Not a Tier List: Montage's Character ratings: New Info: Meta, Sonic, Snake, Lucario

[Mattnumbers]

I have some things to add about Olimar(that I posted but were not taken note of yet)


1.His recovery is HORRIBLE! If someone edgehogs him he is almost guaranteed to die, this is because his up b will hit the opponent but not the ledge.(the same goes for ZSS and Ivysaur too I'm pretty sure)

2. He has the best grab mechanics in the game. It is pretty much a very fast grapple with no lag.

3. When whistling he gets some super-amour frames at the beginning, this could be great for countering.

 

[Proven]

You didn't read the last few pages where the "tether recovery characters are gimped" thread was linked.

I also responded in that thread, so I'll respond to you. If the chain is long enough while Olimar is close enough, he can still grab the ledge with the very next pikmin while the first one knocks off the other guy.

Even if that fails (or I'm mistaken), often the edge hogger will have enough damage that he'll bounce against the stage and die. This can happen whether or not you still grab the ledge.

 

[squarez]

Shame to hear about ganon, looking forward to PT and Diddy.

 

[Darkslash]

Hmm the OP just made my brawl Morale boost up for some strange reason

 

[Warchamp7]

Woah, I just noticed that Space is in your group XD

I've seen vids of him as Wolf on YouTube. I'm practically a fan of his XD

Him and Keitaro, he kicks *** with Falco :D

 

[dmbrandon]

Woah, I just noticed that Space is in your group XD

I've seen vids of him as Wolf on YouTube. I'm practically a fan of his XD

Him and Keitaro, he kicks *** with Falco :D

Not to flame, but keitaro doesn't have the game. He's good, but doesn't really know how to play. He's sort of selective about the vids he puts up. I'm diem, btw.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dmbrandon

This is the link to my crew's more recent stuff. Ether is actually Space.

 

[Warchamp7]

Not to flame, but keitaro doesn't have the game. He's good, but doesn't really know how to play. He's sort of selective about the vids he puts up. I'm diem, btw.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dmbrandon

This is the link to my crew's more recent stuff. Ether is actually Space.

Ah, you're Diem, I've watched a few videos of you too

I've been watching vids uploaded by this guy http://www.youtube.com/user/Rurounikeitaro

Also, did you get my PM I sent a little while ago/are you ignoring me/do you get flooded with PMs?

Don't seem to be any of you vs Space as Wolf Oh well, I'm gonna watch some of these :D

 

[Trespayne]

That sucks to hear Pit can be gimped during his Up B, especially since I am planning to main him when I finally get the game. I guess I will just have to use his jumps more carefully, or just pwn enough not to get hit off the edge in the first place...

 

[kenja0]

Most likely, you won't fall off the edge, b/c if you don't have the jumps and you depend on UpB for a low recovery, you've played poorly. Most times I've encountered a Pit using that was way above to where I couldn't reach them. And I'm a Kirby player.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Did you miss/ignore my earlier question?

 

[Nicktendo]

New update soon?

Care to comment on tether recovery with olimar being gimped if someone is on the edge? Or etc. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142972

 

[Proven]

New update soon?

Care to comment on tether recovery with olimar being gimped if someone is on the edge? Or etc. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142972

Can anyone read more than the last page or two of a long thread? Especially when it's only 15 relatively short posts per page.

 

[Zenjamin]

So give me an explanation of how G-dorf is better than Lucario, a character who has combo ability, quick reactional ways to deal with most situations, decent recovery, a countering move, a strong and useful projectile, a close range grab that also functions as a mid-range attack, disjointed hitboxes galore and a Dair that allows him to disrupt the opponent's timing?

Ganondorf can suicide with his Side B and is very powerful, and he gets a whopping 2.5 points just because of this? Bowser can also suicide with his Side B and is much faster than Ganon. Why doesn't he get the same boost? As well as this, Ganon's aerials are so laggy that he'll most likely just get shieldgrabbed, or even up smashed. You haven't even mentioned the fact that he has some of the shortest jumps in the game, and no disjointed hitboxes at all.

quoting because I would like an answer as well.


anyways, to the people who say Olmar should be lowered... shut up.
Olmar is insane. My friend had Olmar for only two days, and... the things he was able to do, were scary.

Hey Brandon, do you have any DDD vs Olmar vids of your crew? because I need them bad.
Olmar is just faster then me, my Dees cant stop his projectiles fast enough, I cant really approach from the air least he teather me our of it, hes quick as hell... How The hell do you approach the little ****er? the whole game felt like a game of cat and mouse... only the mouse was faster then the cat and the whole time, little baby mice were eating away at the cat's unterbelly.

