No L-canceling confirmed in final game.

[Hydde]

""""I think it ends Smash's position as a high speed tech-fest""""

The way you say it is the way we all fell... It makes me sad to no end to think taht we will not see the fast paced and crazy skilled battles of melee. It really makes me sad.

We can just only hope to find another way to make brawl hughly competitively and fun.


My worst fear is that in the near future... people would dispatch brawl and return to melee for high technical battles..
That would make brawl fail in my eyes..

lets hope this will not be the case.

 

[XSilvenX]

""""I think it ends Smash's position as a high speed tech-fest""""

The way you say it is the way we all fell... It makes me sad to no end to think taht we will not see the fast paced and crazy skilled battles of melee. It really makes me sad.

We can just only hope to find another way to make brawl hughly competitively and fun.


My worst fear is that in the near future... people would dispatch brawl and return to melee for high technical battles..
That would make brawl fail in my eyes..

lets hope this will not be the case.

I was thinking the same thing...but you know if Brawl does end-up failing we can urge them to patch it so that it includes all the advanced techniques that made Melee so competitive and fun ^_^

 

[Sliq]

Brawl is going to blow. End of story.

 

[Hydde]

double post for the lose.

 

[Hydde]

I was thinking the same thing...but you know if Brawl does end-up failing we can urge them to patch it so that it includes all the advanced techniques that made Melee so competitive and fun ^_^

highly doubt it.

 

[D1]

Hmm...

...Silven are you @ school now?

I'm in the computer lab bored and have class @ 6pm -_-.

I'm still gonna play Brawl and have fun playing online w/ minimal lag after aerials...

 

[Kimosabae]

I'm still gonna play Brawl and have fun playing online w/ minimal lag after aerials...

Unless you want to play Ganon, then you're fvcked.

People are bringing up spacing...have you ever been to a tournament? When has spacing ever NOT been of the utmost importance?



-SynikaL

 

[Rang Flash]

I've noticed in some of the Japanese full-game videos that Falcon's knee somtimes has lag and sometimes it looks like it's been l-canceled. Look at this video for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGcvQqUFN7U

In the second match, falcon does a short-hopped knee at around 4:30 and he has no lag whatsoever. However, every other time I see falcon do a knee it has tons of lag.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

I've noticed in some of the Japanese full-game videos that Falcon's knee somtimes has lag and sometimes it looks like it's been l-canceled. Look at this video for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGcvQqUFN7U

In the second match, falcon does a short-hopped knee at around 4:30 and he has no lag whatsoever. However, every other time I see falcon do a knee it has tons of lag.

I came up with 3 theories about Falcon Knee

1.) L(button) - cancel is still in
2.) Lag-cancel is in
3.)Height will determine your lag. For example, when Falcon did his first knee, it was a short hope and thus didnt really finish his knee animation. On his second knee, he though the whole animation and when he landed, he lagged.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

I've noticed in some of the Japanese full-game videos that Falcon's knee somtimes has lag and sometimes it looks like it's been l-canceled. Look at this video for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGcvQqUFN7U

In the second match, falcon does a short-hopped knee at around 4:30 and he has no lag whatsoever. However, every other time I see falcon do a knee it has tons of lag.

I came up with 3 theories about Falcon Knee

1.) L(button) - cancel is still in
2.) Lag-cancel is in
3.)Height will determine your lag. For example, when Falcon did his first knee, it was a short hope and thus didnt really finish his knee animation. On his second knee, he though the whole animation and when he landed, he lagged.

 

[Zenjamin]

Ok, If Lag canceling is out... i am seriously pissed.
I will feel guilty just for buying this game.

Ganon, DDD, and wario were the people who i was looking to main, and with no Lag cancel it looks like they will not be playable in competive play.

