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Noir's Advance Technique/Reseach and Discussion.
- Thread starter OoNoiRoO
- Start date
Niko_K
Smash Master
You obviously didn't read the rest of my post....
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Yes I did. Thanks again.
-Syn
-Syn
SamDvds
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2005
- Messages
- 734
i think this is related to the spamming of 1 move reducing damage/knockback but in training mode it does not do this. if you notice the first falco lazer does 3%. after being spammed, only does 1% damage each, and with each one the knockback decreases until it reaches the lowest ammount. I think this is why it works...the opponent has so little knockback from the lazer they just keep falling into the next one.
Niko_K
Smash Master
In an attempt to make this useful....
Slingshot Bomber Edgeguard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqL_h12v3Gs
Would definitely be unexpected...the first time.
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
It's already been noted that Falco's laser has a set knockback, but I'm not sure if these things are related, it could still suffer from the stale moves thing.
Niko_K
Smash Master
NEW: Even when using the slingshot bomber you still go the same distance +1 spacing
K1T3
Smash Lord
I don't know if anyone has addressed this or actually tested it at a slower speed in training mode but from what I can tell in the bit that I played and the vids I've seen Smash DI and Auto Smash DI appear to be out... At least I havn't seen any instances of it working. If I'm wrong please let me know.
So what this would mean if it's true is that you wouldn't be able to get out of the laser lock with DI because there is no S or AS DI. This also corresponds with the fact that you can now trap people by a wall with rapid A attacks. You could not do this in melee because of S and AS DI, but could do it in 64 where there was no DI. Also that I'm pretty sure the Laser is a non techable move like Fox or Peachs dair in melee so you can't get out by teching.
If S and AS DI are out I wouldn't be suprised to find several other ways of trapping people on walls even floating them along the ground like the laser trick with other non techable moves.
Edit: Ignore about S/AS DI, they're still in =)
So what this would mean if it's true is that you wouldn't be able to get out of the laser lock with DI because there is no S or AS DI. This also corresponds with the fact that you can now trap people by a wall with rapid A attacks. You could not do this in melee because of S and AS DI, but could do it in 64 where there was no DI. Also that I'm pretty sure the Laser is a non techable move like Fox or Peachs dair in melee so you can't get out by teching.
If S and AS DI are out I wouldn't be suprised to find several other ways of trapping people on walls even floating them along the ground like the laser trick with other non techable moves.
Edit: Ignore about S/AS DI, they're still in =)
tect
Smash Journeyman
bump .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKNKH7EpuLE
Somebody else discovered how to reverse jump. I'm thinking it will prove quite useful.
Somebody else discovered how to reverse jump. I'm thinking it will prove quite useful.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
Can we call the "running forward and doing a bAir while keeping forward momentum" a "Flying bAir"?
I like it because it's really fun to say and very simple to remember.
EDIT:
Go ahead and say it aloud.
"Flying bAir"
Let it just sink in.
"Flying bAir"
Don't you like it?
I like it because it's really fun to say and very simple to remember.
EDIT:
Go ahead and say it aloud.
"Flying bAir"
Let it just sink in.
"Flying bAir"
Don't you like it?
Circle_Breaker
Smash Journeyman
I like RAR, seriously, stick with that.
WastingPenguins
Smash Ace
RAR is silly. Can't we just call it something that makes sense and ISN'T a cryptic acronym? That way we won't have to constantly explain to people what RAR means for the next year. You know an acronym is bad when you can tell someone what the letters stand for and they still wouldn't understand what it meant. Just silly, let's call it a reverse bair and be done with it.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
What does RAR stand for?
I can make sense of "Reverse Aerial __?__".
I can make sense of "Reverse Aerial __?__".
WastingPenguins
Smash Ace
"Reverse aerial rush."
Case in point, guys. Who wants to have to answer this question 10 thousand times? It's kind of a misnomer anyway because it doesn't have to be used in any kind of "rush". I get the WoP-esque Toon Link rush, but Ike's reverse bair is just that-- one bair.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
Yea, I don't really like RAR. I think the name should have bAir in there somewhere, otherwise it just sounds like a special move or FS or something, not to mention that "RAR" doesn't really roll off the tongue (which is very important, believe it or not).
C'mon guys... "FLYING bAIR"!!!
Or... I guess "reverse bAir"... however bland that is.
C'mon guys... "FLYING bAIR"!!!
Or... I guess "reverse bAir"... however bland that is.
The reason I suggested Reverse Jump is because you're not limited to a bair while doing it. It's not hinged upon what air you do, but rather the way you jump. RJ Bair, or Dair, or even Fair. How bout that?
WastingPenguins
Smash Ace
Yeah, even reverse Uair is applicable in cases like Ganon. Do we really need "jump" though? Of course you jump, it's an aerial.
Reverse uair, reverse bair, etc. Simple, easy to understand. "I did an ftilt then dashed into a reverse bair." See?
Well it was always SH Bair, wasn't it? The Jump lets your listener latch on to the fact that you're in the air more easily, otherwise you might get them saying to themselves "what? you were running then you did a what bair?" Maybe that's just how I see it. 
