NintenZone Social Thread: Shovel Knight Amiibo Hype Catastrophe (feat. Swamp)

[Curious Villager]

I guess we're still at the Pikaman stage of modding right?

More or less yes. Although I'm not sure if they are at the stage yet where they can modify the armature to fit the models. But it's a start for now....

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Every time Geno appears in this thread this is all I think about:

 

[Das Koopa]

Because I have nothing better to do, here's semi-accurate dates for every playable character in the series.

1980-1984
-Mr. Game & Watch (April 28th, 1980)
-Pac-Man (May 22nd, 1980)
-Mario (July 9th, 1981)
-Donkey Kong (July 9th, 1981)
-Luigi (July 14th, 1983)
-Little Mac (February 1984 NA, no accurate date given for the Japanese arcade release, no exact day.)
-Duck Hunt (April 21st, 1984)

1985-1989
-Ice Climbers (January 30th, 1985)
-R.O.B (July 26th, 1985)
-Bowser (September 13th, 1985)
-Peach (September 13th, 1985)
-Link (February 21st, 1986)
-Zelda (February 21st, 1986)
-Samus (August 6th, 1986)
-Pit (December 19th, 1986)
-Palutena (December 19th, 1986)
-Snake (July 7th, 1987)
-Ryu (August 13th, 1987)
-Mega Man (December 17th, 1987)
-Larry, Morton, Wendy, Iggy, Roy, Lemmy, and Ludwig (October 23rd, 1988)

1990-1994
-Marth (April 20th, 1990)
-Dr. Mario (July 27th, 1990)
-Captain Falcon (November 21st, 1990)
-Yoshi (November 21st, 1990)
-Sonic the Hedgehog (June 23rd, 1991)
-Kirby (April 27th, 1992)
-King Dedede (April 27th, 1992)
-Wario (October 21st, 1992)
-Fox (February 21st, 1993)
-Falco (February 21st, 1993)
-Meta Knight (March 23rd, 1993)
-Ness (August 27th, 1994)
-Diddy Kong (November 25th, 1994)

1995-1999
-Pikachu (February 27th, 1996)
-Jigglypuff (February 27th, 1996)
-Pokemon Trainer (February 27th, 1996)
-Squirtle (February 27th, 1996)
-Ivysaur (February 27th, 1996)
-Charizard (February 27th, 1996)
-Mewtwo (February 27th, 1996)
-Wolf (April 27th, 1997)
-Young Link (November 21st, 1998)
-Ganondorf (November 21st, 1998)
-Shiek (November 21st, 1998)
-Pichu (November 21st, 1999)

2000-2004
-Villager (April 14th, 2001)
-Olimar (October 26th, 2001)
-Roy (November 21st, 2001)
-Bowser Jr. (July 19th, 2002)
-Toon Link (December 13th, 2002)
-Zero Suit Samus (February 9th, 2004)

2005-2009
-Ike (April 20th, 2005)
-Lucas (April 30th, 2006)
-Lucario (September 28th, 2006)
-Miis (November 19th, 2006)
-Rosalina and Luma (November 1st, 2007)
-Wii Fit Trainer (December 1st, 2007)

2010-2014
-Shulk (June 10th, 2010)
-Dark Pit (March 22nd, 2012)
-Robin (April 19th, 2012)
-Lucina (April 19th, 2012)
-Alph (July 13th, 2013)
-Greninja (October 12th, 2013)

 

[Geno Boost]

Because I have nothing better to do, here's semi-accurate dates for every playable character in the series.

1980-1984
-Mr. Game & Watch (April 28th, 1980)
-Pac-Man (May 22nd, 1980)
-Mario (July 9th, 1981)
-Donkey Kong (July 9th, 1981)
-Luigi (July 14th, 1983)
-Little Mac (February 1984 NA, no accurate date given for the Japanese arcade release, no exact day.)
-Duck Hunt (April 21st, 1984)

1985-1989
-Ice Climbers (January 30th, 1985)
-R.O.B (July 26th, 1985)
-Bowser (September 13th, 1985)
-Peach (September 13th, 1985)
-Link (February 21st, 1986)
-Zelda (February 21st, 1986)
-Samus (August 6th, 1986)
-Pit (December 19th, 1986)
-Palutena (December 19th, 1986)
-Snake (July 7th, 1987)
-Ryu (August 13th, 1987)
-Mega Man (December 17th, 1987)