I never cared much about the roaster or any of the other things people have been *****ing about, but THIS is what should have the smash community up in arms.

all of the things that made Gimpy give the game a positive review, are now contradicted.
most all of the advanced techs he mentioned seemed to have been removed.

super armor was meant to further balance the game for the slower charcters... now we get THIS?
Meta knight intrests me, the only reason im looking towards my future in the brawl competive scene with any sign of hope.

but this is just plain stupid. FastFalled Lag-cancel was the perfect solution/compromise. Noobs could learn it easy without taking away from the competive scene.
the only reason I can see for all types of Lag cancel being taken out, is that the creator caved to the gameFAQ noobs who keep on *****ing about this stuff.
that he WANTED to hurt/limit the completive scene.
If you can think of any logical reason that Lag canceling was removed other then that, I an all ears, i still WANT to have hope.

Ganon- RIP
DDD- RIP
Bowser- RIP
Wario- RIP
Ike- RIP
ect...

 

[SheerMadness]

Smash will suck without L-canceling. Why on earth would they take out the most important technique from both the previous games. They ****ed up really bad.

 

[UltiMario]

From all the Vids we have seen, we know SOME FORM of L-cancelling is back. We've seen Lag that is supposed to happen, well, not happen.
I am certain there is L-Cancelling in Brawl, we just have to look for the steps a bit harder, I'm sure we will find it on accident or something.
When L-Cancelling is found again, I will be saying "I called it"

 

[G-X]

L-Canceling is probably in, bu in a different form.

It bewilders me that the game has been out for 11.5 hours and nobody has figured this out yet. Come on, Japanese gamers!

 

[Proven]

Ugh, two things I've seen no one mention at all.

1.) Shield pressure. Shield's weaken now much faster than they did before, without even being touched. You can't shield as much in this game, meaning that you have to dodge and space more.

2.) Greater separation of ground and air games. My biggest problem with shffling was the amount of characters that were higher up on the tier just because they had really great and easy to combo aerials, primarily Fox and Falco, and even in combination with their shines. This brings back the previous balance where you were supposed to be careful with an aerial to ground approach.

Yes, we have lag once more now. Lag that was designed to help balance this game or at least make sense. Power characters still have quick jabs and work best with spacing. Lighter characters that are going to end up knocked into the air a lot anyway have less lag to compensate. Why can't people just improve their ground game instead of wanting to rely on shffling in a game that was built around having it fundamentally removed?

 

[skrach8]

Once we figure out how to cancel animations, this game is going to be pretty noob at first.

But I had an idea of completely removing Lag Canceling. Maybe its still in but not so much on the ground anymore. I'm saying that if this game, as said by Sakurai, is focused more on arial battle, maybe.... just maybe .... animation can be canceled after making contact with an opponent, thus allowing you to get another attack out in the air.

I actually had a question about arials, I see alot of clips where people use their Fairs to stop their momentum after getting knocked off the stage. If this is true then maybe this has some connection to using arials to gain distance.

So technically it would go..... X throws Y up, does an arial and cancels the rest of the animation with L,R,Z after it connects, all the while X remains in range of Y because arials can directionally influence the one performing the attack.
This, i guess, would tie into wavelanding ($-slide). If certain attacks make you slide, they have some kind of directional influence.......... thats my idealistic theory.

Kinda like the GG series.

 

[peachori]

just because there's no consistent, one-button panacea to lag doesn't mean there wont be lag cancelling of any kind. calm down guys, the sky isnt falling just yet.

 

[Fku]

Ey, the game is very recent, calm down and waiting for "bugs" -_-.

RIP L cancel
RIP Wavedash

 

[Magus420]

Wow, that ganon vid was really bad.
I guess spacing is all we have for against shieldgrabbers (which should be good enough, unless there somethings else in the game that helps)

Well, since you can apparently do any smash attack out of shield you could do a f/d-smash if there's enough lag.

...or against Ganon you could like Falcon Punch out of shield or something too, lol.

I've noticed in some of the Japanese full-game videos that Falcon's knee somtimes has lag and sometimes it looks like it's been l-canceled. Look at this video for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGcvQqUFN7U

In the second match, falcon does a short-hopped knee at around 4:30 and he has no lag whatsoever. However, every other time I see falcon do a knee it has tons of lag.

