Social NintenZone Social 2.0: Remember That Time Candle Jack Visited Swa

[PushDustIn]

While there is logic behind that, it's just an assumption. No "source" behind it, so to speak.

I am pretty confident that 8 player Smash had nothing to do with the IC getting cut as Sakurai has gone on record as saying the 3DS limitations are what lead to their exclusion. If anything, I think it may have been the opposite of what you are proposing here, with Sakurai deciding to implement 8 player Smash after he realized IC would not work. I don't recall, was 8 player Smash discussed in the design documents?

Since the Ice Climbers don't even have an emblem (but rhythm, brainage, diary, etc exist) I wonder if they even got further than pre-production (before Sakurai joined the Smash for 3DS/Wii U team full time). I don't think it's that far fetched to assume a lot of the groundwork for the game was laid out while Sakurai was finishing Kid Icarus: Uprising.

I don't necessarily think that 8 Player Smash was the sole reason Ice Climbers were cut, but it's going to be the reason why they can't even come back as a Wii U exclusive.

 

[Firus]

Seeing how everyone started doing this after @Serebii turned up.
Might as well show My most wanted Megs's.
But three per gen is the way is I shall being doing it
Gen 1:
Mega Raichu, Mega Dragonite, Mega Golem
Gen 2:
Mega Blissey, Mega Tyranitar, Mega Donphan
Gen 3:
Mega Flygon, Mega Shiftry, Mega Camperupt
Gen 4:
Mega Gliscor, Mega Rhyperior, Mega Togekiss and I have a few more from this gen but as I said only three.
Bonus points if we ever got a Primal Dialga.
Gen 5:
Mega Emolga, Mega Scolipede, Mega Volcarona
Gen 6:
Mega Pangoro, Mega Noivern, Mega Talonflame

This is delayed, but Mega Camerupt and Mega Tyranitar already exist.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I do have to say this about Squirtle and Ivysaur- the whole "they would be random inclusions as separate characters" is basically the same thing as "Roy cannot be DLC because we already have a Marth derivative"- fan-made arguments with less merits based on Sakurai's statement and criteria for character inclusion. They are already veterans and in Squirtle's case, he's among the most famous Pokemon and a Pokemon fan-favourite.

 

[Chandeelure]

I am heavily disappointed that I am the only one that wants this sexy beast to exist.

It looks like a fusion between Entei and Terrakion.

Jigglypuff was not a weird inclusion in 64 at all, considering she was the second most popular Pokemon over in Japan at the time. She also had a recurring role on the anime and is still an iconic Nintendo character to this day.

In fact, the only "weird" inclusion in 64 was Ness and Falcon considering how obscure they were at the time and hardly could be considered Nintendo icons in contrast to the other 10 characters.



Source? And I mean actual first-hand source of Sakurai confirming that Jigglypuff was nearly cut due to time constraints and not merely considered a possible cut in Melee.

Jigglypuff was and is a weird inclusion because it's just a random popular Pokemon from the anime.
The only Pokemon that would not feel weird in Smash 64 are Pikachu and Mewtwo, the mascot and the main character of the first movie, IMO.

And about the source, I don't really remember, maybe Push knows.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don't necessarily think that 8 Player Smash was the sole reason Ice Climbers were cut, but it's going to be the reason why they can't even come back as a Wii U exclusive.

Possibly unlikely to work on Wii U=/= definetly wouldn't work. Don't treat that as a hard and objective fact.

 

[Champ Gold]

Certain characters can be easily cut but the Smash popularity helps.

Puff n Stuff hasn't been relevant for Pokemon in years and hasn't been in the anime in a while but she still sticks around due to being grandfathered in. Same with the retro characters, & the situation with &

 

[Spazzy_D]

Since the Ice Climbers don't even have an emblem (but rhythm, brainage, diary, etc exist) I wonder if they even got further than pre-production (before Sakurai joined the Smash for 3DS/Wii U team full time). I don't think it's that far fetched to assume a lot of the groundwork for the game was laid out while Sakurai was finishing Kid Icarus: Uprising.

I don't necessarily think that 8 Player Smash was the sole reason Ice Climbers were cut, but it's going to be the reason why they can't even come back as a Wii U exclusive.

Once again, you're just making an assumption. Don't get me wrong, it is a very logical assumption, and one I would agree with, but it is an assumption all the same. We're not sure what it is about the Ice Climbers that taxed the 3DS (I know @ vaanrose speculated it was the AI, and I'm not sure if Sakurai ever clarified,) and from my understanding the IC have always had a pretty simplified model and the poly count of both Climbers together is about equal to that of other fighters.