WastingPenguins
Smash Ace
I don't know. I wouldn't say "I dashed into a jumped fair" because, well... it's a fair, of course I jumped. Don't know, that's my two cents anyway.Well it was always SH Bair, wasn't it? The Jump lets your listener latch on to the fact that you're in the air more easily, otherwise you might get them saying to themselves "what? you were running then you did a what bair?" Maybe that's just how I see it.
This is my idea for naming the "Reverse Jump" thing:
Pivot Dash Jump (or Pivot Jump for short)
What you're basically doing is dashing, turning around (pivoting) and then jumping to be able to do an aerial you wouldn't normally be able to do (B-air) going in that momentum because in most cases you'd be facing your opponent. You cancel the dash with the pivot and then jump to continue your momentum while traveling backwards towards your opponent.
"I PJ'd into a Bair" or "PDJ'd into a Uair"
You can use your imagination for the rest.
Alternatively, it could be named "Pivot Dash Cancel"
Pivot Dash Jump (or Pivot Jump for short)
What you're basically doing is dashing, turning around (pivoting) and then jumping to be able to do an aerial you wouldn't normally be able to do (B-air) going in that momentum because in most cases you'd be facing your opponent. You cancel the dash with the pivot and then jump to continue your momentum while traveling backwards towards your opponent.
"I PJ'd into a Bair" or "PDJ'd into a Uair"
You can use your imagination for the rest.
Alternatively, it could be named "Pivot Dash Cancel"
What I think would be hilarious is if Sakurai intentionally left a big gap between the Japanese and US release dates so that everyone would find all the physics exploits and he could remove them in the later versions. Now, honestly I doubt this since I'm pretty sure the game is already being packaged up for shipping and it's doubtful they'd have enough time to do any major physics/mechanics adjustments at this point, but still I think it would be insanely funny to see all of these "advanced techniques" suddenly not be there in the US release.
NESSBOUNDER
Smash Master
I will be very upset if this technique's name ends up as anything other than RAR.
The only thing I see with that is that it's not a pivot. There was pivot jumping in Melee, and technically to pivot you have to do it during your initial dash. That is not what this is.
I had actually thought of adding Dash to Reverse Jump, giving you "Reverse Dash Jump" which is about as bang on as I think you could get. Like you said, take out the Dash part for short.
I thought of this too.
Just because Pivot Jumping was one thing in Melee doesn't mean it has to be the same in Brawl.
With the nerf of the Dash dance I don't think anyone is going to use the Melee Pivot Jump anymore in Brawl.
So Pivot Jumping would now be a different thing in Brawl. It IS a new game after all.
P.S. That cat is giving me seizures.
With the nerf of the Dash dance I don't think anyone is going to use the Melee Pivot Jump anymore in Brawl.
So Pivot Jumping would now be a different thing in Brawl. It IS a new game after all.
P.S. That cat is giving me seizures.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
But do you still keep the same momentum when doing the move with a dAir and uAir?
Obviously you can keep the momentum with a fAir, but were the other two really proven/shown?
Obviously you can keep the momentum with a fAir, but were the other two really proven/shown?
WastingPenguins
Smash Ace
Except for wifi being compatible worldwide. It's gonna be the exact same game, people, no changes.
DBurke
Smash Cadet
Reverse Aerial Rush is dumb. Whether or not you're rushing is completely interpretive and a horrible idea for a name. Reverse jump is exactly what the technique is. I will from now on call it the Reverse Jump(RJ) until someone gives a better name for it, which I doubt will happen. RAR was funny, but not practical. Get over it.
well "reverse" jump may also be misinterpreted just as Reverse Aerial Rush was a bit confusing. Just the "reverse" part itself. Just because it's so generic.
I still like "Pivot Jump" because that's what you're doing. You're running and facing one direction then you Pivot to face the other direction and then jump all the while keeping your momentum allowing you to use your B-air as an approach instead of only your F-air.
I still like "Pivot Jump" because that's what you're doing. You're running and facing one direction then you Pivot to face the other direction and then jump all the while keeping your momentum allowing you to use your B-air as an approach instead of only your F-air.
Phyvo
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2007
- Messages
- 289
owwwwwwwwwwwww..... my virgin eyes!
Please do something about that sig. I can't read your posts with it flashing in my face. In fact, any time it's on the screen it makes it hard to read anything at all. And it probably could give someone seizures. Heck, blinking red/orange hurts my eyes less than that...
Mama
Smash Ace
I think threads like this are a waste of time. Stop wasting time trying to make new "advanced techniques" and focus on learning the mechanics of the game itself. Not saying to just flat out forget advanced techniques but I'm pretty sure that none of them were found in ways like this.
Its like not being able to see the forest because of too many trees. If you want advanced play learn the mechanics of things that scrubs wont even bother to learn like the fact that spamming a move reduces its effectiveness and stuff like that.
And I'm hearing conflicting arguments all over the place about Float-canceling. Some say its out others say its so good that you can cancel the float cancel animation and just slide (like w/dashing)
Its like not being able to see the forest because of too many trees. If you want advanced play learn the mechanics of things that scrubs wont even bother to learn like the fact that spamming a move reduces its effectiveness and stuff like that.