 

[Nicktendo]

I'm not saying Olimar should be lowered I know hes crazy, I'm only wondering about the up b recovery. Recovery dosent make the character look at falco in melee

 

[Nicktendo]

oops double post

 

[Yoshistar64]

Why is Pit's recovery 10 if he can't do anything when someone hits him during his UpB?

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Guys, I think it's time to accept that dmbrandon is dead.

 

[ZodiacDragon1014]

I think it's great that, at least in your little overview, that most of the characters are pretty well balanced, though your overview, as well as anyone else's should be still be taken lightly until the game reaches the Americas so that the rest of us can play and find out for ourselves.

 

[JFox]

Olimar needs to be reduced to a 7, maybe even a 6. Its so easy to gimp him simply by throwing him off and instant edgehogging. I guarentee that will hurt his game A LOT, maybe keeping him at mid tier or even lower. Its unfortunate...

Edit: Also I think the same should be done with Ivysaur and ZSS.

 

[Blade Knight]

D*mn You

You Didn't Review Kirby? REVIEW HIM NOW hes my melee main (and im good) AND I PLAN TO MAIN HIM AGAIN GIVE HIM A WELL THOUGHT OUT REVIEW NOW!!!!! on a lighter note my tie for main Captain Olimar=100% damage in 7 sec WITHOUT items+8/10=I chose the right new half main half secendary!

 

[Machspeed]

Olimar needs to be reduced to a 7, maybe even a 6. Its so easy to gimp him simply by throwing him off and instant edgehogging. I guarentee that will hurt his game A LOT, maybe keeping him at mid tier or even lower. Its unfortunate...

Edit: Also I think the same should be done with Ivysaur and ZSS.

Easier said than done; Olimar's Up + B can damage you, knocking you off, and camping invincibility frames on a ledge/rapidly ledge-grabbing so you don't get hit is much harder in Brawl. Also, with the floatiness of Brawl, Olimar can easily throw some Pikmin on his way DI'ing back to the stage, distracting you and making you unable to grab the ledge.

That's not to mention that Olimar's range on his tether, when he has 6 pikmin is far and he whips them out fairly fast.

 

[MookieRah]

I wouldn't go by this guy's opinions. Seriously, it's way to early to start ranking characters.

 

[HeroXL]

I wouldn't go by this guy's opinions. Seriously, it's way to early to start ranking characters.

THank you! I have played brawl as well and I disagree with alot of what this guy is saying.

 

[dmbrandon]

New update soon?

Care to comment on tether recovery with olimar being gimped if someone is on the edge? Or etc. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142972

It's easy to gimp a lot of characters. The fact is, olimar makes up for it in plenty of other ways, in FACT, I'm glad he can be gimped easily, it balances him out.

quoting because I would like an answer as well.


anyways, to the people who say Olmar should be lowered... shut up.
Olmar is insane. My friend had Olmar for only two days, and... the things he was able to do, were scary.

Hey Brandon, do you have any DDD vs Olmar vids of your crew? because I need them bad.
Olmar is just faster then me, my Dees cant stop his projectiles fast enough, I cant really approach from the air least he teather me our of it, hes quick as hell... How The hell do you approach the little ****er? the whole game felt like a game of cat and mouse... only the mouse was faster then the cat and the whole time, little baby mice were eating away at the cat's unterbelly.

Don't tell people to shut up, that's not how you make friends, Zen! ^_^

I'll post some, next time ether and ninja edd come over.

I wouldn't go by this guy's opinions. Seriously, it's way to early to start ranking characters.

Just becasue I didn't rate Lucario a 9, doesn't mean you should come in here telling people to not listen to me. I don't go around telling everyone that Taj's Mewtwo is like, a billion times better than yours, do I? No. Because I'm respectful to other people's threads. If you want attention, start posting vids of yourself beasting, and show them off.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Rofl,

How is Marth not at least a 9 when **** near all the melee pros who have played as him and seen him in action agree that he will most likely be number 1?

lollercoaster.

And yeah Olimar's damage output is crazy, but being gimped that hard is absurd and will really hurt him.

 

[dmbrandon]

Double post

THank you! I have played brawl as well and I disagree with alot of what this guy is saying.

While you have your opinions, this post you've made is pointless, since you can't back anything up. If I 'dissed' your main, don't get pissed at me because I think he sucks. If you have relevant information that you're withholding, then you're a jerk for not sharing it with the community.

That, is my opinion.

