Social NintenZone Social 2.0: Remember That Time Candle Jack Visited Swa

[egaddmario]

He's not biased, in fact he seems to have had trouble making Pit and Palutena more powerful.

Palutena could use a bit of help, but i think Pit and Dark Pit are actually in good places right now. They're jack of all trades characters- good at everything but not excelling in anything.

I think he was talking about how Sakurai's reason to make Dark Pit a separate character was the final smash, yet the Koopaings turn into Shadow Mario

I was expecting the airships to come in and bomb the stage- would've made sense with all 8 of them. But I do like how Shadow Mario appears.

 

[Kenith]

The artstyle of both of them suck tho
At least Brawl reedems itself with good gameplay and story :^)

No...they don't...
At least I don't think so...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's more reasonable for them to turn into Shadow Mario via magic than it is for someone not affiliated with Palutena's Army (especially one established to be working with the Forces of Nature) to use her Three Sacred Treasures.

You'd have a better argument with Alph using the Hocotate Ship, even though the trophy for End of Day hints that Olimar is loaning Alph the ship for use in Smash.

It wasn't my argument, not to mention the fact Dar Pit wouldn't be the first character to borrow a final smash, if Sakurai wanted to, he could have had said Dark Pit found shattered remains at the end of Uprising and fixed them up or something

 

[Frostwraith]

The real reason Dark Pit has the different Final Smash is because it was viable in terms of development.

Both Zelda's Light Arrows and the Dark Pit Staff consist in firing a powerful long-ranged projectile in their original games. Same thing in Smash. Bam, they can easily be re-skins of one another.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I have a growing fondness of Gilgamesh in the FF games. Big Bridge so gud

 

[Frostwraith]

Despite Dark Pit having a different Final Smash compared to Pit, his Final Smash is still a cloned move, just not from the same character all other moves are cloned from.

I think characters are better defined not by their moves but by their identity and characterization. If Dark Pit had the Three Sacred Treasures somehow, but still retained his personality and character traits, Sakurai coming with whatever explanation for why he uses the 3ST, I'd be okay with it.

It bothers me more that the localization team butchered Lucina's personality in certain lines than Ganondorf being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. Lucina acting smug to Marth and Ike is out of character for her and is something that doesn't happen in the Japanese version, where she's in awe to have fought against such legendary characters in flesh.

Knowing that she's correctly portrayed in the Japanese version alleviated my feelings regarding this. The rest of her English lines are overall okay, except her "You'll never defeat me!", where the tone is a little too condescending: if she had a similar tone to her "You will not stop me!" critical quote from FEA, it would've been more in-character. Her personality is also intact in the trailer, so it's really a few lines that were poorly done.

 

[Fenriraga]

I have a growing fondness of Gilgamesh in the FF games. Big Bridge so gud

You BETTER be fond of Gilgamesh!
Does this look like a guy you wanna get on the bad side of? Quiver in fear, mortals!

 

[Dinoman96]

He's not biased, in fact he seems to have had trouble making Pit and Palutena more powerful.

Pit is actually pretty good (I myself can't play him very well though). Palutena would be too if customs were allowed in For Glory and real tournaments.

I always look at videos of Aerolink and his custom Palutena, and feel sad that this character is basically banned from comp play.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Pit is actually pretty good. Palutena would be too if customs were allowed in For Glory and real tournaments.

I always look at videos of Aerolink and his custom Palutena, and feel sad that this character is basically banned from comp play.

Again, Nintenzilla worded it wrong, Sakurai said he's bad with the characters, that's all

You BETTER be fond of Gilgamesh!
Does this look like a guy you wanna get on the bad side of? Quiver in fear, mortals!

I feel like Gilgamesh should be an SE rep in smash if anything

 

[Soul.]

One thing I'll never understand is people thinking that Kid Icarus is a franchise made by Sakurai himself, even though this wasn't the case. It was only revived after more than 20 years of obscurity.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Despite Dark Pit having a different Final Smash compared to Pit, his Final Smash is still a cloned move, just not from the same character all other moves are cloned from.

I think characters are better defined not by their moves but by their identity and characterization. If Dark Pit had the Three Sacred Treasures somehow, but still retained his personality and character traits, Sakurai coming with whatever explanation for why he uses the 3ST, I'd be okay with it.

It bothers me more that the localization team butchered Lucina's personality in certain lines than Ganondorf being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. Lucina acting smug to Marth and Ike is out of character for her and is something that doesn't happen in the Japanese version, where she's in awe to have fought against such legendary characters in flesh.