1990-1994
-Marth (April 20th, 1990)
-Dr. Mario (July 27th, 1990)
-Captain Falcon (November 21st, 1990)
-Yoshi (November 21st, 1990)
-Sonic the Hedgehog (June 23rd, 1991)
-Kirby (April 27th, 1992)
-King Dedede (April 27th, 1992)
-Wario (October 21st, 1992)
-Fox (February 21st, 1993)
-Falco (February 21st, 1993)
-Meta Knight (March 23rd, 1993)
-Ness (August 27th, 1994)
-Diddy Kong (November 25th, 1994)

1995-1999
-Pikachu (February 27th, 1996)
-Jigglypuff (February 27th, 1996)
-Pokemon Trainer (February 27th, 1996)
-Squirtle (February 27th, 1996)
-Ivysaur (February 27th, 1996)
-Charizard (February 27th, 1996)
-Mewtwo (February 27th, 1996)
-Wolf (April 27th, 1997)
-Young Link (November 21st, 1998)
-Ganondorf (November 21st, 1998)
-Shiek (November 21st, 1998)
-Pichu (November 21st, 1999)

2000-2004
-Villager (April 14th, 2001)
-Olimar (October 26th, 2001)
-Roy (November 21st, 2001)
-Bowser Jr. (July 19th, 2002)
-Toon Link (December 13th, 2002)
-Zero Suit Samus (February 9th, 2004)

2005-2009
-Ike (April 20th, 2005)
-Lucas (April 30th, 2006)
-Lucario (September 28th, 2006)
-Miis (November 19th, 2006)
-Rosalina and Luma (November 1st, 2007)
-Wii Fit Trainer (December 1st, 2007)

2010-2014
-Shulk (June 10th, 2010)
-Dark Pit (March 22nd, 2012)
-Robin (April 19th, 2012)
-Lucina (April 19th, 2012)
-Greninja (October 12th, 2013)

-Duck Hunt is 1976
-Sonic is 1990
-Lucas is 1999
-Wolf is 1995
-Lucario is 2005
and dont forget

 

[Guybrush20X6]

-Duck Hunt is 1976
-Sonic is 1990
-Lucas is 1999
-Wolf is 1995
and dont forget

- That's the concept, no the character
- That's a cameo
- That's early development, never released to public
- Same

The Koopalings and Alph count so that's October23 1998 and July 13 2013.

 

[Khoru]

-Duck Hunt is 1976
-Sonic is 1990
-Lucas is 1999
-Wolf is 1995

unreleased games count for nothing, rad mobile is silly (although if ssbm is being counted for roy, then yes), and the dog didn't appear in the original duck hunt

 

[Geno Boost]

- That's the concept, no the character
- That's a cameo
- That's early development, never released to public
- Same

The Koopalings and Alph count so that's October23 1998 and July 13 2013.

i count the characters as when they were created rather than game appearence

you skiped 10 years for koopalings

unreleased games count for nothing, rad mobile is silly (although if ssbm is being counted for roy, then yes), and the dog didn't appear in the original duck hunt

the Dog didnt appear but the Duck is playable so it does count, if we had Banjo-Kazooie in smash will we count the first appearence in 1997 because of Banjo? or 1998 because of Kazooie?

 

[Das Koopa]

-Duck Hunt is 1976
-Sonic is 1990
-Lucas is 1999
-Wolf is 1995
and dont forget

Duck Hunt Dog/Duck did not appear in the 1976 concept. Doesn't count.

I can't find any consistent dates for Rad Mobile. Some say 1990, most say 1991, google specifies April 26th, Wikipedia simply lists "1991". The only thing I know is it was released prior to Sonic the Hedgehog. But, since I can't come up with anything accurate, I stuck with Sonic the Hedgehog. If somebody can find an accurate date, I'll change it.

Earthbound 64 and Star Fox 2 were never released, so I don't count them. Since there were several years between the cancellation of those projects and the games that ultimately included those characters, there's a strong chance that the character changed a lot.

Added dates for the Koopalings and Alph, thanks for mentioning them!

 

[LIQUID12A]

the Dog didnt appear but the Duck is playable so it does count, if we had Banjo-Kazooie in smash will we count the first appearence in 1997 because of Banjo? or 1998 because of Kazooie?

1997.

Despite the arbitrary logic you're using here, Banjo and Kazooie appeared together in the first game. Kazooie was created and starred alongside Banjo, so the argument doesn't work.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yoooooo that History Unfolds from Soul Calibur 2 tho

I told you the Chrom skin should have used Ike as a base.

