NintenZone Social Thread: Shovel Knight Amiibo Hype Catastrophe (feat. Swamp)

[Deleted member]

And here we go with comparisons to first party characters again...

Sigh.

"I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies, but he's definitely in a class of his own." - Sakurai on Mega Man's inclusion

Then I guess we have no other possible 3rd parties to be added
No one comes near the 4 we have anyways ://

 

[aldelaro5]

I think TheEpicRyuga's point was the fact he said that Smash was supposed to be about "Nintendo All-Star's" duking it out. And being fair, some of the Nintendo characters we got their "All-Star" status may be a little bit.... questionable.....

Whatever All-Star really even means these days.....

Look, I;ll give an example of one of my argument about SS that the definition actually matter.

I had to say that SS isn;t really following what is the core of the series. The problem is if I said ONLY that, it wouldn't be clear. Like, how is it not following? what it does and doesn't follow? I had to define it before my essay so that if you basically disagreed with that definition, there's a good chance you wouldn't agree with the argument.

So, here, I have no idea what he means exactly and this happened a lot. Like "shoo-in".....the heck is that?

I do sometime use my own definition because it helps to structure my thinking

 

[epicmartin7]

I'm not trying to defend Shovey, but I'm trying to call BS on the 'allstar' quota. Again, Roy is easily the best example

It wasn't really my point in saying every character is an "all-star". I was more pointing to the roots of Smash (A.K.A Smash 64) which was where the most recognizable characters duke it out. Basically saying Smash is losing its roots, that's it. I didn't want to start a debate -_-.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It wasn't really my point in saying every character is an "all-star". I was more pointing to the roots of Smash (A.K.A Smash 64) which was where the most recognizable characters duke it out. Basically saying Smash is losing its roots, that's it. I didn't want to start a debate -_-.

Ness and Captain Falcon are hardly what I could have called recognizable back then

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not trying to defend Shovey, but I'm trying to call BS on the 'allstar' quota. Again, Roy is easily the best example

Roy is by far the best example
How about that one guy that appeared in that one JRPG
Or those two from that series with only three games that everybody only remembers because the Director of Smash made one of them
Or

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Because Alph isn't a sore thumb?
Or Ryu himself with the other 3rd parties?
The clones being separated from their series?
Or Snake. Period.

Not even comparable in scale. And at least Snake and his franchise are iconic among a wider gaming audience so I'm not really sure why you would even compare someone like him to an obscure third-party character like Shovel Knight.

"I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies, but he's definitely in a class of his own." - Sakurai on Mega Man's inclusion

Pretty much this. Shovel Knight is literally the definition of "just any character."

Ness and Captain Falcon are hardly what I could have called recognizable back then

True. At least Jigglypuff had the distinction of being one of the most famous Pokemon characters, huge popularity over in Japan and a recurring role in the anime. That said obscure Nintendo characters aren't the same thing as obscure third-party characters.

 

[Schnee117]

Because Alph isn't a sore thumb?
Or Ryu himself with the other 3rd parties?
The clones being separated from their series?
Or Snake. Period.

Alph's a costume and has "muh recency" going for him.
Ryu is THE Fighting game Icon and the Street Fighter series has outsold Mega Man.
That just shows that the clones were separated in Late Development.
Snake is THE Stealth Game icon and Metal Gear is Konami's best selling franchise (ignoring PES).

Basing it on sales Mega Man is the bottom rung for third parties. Rayman, Metal Gear and especially Final Fantasy have outsold it and that's without going into other Capcom franchises like Resident Evil and Monster Hunter.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Holy **** Until Dawn has some ****ty writing
'Please calm down everyone' YOU JUST SAID ONE OF THEM EILL DIE!
'Please tell me he's okay!' YOU SAW THAT ****ING SAWBLADE GO INTO HIS STOMACH YOU BIMBO

 

[Solfiner]

[Insert terrible Shrek all-star joke here]

Anyways, I'm tired of this argument so I guess I'll just lurk a bit.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Alph's a costume and has "muh recency" going for him.
Ryu is THE Fighting game Icon and the Street Fighter series has outsold Mega Man.
That just shows that the clones were separated in Late Development.
Snake is THE Stealth Game icon and Metal Gear is Konami's best selling franchise (ignoring PES).

Basing it on sales Mega Man is the bottom rung for third parties. Rayman, Metal Gear and especially Final Fantasy have outsold it and that's without going into other Capcom franchises like Resident Evil and Monster Hunter.

