Social NintenZone Social 2.0: Remember That Time Candle Jack Visited Swa

[Guybrush20X6]

Since we're arguing Daisy I can assume there's no news. I'll be back later.

 

[memoryman3]

How many times have you saw Dixie compared to Diddy? K. Rool to Bowser and Dedede?

Not that much to be honest, they both have high approval ratings in that Individual Character Poll while Daisy couldn't even crack top 100.

I wish that Nintendo could finally put her in the same pedestal as Mario, Luigi and Peach....

 

[Frostwraith]

If only Daisy appeared in more games than just spin-offs and demonstrated more unique abilities, I'd say she would have better chances.

As it is now, there's really nothing that makes her stand out from Peach, since every game she appears on also features Peach (and the rest of the Mario cast) doing the same thing as her. Her only game that isn't a spin-off as her take the same role as Peach, that of a damsel-in-distress. She's kind of like Chrom in this regard.

Meanwhile, Peach's playable appearance in Super Mario Bros. 2 influenced her Smash moveset in the sense she has unique abilities that make her stand out from the rest of the cast, especially her floating ability and the turnip special move. She also has the forward Smash in which she whacks foes with a tennis racket or a golf club, references to the Mario sports spin-offs.

At the very least, Daisy could be a sort of Peach clone, just with some altered moves, animations and whatnot. Perhaps, more focused on power and without the ability to float. The Toad and Vegetable special moves wouldn't make sense for her either.

In regards to personality, well, all clone characters in Smash show off their respective personalities, so that isn't really a problem for her. Daisy has a unique personality that contrasts with both Peach and Rosalina, so even if she was to be added as a clone, she could stand out in that regard, with different taunts, win poses and voiced lines.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Not that much to be honest, they both have high approval ratings in that Individual Character Poll while Daisy couldn't even crack top 100.

I wish that Nintendo could finally put her in the same pedestal as Mario, Luigi and Peach....

It happens all the time here. Both might be more popular, but it is literally so hard to be a fan of both of thse characters because people assume that Dixie has to be a semi-clone of Diddy.

And that K. Rool is justt another big brute Nintendo bad guy. It's frankly the most common excuses against both of them that I see from detractors.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't know why you're really ranting against my ''rant" or choice of words, so hard, but okay.

What I had said to memoryman? That was a rant.
What I had said to you? Not even close to it. That was me being a smartass.

How can you honestly not know the difference? This is a legitimate question.

I'm not assuming the audience who reads my posts to be unable to infer what I mean with something as common knowledge as ''First Lady". It was pretty clear that it was in a terms of political sense and not the literal first Nintendo character who was a female.

Then next time capitalize it from the beginning.

Even if you're not willing to assume there is a possibility of someone not understanding your point, at the very least assume that making an easy-to-make error can drastically change what the message is saying.
Because whether you're willing to admit it or not, saying "Peach is the first lady of Nintendo" gives a whole different idea than "Peach is the First Lady of Nintendo".

You don't have to be quite so literal all the time. People are smart. They can read between lines and catch references. Don't talk down to people or down talk the way you talk for people. It's rude to them. And unnecessary for you.

People are smart, but people aren't clairvoyant. They can't read your mind to know exactly what you mean if you say something that leads to a different interpretation than what you intended to say.

And if you're seriously preaching to me about how I should "be nice to everyone" and how I "shouldn't speak for people" (while hypocritically doing just that) just because I dared to point something out to you, you can kiss my Ignore List since I've grown tired of your bull.

Nor was I really ranting about Pauline, but merely bringing her up as someone who probably has it worse than Daisy when it comes to Mario games and merchandise in general.

Again, I was being a smartass.
Maybe if you read between the lines and caught the references and stopped being so literal, you would have seen that.

But there you wanted a rant, so you got one.

Aaaaaaand click on username and click "Ignore".

I think I remember the two of you having this discussion before. >~>

Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else that may have had this discussion with him before?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And the two of you make a splendid train crash.

Good night everybody.