Is it likely that IC could not work on 8 player Smash? I'd say so. Do we KNOW that they couldn't? Nope, so we should probably stop pretending that we do.

 

[Frostwraith]

Jigglypuff and Sheik may seem like odd presences in the Smash roster nowadays, but were inclusions that made a lot of sense back when Smash 64 and Melee were released.

I'd say Sheik's case is a bit lessened this time due to Ocarina of Time 3D.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Jigglypuff and Sheik may seem like odd presences in the Smash roster nowadays, but were inclusions that made a lot of sense back when Smash 64 and Melee were released.

I'd say Sheik's case is a bit lessened this time due to Ocarina of Time 3D.

Sheik was grandfathered into Brawl as part of Zelda's moveset before being split off, so she really is in a unique situation. Sheik and Puff are likely helped out by the fact that they have been high tier in several Smash games, giving them the backing of the competitive community.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, I've just thought about something just after having updated my Top 100 :

Don't you think that 's 7th remind of 0² from Kirby 64 ?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Kewn

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...community-9-5-15.337642/page-11#post-20124762
The collection is complete!

 

[Frostwraith]

Hey, I've just thought about something just after having updated my Top 100 :

Don't you think that 's 7th remind of 0² from Kirby 64 ?

I'd say it's more like a White Mage color scheme. You know, from Final Fantasy.

 

[PushDustIn]

It looks like a fusion between Entei and Terrakion.

Jigglypuff was and is a weird inclusion because it's just a random popular Pokemon from the anime.
The only Pokemon that would not feel weird in Smash 64 are Pikachu and Mewtwo, the mascot and the main character of the first movie, IMO.

And about the source, I don't really remember, maybe Push knows.

Source about Jigglypuff almost getting the ax in Melee. Basically, Sakurai was strongly considering cutting Jigglypuff, but in the end decided he didn't want to leave the fans hanging.

Possibly unlikely to work on Wii U=/= definetly wouldn't work. Don't treat that as a hard and objective fact.

Once again, you're just making an assumption. Don't get me wrong, it is a very logical assumption, and one I would agree with, but it is an assumption all the same. We're not sure what it is about the Ice Climbers that taxed the 3DS (I know @ vaanrose speculated it was the AI, and I'm not sure if Sakurai ever clarified,) and from my understanding the IC have always had a pretty simplified model and the poly count of both Climbers together is about equal to that of other fighters.

Is it likely that IC could not work on 8 player Smash? I'd say so. Do we KNOW that they couldn't? Nope, so we should probably stop pretending that we do.

No we don't know 100%. Personally, I'm 95% confident. But I believe I've said, "I think" every time I've talked about it. Maybe in the next couple months we can see what happens to the game when we load 16 characters (not to mention items) in a stage that had to be specially tailored for 8 characters.

 

[Z25]

No Mega Zoroark? XD

He's one I want, but I don't know if he beats serperior, the other 2 come first though.

What would a Mega Swalot even look like?

Well if they went the Pokemon reborn route....

Spoiler

although technically that isn't a mega.

Or

Spoiler

which isn't to bad actually.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Are the original Final Fantasy games any good or are they horribly outdated? I haven't played any of them other than 10 and 13 so I kind of want to get back into them. I want to know if i should skip any.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Jigglypuff was not a weird inclusion in 64 at all, considering she was the second most popular Pokemon over in Japan at the time.

You have proof of that?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Thanks guys we finally reach 1000+ votes in less than 3 days! Thank you so so so much! <3

 

[JamesDNaux]

I got an Olimar Amiibo, I finally have one of my mains! I even managed to pre-order the retro 3-pack, so that's another main on the way. I didn't really want Duck Hunt or R.O.B. though, why'd G&W have to be exclusive to a bundle...

I actually would've liked the R.O.B. one if he had the Famicom colour scheme.

 

[Captain Fun]

Once again, you're just making an assumption. Don't get me wrong, it is a very logical assumption, and one I would agree with, but it is an assumption all the same. We're not sure what it is about the Ice Climbers that taxed the 3DS (I know @ vaanrose speculated it was the AI, and I'm not sure if Sakurai ever clarified,)

It was a combination of issues.

I couldn’t get them to work no matter how hard I tried: I removed as many joints as I possibly could, and even when I removed certain effects, like gravity, they still wouldn’t work. Olimar and his Pikmin were also extremely difficult, but I managed to at least get them to work.

Source(gaming).

Is it likely that IC could not work on 8 player Smash? I'd say so. Do we KNOW that they couldn't? Nope, so we should probably stop pretending that we do.