To be fair, I don't think Mega Man is less famous than Snake. Is his fame comparable to Sonic? No, but it doesn't matter as unlike Shovel Knight he actually still is famous.

 

[epicmartin7]

Ness and Captain Falcon are hardly what I could have called recognizable back then

I got nothin'. My mind has gone insane from all this speculation. It's driving me crazy.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Has Sakurai ever said he doesn't know who Shovel Knight is, or is that just an assumption? Because if it is an assumption, then, mind the offense, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. How can we assume Sakurai doesn't know about Shovel Knight when he knows just about everything Nintendo? If he knew the demand for Little Mac in the US, then he should know about the demand for Shovel Knight in the U.S., and should know who Shovel Knight is.

If you want to try and make Shovel Knight look less likely, please, use a reason that isn't based on a stupid assumption or based on fan made criteria

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Has Sakurai ever said he doesn't know who Shovel Knight is, or is that just an assumption? Because if it an assumption, then, mind the offense, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. How can we assume Sakurai doesn't know about Shovel Knight when he knows just about everything Nintendo? If he knew the demand for Little Mac in the US, then he should know about the demand for Shovel Knight in the U.S., and should know who Shovel Knight is.

If you want to try and make Shovel Knight look less likely, please, use a reason that isn't based on a stupid assumption.

Actually, Little Mac was always more popular than Butt Butt

 

[Deleted member]

I think the people in this thread understimate how popular Shovel Knight really is...

Alph's a costume and has "muh recency" going for him.
Ryu is THE Fighting game Icon and the Street Fighter series has outsold Mega Man.
That just shows that the clones were separated in Late Development.
Snake is THE Stealth Game icon and Metal Gear is Konami's best selling franchise (ignoring PES).

Basing it on sales Mega Man is the bottom rung for third parties. Rayman, Metal Gear and especially Final Fantasy have outsold it and that's without going into other Capcom franchises like Resident Evil and Monster Hunter.

The fact he IS THE ONLY CHARACTER THAT STAYED AS a costume makes him stand out as a sore thumb
Pac-Man, Mega Man, Sonic, Ryu
One of these is not like the others
One of these doesn't belong
Can you guess which one is it before I finish this song?

Spoiler: spoilers

Ryu because he's not the mascot of his respective company

Him being an icon to stealth games doesn't make him an icon to Nintendo
Or the fact he stands out as a sore thumb with his design alone

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think the people in this thread understimate how popular Shovel Knight really is...


The fact he IS THE ONLY CHARACTER THAT STAYED AS a costume makes him stand out as a sore thumb
Pac-Man, Mega Man, Sonic, Ryu
One of these is not like the others
One of these doesn't belong
Can you guess whoch one is it before I finish this song?

Spoiler: spoilers

Ryu because he's not the mascot of his respective company

Him being an icon to stealth games doesn't make him an icon to Nintendo
Or the fact he stands out as a sore thumb with his design alone

Actually, Mega Man and Ryu were pretty much tied as Capcom's mascot. If anything, Ryu's artstyle is a sore thumb

 

[Arcanir]

Has Sakurai ever said he doesn't know who Shovel Knight is, or is that just an assumption? Because if it an assumption, then, mind the offense, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. How can we assume Sakurai doesn't know about Shovel Knight when he knows just about everything Nintendo? If he knew the demand for Little Mac in the US, then he should know about the demand for Shovel Knight in the U.S., and should know who Shovel Knight is.

If you want to try and make Shovel Knight look less likely, please, use a reason that isn't based on a stupid assumption.

While we can't assume that Sakurai doesn't know about Shovel Knight, that's not a good comparison. Shovel Knight is an indie title that has never made it to Japanese shores, Punch-out has had a number of game in Japan even if they are more popular in the west. One has had a presence in his home country that would lead to him knowing about it, Shovel Knight is pretty unknown in the general scheme of things in Japan even if there's a demand in the west.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Actually, Little Mac was always more popular than Butt Butt

Doesn't really nullify his point, he still has the demand to considered for the ballot.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I never understood the visual sore thumb arguement. It's a cross over. That's the point.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Actually, Little Mac was always more popular than Butt Butt

Shovel Knight's popularity and condition now is very similar to Little Mac's condition before his confirmation. Lots of US demand, but barely known in Japan.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Has Sakurai ever said he doesn't know who Shovel Knight is, or is that just an assumption? Because if it is an assumption, then, mind the offense, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. How can we assume Sakurai doesn't know about Shovel Knight when he knows just about everything Nintendo? If he knew the demand for Little Mac in the US, then he should know about the demand for Shovel Knight in the U.S., and should know who Shovel Knight is.