 

[gameonion]

Am I the only one that loves this guy? I don't understand a word, but it's fun to watch him for some reason.

 

[memoryman3]

As it is now, there's really nothing that makes her stand out from Peach, since every game she appears on also features Peach (and the rest of the Mario cast) doing the same thing as her. Her only game that isn't a spin-off as her take the same role as Peach, that of a damsel-in-distress. She's kind of like Chrom in this regard.

Meanwhile, Peach's playable appearance in Super Mario Bros. 2 influenced her Smash moveset in the sense she has unique abilities that make her stand out from the rest of the cast, especially her floating ability and the turnip special move

Which the rest of the Mario cast could also do. They gave the turnips to Peach because her big playable appearance was that game, Plus it also fitted her concept as a rushdown character quite well. Ness inherited PK Thunder from Paula to give him a good moveset.

I feel like that Daisy isn't comparable to Chrom because he's only in a handful of games, and his moveset potential is already fully taken by Ike. He actually gets some goodrepresentation in Smash as an Assist character of sorts. Compared to Daisy's three trophies.

Daisy has been appearing as a playable character consistently over the years, and there's so much that they haven't done with Mario in Smash yet that it can make a good moveset.

She has an affinity with flowers? Then give her a glider (that she used in Mario Kart 8) that can snap in two to deal damage. Make her use Piranha Plants as a sort of command grab, because Piranha Plants sure are underrepresented in Smash in general. Maybe she can have a move that has her dashing a trail of flowers...which slow the opponent so she can whack them with a dice block.

There's loads of Daisy movesets that pull from various Mario games in her support thread.

Smash Bros. is one of the best chances to show that Daisy can stand out on her own from Peach and Rosalina and get her into the spotlight, or at least a bigger role, in Mario games. Characters that are represented in Smash Bros are basically immortalised for an entire console generation thanks to Amiibo, and those who don't get left in the dust. Half of the characters would have been history if it wasn't for this game.

 

[gameonion]

Which the rest of the Mario cast could also do. They gave the turnips to Peach because her big playable appearance was that game, Plus it also fitted her concept as a rushdown character quite well. Ness inherited PK Thunder from Paula to give him a good moveset.

I feel like that Daisy isn't comparable to Chrom because he's only in a handful of games, and his moveset potential is already fully taken by Ike. He actually gets some goodrepresentation in Smash as an Assist character of sorts. Compared to Daisy's three trophies.

Daisy has been appearing as a playable character consistently over the years, and there's so much that they haven't done with Mario in Smash yet that it can make a good moveset.

She has an affinity with flowers? Then give her a glider (that she used in Mario Kart 8) that can snap in two to deal damage. Make her use Piranha Plants as a sort of command grab, because Piranha Plants sure are underrepresented in Smash in general. Maybe she can have a move that has her dashing a trail of flowers...which slow the opponent so she can whack them with a dice block.

There's loads of Daisy movesets that pull from various Mario games in her support thread.

I don't know if I see this correctly, but you're comparing Spin-Offs with Main Series-Titles. Daisy may have appeared in many games, but she mostly only appeared in Spin-Offs in a playable-form. And even if we use that logic, other Spin-Off characters like Waluigi deserve it more to be honest. Make her an assist-trophy and I'm happy. I don't need her in playable form.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

And the two of you make a splendid train crash.

Good night everybody.

Didn't even really call myself starting anything with Golden.

Didn't even know he had beef with me personally.

Oh well.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Daisy rants and arguments?

The toxicity levels are going up ever so slightly....

 

[memoryman3]

I don't know if I see this correctly, but you're comparing Spin-Offs with Main Series-Titles. Daisy may have appeared in many games, but she mostly only appeared in Spin-Offs in a playable-form. And even if we use that logic, other Spin-Off characters like Waluigi deserve it more to be honest. Make her an assist-trophy and I'm happy. I don't need her in playable form.