That's an autocancel. If you start it early enough in the air, beyond a certain part in the move you get the regular landing animation and not the attack landing animation. Most leave you very open between the time it hits and the time you must wait before you can land though.

 

[Habanero Pepper]

if so many of you are dead set on, "L-Canceling=Better Gameplay" you need to rethink why exactly you're still posting here. Don't waste what little Bandwidth we have left and gtfo.

 

[Rusty Shacklefurd]

Mind**** in 3... 2... 1...


... SSBB=/=SSBM


... WOAH!!! It's almost like it's a different game!

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

I still fail to see what the problem is, so no one can L-cancel that means that slow characters are slower. This is the cause of concern correct? However the fast charcaters are also affected, so they would have a quicker recovary.

But if L-Canceling was introduced in Brawl the gain would be proportionate for each character (Lets say cut the Lag time in half). Effectly there is no difference. Unless you planed to abuse this to players who were not aware of what L-Canceling was....

Explain.​

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

jesus christ

go outside, breathe some air and think before you make your posts

bunch of weenies

 

[User33]

Aerial lag is reduced, stop whining

 

[Puffin]

I still fail to see what the problem is, so no one can L-cancel that means that slow characters are slower. This is the cause of concern correct? However the fast charcaters are also affected, so they would have a quicker recovary.

But if L-Canceling was introduced in Brawl the gain would be proportionate for each character (Lets say cut the Lag time in half). Effectly there is no difference. Unless you planed to abuse this to players who were not aware of what L-Canceling was....

Explain.​

I explained it in another thread, but might as well spread the word. We're not worried about the proportion of lag between characters. What matters is the ration between landing lag and shield stun. If landing lag is too long, every single aerial will be shield grabbed and, therefore, taking the offensive would be a horrible decision. The game would become a campy grab-fest.

 

[Zenjamin]

Aerial lag is reduced, stop whining

actually, airial lag seems only noticably reduced for the faster charcters and the airial based charcters such as MK pit and puff...

but the airial lag for charcters like Ganon seemed to have increased.

 

[Magus420]

I still fail to see what the problem is, so no one can L-cancel that means that slow characters are slower. This is the cause of concern correct? However the fast charcaters are also affected, so they would have a quicker recovary.​

That's because you fail to see why dashdance camping ***** slow characters, and making them slower while keeping DDing and even making them better makes it even worse.

Aerial lag is reduced, stop whining

That would be fine if it were the case across the board so it would eliminate an unnecessary button input that was done everytime, but it's not.

Again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H9sZ7NvHh0

That's as laggy as ever. Anyone with good ground speed will be able to camp the **** out of him since he's slow, has no projectile, and can't even attack from the air. Even with the half lag in before, characters like this could do very little 1vs1 against fast characters, and they still could easily enough **** their less laggy moves with DDing.

 

[Inkslinger]

spacing>lcancelling

that's if nobody has a broken grab range, like marth.

Well but either way, something might so laggy that even spacing won't help.

 

[Magus420]

Spacing is fine against shieldgrabbing with more lag, but that doesn't help against dashdance grabbing.

 

[Jx31]

Plus, you can now Forward smash out of the shield as you mentioned before.

 

[darkatma]

meaning that everyone will be camping with projectiles or shielding and waiting for an attack.

 

[Sliq]

All the noobs in the thread that don't "get" why no l-canceling is bad shouldn't post.

 

[Kaotical]

Brawl = refreshing character roster without solid appeal
Brawl = no depth whatsoever (so far)
Brawl = less mindgames needed

No L-canceling means grabs and shields are top-tier. Mindgames were a predominant skill in a Melee player's repetoire only because there were so many options for offense, defense, and sheer mobility. It took more intelligence than skill (yes, use your brain to play Melee) because of the vast amount of options that the "advanced techs" allowed for...they're only advanced techs because you have to do something with the controller other than "press this direction to move" or "hit A to attack".

