Because of the inconsistent space, which is usually small, Falco's SHL isn't overly abusable and Fox and Capt don't have alot of running room. Small combos, such that ends with a DIed F.air...sending them horizontally are usually suffice enough for an appropriate early damage edgeguard.


    Final Destination
    Characters to take here: Everyone else
    This may be Doc's overall best level, in that there is no one to particularly avoid, and yet it fully utilizes his pros. It allows his chainthrows to be ruthlessly abused without the worry of platform interference! The huge horizontal reach allows great pillspam and easier opportunities to pillrush. There is enough depth under the level for Doc's recovery to be used when it can, while at the same time, not effect his ability to edgeguard well. Certain characters' advantages over Doc, like Sheik, cannot really be taken away with a stage...but it is a better idea to fight them here than one that introduces plaftorms - which another character can take greater advantage from.


    ------------------------------------------------------------
    13
    <r3d175
    I'd like to thank the stupid geniuses who made this game...because they created a horribly-cloned character, whom could have been someone original like LittleMac, Pit, Wario, etc.
    Smashboards.com for being the place I learned most things
    People who read this guide, because its all the motivation a person needs to make one- knowing it will be used for the greater good of the community...........or maybe I was just really bored...yeah, thats is. Now I remember.
    Usea for finding the info on the diffs between Mario and Doc's "speed".
    Vilness for the find on SH B.air to Sex/WD/DJ.
    BobMoney for helping me improve my Doc at FC3, and making the doc combo vids.
    SmashMac for creating "The Doctor's CheckUp" video guide, which works beautifully with my guide. Also for helping me expand on techniques and tricks.
    Gea for having my baby.
    AND ALL THE DOC PLAYERS OUT THERE.
     
    #4 Cyphus, Sep 17, 2005
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
    Spaghetti Sammy and trusty like this.
  5. white peachy

    white peachy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    792
    Location:
    Connecticut, USA
    wow, i just read over it quickly but that is awesome, good job man. it's obvious you put a lot of time into this.
     
  6. Bob Money

    Bob Money
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2004
    Messages:
    909
    Location:
    Concord
    CYPHUS YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT GUIDE its very detailed and ..Accurate. I love how u said dont spam u tilt vs falcon thats a real good point. Good tip vs Ice climbers i ned help vs them. hmmmm DOc owns on corneria. If jiggs bans Yoshi story on you go corneria.
    i like the pill tricks haha nice names. DId u add something about Pill to WD?
     
  7. FastFox

    FastFox
    Expand Collapse
    Faster than most vehicles

    • Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,842
    Location:
    The tall grass

    E.X.C.E.L.L.E.N.T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The guide was so detailed, and so incredibly acurate. Awesome job, and keep up the good posting!!
     
  8. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    wonder how many updates it'll take to get this stickied :psycho:

    (bleh..i just edited all the posts again...it never ceases to amaze me how many new typos i'll find. But its just hard to find them, when your brain fills in the blanks where there are errors because You know what You mean) anywho....i just added the jumping to falling sex attack in advanced section)
     
  9. AdamXiah

    AdamXiah
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    Cyphus, this guide is truly amazing. I've been looking for a good Doc guide that isn't, like you said, filled with useless damage % information. Thanks for your time on making this guide.

    You rock.
     
  10. VilNess

    VilNess
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,603
    Location:
    Finland
    Yes, your guide has ballz and Pillz!

    You should add that shorthopbair to 2nd jump is very useful against shieldgrabbers. or at least try it if it works for you.
    btw. I think Bob$ did a SHABAWD in one of his combos in overdose. cool.

    good input on the Doc vs. Ness. I don´t think there´s anything I should argue with. though I haven´t played that matchup almost at all so I´mnot sure how good does the cape work in the end.oh and against good Ness taking his PK thunder will be very hard with Doc. why not just bair him if possible?
     
  11. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    i did briefly mention the SH B.air to DJ is good to avoid Shield Grab..in the "Close Quarter Quick Draws" section, but you're right, i should reemphasize on its uses.

    That new Mario Guide really owns my doc guide :(. His character matchup strategies are so detailed, makes me want to totally scrap mine and start over. And maybe i should have percents for attacks(but only the percent for the first time it hits). That would prolly be nice.

    and b.airing ness using PK thunder is nice and all..but doesn't look nearly as sexy as jumping off and taking the hit.
     