People make it like the Mario spin-offs don't mean anything. But they do. No other franchise can afford to have as many of them besides Mario and Pokemon, and Pokemon has such a large cast that it's just not feasible to include them all.

Some of the best selling Nintendo games of all time feature characters like Daisy, Toadette and Waluigi as playable characters who appear on a consistent basis, but when it's comes down to the biggest party game, they are unfairly excluded.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Didn't even really call myself starting anything with Golden.

Didn't even know he had beef with me personally.

Oh well.

To be fair, you came off as a tad preachy and demeaning in the last post of the debate.

Not your best post Heaven.


But regardless, let's all just move on.





Yo @Zoroarking

Which EO game is the best starting point?

I liked the IV demo.

 

[vaanrose]

Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else that may have had this discussion with him before?

Lol, I dunno. But this discussion comes up every time he's used the specific words 'first lady' to describe Peach.

Tree Gelbman , you did it to yourself before, too. >u>

I'd be for it. People love to say [Pauline] has no chance, but they seem to have forgot she's essentially the original first lady of Nintendo.

 

[powerprotoman]

the self fufilling prophecy of daisy as has it as allways been is as thus
daisy fans complain that daisy isnt in enough game
non daisy fans get sick of hearing it for the 40th time
daisy fans create daisy haters
haters outgrow fan support
haters convince nintendo to not include daisy
so as it has been so shall it bee for the rest of time

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We should just include Petey Piranha.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Didn't mean to be preachy or come across that way. Just found this to be such a strange thing to be fixated on. I was aware the words first lady with Pauline and Peach had come up before and didn't really think it such a major thing that they both share the two words in different ways. Mostly everyone on this board knows that and the roles they play in Nintendo and it's past and present.

 

[memoryman3]

the self fufilling prophecy of daisy as has it as allways been is as thus
daisy fans complain that daisy isnt in enough game
non daisy fans get sick of hearing it for the 40th time
daisy fans create daisy haters
haters outgrow fan support
haters convince nintendo to not include daisy
so as it has been so shall it bee for the rest of time

I coin this the Daisy cycle.

It's eerily similar to the Sonic cycles and the Wii U cycles which bothered me in the past.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

QUICK CHALLENGE!

Make a moveset for Captain Toad, Daisy, Paper Mairo, Petey and Nabbit!

 

[Ezequieleste]

QUICK CHALLENGE!

Make a moveset for Captain Toad, Daisy, Paper Mairo, Petey and Nabbit!

All of them different skins for peach down B. GG Easy

 

[Swamp Sensei]

All of them different skins for peach down B. GG Easy

They are all turnips?

I'm scared.

 

[Ezequieleste]

Neutral B sorry

 

[powerprotoman]

toads down b should be pluk ala peach except he grabs froward and if it hits he can run around with you over his head and throw you....and no this can be like dks grab because toad would retain full mobility just like in mario 2

 

[memoryman3]

Daisy:

SIDE B: Flowebed Return, which is a trapping move

DOWN B: Dice Block, a projectile that relies on significant RNG.

UP B: Flower Glider....which can snap and be used as a weapon for Daisy to whack her opponents. If she does this she loses her recovery. This can be her unique property.

NEUTRAL B: Pirahna Plant, a command grab that involves her whipping out a Jumping one for aggressive purpose.

Final Smash: She gets her gear from Mario Strikers and unleashes swarms of piercing crystals at her opponents.

Next up is Nabbit!

 

[Frostwraith]

Which the rest of the Mario cast could also do. They gave the turnips to Peach because her big playable appearance was that game, Plus it also fitted her concept as a rushdown character quite well. Ness inherited PK Thunder from Paula to give him a good moveset.

Also because Mario and Luigi already had established movesets, but good points there.

I feel like that Daisy isn't comparable to Chrom because he's only in a handful of games, and his moveset potential is already fully taken by Ike. He actually gets some goodrepresentation in Smash as an Assist character of sorts. Compared to Daisy's three trophies.

Chrom has a very different fencing style compared to Ike.