 

[Khoru]

the Dog didnt appear but the Duck is playable so it does count, if we had Banjo-Kazooie in smash will we count the first appearence in 1997 because of Banjo? or 1998 because of Kazooie?

i mean, does roy in all-star count ssbm? that's not a rhetorical question; i actually don't know.
the dog is the actual playable bit, and not counting the ducks as being from 1976 when little mac is counted as debuting in 1984 (which he didn't, unless you consider ssb4 a retcon) makes sakurai or whoever's thoughts on this evident

Earthbound 64 and Star Fox 2 were never released, so I don't count them. Since there were several years between the cancellation of those projects and the games that ultimately included those characters, there's a strong chance that the character changed a lot.

in fairness, star fox 2 is pretty much fully playable and iirc it includes dialogue and stuff
but really, counting unreleased games is just inviable - there are probably a ton of canned games or early concepts that we don't know about, so just going with sf2 and eb64 is... yeah

 

[Geno Boost]

I can't find any consistent dates for Rad Mobile. Some say 1990, most say 1991, google specifies April 26th, Wikipedia simply lists "1991". The only thing I know is it was released prior to Sonic the Hedgehog. But, since I can't come up with anything accurate, I stuck with Sonic the Hedgehog. If somebody can find an accurate date, I'll change it.

i actually ment this

Spoiler

Sonic was shown to SEGA before they added him in any game

 

[TheAnvil]

I've tried Star Fox 2. It sucks ass.

I'm so glad they didn't release it.

 

[Champ Gold]

I've tried Star Fox 2. It sucks ***.

I'm so glad they didn't release it.

Man. You're gonna hate Star Fox Zero then.

Most the games ideas were taken from Star Fox 2.

 

[Burb]

Only @ Burb can choose whether or not to have a discussion.

Everyone else doesn't matter.

If I had that ability, we probably would've never had live chats about pro tourneys. I hate competitive Smash.

Their is actually a cult following of Shantae in Japan tho, heck a company called intergrow is actually in the process of localizing Shantae: Risky's Revenge - Director's cut in Japan. So who knows if she'll gain more of a following once the game hits. And even I think you're wrong when you compared Shantae's popularity to Geno. Also I don't think Sakurai ever said indies are excluded from the ballot or any video game character of that matter being Nintendo or Non-Nintendo, I always thought of this ballot as a suggestion box not much a popularity contest.

I'm sure you can find a group of Japanese players that love Punch-Out, too, if you look hard enough.

Fact of the matter is, the Shantae fandom in Japan is practically non-existent. The only people I've heard say it's big are.....surprise surprise......hardcore Shantae supporters!

Both U.S. and Europe(who we as a community seem to forget plays a role in the ballot.Not that it will help shantae much just a statement) so its only really obsure in Japan

She's obscure worldwide.

Do most casual gamers know who Shantae is? I know quite a few people in the Smash community who had never even heard of her prior to the massive explosion of support.

Toad should be playable before Rosalina and Bowser jr. but you know... cool guys get in before the cute guys.

Excuse you.

Bowser Jr. is adorable.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Geno has been here since 1995
shantae has been here since 2012 (nobody remember her in 2002)
Geno is reconizable by Square classic fans and Nintendo fans and popular in the interenet since 2006 (Forest maze duh).
Shantae is reconizable by Smash fans and wayfoard fans.
Geno is Mario character and being in a Mario game make you very popular, thanks to the fans for making people feels that he is still alive.
Shantae is recently just some eshop characters like Shovel knight.

I remember her from 2002. I have the GBC cart and everything.

I still contest that Shovel Knight is more ridiculous than Shantae (although Shantae is pretty ridiculous) and deserves the Geno title more then her. Dude's only been in one game, and it's multiplat. I swear most of his support comes from people that liked the Smashified render. He also consistently rates higher then Shantea on polls.

 

[Burb]

il piantissimo for smash

Smash aside......

He does still have this loose thread.

I've tried Star Fox 2. It sucks ***.

I'm so glad they didn't release it.

I don't think either of the SNES Star Fox games were very good.

It's better to just pretend 64 was the first game, since that's the point where the series really kicked off.

 

[Geno Boost]

Excuse you.

Bowser Jr. is adorable.

oh i forgot Toad is 30 years old now...

 

[Burb]

oh i forgot Toad is 30 years old now...

 

[Geno Boost]

I swear most of his support comes from people that liked the Smashified render.

i guess you wasnt here back in brawl days...

 

[Spazzy_D]

i guess you wasnt here back in brawl days...

Talking about Shovel Knight, not Geno. Pretty sure Shovel Knight didn't have any support in the Brawl days, what with not existing and all.