L-canceling is a huge deal because it helps to actually balance the game, not the opposite. The insane matches we all love helped put SSBM on the EVO lineup. I highly doubt Brawl will make the cut (as it is so far...dont hurt me). Every other fighting game out there (save Namco games) have some sort of canceling for at least one move. Actually, in comparison to other games, if Brawl has no L-canceling then that means a large amount of Brawl's moves are the slowest moves in fighting game history, and it's FACT when you compare the lag of moves to the speed of the game. Sakurai should have just kept the L-canceling Gimpy mentioned at E-4-All.

Wanna talk about balance? How about MK is going to rip up over half the roster with just how fast his moves are. He has no power? ****, what a shame. Too bad he can combo just about every character and probably never get hit with ease. No good kill moves? Very easy to knock them off even easier to edgeguard with. How about Peach? If she can still float-cancel (which is believe is true), then her combo potential is already the best in the game and it's been out for 2 days.

It generally comes down to this: Brawl has no combo's, very limited offensive/defensive options, half the mobility of Melee, and little to no mindgames. Wanna be top tier? Wait for someone to whiff and smash/grab out of shield.

GG, Melee FTW

 

[OoNoiRoO]

The game isn't even out yet(for you at least). I don't think you have any right to be saying anything.

 

[Finn Macool]

The game isn't even out yet(for you at least). I don't think you have any right to be saying anything.

too right man too right, i think these things were removed so that the chracters and gameplay were more balanced without needing to use advanced techs

 

[Proven]

Brawl = refreshing character roster without solid appeal
Brawl = no depth whatsoever (so far)
Brawl = less mindgames needed

No L-canceling means grabs and shields are top-tier. Mindgames were a predominant skill in a Melee player's repetoire only because there were so many options for offense, defense, and sheer mobility. It took more intelligence than skill (yes, use your brain to play Melee) because of the vast amount of options that the "advanced techs" allowed for...they're only advanced techs because you have to do something with the controller other than "press this direction to move" or "hit A to attack".

L-canceling is a huge deal because it helps to actually balance the game, not the opposite. The insane matches we all love helped put SSBM on the EVO lineup. I highly doubt Brawl will make the cut (as it is so far...dont hurt me). Every other fighting game out there (save Namco games) have some sort of canceling for at least one move. Actually, in comparison to other games, if Brawl has no L-canceling then that means a large amount of Brawl's moves are the slowest moves in fighting game history, and it's FACT when you compare the lag of moves to the speed of the game. Sakurai should have just kept the L-canceling Gimpy mentioned at E-4-All.

Wanna talk about balance? How about MK is going to rip up over half the roster with just how fast his moves are. He has no power? ****, what a shame. Too bad he can combo just about every character and probably never get hit with ease. No good kill moves? Very easy to knock them off even easier to edgeguard with. How about Peach? If she can still float-cancel (which is believe is true), then her combo potential is already the best in the game and it's been out for 2 days.

It generally comes down to this: Brawl has no combo's, very limited offensive/defensive options, half the mobility of Melee, and little to no mindgames. Wanna be top tier? Wait for someone to whiff and smash/grab out of shield.

GG, Melee FTW

I like how no one is considering how fast shields run out now, and how easy it is for some characters to jump or do another attack or even just go through the person while they're still falling/doing the attack. But hey, I don't have the game in my hands, and neither do you.

 

[teh_spamerer]

That's because you fail to see why dashdance camping ***** slow characters, and making them slower while keeping DDing and even making them better makes it even worse.That would be fine if it were the case across the board so it would eliminate an unnecessary button input that was done everytime, but it's not.

Apparently, you can't dashdance too. M2K said he heard from Xelic that you can't cancel the running animation by running in the other direction.

 

[smasher99]

eaveere 1 here is a idoit THE GAME IS NUW !!!!! PPALL HAVNT FOND SOMETING YET!!!!!!!!YET!!!!!!!!!!! idoits

 

[Adi]

Apparently, you can't dashdance too. M2K said he heard from Xelic that you can't cancel the running animation by running in the other direction.

...No, they wouldn't go that far, that was the last bastion of hope I held for Brawl. If dashdancing is gone then this game will be a ****ty shieldgrab fest.

 

[slikvik]

Yea, mew2king definitely said dash-dancing was out too...