If anything blame both Marth and Ike for Chrom not appearing in the game. Chrom isn't that much of a burly swordsman as Ike, but isn't as regal as Marth, so he comes off as a mid-point between both.

Even so, Chrom could use spears, as his Project X Zone 2 appearance shows. Though Sakurai did think Robin brought more to the table with magic tomes and the weapon durability mechanic.

Daisy has been appearing as a playable character consistently over the years, and there's so much that they haven't done with Mario in Smash yet that it can make a good moveset.

Well, the same could be said about Toad and after 4 Smash games, but he's yet to be more than a special move for Peach.

She has an affinity with flowers? Then give her a glider (that she used in Mario Kart 8) that can snap in two to deal damage. Make her use Piranha Plants as a sort of command grab, because Piranha Plants sure are underrepresented in Smash in general. Maybe she can have a move that has her dashing a trail of flowers...which slow the opponent so she can whack them with a dice block.

Okay, I'll give you the dice block, but I don't think Piranha Plants would fit her. Those would better fit the likes of Bowser or Bowser Jr... Or even Waluigi.

Still fits the flower motif, regardless. It's not like there aren't characters that have moves taken from other characters of the same franchise, so it's not that far fetched.

There's loads of Daisy movesets that pull from various Mario games in her support thread.

I guess you could say that, but she would still have some lingering similarities to Peach, at least for normal moves. Peach's forward Smash would work on Daisy just as fine.

Special moves, on the other hand, are a whole different matter because some of Peach's moves wouldn't even make sense on her.

Of course, there's also replacing the hearts and all that with a flowery motif. That can work.

I'm not exactly against Daisy's inclusion, but to say there aren't any overlapping similarities between her and Peach is false. Sakurai could use those similarities as a reason to make her a Peach derivative of sorts, having some similarities, but also some unique moves and motifs.

Ness and Lucas may have a lot of differences, but there's still a lot of similarities between them because ability-wise, they ARE similar.

Smash Bros. is one of the best chances to show that Daisy can stand out on her own from Peach and Rosalina and get her into the spotlight, or at least a bigger role, in Mario games. Characters that are represented in Smash Bros are basically immortalised for an entire console generation thanks to Amiibo, and those who don't get left in the dust. Half of the characters would have been history if it wasn't for this game.

Are you comparing Daisy to the likes of Marth, Lucas, Robin, Shulk or Pit? If you are, it's not a terribly good comparison.

Yes, plenty characters would've been history because their games are obscure and Smash isn't, getting much more exposition that otherwise would. Captain Falcon is a prime example of this. No one would care about him if he hadn't appeared in Smash in the first place.

However, Daisy appearing in Mario Kart, a franchise about as popular as Smash, gives her a lot of exposure already. Even without Smash, Daisy is fairly well-known thanks to her consistent appearances in the Mario spin-offs since the late 90's or early 2000's. That's about 15 years of constant appearances in games, which can't be said about obscure characters like those I've mentioned.

 

[PushDustIn]

I don't hate Daisy...but I think with her current situation it will be highly unlikely Sakurai would pick her.

The only Mario spin-off game to be fully recognized in Smash is Mario Kart, Paper Mario and Mario Tennis (via Waluigi). Yes, there were some Mario Strikers/other Mario spin-off stickers in Brawl and trophies here and there...and some characters may have movesets at least inspired by those games...but in terms of 'main attraction' only Mario Kart, Paper Mario Mario Tennis have fully been mentioned really. Despite the fact that Mario Party is just as big as Mario Kart, it has essentially 0 representation. Basing a full moveset and character on Mario spin-off games seems unlikely to me....especially when most of those spin-offs have been handled by various companies so there isn't a clear definition of what may be considered "canon".