  12. cF=)

    cF=)
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,909
    This guide is simply great !! i started playing smash bros. melee with Doc but abandonned him for Zelda since I thought i was no good with him.

    Your guide change my life, give me courage and helped me play vs my worst matchup like Fox and Peach... oh I liked how you describe Zelda type of game, really accurate how i love the kick ;)

    Anyway good job ! keep up the fantastic work.
     
  13. FireKP1

    FireKP1
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,357
    Location:
    In the fiery pits of hell.
    Cyphus you rock at guides.
     
  14. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    wow. thanx for the great critism. I'll give my guide a break, but as always, theres room for improvement. When i come back to it i deffinately want to shrink it down some. Its a little too lengthy. And i'd like to improve my character vs strategies. I would love to hear more feedback on how i can improve it.
    I just need to figure out what is it i'm doing that isn't apparently pleasing enough to the mods to get it stickied after 4 updates over 2 years of times! XD
     
  15. Tipo mastr

    Tipo mastr
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    telling people that my name is pronouced &quot;Typ
    WOW. Great guide. One question. Can you explain the b-up cancel more indepth?
     
  16. Omnigamer

    Omnigamer
    Expand Collapse
    All the things

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2003
    Messages:
    4,412
    Location:
    Boston, MA

    *Stickies*

    [​IMG]

    Good work.
     
  17. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Edited the first two post. Hope you find it easier to understand, Tipo. I know i have a bad habit of typing what i think, and not what is understandable. I cant' help it i have a disjointed brain box. :(

    i changed the move descriptions ALOT just now..and added percent info. ****..it looks alot better already. XD
    And thank you very much Omni. You are the shiznit.
     
  18. NotAchickEn

    NotAchickEn
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    32
    this guide is amazing, some of this stuff i never even thought to use. that up+b cancel is nuts and 45deg up+b recovery thing is cool. plus his uber cape. Doc > all
     
  19. Meteor Mario

    Meteor Mario
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Huntley, Illinois
    Great job with the guide. I've learned a few things from this, thanks alot for sharing your knowledge of Doc with us.
     
  20. SmashMac

    SmashMac
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,388
    Location:
    Naples, FL.
    Hey, that guide was awesome. I spent like an hour reading about 3/4ths of it and skimming some of it, but overall I learned from it things I never knew and some sweet tips. I'll put them into play if I have not already. Thanks man.
     
  21. Uno

    Uno
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    346
    Location:
    NJ
    Very nice guide.

    Sadly, your char specific guide was so good and soooo accurate that I have abandoned the Doc =(
     
  22. Tipo mastr

    Tipo mastr
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    telling people that my name is pronouced &quot;Typ
    Hey, thanks I finally got the B-up cancel!!!1one! It links great to the utilt, and it can go out of a sheild :psycho:

    Some critisism:
    1: SHABAWD. More info, what it follows up with, etc.
    2: DTHROW COMBOS!! They rock your world, and can go 0% to 50% easy!
    3: Tornado and upsmash isn't completely useless. Dthrow,Upsmash,upsmash, dthrow, upsmash, rising tornado, DIing to your opponent.
    4: You might want to put in a specific combos section.
     
  23. Bob Money

    Bob Money
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2004
    Messages:
    909
    Location:
    Concord
    Cyphus this guide is sweet man, after not playing doc for a while i can tyo this SWEET GUIDE for a review . Espeically on the matchup section i needed a wake up call on certain match ups i was playing completly wrong :psycho: :psycho: :psycho: :psycho: ....oh yeah DONT FORGET UPSMASH OUTOF SHIELD WITH DOC itas awesome if u mix up up because they wont expect it and they will DI bad and its an easy fair or fsmash whatver.
     
  24. fiSHtITS

    fiSHtITS
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    NSW, Central Coast, Gosford
    I just picked up Doc and this guide is so, so helpful and wel written. It's funny how when u start out you see a character and you use all his moves and find some good combos and think you've nailed him, then you read a guide like this and you realise you know about 3% of that character's ability.
    Bob-money's vids are really helpful and Overdose is IMO the best DBR video.

    Bob have u versed Mike Nasty?
     
  25. Bob Money

    Bob Money
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2004
    Messages:
    909
    Location:
    Concord
    yes ive verse him alot he is in my crew, although he stopped playing for a while.
     
  26. Coen

    Coen
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,221
    Location:
    Netherlands

    Wow, this guide is too good O_o Everything is so detailed and there's no useless information!

    Great job, man.
     