 

[Geno Boost]

Talking about Shovel Knight, not Geno. Pretty sure Shovel Knight didn't have any support in the Brawl days, what with not existing and all.

well he existed but he was a baby in SMRPG back in 1996

 

[Spazzy_D]

Shovel Knight would make a PERFECT Mii Fighter costume. I don't think he's even going to get that unless Yacht Club Games straight up designs it and sends it to Nintendo, but it would be a great fit for the character considering his design.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Toad should be playable before Rosalina and Bowser jr. but you know... cool guys get in before the cute guys.

Not all that important character (Toad) playable before effectively before Bowser's sidekick (Bowser Jr).

Yeah, no

 

[Spazzy_D]

Not all that important character (Toad) playable before effectively before Bowser's sidekick (Bowser Jr).

Yeah, no

Toad debuted in Super Mario Bros., has been in every Mario spinoff, had his own games, and he's the default player 3 in most Mario platformers.

Bowser Jr. is the Game Cube kids Koopalings.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Toad debuted in Super Mario Bros., has been in every Mario spinoff, had his own games, and he's the default player 3 in most Mario platformers.

Bowser Jr. is the Game Cube kids Koopalings.

Never forget the Mario Party Koopa Kids.

 

[redroses]

He is forgotten because of the company but that didn't stop fans from remembering him and making him popular to this day and more recongnizable. Just like Crono Is dead but still popular to this day

It's started in brawl days because he was huge at the time because of the internet, it was one of the reasons why he is popular. And by the time goes more and more people new people started to know about him.

i only talk popularity and not the chances.

Yes, but Shantae is also popular with some people, it's no different.
Also, she is the main character of her game, which, in the end, makes her even more popular. Plus, she has three games to her name. While, Geno is just part of a game and not the main character.


@ PushDustIn
I double posted?
Sorry about that, I could have sworn I went on edit comment.
But seeing my post, I think I completely goofed and went on reply (quoting myself on accident). Because I saw my own text I probably thought I was editing my post, whoops.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Toad debuted in Super Mario Bros., has been in every Mario spinoff, had his own games, and he's the default player 3 in most Mario platformers.

Bowser Jr. is the Game Cube kids Koopalings.

Still doesn't change the fact Toad's role is rather unimportant to Mario when compared to Bowser Jr's role.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Still doesn't change the fact Toad's role is rather unimportant to Mario when compared to Bowser Jr's role.

Remind me, out of Toad and Bowser Jr., which one was cut from the most recent Mario Kart?

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Remind me, out of Toad and Bowser Jr., which one was cut from the most recent Mario Kart?

Talking main series Mario games here not spin-offs. Bowser Jr being Bowser sidekick and being a boss in a lot of games makes him more important then Toad, when Toad is usually the other guy you save in Mario

 

[PushDustIn]

Talking main series Mario games here not spin-offs. Bowser Jr being Bowser sidekick and being a boss in a lot of games makes him more important then Toad, when Toad is usually the other guy you save in Mario

...or a playable character in the majority of the new games.

 

[Geno Boost]

Yes, but Shantae is also popular with some people, it's no different.
Also, she is the main character of her game, which, in the end, makes her even more popular. Plus, she has three games to her name. While, Geno is just part of a game and not the main character.


@ PushDustIn
I double posted?
Sorry about that, I could have sworn I went on edit comment.
But seeing my post, I think I completely goofed and went on reply (quoting myself on accident). Because I saw my own text I probably thought I was editing my post, whoops.

Geno is popular than SMRPG itself he didn't really need to be the main character to be popular, all what he needed is the huge fans that exploded around the internet, what you see from Shantae today is not even close of what happend to Geno in brawl days because of how huge he was back then and not to mention Geno has appeared worldwide and that's include japan.

someone asked back in brawl days of how Geno became very popular so the other guy said:

Spoiler

"Super Mario RPG was an awesome game and still to this day one the best and most imagative Mario games ever made. It had many firsts for not only the Mario franchise but for Nintendo as well and thus in many aspects was a revolutionary game. The appeal of the game really comes from how it went in a completely different direction then other Mario games and in the process created a very memorable experience and even more memorable characters. Geno was one of these characters.

Geno's appeal comes from the fact that he's so radically different from other Mario characters. He's essentially a wooden doll that has the artillary of a small army but is still wise, collected, and humble, characteristics that are rarely seen in the Mario games or shown in a cliche manner. In Super Mario RPG, he was the equivalent of Midna in Twilight Princess or Colette in Tales of Symphonia, not the main character but was basically the main character in terms of plot. Unlike the other characters, Geno was the only one that was directly involved with the games plot from beginning to end and even within the game itself, was often set aside from the others as a very unique character. Obviously, this is yet another characteristic that has not been seen in a Mario game since then.