My recommendation for Daisy fans is this: get her into a new Mario game. If she is in a canonical title, it will be a lot harder for Sakurai to pass her up. Jumping straight into Smash seems unlikely; I think baby steps are needed before she's actually ready for Smash.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Everyone here is talking about Daisy. Meahwhile i am searching idea for a moveset for Count Bleck and maybe Fawful. Yeah, i known those 2 character have no chance to be in Smash. But a man can dream, no?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I'm loving all of the reactions of people freaking out that Counter Strike is being aired on Fox Sports 1 lol

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

My recommendation for Daisy fans is this: get her into a new Mario game. If he is in a canonical title, it will be a lot harder for Sakurai to pass her up. Jumping straight into Smash seems unlikely; I think baby steps are needed before she's actually ready for Smash.

She, Push. My life of knowing Daisy has been a lie.

But basically everything that's been said by the mods/Heaven is how I see Daisy. I like Daisy, Hell, love her as much as Rosie, but as Push said, Daisy as a character will stay in limbo by people's perception of her thanks to memes and the like, and that her place as a character in Smash of all things, she needs a more important role in the Mainline Mario games somewhere, or, much like Wario, have her own game sub series. But the likelihood of either happening is next to none from how Nintendo seems to care about her as a character compared to the other cast.

The fanbase is what makes people hate Daisy more it seems, but the fanbase is what will determine if Nintendo can be convinced she's more than "Peach 2.0",, from how she was initially conceptualize.

 

[Frostwraith]

Goddess Palutena is more like Goddess of Sass.

Them taunts and victory lines against Pit and Dark Pit.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Gosh, i am listening again Tarzan music and my heart have again explose in nostalgia! >_< I love this movie.

Oh and also, i will say that the thing that make Daisy more hated by people is her fanbase. I don't learn you something new but i think it's becoming more worse with time. As a fan, you should not try to give a bad image of the character you supporting. You should do the inverse. Or else, you will become the next Ridley.

 

[memoryman3]

I don't hate Daisy...but I think with her current situation it will be highly unlikely Sakurai would pick her.

The only Mario spin-off game to be fully recognized in Smash is Mario Kart, Paper Mario and Mario Tennis (via Waluigi). Yes, there were some Mario Strikers/other Mario spin-off stickers in Brawl and trophies here and there...and some characters may have movesets at least inspired by those games...but in terms of 'main attraction' only Mario Kart, Paper Mario Mario Tennis have fully been mentioned really. Despite the fact that Mario Party is just as big as Mario Kart, it has essentially 0 representation. Basing a full moveset and character on Mario spin-off games seems unlikely to me....especially when most of those spin-offs have been handled by various companies so there isn't a clear definition of what may be considered "canon".

My recommendation for Daisy fans is this: get her into a new Mario game. If he is in a canonical title, it will be a lot harder for Sakurai to pass her up. Jumping straight into Smash seems unlikely; I think baby steps are needed before she's actually ready for Smash.

Actually, Mario Kart got two stages and several items, plus a good handful of songs. Also, Daisy herself has multiple trophies in Smash Wii U. It's like saying that Issac from Golden Sun has absolutely no chance to be in Smash because his franchise is barely represented at all; with just two songs.

And Smash has actually done great things for certain characters, even within the Mario franchise. All Smash 4 characters have amiibo, and amiibo is BIG for Nintendo. A good example of how Smash can affect characters in other games are Super Mario Maker, Kid Icarus Uprising and the Fire Emblem franchise. In the case of Kid Icarus, Pit's design and personality is heavily influenced by Smash Bros. Brawl for example, and Dark Pit becoming a character guaranteed an amiibo for him. Which in turn guaranteed his appearance in future games. Lucina would have never been mentioned in Fire Emblem Fates and Codename STEAM if she didn't make the cut in Smash Bros. The only special cases are Animal Crossing and Captain Toad where the developers requested amiibo for said games.

As for Mario Maker, characters such as Sonic, Chibi-Robo, Pac-Man and Dark Pit all make their debut in a Mario platformer whilst Daisy is missing altogether. Why is that? Two reasons, she was not in Smash 4's starting roster, and Nintendo probably considers her to not be wacky enough to earn a non-amiibo costume, hence Waluigi's inclusion. Just one of the key examples on how Smash can affect characters in their own series.

