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Noir's Advance Technique/Reseach and Discussion.
- Thread starter OoNoiRoO
- Start date
tect
Smash Journeyman
maybe i should have read yeroc's post a little more clearly. nvm. i have no further questions
Hitaku
Smash Journeyman
In have posted this in the Falco thread, but I also think it needs to be here.
The other night I was messing around with my friend and he was playing as Snake. I found something that I am calling the Laser Lock (call it what you will, this is what I am choosing to call it). When any character falls down onto his stomach after being knocked down, if Falco is spamming his laser the character will be locked and unable to move until he is eventually knocked off the ledge (unless something comes in between them). Note that this can only be done on a flat surface because the character needs to stay in position.
I have tested this against Snake, Sonic, Sheik, Ike, and Jigglypuff so far. I believe this works on every character in the game. Yes I understand that this is situational, but it's still very useful. Once in this lock you can't break out until something interrupts the flow of lasers (cannot DI out of it).
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwaa_Lt9sqQ
The other night I was messing around with my friend and he was playing as Snake. I found something that I am calling the Laser Lock (call it what you will, this is what I am choosing to call it). When any character falls down onto his stomach after being knocked down, if Falco is spamming his laser the character will be locked and unable to move until he is eventually knocked off the ledge (unless something comes in between them). Note that this can only be done on a flat surface because the character needs to stay in position.
I have tested this against Snake, Sonic, Sheik, Ike, and Jigglypuff so far. I believe this works on every character in the game. Yes I understand that this is situational, but it's still very useful. Once in this lock you can't break out until something interrupts the flow of lasers (cannot DI out of it).
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwaa_Lt9sqQ
Magus420
Smash Master
If there's a wall does the timing get messed up or is it infinite?
S.R. XXVII
Smash Ace
That Falco tech looks broken...
Hitaku
Smash Journeyman
Infinite combo =P
Magus420
Smash Master
...nice =/
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
Wow Sakurai, way to make an infinite combo retartedly easy to accomplish.
This is easier than the wobble.
By the way, is the wobble still in? Lolz.
This is easier than the wobble.
By the way, is the wobble still in? Lolz.
Niko_K
Smash Master
Eh, that snake didn't look like it was DI'ing....or is the hitstun too strong?
tect
Smash Journeyman
why does it make a difference when he's shot off the ledge? wouldn't it still juggle? because in the video, he isn't hitting the ground until about 0:15. couldn't it be teched then? i know it's been made clear that it's infinite until he reaches the ledge, but these are a few questions i have
edit:
also, is the knockback set on the laser? i would imagine that it is, it would seem ridiculous if it wasn't. my point is that the knockback isn't set on fox's reflector (correct me if i'm wrong?) which prevents the infinite-shine from being performed until 1278569%
i like laserlock btw ^__^
edit:
also, is the knockback set on the laser? i would imagine that it is, it would seem ridiculous if it wasn't. my point is that the knockback isn't set on fox's reflector (correct me if i'm wrong?) which prevents the infinite-shine from being performed until 1278569%
i like laserlock btw ^__^
Kio Iranez
Smash Ace
Not a problem. We can just ban all stages with walls....or disqualify the guy that laserlocks for a certain amount of time.
tect
Smash Journeyman
my friend who has brawl said that he had trouble performing the laser trick on an inactive computer (in training mode) the video has an inactive 2P with no input. could you try this again against a comp in training mode and post a video? what about DI?
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
Does everyone not know what smash DI is? XP
Edit - I realize he said you can't DI out of it, but I'm going to assume the person trying to DI didn't know about smash DI.
Edit - I realize he said you can't DI out of it, but I'm going to assume the person trying to DI didn't know about smash DI.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Well, even though Smash DI is really hard on moves with small amounts of hitlag (like lasers) I guess since you've got nothing better to do, and have a million times to try it, you'll simply have to get out that way.
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
If it's like Melee, you can just hold the C-stick in a direction and it will do it automatically.
Does the quarter-circle DI with both sticks work on things like this? That would probably be your best bet I guess.
Also, if people are having trouble pulling it off it must take some tight timing. You have to consider that with DI, not many people will get close enough to the ground for you to do this either. At least not in a stunned position anyways, since they can airdodge/jump out of it.
Also, if people are having trouble pulling it off it must take some tight timing. You have to consider that with DI, not many people will get close enough to the ground for you to do this either. At least not in a stunned position anyways, since they can airdodge/jump out of it.
tect
Smash Journeyman
also, they need to be bouncing as the same friend pointed out
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^^That's ASDI (automatic smash DI) which is different. ASDI only goes about half as far as SDI, and it's only read on the last frame of hitlag. It's also called automatic because the game just reads the position your control stick is in and uses that. The c-stick does the exact same thing but outprioritizes the control stick. That means that if you have your c-stick in one direction and your control stick in another the ASDI will be taken from the c-stick, while the Normal DI will still be taken from the control stick like it always is.
When he said you can't DI out of it, I assume he was holding the direction during the hit. That means that he was already applying ASDI (whether he knew it or not) and that wasn't enough to get him out of the lock.
Hitaku, you did make sure to DI the lasers up right. If that was the case, then normal DI and ASDI aren't enough, and the only option is to smash DI.
To reiterate how to smash DI, since the above poster got it wrong, you have to tap the control stick in a direction during the hitlag of an attack. You can do this on every frame of hitlag, however you can't SDI twice in a row in the exact same direction. That's because you'll be holding one direction on one frame, and tapping the same direction on the next frame. The game will read that as you simply holding the direction (because it can't read anything in between) and won't give you the SDI.