I mean, Smash Wii U gets small frame drops even in 2 player mode sometimes. It's not a longshot at all to say that 16 Ice Climbers + Items + Final Smash effects + Assist Trophies + Pokemon + Stage Elements would be too much. But nobody is speaking in absolutes.

 

[Deleted member]

Are the original Final Fantasy games any good or are they horribly outdated? I haven't played any of them other than 10 and 13 so I kind of want to get back into them. I want to know if i should skip any.

If you are gonna play Final Fantasy 1, play the Dawn of Souls for the GBA/Anthologies for the Playstation/20th anniversary PSP versions, which are much better than the NES version by a landmile.

The GBA version also includes Final Fantasy 2, so if you wanna try out both the 1st and 2nd game, i suggest you to get Dawn of Souls.

I also suggest you to skip the NES version of Final Fantasy 2 and don't even bother with the DS version of Final Fantasy 3.

I haven't even touched FF 3 for the NES, so i don't know about that one.

Final Fantasy 4 and 6 are the ones i reccomend to you. (not sure about FF 5 since i haven't beat it yet).

 

[Spazzy_D]

But I believe I've said, "I think" every time I've talked about it. Maybe in the next couple months we can see what happens to the game when we load 16 characters (not to mention items) in a stage that had to be specially tailored for 8 characters.

I don't necessarily think that 8 Player Smash was the sole reason Ice Climbers were cut, but it's going to be the reason why they can't even come back as a Wii U exclusive.

While you prefaced the first part of your statement with "I don't necessarily think," the second half (but it's going to be the reason why they can't even come back as a Wii U exclusive) was stated as straight fact. Watch your wording if you don't want people to misconstrue your statements.

I do agree the next few months will be fun. It should be interesting to see what road blocks modders have with 8 player Smash if and when Smash Wii U modding gets to that point.

 

[epicmartin7]

Welp. This could be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Hopefully the new direction they claim to be making for the next Mario game really works out for them.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Source about Jigglypuff almost getting the ax in Melee. Basically, Sakurai was strongly considering cutting Jigglypuff, but in the end decided he didn't want to leave the fans hanging.

Can you translate the relevant part, please?

 

[Captain Fun]

Welp. This could be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Hopefully the new direction they claim to be making for the next Mario game really works out for them.

It seems natural that they'd want to take it in a new direction. They released Mario Maker with a lot of tools for making NSMB style levels. If they're going to top that, future Super Mario games are going to either have to be a bit different from the one's we're used to, or more sophisticated than what you can create in Mario Maker (although they really already are, but still).

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Welp. This could be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Hopefully the new direction they claim to be making for the next Mario game really works out for them.

I have a really bad feeling about this.

 

[Spazzy_D]

If you are gonna play Final Fantasy 1, play the Dawn of Souls for the GBA/Anthologies for the Playstation/20th anniversary PSP versions, which are much better than the NES version by a landmile.

The GBA version also includes Final Fantasy 2, so if you wanna try out both the 1st and 2nd game, i suggest you to get Dawn of Souls.

I also suggest you to skip the NES version of Final Fantasy 2 and don't even bother with the DS version of Final Fantasy 3.

I haven't even touched FF 3 for the NES, so i don't about that one.

Final Fantasy 4 and 6 are the ones i reccomend to you. (not sure about FF 5 since i haven't beat it yet).

6 and 4 are masterpieces, in my opinion. 5 is extremely fun to play, the story is never more than "decent," but the class system is a lot of fun. You can really create some broken combinations as this is the first time Square attempted the job combination system.

I agree with you concerning the remakes of 1. I played 1 back in the day and enjoyed it, but it did not age well. The remakes replace the "number of spells" magic system with MP, and removes the issue were a character would attack nothing if you made them target an enemy and the enemy died before his attack. Those two changes make a world of difference.

I don't get the hate for the DS remake of 3. It's nothing special, but it's not terrible. It's more forgettable than anything.

To sum things up.... play 4-6 are definitely worth your time, and the remake of 1 isn't bad either.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

Corocoro is starting to leak:

So Zygarde turns into a dog/wolf and a kaiju, blob is a form of his, something's up with Greninja (apparently the magazine highlights the similarities of him to Ash), and the anime is shifting into the "XY & Z" season.

Damn it Vegeta why did you let Zygarde reach it's perfect form.It's gonna be the end of all us

 

[PushDustIn]

Can you translate the relevant part, please?

Nocturnal is working on translating the Melee site. I'll see if he can bump Jigglypuff's translation up. If not I'll do it in between Japanese DLC requests + my next project(s).