You don't see the King.K.Rool fans giving up just because he got booted out of his own series, and waiting for him to appear in DKCR3. They support the character enough for him to be considered a viable contender for DLC, even gaining the attention of Retro Studios in the process. If he appears in future DKC games, it will surely be because of his Smash campaign.

 

[---]

Let's talk about how some non-Nintendo games aged
Final Fantasy?
Castlevania?
Mega Man?
Something else?

I was going to make a 3 paragraph rant on why Punch-Out has aged great but I think this express everything I had to say

IMO: Metroid, Fire Emblem 1, and Startropics are the only Nintendo NES titles I'd say have aged horribly. They're still fun to pick up IMO, but there are better options out there now.

Joy Mech Fight has also aged, but it can be forgiven since it pushed the system's limits and why would you play an 8bit fighter anyway?

Only SMB1 has aged due to the physics, but like it's sequels is still a lot of fun.

SMB2, SMB3, and Kirby's Adventure are all still great despite the graphical remakes they got.

Kid Icarus has aged a little bit, but not much IMO.

Only Mother 1's battle system has aged poorly IMO. It's still a worthwild game to playthrough given it's charm and emotional storyline.

Fire Emblem Gaiden has aged a little due to being a black sheep, but its still very much worth picking up due to the sheer amount of improvements it made over the original.

Zelda 1 and 2 have aged fine IMO bar the cryptic Zelda 2 stuff (get a guide, also Death Mountain is not hard). Honestly I enjoyed them more than any of Zelda titles after them bar Minish Cap & ALBW.


I could talk forever about the NES, but I will say that Mega Man is probably the NES series that has aged the least if at all. MM9&10 I think is proof of that.

By the way, if some of you are looking into getting a bit more into retro gaming, you should seriously look into playing some SEGA Master System games. The NES is my favorite 8-bit system just do to the shear volume of great games, but the Master System was pretty fantastic, and it was certainly a more powerful piece of hardware. I was going to post some videos of games of mine that are personal favorites, but I'll just post some random top ten list I found instead.

Once I'm done with my NES collection I'm probably going to either Master System or Genesis next. SNES will depend on prices.

Genesis the most I'm looking at spending is just Panorama Cotton, MUSHA, Alien Soldier, and Battle Mania. Master System just has Golden Axe Warrior and Power Strike 2 (not interested in those weird 16bit/Game Gear ports).

Sonic 1 Master System I actually like better than the Genesis version (bar Green Hill Zone), and Phantasy Star is the best 8bit RPG out there IMO:

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/lucas.html
"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now"

Oh no! Poor Ness!

Spoiler

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but try not to look too deep into everything Sakurai says.

Say what you will, but that had me on my toes. Especially the part where it originally said "can he possibly replace Ness?"

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlDYx5cmA
"Zelda joins the battle!! It's great to see so many female characters this time around."

Interesting that they would boast about the amount of female characters when revevealing Zelda.
Guys, I think Zelda is going to be our last female character.

Those people on the other hand...must have taken something fierce to interpret it like that.

----

 

[TheAnvil]

If MemoryMan3 starts spamming Daisy crap here like he does on gamefaqs I swear to god...

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

I advise just ignoring it if he bothers people that much. The last thing this thread needs again, is another pointless heated debate.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I advise just ignoring it if he bothers people that much. The last thing this thread needs again, is another pointless heated debate.

I am 100% with you on this one. We have just escaped the Rumor Salt Train, are we really now to go into the Daisy Fire Boat?

 

[memoryman3]

I am 100% with you on this one. We have just escaped the Rumor Salt Train, are we really now to go into the Daisy Fire Boat?

Daisy's slowly becoming the new Ridley from my experience ...

 

[Metal Shop X]

Daisy's slowly becoming the new Ridley from my experience ...

Then you need that it doesn't happen.

If you are really a fan of Daisy. The first thing you need to do is not making people hate Daisy.