Knowing that she's correctly portrayed in the Japanese version alleviated my feelings regarding this. The rest of her English lines are overall okay, except her "You'll never defeat me!", where the tone is a little too condescending: if she had a similar tone to her "You will not stop me!" critical quote from FEA, it would've been more in-character. Her personality is also intact in the trailer, so it's really a few lines that were poorly done.

To be fair, Marth and Ike had their personalities altered as well.

And if you want to go beyond Fire Emblem, Shulk has none of his serious demeanor from Xenoblade, which is present for most of his journey.

And if you want an EXTREME nitpick, then Mario is always super serious in Smash as opposed to the happy go lucky hero he usually is.

 

[Curious Villager]

Despite Dark Pit having a different Final Smash compared to Pit, his Final Smash is still a cloned move, just not from the same character all other moves are cloned from.

I think characters are better defined not by their moves but by their identity and characterization. If Dark Pit had the Three Sacred Treasures somehow, but still retained his personality and character traits, Sakurai coming with whatever explanation for why he uses the 3ST, I'd be okay with it.

It bothers me more that the localization team butchered Lucina's personality in certain lines than Ganondorf being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. Lucina acting smug to Marth and Ike is out of character for her and is something that doesn't happen in the Japanese version, where she's in awe to have fought against such legendary characters in flesh.

Knowing that she's correctly portrayed in the Japanese version alleviated my feelings regarding this. The rest of her English lines are overall okay, except her "You'll never defeat me!", where the tone is a little too condescending: if she had a similar tone to her "You will not stop me!" critical quote from FEA, it would've been more in-character. Her personality is also intact in the trailer, so it's really a few lines that were poorly done.

I wonder if Lucina's more condenscending personality has something to do with the localization team wanting to please the western crowd. Which from what I've seen, generally seem to like these type of female characters.

So I suppose like, box art Kirby?

 

[Fenriraga]

Again, Nintenzilla worded it wrong, Sakurai said he's bad with the characters, that's all

I feel like Gilgamesh should be an SE rep in smash if anything

We he DOES appear in just about every Final Fantasy so... I guess that makes enough sense lol.
But I still highly doubt they'd go with him over someone more iconic. Gilgamesh is usually a hidden boss/easter egg rather than a focal point of the games.

 

[TimidKitsune129]

I actually advocated for his inclusion and wouldn't have minded him as a costume for Pit. As long as he had the appropriate name and voice swap (like the Koopalings and Alph).

But the Final Smash is a logical addition and, as Sakurai explicitly stated, no matter how different two characters are, as long as they don't play 100% identically, they are treated as separate characters. This is a clear design choice.

The logic goes like this:
Characters A and B play 100% identically? If yes, they're selectable as costumes, sharing the same slot.
If not, they are treated as separate characters with individual slots and records.

It's very simple logic.

But couldn't one just apply any miniscule attribute to a clone character and make them different enough using that logic?

I'm gonna use Lucina as an example. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that Lucina was identical to Marth in everything save for having equal damage along the whole blade at the game's launch. Sakurai stated that she was originally gonna be an alt but was made playable due to "the characteristics of their attacks being different." But couldn't that apply to any character?

For example, I could say that Dry Bowser would be a good alt for Bowser, but then ponder the idea further and say, "You know, since Dry Bowser lacks skin and muscles, I could make him a faster Bowser that's easier to launch." Wouldn't it be the same as Lucina's case?

Not saying that I would have wanted Lucina to be an alt, she's one of my mains after all, but I'm confused on when exactly can we say that a character would play 100% identical or not when we can apply any random attribute to similar characters and say that they are different enough to have a different slot.

 

[Dinoman96]

One thing I'll never understand is people thinking that Kid Icarus is a franchise made by Sakurai himself, even though this wasn't the case. It was only revived after more than 20 years of obscurity.

He didn't make it but he revived it and the series is obviously associated with him now, especially when all of the content from KI in Smash 4 is from Uprising. Truth be told, Pit would of remained as the only major piece of KI representation if it weren't for Sakurai/Uprising.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wonder if Lucina's more condenscending personality has something to do with the localization team wanting to please the western crowd. Which from what I've seen, generally seem to like these type of female characters.

So I suppose like, box art Kirby?

I doubt that as Lucina's already an absolute badass in Awakening

We he DOES appear in just about every Final Fantasy so... I guess that makes enough sense lol.
But I still highly doubt they'd go with him over someone more iconic. Gilgamesh is usually a hidden boss/easter egg rather than a focal point of the games.

I'm just mentioning the possibility, especially as he's one of the most FF characters who appeared on Nintendo consoles

 

[Frostwraith]

To be fair, Marth and Ike had their personalities altered as well.

And if you want to go beyond Fire Emblem, Shulk has none of his serious demeanor from Xenoblade, which is present for most of his journey.