Geno's fanbase has been around since 1996 and, believe me, they have been very vocal in trying to bring him back in some form. For example, in 2006, smrpglegacy.com was able to sent Nintendo a petition that had over 21,000 signatures on it demanding a remake or sequel to SMRPG. This push also comes from the fact that many people consider SMRPG to be by far the most underrated Mario game and Nintendo has even reflected this by not releasing a true sequel or even a simple port. Geno's fanbase has become more active in recent years"

 

[Starlight_Lily]

...or a playable character in the majority of the new games.

Ack you got me.

But those weren't technically the Toad in the New Super Mario Bros Wii games were they?

Still though in terms of lore Bowser Jr would have more importance to Mario then Toad. Also Toad did kind disappear from mainline Mario games after 64 for a while, and seemed to have been replaced by Toadsworth.

 

[SuperMii3D]

Talking main series Mario games here not spin-offs. Bowser Jr being Bowser sidekick and being a boss in a lot of games makes him more important then Toad, when Toad is usually the other guy you save in Mario

I mean, we have 2 Toads as playable character in the New series, and Toad showed up for playable appearance again in 3D World, while Bowser Jr was confined to Boss Battle hell again, and was last seen in New U.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

I mean, we have 2 Toads as playable character in the New series, and Toad showed up for playable appearance again in 3D World, while Bowser Jr was confined to Boss Battle hell again, and was last seen in New U.

Umm I don't really get what your saying here, Bowser Jr is always going to be a boss in RPG Mario games and platformers, since he's one of the villians and all, he'll never be playable outside of spin-offs. Pretty much the same with Bowser, he'll never be playable in a main Mario platformer.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Talking main series Mario games here not spin-offs. Bowser Jr being Bowser sidekick and being a boss in a lot of games makes him more important then Toad, when Toad is usually the other guy you save in Mario

A character that has been there from the beginning and is often playable in main line entries of the series (SMB2 USA, 3D World, NSMBU, etc.) is more important to the concept of the franchise then a character that is occasionally the secondary antagonist.

This isn't to say that I dislike Bowser Jr. or think that he doesn't deserve his spot in Smash. I'm very happy that he is in Smash 4. It's just that Toad is much more of a core element of the franchise. His biggest obstacle is that there is little differentiation between Toad, the playable character, and Toad, the NPC species. This is why Bowser Jr. is a more obvious addition, in my opinion. Still, it's not an surmountable problem. Just look at Yoshi.

 

[TheAnvil]

Man. You're gonna hate Star Fox Zero then.

Most the games ideas were taken from Star Fox 2.

Nothing wrong with the idea. The execution was just horrible.

 

[Das Koopa]

In addition to that list, I feel like pointing something out:

Pokemon was the 5th most recent new franchise that has character representation added into Smash, not including Miis. Next is Animal Crossing, then Pikmin, then Wii Fit, then Xenoblade. From 1996 onwards, there are very few new franchises represented in Smash. Pikmin and Animal Crossing only got as far as they did because they're the best selling early-2000s originated franchises.

Most of those franchises with potential representatives have been used to provide assist trophies. That is the primary reason I'm not optimistic on Isaac's chances.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

A character that has been there from the beginning and is often playable in main line entries of the series (SMB2 USA, 3D World, NSMBU, etc.) is more important to the concept of the franchise then a character that is occasionally the secondary antagonist.

This isn't to say that I dislike Bowser Jr. or think that he doesn't deserve his spot in Smash. I'm very happy that he is in Smash 4. It's just that Toad is much more of a core element of the franchise. His biggest obstacle is that there is little differentiation between Toad, the playable character, and Toad, the NPC species. This is why Bowser Jr. is a more obvious addition, in my opinion. Still, it's not an surmountable problem. Just look at Yoshi.

Honest question, can we really say the New Super Mario Bros are part of the main Mario series? Since they seem to have become their own Mario Sub-series? Cause if so Toad would only have 2 playable roles in the Main Mario games, those 2 being Super Mario Bros 2/USA and 3D World.

 

[TheAnvil]

Bowser Jr was the main villain of at least Mario Sunshine and Galaxy 2. I don't think you could call him a secondary antagonist in so many words. Not like a Lord Frederick or a Wart.

Toad is a staple of Mario though. His face has been slapped on pretty much every form of merchandise you could name.

Mario-Luigi-Bowser-Yoshi-Peach-Toad.

Those are the main Mario characters. Wario, Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Waluigi, Boo etc are secondary to them.

I honestly think Captain Toad would be the best way to go though.