Or else, you will fail at why you intented to do in the first place. And this sire, is not a good thing for you or any of us.

So now, be careful on that and like this. We won't end in a horrible debate. Thanks for watching this probably poor use of Phoenix Wright gif.

 

[PushDustIn]

Actually, Mario Kart got two stages and several items, plus a good handful of songs. Also, Daisy herself has multiple trophies in Smash Wii U. It's like saying that Issac from Golden Sun has absolutely no chance to be in Smash because his franchise is barely represented at all; with just two songs.

And Smash has actually done great things for certain characters, even within the Mario franchise. All Smash 4 characters have amiibo, and amiibo is BIG for Nintendo. A good example of how Smash can affect characters in other games are Super Mario Maker, Kid Icarus Uprising and the Fire Emblem franchise. In the case of Kid Icarus, Pit's design and personality is heavily influenced by Smash Bros. Brawl for example, and Dark Pit becoming a character guaranteed an amiibo for him. Which in turn guaranteed his appearance in future games. Lucina would have never been mentioned in Fire Emblem Fates and Codename STEAM if she didn't make the cut in Smash Bros. The only special cases are Animal Crossing and Captain Toad where the developers requested amiibo for said games.

As for Mario Maker, characters such as Sonic, Chibi-Robo, Pac-Man and Dark Pit all make their debut in a Mario platformer whilst Daisy is missing altogether. Why is that? Two reasons, she was not in Smash 4's starting roster, and Nintendo probably considers her to not be wacky enough to earn a non-amiibo costume, hence Waluigi's inclusion. Just one of the key examples on how Smash can affect characters in their own series.

You don't see the King.K.Rool fans giving up just because he got booted out of his own series, and waiting for him to appear in DKCR3. They support the character enough for him to be considered a viable contender for DLC, even gaining the attention of Retro Studios in the process. If he appears in future DKC games, it will surely be because of his Smash campaign.

Wouldn't really make sense to have the two Mario Kart stages without Mario Kart songs wouldn't it? Yes, she does have multiple trophies, and has been a trophy since Melee if I'm remembering correctly. Like I said before, going from having very limited Mario representation to full on Smash fighter is a big jump. I think fans would be more successful if they appealed for a sequel to Mario Land. Maybe you are right, and that the Smash Ballot will help her get noticed. I just don't think it's likely for her to get in via the ballot. If anything I could see her being an unlockable character in the next main game, as I really don't think the Daisy fanbase is that big (just like Bowser Jr. was an unlockable in Smash for Wii U/3DS).

It's like saying that Issac from Golden Sun has absolutely no chance to be in Smash because his franchise is barely represented at all; with just two songs.

My issue with Isaac is that Golden Sun is unlikely to receive a sequel, and it's not technically a retro. He could come back for a revival, but I think his chances as DLC is pretty low.

As for Mario Maker, characters such as Sonic, Chibi-Robo, Pac-Man and Dark Pit all make their debut in a Mario platformer whilst Daisy is missing altogether. Why is that? Two reasons, she was not in Smash 4's starting roster, and Nintendo probably considers her to not be wacky enough to earn a non-amiibo costume, hence Waluigi's inclusion. Just one of the key examples on how Smash can affect characters in their own series.

Then why did DK Jr get into Mario Maker? Shy Guy? Sidestepper? Shellcreeper? Wii Balance Board? Foreman Spike? Dr. Lobe? Nikki? a Mahjong tile?

Don't even get me started on the leftover data/ potential DLC non-amiibo costumes for Mario Maker...

Don't blame her lack of Mario Maker representation on Smash Bros. She's a Mario character, she should've been in Mario Maker regardless of her status in Smash. All of the characters I listed are NOT in Smash 4's starting roster, and most of these aren't really all that wacky. The reason Daisy is missing from Mario Maker is because either the proper Mario team decided that they didn't *need* to include her, or because they are saving her for eventual DLC. With so many costumes you really can't blame Smash. It's a symptom of the problem...not the actual issue (which is Nintendo not really caring about her).