And if you want an EXTREME nitpick, then Mario is always super serious in Smash as opposed to the happy go lucky hero he usually is.

Well, Shulk's personality in Smash is just like his demeanor during battles in Xenoblade. It gets a bit jarring during serious moments: Shulk is all serious and dramatic during a cutscene, but when fighting the boss he's all "I'm really feeling it!" or "YEAH!!".

Pretty much all lines Shulk utters in Smash are taken from Xenoblade, being lines from either during battles, level ups or using skills.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, Shulk's personality in Smash is just like his demeanor during battles in Xenoblade. It gets a bit jarring during serious moments: Shulk is all serious and dramatic during a cutscene, but when fighting the boss he's all "I'm really feeling it!" or "YEAH!!".

Pretty much all lines Shulk utters in Smash are taken from Xenoblade, being lines from either during battles, level ups or using skills.

In Xenoblade he says 'I'm really feeling it' in a very serious tone

 

[Frostwraith]

I wonder if Lucina's more condenscending personality has something to do with the localization team wanting to please the western crowd. Which from what I've seen, generally seem to like these type of female characters.

So I suppose like, box art Kirby?

The localized version of FEA didn't have Lucina like that.

And it's not even a general thing: just specific to a few of her lines in Smash. The localized Robin/Lucina trailer has her true to FEA.

In Xenoblade he says 'I'm really feeling it' in a very serious tone

Doesn't sound serious to me, even in Xenoblade. lol

Still, you have to account the "Yeahs!" he utters often, even during serious boss battles.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Well, Shulk's personality in Smash is just like his demeanor during battles in Xenoblade. It gets a bit jarring during serious moments: Shulk is all serious and dramatic during a cutscene, but when fighting the boss he's all "I'm really feeling it!" or "YEAH!!".

Pretty much all lines Shulk utters in Smash are taken from Xenoblade, being lines from either during battles, level ups or using skills.

If you want to go strictly by battle demeanor, then yes, Shulk is accurate to his source game in that aspect, but considering his hyper idealistic nature and determination to his goal(saving someone, killing someone, getting an answer), it goes both ways.

Both accurately and inaccurately portrayed personality-wise.

 

[Curious Villager]

I doubt that as Lucina's already an absolute badass in Awakening

I think she had a bit less of a smug attitude though (if I recall correctly) compared to the way she talked to Marth than Ike.

Then again, I haven't played Awakening in a while so I may have forgotten..... :/

Then again, it was more or less for a few lines.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

To be fair, Marth and Ike had their personalities altered as well.

And if you want to go beyond Fire Emblem, Shulk has none of his serious demeanor from Xenoblade, which is present for most of his journey.

And if you want an EXTREME nitpick, then Mario is always super serious in Smash as opposed to the happy go lucky hero he usually is.

In my personal opinion, considering it is a fighting game, I feel it makes sense for him to be somewhat more serious in expression so I have no real problem with that.

 

[Soul.]

He didn't make it but he revived it and the series is obviously associated with him now, especially when all of the content from KI in Smash 4 is from Uprising. Truth be told, Pit would of remained as the only major piece of KI representation if it weren't for Sakurai/Uprising.

I get that, and it's reasonable to some extent, but I still don't get the creation thing. It probably has to do with people saying that a lot during pre-release hype, but ah well.

 

[LIQUID12A]

In my personal opinion, considering it is a fighting game, I feel it makes sense for him to be somewhat more serious in expression so I have no real problem with that.

Hence 'extreme nitpick'.

I don't have an issue with it either, it's more along the lines of what an unquestionably adamant Ridley fan that is very pissed at Sakurai's portrayal and consistency statement would say.

 

[Solfiner]

All of Shulk's lines in Xenoblade compared to Smash sound a lot more serious, probably because of different directing.

 

[Frostwraith]

If you want to go strictly by battle demeanor, then yes, Shulk is accurate to his source game in that aspect, but considering his hyper idealistic nature and determination to his goal(saving someone, killing someone, getting an answer), it goes both ways.

Both accurately and inaccurately portrayed personality-wise.

It's not like you ever see Shulk outside of battle in Smash, so there isn't any occasion that allows to show his calm and serious demeanor.

In my personal opinion, considering it is a fighting game, I feel it makes sense for him to be somewhat more serious in expression so I have no real problem with that.

I believe Miyamoto said that Mario characters are like actors or something like that.

Even Bowser switches a lot from being a menacing villain and being more comedic in the Mario games. Platformers have him portrayed as menacing, while the RPGs games tend to portray him as a sillier buffoon.