If you want to try and make Shovel Knight look less likely, please, use a reason that isn't based on a stupid assumption.

Its a pretty safe assumtion since Shovel Knight hasn't released in Japan yet, and we have no idea i Sakurai follows any of the indies in the West.

Just so you All-stars doesn't refer to the most iconic and biggest cult classic characters, after all you just need to look at Marvel's Avengers and DC Justice League books, they've quite often had no name characters in the starring line-up.

Really the term All-Star is an all encompassing term that refers to all characters owned by the company, its the reason why ALL is there in the first place.

Man don't you just hate it when a point you bring up is completely ignored in a debate

 

[Substitution]

I'm beginning to think that Shovel Knight is slowly becoming the next Geno.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Shovel Knight's popularity and condition now is very similar to Little Mac's condition before his confirmation. Lots of US demand, but barely known in Japan.

Except Little Mac's demand dwarves Butt Butt.

 

[NintenZ]

I had no idea who was until the Gamatsu Leak.

 

[Solfiner]

I never understood the visual sore thumb arguement. It's a cross over. That's the point.

Yeah. That's why you can have Dorf wearing a bunny hood. And I don't mind it one bit, that **** looks hilarious.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm beginning to think that Shovel Knight is slowly becoming the next Geno.

Nope, Shovel Knight's actually the main character and has a larger impact. First third party amiibo and being THE Indie character with about 14 appearances. Also, YCG can and will do a sequel

Shovel Knight's popularity and condition now is very similar to Little Mac's condition before his confirmation. Lots of US demand, but barely known in Japan.

Doesn't really nullify his point, he still has the demand to considered for the ballot.

Shovel Knight has demand yes, but Little Mac was one of the most requested characters in the west. Shovel Knight's demand doesn't come close that as Little Mac's did. I say this as someone who like s Shovey and dislikes Punch Out

 

[epicmartin7]

I had no idea who was until the Gamatsu Leak.

That's shulking of you to say that.

Spoiler

Yeah, my puns are terrible...

 

[Substitution]

Nope, Shovel Knight's actually the main character and has a larger impact. First third party amiibo and being THE Indie character with about 14 appearances. Also, YCG can and will do a sequel

That's not what I mean. I mean that we haven't gone a day without him popping up. He's becoming Geno 2.0.

 

[Champ Gold]

All-Star is a vaguely loose term and while you think that it means relatively well known or big name, All-Star is a term that means jack ****.

As a sports fan, I can tell you all-star is a mediocre meaning since as long as you're good or was decent at one thing you did, you were an All-Star until someone better than you was in there instead.

All-Star can mean a lot of things but for Smash case, it's really "popular Nintendo characters and a few new faces duking it out along with Mega Stars from other companies". It's why people use the argument for characters like Shovel Knight of "rarely known Third Party characters". First Party characters can get away with that because they are most likely being advertised for Nintendo NOT the other way around.

Smash has become a advertising machine but for their IPs only. Why you think third party characters are from popular franchises and not a few small names because they were easy for Nintendo to work with. Why do you think more people now than before want an new F-Zer or Mother game, when those franchises weren't even popular before (F-Zero lost a lot of steam after X and low advertisement didn't help either), why do you think Fire Emblem is more popular now than ever before, why do you think Nintendo is giving Xenoblade X a heavy push (although really that happen way before Shulk in Smash). Smash is mostly there to bring out franchises people don't know as much about to atleast for fans to want those franchises back or to keep them known.

Like what @PushDustIn said, Indie representation isn't really needed outside of a trophy because they haven't earn their stripes at all yet of becoming a big name. It what separates franchises like Minecraft which became big on its own with the new age media and gameplay and Mighty Number 9 (I'm actually getting tired of Inafune bashing) which hasn't even came out yet and they want it to become the next big thing. Look at franchises like &. They took a while before becoming household names in gaming (and in MG's case almost a decade before MGS 1 dropped). Not everyone can start out an instant success and even then they have to work to keep that success going.

It's not a matter of chance or want but a matter of deserving of being in as a third-party character. Selling a million and being in spinoffs or cameos isn't hard, consistently doing it and showing more of that success is.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Except Little Mac's demand dwarves Butt Butt.

It's not exactly similar, but similar to some degree.

 

[Deleted member]

I had no idea who was until the Gamatsu Leak.