And I'm hearing conflicting arguments all over the place about Float-canceling. Some say its out others say its so good that you can cancel the float cancel animation and just slide (like w/dashing)
DBurke
Smash Cadet
What are you talking about? How is the word reverse anymore generic than pivot? It's not. The fact is that you're not going to be able to detail the process of the move in a short name. Get over it. Pivot is coined into a different mechanic of the game. That is confusing. Reverse jump remains the best name. Stop talking about it and start talking about Advance Techniques.
Phyvo
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2007
- Messages
- 289
In nearly all ways these two things are basically the same. People just plug AT in front of any mechanic which is not immediately obvious and which a player can use to his advantage.
DBurke
Smash Cadet
In case you haven't noticed, it was implied that when trying to make and find new advanced techniques we were going to study the basic mechanics of the game. I appreciate you probably trying to speak out against people who are just trying to coin terms, but this thread has brought so much to the table already that to call it a waste of time just means that you haven't read a **** post in here. Which makes you a troll/flamer. Read or don't read, but if you're not going to be constructive, leave. Dealing with people arguing about names is ridiculous enough.
Mama
Smash Ace
Ever heard of constructive criticism? Lol. I read the first post and skimmed the others. The info here is in a lot of other threads so its not like this one is god. And simply learning of the existence of a mechanic that is not obvious and then slapping "advanced technique" on it is not discovering anything. Advanced play is not calling everything a technique or coining names. Its about learning the game and parts of the game that others wont even bother to and utilizing that. The use of the word advanced technique is almost becoming as ridiculously over rated (by scrubs mostly and pros as well) as wave dashing.
Brawl goes beyond techniques which is where I see it shining leagues beyond Melee. An in depth character mechanic and discussion would be much better since techniques that work for some characters are not universal this time around like L-canceling and wave dashing were. The way an advanced player plays with one character may have a ton of little "techniques" and strategies that would never be used with another character or possibly even another player since characters are just that deep this time. Where as in Melee there was almost one way to play every character. I see the character guides for Brawl taking on more of a general strategy/esoteric info role rather than a "how to play"
My point, rather than trying to find advanced techniques, learn the mechanics whether that be doing the exact same thing under a different moniker or stopping and just playing a match and watching the details
DBurke
Smash Cadet
Didn't my last post clarify this? We find the game mechanics and abuse them. Your little scenario of nubs finding a mechanic and only coining a term has nothing to do with what this thread is about. With the way you "skimmed the other" posts proves that you don't have a firm grasp on what we've been doing in the thread. People who make constructive criticism are constructive, how do you expect to come into the thread knowing little or nothing about it and be constructive by telling us what we're doing wrong? Please, get over yourself. And I have no idea what you're trying to say in your last sentence, but I'm sure it doesn't matter.
What a bunch of regurgitated crap. Where did you get that? Let me guess, you read it in another thread, right? Look, what do you think discussing character mechanics and techniques is? It's finding advanced techniques! You're doing nothing but suggesting the same idea with a different name, which you even blatantly suggested! You're adding absolutely nothing to this thread. Constructive criticism my ***. If you have some information about a "game mechanic" then add it, if not stop filling the thread with worthless flames.
lol it's funny you say he's flaming when that's what you've been doing all along. I was just putting in my 2 cents about the name. No need to go all PMS on the subject. If you want to change the subject then do so. You're not adding anything either to this thread by cutting down everyone who brings something up.
(watch him flame my post now lol)
(watch him flame my post now lol)
DBurke
Smash Cadet
I'm pretty sure that's the most hypocritical thing I've ever read on smash boards. My posts aren't meant to be flames, I was just trying to point out when someone isn't adding anything and has made a useless post. I do this in the hopes that people will just keep their opinions to themselves unless it's constructive. Your post is equally if not more so as useless as mine. My posts regarding your inane ability to stay off-topic end as soon as people start talking about techniques again.
Trust me, if I had information to post about techniques or mechanics I would be posting that. But I don't, and it seems that neither does anyone else. For that reason there should be no new posts here. And if I was a mod, I would delete every single post, including my own, that had nothing to do with techniques or mechanics.
I never intended to change the subject. I want "their" "subject" to end.
Mama
Smash Ace
Lol yea I don't think I went for the guys nuts in my post. If he wants to go on a rampage though I say allow it since words only seem to harm him. I wont even justify his flames with a direct response.
(he'll flame this post too)
Mama
Smash Ace
I'm going to add to your woes and double post here lol.
I was on subject when I said that I didn't agree with the thread. You got off topic when you said you didn't agree with my post. At least I was talking about the thread right? You didn't need to play hero of thread and start trying to flame me to no avail. And the whole idea of a forum and threads are to express opinions. Getting upset and flaming someone for doing so is very childish. I think you should take a moment and reflect. Hopefully you'll understand that. After your first response I went and read through a good part of the thread and it is better than I thought but the first post and few pages were what I was really referring to. But you do what you like. To each his own.