 

[Deleted member]

Most characters have different personalizations because they don't have to treat Smash as they have to treat whatever is happening in their games
Shulk has no need to be serious because he isn't on a revenge quest
Lucina is trying to prove she can kick everyone's asses and she isn't worried about saving some future
And Fem Robin can be a ***** to Lucina because this isn't canon
That's my headcanon at least

 

[LIQUID12A]

It's not like you ever see Shulk outside of battle in Smash.

The victory screen.

I might sound overly serious with this whole thing, but it's a fighting game, personality changes really shouldn't matter at all imho. You ideally want your character to be as badass as possible, so let a few creative liberties slide, no?

 

[Z25]

I'm so Excited for Plague of shadows! Can't for it's release today. And while unlikely, I hope we get a new smash DLC trailer before the end of TGS or today. I'd want either shovel knight, paper mario, or bandanna dee but would be happy with and buy anyone.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The localized version of FEA didn't have Lucina like that.

And it's not even a general thing: just specific to a few of her lines in Smash. The localized Robin/Lucina trailer has her true to FEA.


Doesn't sound serious to me, even in Xenoblade. lol

Still, you have to account the "Yeahs!" he utters often, even during serious boss battles.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need High Tension for those quotes? Tension would have been a nifty mechanic honestly

I think she had a bit less of a smug attitude though (if I recall correctly) compared to the way she talked to Marth than Ike.

Then again, I haven't played Awakening in a while so I may have forgotten..... :/

Then again, it was more or less for a few lines.

By that I meant I doubt that 'appealing to the west' was an argument as she was already badass and beloved by fans in Awakening

 

[Frostwraith]

The victory screen.

I might sound overly serious with this whole thing, but it's a fighting game, personality changes really shouldn't matter at all imho. You ideally want your character to be as badass as possible, so let a few creative liberties slide, no?

Creative liberties, indeed.

Otherwise, Peach would butt stomp Bowser every time he tried to kidnap her and we wouldn't have Mario games. XD

Plus, you can pick Team Battle and put Mario and Bowser or Link and Ganondorf in the same team even though that makes no sense.

 

[Z25]

Plague of shadows is LIVE!!!! Anyone who has shovel knight can get it now.

 

[Baskerville]

The victory screen.

I might sound overly serious with this whole thing, but it's a fighting game, personality changes really shouldn't matter at all imho. You ideally want your character to be as badass as possible, so let a few creative liberties slide, no?

True, but then you have someone like Yoshimitsu, who by design looks really cool but he does have some goofy moments of his own.

 

[BluePikmin11]

How many debates does it take for people to understand why Dark Pit and so much KI:U content is in Smash, the world may never know.

 

[Solfiner]

So anyways, playing Ace Attorney Investigations 2 and damn this first case is long. It's really good though, probably one of my favorite first cases in the franchise.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How many debates does it take for people to understand why Dark Pit and so much KI:U content is in Smash, the world may never know.

There's a difference between 'understand why' and 'like/think is justified'

 

[A Distant Demon]

How many debates does it take for people to understand why Dark Pit and so much KI:U content is in Smash, the world may never know.

It is too perfect of a scapegoat for people to give up on it. Maybe when Smash 5 comes out people will stop caring. But for now people will always irrationally hate the clones and KI

 

[Curious Villager]

The localized version of FEA didn't have Lucina like that.

And it's not even a general thing: just specific to a few of her lines in Smash. The localized Robin/Lucina trailer has her true to FEA.

True.

How many debates does it take for people to understand why Dark Pit and so much KI:U content is in Smash, the world may never know.

As much as it would take until people understand why clones exist.

In other words. Never.

Then again, I think it's more the fact that they are there that bothers them more then why they are there....

 

[DoodleDuck97]

I woke up to that amazing Hyrule Warriors Wind Waker Remix.
That Remix is so Awesome I need a 10 hour version now.
Toon series> Main series Zelda.

This is both hilarious and scarily accurate.

I do hope Tails comes back because he was a fun character in Sa1. & Knuckles.

Knuckles has it worse.

Where's Knuckles in Unleashed? Nowhere to be seen.
Colors? Only in the 3DS game in cameo appearances like Sonic Rush.
Generations? He's there, but he's not tagging along with the Sonics with his Classic counterpart like Tails, now is he?
Lost World? Left on the planet to die with everyone else that wasn't Sonic, Tails, or Eggman.

I'd ague Unleashed did Knuckles right. He was guarding the Master Emerald for once.

 

[Burb]

How many debates does it take for people to understand why Dark Pit and so much KI:U content is in Smash, the world may never know.

I don't even get why this one requires an explanation.

Every series represented in Smash has content from the latest games (with the sole exceptions being Kirby and Pac-Man). Even if Sakurai didn't make Uprising, I'm sure the bulk of the Kid Icarus content in SSB4 would've been from Uprising.