Diem is alive

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Once again, you are still ignoring my previous post, even when it's been quoted by another guy who wants the same explanation.

You're credibility is going to take a hit if you don't explain these things so people can understand you. The vague descriptions you put there won't cut it, especially when they're rather dubious. (I.E. you guys are not the only ones with the game. Loads of other players will tell you that Lucario's smash attacks are not lacking in range.)

 

[mosk123]

You rated most of them well.
Good reviews, quite helpful actually :D

Just a few thoughts though, even though i probably don't matter.
I recon Meta Knight deserves abit more, he does good damage, he can knockback well, good comboing, good speed, i would say about 8 atleast. Thats just my opinion.

And ive played with both Marth and Ike, i recon Marth is really bad in comparison to Ike, i recon if you switched the ratings around, it would be more inappropriate. And B+UP Ike Attack is one of my favourite attacks in the game haha.

Finally, ZSS is good! Hah, maybe i just love her. Shes awesome in my eyes

Ah oh well, as i said this is just my view and i bet that the community will think the original poster is more write.

 

[dmbrandon]

You rated most of them well.
Good reviews, quite helpful actually :D

Just a few thoughts though, even though i probably don't matter.
I recon Meta Knight deserves abit more, he does good damage, he can knockback well, good comboing, good speed, i would say about 8 atleast. Thats just my opinion.

And ive played with both Marth and Ike, i recon Marth is really bad in comparison to Ike, i recon if you switched the ratings around, it would be more inappropriate. And B+UP Ike Attack is one of my favourite attacks in the game haha.

Finally, ZSS is good! Hah, maybe i just love her. Shes awesome in my eyes

Ah oh well, as i said this is just my view and i bet that the community will think the original poster is more write.

Metaknight will be receiving a boost.

Marth is better. Some think he deserves #1 status.

And no... She's just not good lol. I've been trying with her constantly, and she can't pressure, her attacks,while the range is good, the hitbox is small. Her ko attacks are lacking.

Once again, you are still ignoring my previous post, even when it's been quoted by another guy who wants the same explanation.

You're credibility is going to take a hit if you don't explain these things so people can understand you. The vague descriptions you put there won't cut it, especially when they're rather dubious. (I.E. you guys are not the only ones with the game. Loads of other players will tell you that Lucario's smash attacks are not lacking in range.)

The word dubious is used slightly out of context. If you're going to use obscure words, go the full nine. Sorry for not responding to every poster. 600 posts is a bit much to manage. Odds are I wrote your post off as unimportant as it was answered within the thread, or the question proposed was not of significance to the thread.

That, or I just missed it. And I don't care if my credibility is damaged, or you think my descriptions are vague. The thread is an outline for new players, and this is something I am keeping as a favor to the community. I'm no martyr, kid, and I'm not about to be pressured for something as trivial as a forum.

If it has to do with Lucario, her rating might even be too high from what I've seen. Not one person has been able to utilize her attacks to get past the higher ranked characters.

Also, sometime in the next few days, expect major changes to Yoshi, MetaKnight and Link.

Link players will not be happy.

 

[Nicktendo]

Major changes to Yoshi? Improvement? Worse?

Im really curious

 

[mosk123]

Ah ok thanks.
maybe im really bad at marth then.
but ike is awesome for me.

yeah i guess ZSS isn't that good.
but shes so much fun, now that u mention it, whenever the foe has high percent (150%+) she doesnt have many hard hitting attacks.

but oh well

 

[dmbrandon]

Ah ok thanks.
maybe im really bad at marth then.
but ike is awesome for me.

yeah i guess ZSS isn't that good.
but shes so much fun, now that u mention it, whenever the foe has high percent (150%+) she doesnt have many hard hitting attacks.

but oh well

Don't give up on her, though. Maybe you'll find something I can't. As for Marth being better, if you like Ike, then play Ike. Tiers are a guide, just like these ratings, but any character can win a tourn, given the right person.

It's never the wand. It's always the wizard.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

It is less about Lucario and more about Ganondorf in comparison.

You say that Lucario has trouble getting past higher tier characters and yet Ganondorf scores higher? Even Gimpy had trouble making Ganon work against YOSHI in a competitive setting, wheras I've seen plenty of excellent Lucario players making the character "work."

Seriously, look outside your little group once in a while. You'd be surprised that there are actually *gasp* some good players out there who have also been testing the game. The fact that you chose to ignore the Yoshi boards and their analysis proves this.

 

[dmbrandon]

It is less about Lucario and more about Ganondorf in comparison.