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, I've just thought about something just after having updated my Top 100 :

Don't you think that 's 7th remind of 0² from Kirby 64 ?

Spoiler

To be more accurate.

 

[vaanrose]

I am extremely confident 8 player Smash had nothing to do with Ice Climbers being cut, and was in fact implemented after their removal. 8 player Smash is *clearly* an afterthought of development. Sure, Sakurai's had the idea for several games, but it definitely feels like he decided to implement it in this one very last minute. Almost none of the stages in the game work in the mode without heavy alterations, and most of the stages that currently work in the mode were added after release via a patch. And as Push pointed out, even characters have their joint count reduced to work in the mode.

It shows a lack of foresight in the planning stages with regard to the mode. If the mode was planned from inception, things like stage and character complexity would have been taken into consideration more, rather than be allowed to balloon out and be fixed after the fact.

I've long felt that the Ice Climbers being cut wasn't a result of 8 Player Smash, but a cause of it. With the Climbers gone, the largest hurdle to getting 8 Player Smash running in something approaching a playable state is gone, too. I still believe the presence of the Polar Bear in Smash Run indicates a late run removal of the duo, which lines up with the idea that 8 Player Smash was a late run addition.

 

[Champ Gold]

Here's what Mega Zygarde looks like to me

Spoiler

 

[Geno Boost]

We need Wonderful 101 X Viewtiful Joe game.

 

[Deleted member]

We need Wonderful 101 X Viewtiful Joe game.

Viewtiful 102

 

[PushDustIn]

I am extremely confident 8 player Smash had nothing to do with Ice Climbers being cut, and was in fact implemented after their removal. 8 player Smash is *clearly* an afterthought of development. Sure, Sakurai's had the idea for several games, but it definitely feels like he decided to implement it in this one very last minute. Almost none of the stages in the game work in the mode without heavy alterations, and most of the stages that currently work in the mode were added after release via a patch. And as Push pointed out, even characters have their joint count reduced to work in the mode.

It shows a lack of foresight in the planning stages with regard to the mode. If the mode was planned from inception, things like stage and character complexity would have been taken into consideration more, rather than be allowed to balloon out and be fixed after the fact.

I've long felt that the Ice Climbers being cut wasn't a result of 8 Player Smash, but a cause of it. With the Climbers gone, the largest hurdle to getting 8 Player Smash running in something approaching a playable state is gone, too. I still believe the presence of the Polar Bear in Smash Run indicates a late run removal of the duo, which lines up with the idea that 8 Player Smash was a late run addition.

8 Player Smash was in the Project Proposal Slides, from April 2012.

I have Smash 4's development mapped out here. It was just starting around June 2011. So 8 Player Smash had to be conceived between June 2011, and April 2012. I'm sure they were already working on porting over assets at that time.

 

[Zhadgon]

Welp. This could be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Hopefully the new direction they claim to be making for the next Mario game really works out for them.

I think it will be great, each time they want to evolve Mario they always do something unbelievable and improve the formula with solid mechanics that later become a stepping stone to modern videogame design for future games, not only for Nintendo but for other companies and indie developers.

See;

Super Mario Bros > Super Mario Bros 3 > Super Mario World > Mario 64 > Sunshine > Mario Galaxy > Mario 3D World.

.n_n.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

Eh, to be honest I stopped missing Ice Climbers. Sure, it was sad they were gone, but I have over fifty other characters to pick from. And to be honest, if only one character keeps me from enjoying one of the biggest rosters Smash has had, what's the point of playing?

We got Mewtwo, Roy, and the Doctor back. So, things could've been worse.

 

[A Distant Demon]

We need Wonderful 101 X Viewtiful Joe game.

Yeah about that

Spoiler

They have already been inducted into the W101

 

[Champ Gold]

Yeah about that

Spoiler

They have already been inducted into the W101

Can't see **** Captain. Need better quality of the images

 

[A Distant Demon]

Can't see **** Captain. Need better quality of the images

Fixed. stupid wiki images always being deceptively small. . .

Will definitely try and get that "Dawn of Souls" version. Time to see what the hype is about.

 

[vaanrose]

8 Player Smash was in the Project Proposal Slides, from April 2012.

I have Smash 4's development mapped out here. It was just starting around June 2011. So 8 Player Smash had to be conceived between June 2011, and April 2012. I'm sure they were already working on porting over assets at that time.

This honestly doesn't change my opinion. These things aren't as rigid as that. Something like a third of the current 8 player stages only got implemented after the game was already released. This entire mode was clearly on the backburner for almost the entirety of development.