I didn't even know Rhythm Heaven was a thing until Gematsu

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm beginning to think that Shovel Knight is slowly becoming the next Geno.

No. Even though neither are iconic video game characters, Shove Knight is the main character of a well-received indie game and a character the company that owes him actually cares about using, whereas Geno isn't even important to the franchise he originated in and Square-Enix clearly has no interest in using him.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Its a pretty safe assumtion since Shovel Knight hasn't released in Japan yet, and we have no idea i Sakurai follows any of the indies in the West.

Except it isn't. If the Shovel Knight Amiibo has been in development for over a year, I'm pretty sure that would've been a pretty big deal within Nintendo, and word would've had to have reached Sakurai about him, especially if Yacht Club had to go to Nintendo of Japan for the rights to make an amiibo and use Nintendo's amiibo technology. When you assume you make an *** out of u and me, and this assumption is purely ignorant. Remember what I said about some fans taking speculation as fact? Here we see a prime example. Some fans are so narrow minded that they can't possibly see Shovel Knight getting in, and believe any speculation as gospel if it's in support of their character. If you want to make Shovel look less likely use better facts. The sales of his games, his indie/third party status, etc. Don't use stupid assumptions because it just makes you look like you're grasping at straws to make Shovel Knight look less likely.

 

[Captain Fun]

And here we go with comparisons to first party characters again...

Sigh.

"I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies, but he's definitely in a class of his own." - Sakurai on Mega Man's inclusion

If Shovel Knight were in because of the ballot and because people at Nintendo wanted him to be, then he wouldn't be "just any character" would he?

Sakurai also said that it helps if a character has appeared in a game recently.

These 'rules' are fine and all but I think they go out the window a little bit with the ballot.

 

[gameonion]

Sorry for breaking the Shovel-Hype post streak, but...

I'M FINALLY BACK, PERFORMING FOR YOU. WITH ALL THE MEMES YOU CAN JOIN IN TOO. PUT YOUR HANDS TOGETHER, IF YOU WANNA CLAP, I'LL TAKE YOU THROUGH THESE...

... 2 pictures I made? Okay? Okay.

Let's be honest here: As a joke character, Sandbag would be perfect. Just imagine the craziness...

No items, Sandbag only, Final Destination.

Meow Mario Purrs In?! Yes, he isn't Meow MEOW Mario anymore, but it still counts as that meme joke thingy from the Smash Ballot-reveal... right? (I actually forgot the second meow, lol)

---

Regarding Shovel Knight:

Since I just came back from vacation, I was shocked to see the Shovel Knight-amiibo. I actually already pre-ordered it. Bless amazon germany.
As for him in Smash: Please. Please. PLEASE! He's actually pretty unlikely, but PLEASE. I need to see this in my lifetime before he becomes irrelevant.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I will say this, if Shovel Knight's sequels and Japanese sales are highly successful, he'd likely have an easier time in the next Smash

 

[Das Koopa]

I don't understand why people are adverse to Shovel Knight. If people want an Indie character, you'll need to accept that there is no mascot for the concept. If you don't, remember that indie is (ironically) huge. Small developers can make fantastic games with huge fanbases, small developers can open kickstarters and get hundreds of thousands to develop games that will eventually be loved, etc. It's not this tiny thing on a hidden corner of the internet. It's a sizable part of gaming.

Shovel Knight and Nintendo are closely associated, and Shovel Knight is currently a relevant indie character. I'd prefer Quote, but I get it - his character is over a decade old, from a series that isn't as in the public eye as it was 5-8 years ago.

The "all-star" argument has long been out the window. Arguably since 64, but definitely since Melee.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Shovel Knight were in because of the ballot and because people at Nintendo wanted him to be, then he wouldn't be "just any character" would he?

Except he isn't even the most commonly demanded character at all and unlike Ryu, he doesn't have the advantage of being well known at all. He is an obscure third-party character that although fairly popular in terms of Smash demand in the west, is overshadowed by characters that not only often rank better than him in fan polls, but in many cases are much more well-known than him world-wide.

 

[Deleted member]

Why Chatot is best

Spoiler

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why Chatot is best

Spoiler

View attachment 70764

Not a Drowzee 3/100

 

[Deleted member]

Except he isn't even the most commonly demanded character at all and unlike Ryu, he doesn't have the advantage of being well known at all. He is an obscure third-party character that although fairly popular in terms of Smash demand in the west, is overshadowed by characters that not only often rank better than him in fan polls, but in many cases are much more well-known than him world-wide.

Because we all know what happened to the "most requested" karacter, right?