You say that Lucario has trouble getting past higher tier characters and yet Ganondorf scores higher? Even Gimpy had trouble making Ganon work against YOSHI in a competitive setting, wheras I've seen plenty of excellent Lucario players making the character "work."

Seriously, look outside your little group once in a while. You'd be surprised that there are actually *gasp* some good players out there who have also been testing the game. The fact that you chose to ignore the Yoshi boards and their analysis proves this.

Yoshi has one approach. The Bair. With the decline in power, as ht emove is used, Yoshi has a hard time.

The next time you mention Gimpy to me, will be the last time your question will be answered. If you get M2k, or someone of ACTUAL importance to tell me how Ganon is bad, then I'll care about your little messenger boy antics.

Vanish, please.

Edit: any character can 'work.' You just have to be good.

 

[LaughterIsDeadly]

Edit: any character can 'work.' You just have to be good.

...well that is what scrubs said about characters in the start of melee. well, maybe you're right...

but none of it really matters. It's fun to theorise right now but none of this can be taken to seriously. We don't know what kind of tech or play styles will develope later on for each character.

I'm taking screen shots of early predictions to see how different they are to the real thing in a year or 2 from now. lol

 

[dmbrandon]

...well that is what scrubs said about characters in the start of melee. well, maybe you're right...

but none of it really matters. It's fun to theorise right now but none of this can be taken to seriously. We don't know what kind of tech or play styles will develope later on for each character.

I'm taking screen shots of early predictions to see how different they are to the real thing in a year or 2 from now. lol

Sick! Take mine, and I hope it's close. I can be one of those gay prophet dudes everyone talks about.

 

[mosk123]

Don't give up on her, though. Maybe you'll find something I can't. As for Marth being better, if you like Ike, then play Ike. Tiers are a guide, just like these ratings, but any character can win a tourn, given the right person.

It's never the wand. It's always the wizard.

Haha
love the wizard quote

Ok thank you heaps.

Yeah all characters can be awesome if used with the right person.

Btw; what exactly do you mean by 'Tier'
nooby question

 

[Zoz0]

Thanks for taking the time to post your impressions dmbrandon. And for answering all the, mostly rude, questions.

Looking at the list it's interesting to see 20 different characters rated between 7 and 9. This seems like you feel there is alot of balance in the roster. Or would you say characters with a score of 8.5 - 9 have a significant advantage over someone with a 7?

 

[Smash Ninja]

Since you have not answered my previous post, could you at the very least tell me why you refuse to play Kirby?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Yoshi has one approach. The Bair. With the decline in power, as ht emove is used, Yoshi has a hard time.

The next time you mention Gimpy to me, will be the last time your question will be answered. If you get M2k, or someone of ACTUAL importance to tell me how Ganon is bad, then I'll care about your little messenger boy antics.

Vanish, please.

Edit: any character can 'work.' You just have to be good.

I'm actually quite surprised that you even NEED someone of importance to tell you how bad Ganon is. Bashing Yoshi for his limited approach and then praising Ganon is pretty hypocritical, considering that the only aerial move Ganon can afford to use close to the ground is his Uar, and his ground game mostly consists of Side B and "hope-your-opponent-doesn't-see-it-coming-a-mile-off" tilts. His fastest moves are his jab and up smash, both of which have no disjointed hitboxes and limited range. Projectile users like Lucas have a field day. And it's not like Ganon has tricks to get his hits in like Ike and Dedede do.

Then on the topic of Lucario, you say he doesn't have any approach either, but I couldn't help but notice that nobody in your group actually uses his extremely fast and effective disjointed-hitbox laden tilts. All the Lucario gameplay I've seen coming from Montage consists of Lucario using mostly his slow smash attacks and the occasional down air. No clever use of his down B or Side B at close range, etc and not one up tilt! Lucario has plenty of ways to advance on the opponent, much more so than Ganon. And unlike Ganon, he doesn't just have to rely on two moves to get opponents off his case.

Basically, I'd just like a bit more explanation on how you came up with some of the stranger ratings, especially since the rest of your impressions seem spot on. And why on earth does Ganon get a massive 2.5 boost from being able to suicide with his Side B and having a bit of power, while other characters with much more important edits end up getting 1.0's or 0.5's.

And also, oh thank you so much for stating the obvious about any character "working" if you're good. But that's not what I was talking about. Your assessment of the character's strengths and weaknesses are incorrect by majority and I'm pointing it out: Lucario does not have any problems with the range of his smash attacks, since all of them include disjointed hitboxes. His Fsmash has about the same range as Ike's Fsmash, which is widely accepted to be a move with "awesome range".