See if that can get you out of the lock (1 or maybe 2 SDI's should suffice.) The best way to ensure a succesfull SDI is to roll the control stick from more horizontal to more vertical during the time that you are getting hit. This allows you to get multiple SDIs, though the timming is still pretty tricky.
When he said you can't DI out of it, I assume he was holding the direction during the hit. That means that he was already applying ASDI (whether he knew it or not) and that wasn't enough to get him out of the lock.
Hitaku, you did make sure to DI the lasers up right. If that was the case, then normal DI and ASDI aren't enough, and the only option is to smash DI.
To reiterate how to smash DI, since the above poster got it wrong, you have to tap the control stick in a direction during the hitlag of an attack. You can do this on every frame of hitlag, however you can't SDI twice in a row in the exact same direction. That's because you'll be holding one direction on one frame, and tapping the same direction on the next frame. The game will read that as you simply holding the direction (because it can't read anything in between) and won't give you the SDI.
See if that can get you out of the lock (1 or maybe 2 SDI's should suffice.) The best way to ensure a succesfull SDI is to roll the control stick from more horizontal to more vertical during the time that you are getting hit. This allows you to get multiple SDIs, though the timming is still pretty tricky.
Hitaku
Smash Journeyman
The stun from the laser prevents the DI. We have pressed all directions on the controller and buttons.
When he is shot off the ledge he would just snap on and grab the ledge. The Knockback is set on the laser.
I did some more testing on other character and it seems harder to do on some...Sonic and Young link for example tend to be harder to start it with. They also break out of it randomly. Maybe it can't be done infinitely on those characters...I will try more.
Here is a Video of the Infinite Laserlock on Sheik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UTpaKhElhk
I will try.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
Is wobbling in Brawl?
Someone answer me, QUICK!!!
Someone answer me, QUICK!!!
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
Oh yeah, I forgot about an important part of smash DI. Thanks for explaining.
Hitaku
Smash Journeyman
I just tried to DI out of it and I couldn't. I'm not sure how I can prove it to you all that I am DI'ing simply because it doesn't have any effect once in the lock. A video would be useless. If someone else in the future is able to DI out of it I tip my hat to them. I don't think its possible.
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
This will probably sound stupid, but did you try to tech out of it?
Niko_K
Smash Master
What about air dodge between hitstuns?
Hitaku
Smash Journeyman
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
Hmm. Even if it is unable to be broken out of, I'm sure it won't be a big deal. I'm sure missing a tech will be even harder with the new addition of less frames where you are tumbling and can't do anything. Plus, it's not a guaranteed KO except maybe on walk off edges.
tect
Smash Journeyman
yeah heh, like when you do it off of a platform
Niko_K
Smash Master
10char****
Magus420
Smash Master
Speaking of which...
Hitaku, sorry if you've already addressed this and I overlooked it, but what does happen if you do it starting from a platform where there's no grabbable ledge for them to snap onto to end it. Does it carry them through the air and they die off the side or do they lose height and get out? Actually, are the edges of platforms grabbable in this game?
Hitaku
Smash Journeyman
I agree, its not going to be anything huge. With all of the air dodging mid air and slow frames, a good player won't often fall into this. Also everyone please keep in mind that I am not saying that this is amazing lol. I would love just as much as the rest of you to find a way to break out of this.
I have not talked about this yet, if the target reaches a ledge that has no grabbing effect they just fall off.
Edit: Sorry forgot to answer your second question, no not all playforms have grab able edges.
Can you try and reproduce this? The fact that you were next to that destructible statue makes me wonder...
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
That's interesting Niko_K.
How do you do that? And exactly what happens?
It looks like Peach starts her bomber, then halts, then does it a second later.
How do you do that? And exactly what happens?
It looks like Peach starts her bomber, then halts, then does it a second later.
Niko_K
Smash Master
Video is just really laggy, I am trying to replicate this right now.
basically what happens is you start your peach bomber on one side of a platform and land right on the edge of the other side which then bounces you off for your next attack.
It is really impractical.
basically what happens is you start your peach bomber on one side of a platform and land right on the edge of the other side which then bounces you off for your next attack.
It is really impractical.
SynikaL
Smash Lord
SynikaL's Brawl Impressions Thread said:
Can anyone mess around with this for me? Has anyone already?
-Kimosabae
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
Isn't this just an edge cancel?
Niko_K
Smash Master
Most likely, but the way it works is pretty neat...back facing your opponent inbtween the first set of triangle *closest to the middle* peach bomb towards the edge making your opponent think your an idiot and will run after you, This is when you bounce and the animation will end UNDERNEATH the sweetspot of FD...you can then float into uair.
This would be epic mindgames if I can pull it off tomorrow in a match. I will keep you posted.
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty9VRiRwV2s
This would be epic mindgames if I can pull it off tomorrow in a match. I will keep you posted.
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty9VRiRwV2s
SynikaL
Smash Lord
Niko, did you see my post? :/
-Syn
-Syn
Niko_K
Smash Master
Your friend must think this is still Melee, the air dodge invincibility frames start relatively late in relation to when you press the button, and they definitely end before you hit the stage.
UNLESS you SHFF them.
eet
Smash Ace
So I played again today, and made another realiziation.
For people who have down aerials that send them straight down (Sheik, Sonic, etc..) If you get hit up by the enemy instead of jumping and you use the down aerial, it wont send you downwards, but rather acts as a normal aerial in the air.
This can be useful for timing downaerial when being juggled or for starting combos.
For people who have down aerials that send them straight down (Sheik, Sonic, etc..) If you get hit up by the enemy instead of jumping and you use the down aerial, it wont send you downwards, but rather acts as a normal aerial in the air.
This can be useful for timing downaerial when being juggled or for starting combos.