  27. WeedLuigi

    WeedLuigi
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    162
    This guide is nice...I have learned a lot about doc from it!!!
     
  28. KillerPichu o.O

    KillerPichu o.O
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    54
    You might not be able to get that sort of attack in on Pichu when he lands from his quick attack. Pichu's quick attack is special, because it has a landing frame of one. Therefore, Pichu can easily spot dodge and shield against those sort of attacks.

    Pichu's Shffl'd n-air/b-air have a great amount of priority. However, it seems like Dr. Mario has some lessened delay over electrical attacks. I can't link up an f-air to another attack when I could do it for basically all the other characters. The only way you'll get a Pichu into a d-throw/(up-smash/tilt) is if they can't DI properly. Not saying that Pichu is better than the Doctor, but some things were just wrong.
     
  29. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    hm..you are very correct KillerPichu. My pichu experience is basically horrible. I corrected my info.
    You see...from playing Pichu as rarely as i did, i thought it ALWAYS had lag after it UpB. But after doing some testing, i noticed it only is stuck to ground for that second, if its Quick Attack's distance is incomplete by going into the ground too early. yea..so it actually really doesn't have any lag, from a Correct recovery.
    And granted, yea..pichu's small size and weight + DI makes it very hard to combo him from throws. Since combos that are guaranteed are few and far between, its just something to have in mind if it you throw and see that they weren't ready to DI is just right.


    Update: I slightly modified around and added a tiny bit more to most of the VS. characters and a few spots here and there thoughout the guide.
     
  30. Deveyus

    Deveyus
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    No NO NO!!! Thy'll find me if I tell you.
    Under samus you might want to mention that they should watch for blaster followed missles, if the samus is quick enough you'll cape the missle and take a nice hot bolt of plasma in the face, instead try to sh the missle and cape the blast to make the samus pay.
     
  31. Chaotix_0

    Chaotix_0
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Right Behind You!
    Useful

    I'm not a big Doc player but I have an idiot-er I mean a friend who likes to use him and Sheik. I'll be sure to point this out to him.
     
  32. Dr.M@rio

    Dr.M@rio
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2005
    Messages:
    18
    Great Guide Cyphus I love to play doc and all the info that you gave was helpful :)
     
  33. NinjaFoxX

    NinjaFoxX
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    6,035
    Location:
    Small hole, looks nice though~
    YES. FREAKIN SWEET GUIDE MAN, THIS HELPS ALOT(i can pwn my friends even eaiser now)
     
  34. Chaotix_0

    Chaotix_0
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Right Behind You!
    lolx0r

    What you talk about with the megavitamins is EXACTLY what I do with Pika's Thunderjolt. Interestingly the thunderjolt's air speed is SLOWER than the vitamins, possibly increasing it's overall usefulness. It does deal less dmg though... crying shame.
     
  35. duncanp

    duncanp
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    3
    Great guide!
     
  36. Dr.M@rio

    Dr.M@rio
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2005
    Messages:
    18
    I can never get the SHBAWD down, is there a certain way to time this?
     
  37. Cyphus

    Cyphus
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,089
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    i guess the key is really trying to B.air the instant you SH. Depending on the situation i may use both sticks or both buttons to do it.

    heres a good way to experiment w/ the sticks. go by a ledge and d.throw a medium weight target and just flick the stick lightly up and whack the C stick to back kick them away from the level, then WD the landing into an edgehog. Iunno...thats what i did for a while toto learn the rhythm for it. Plus it a little better than if u were just practicing it for hte blue, having a semi-real environment for it kinna helps make it easier to do when u do need to it.

    Or if you don't use the sticks u could do the same w/ buttons, but but i personally find it esaier w/ th sticks.
     
  38. Dr.M@rio

    Dr.M@rio
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2005
    Messages:
    18
    Been playin around with friends and its true that WaveSmashing helps your game tremendously :)
     
  39. TTemp

    TTemp
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    211
    Location:
    Findlay, OH
    Great guide man. I really learned a lot of combos from this that I didn't previously know. It's unfortunate however that the only people I play against use chars with natural advantages against doc. Couple that with the fact that all of them are naturally better players than I am, and I kinda get destroyed. Hopefully with this newfound knowledge I can put up a better fight, if not even win a few matches. Thanks for keeping my faith in the good doctor alive.
     
  40. gotchips69

    gotchips69
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Spencerport NY
    awesp,e

    that was great
     

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)

We know you don't like ads
Why not buy Premium?