Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl General Thread - All Star Brawl 2 Available Today!

[Ze Diglett]

Y'all realize a game can still be fun even if it has Microtransactions right?

Like I hate them as much as the next guy but still, I will reserve judgement until the game is actually announced.

I understand that a free-to-play game with microtransactions can be good, I'm a fan of TF2, for god's sake. That said, this game is giving off zero signs of being good so far and thus I am not expecting it to be.

 

[amageish]

Yeah Warnermedia (the company that includes Warner Bros) own a lot of stuff. For reference, this Wikipedia article has a list of assets Warnermedia owns.

For the three mentioned characters, Stripe is from Gremlins (a WB movie). Gilligan's Island was a result of Turner acquiring MGM and then selling it, but keeping some of its assets (including the pre-1986 MGM library, the Popeye Cartoons, distribution rights to RKO Radio Pictures library, and, humorously, Warner's own pre-1950 library (including cartoons)). Robotron is because Williams (original developers also famous for games such as Defender) transferred rights to their Video Game franchises to Midway in 1996 (that same year Midway purchased Atari Games (not the actual Atari but a spin off corporation) which includes games such as Paperboy and Gauntlet). Warner Bros acquired the Midway library in 2009 and has used it in various game compilations and Lego Dimensions.

And with the merger with Discovery happening in the future, that adds a lot more potential properties (although I think the game will be out before the merger happens).

Yeah, I was digging through the Category: WarnerMedia franchises subsection yesterday, but I evidently missed some... It's, uh, impressive how much they own, even if it just makes the roster just harder to make while meeting everyone's expectations.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

I'll try and save my judgement for when its announced, but good God that new info on the Warner game definitely dampens my optimism. It being ftp is one thing, but I don't have a lot of faith in Warner Bros San Diego making this game anything other than a mobile-like money sink disguised as a game.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Best case scenario, it'll end up being similar to Killer Instinct, where you have a couple characters unlocked for free but you can purchase more individually or in bundles. I'm not really expecting it to be that good, but who knows.

Also I'm resisting the urge to gush about that game's soundtrack

 

[HyperSomari64]

I myself accidentally created a fan rule that estates that "Every third-party character should have been added only if it's series aired on a Nickelodeon channel one. (Main Nickelodeon, programming blocks or sister channels)"

 

[amageish]

I can't confirm that this will go through, but I've heard that there are discussions of Lebron James, the character from Space Jam who hates video games, being one of the first DLC fighters.

— Grubb (@JeffGrubb) October 25, 2021

Someone should maybe just make a thread to discuss the Warner rumour that isn't this thread, but also... uh... This game sounds properly insane.

I guess NASB is suddenly now looking like a very focused and grounded fighting game! As until two days ago, I thought that it was ****posty lol...

 

[LimeTH]

I can't confirm that this will go through, but I've heard that there are discussions of Lebron James, the character from Space Jam who hates video games, being one of the first DLC fighters.

— Grubb (@JeffGrubb) October 25, 2021

Someone should maybe just make a thread to discuss the Warner rumour that isn't this thread, but also... uh... This game sounds properly insane.

I guess NASB is suddenly now looking like a very focused and grounded fighting game! As until two days ago, I thought that it was ****posty lol...

I'm.... not sure how to feel about any of this.

 

[ivanlerma]

I can't confirm that this will go through, but I've heard that there are discussions of Lebron James, the character from Space Jam who hates video games, being one of the first DLC fighters.

— Grubb (@JeffGrubb) October 25, 2021

Someone should maybe just make a thread to discuss the Warner rumour that isn't this thread, but also... uh... This game sounds properly insane.

I guess NASB is suddenly now looking like a very focused and grounded fighting game! As until two days ago, I thought that it was ****posty lol...

Yikes, Lebron gets sucked into a virtual world again for this...

 

[PK-remling Fire]

I can't confirm that this will go through, but I've heard that there are discussions of Lebron James, the character from Space Jam who hates video games, being one of the first DLC fighters.

— Grubb (@JeffGrubb) October 25, 2021

Someone should maybe just make a thread to discuss the Warner rumour that isn't this thread, but also... uh... This game sounds properly insane.

I guess NASB is suddenly now looking like a very focused and grounded fighting game! As until two days ago, I thought that it was ****posty lol...

On paper that tactic makes a lot of sense. Between Smash Ultimate being announced and their final DLC character reveal, Smash Ultimate character discussion basically dominated Nintendo speculation. Every direct had hordes of people saying what character they wanted next, it was to the point where predicting the next fighter was a game in and of itself. Each new announcement seemed like a massive event in the gaming community and it got to the point where Nintendo had to preface directs with whether or not Smash Bros would be covered, as people were known to tune in just for Smash Bros.

Mix that sort of hype with what is perhaps one of the largest libraries of movie, comic book, and game characters the world has ever seen, and it seems like it could be a never-ending cash cow. Imagine people getting into heated discussions on twitter whether Beetlejuice or IT should be the next DLC character in Multiverse, or if they even start making fighters passes of their own. On paper something like that would basically print money.

However, the problem with this plan is the fact that the Smash Bros's dev team has been working on platform fighters for over 20 years, and even though the game isn't perfect, it is unmistakably high-quality. Smash Bros's reputation is well-earned, so if a character is included in the game, you know it's a big deal. Multiverse on the other hand is being developed by a new team that mainly only works on mobile titles, they seemingly haven't even hired people known for making competitively viable platform fighters like Nick did. Their ftp philosophy is already enough to turn some potential fans away, but my main worry is the quality of the game itself. Smash Bros may look simple, but there's a ton of depth underneath the surface that makes the game feel good to play. With an inexperienced or unmotivated team behind the wheel, Multiverse can easily fall into CN Punchtime Explosion territory, being a jumbled unbalanced mess that is simply unfun to both a casual and competitive audience. Of course it's not impossible that WB could make a great mechanically deep game out of Multiverse, but with their dev team and the ftp design, it seems like the main purpose of this game is just to sell characters.

With the vast library of characters at their disposal, this game looks like it will be as wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I can't confirm that this will go through, but I've heard that there are discussions of Lebron James, the character from Space Jam who hates video games, being one of the first DLC fighters.

— Grubb (@JeffGrubb) October 25, 2021

Someone should maybe just make a thread to discuss the Warner rumour that isn't this thread, but also... uh... This game sounds properly insane.

I guess NASB is suddenly now looking like a very focused and grounded fighting game! As until two days ago, I thought that it was ****posty lol...

Same, though I imagine it won't crop up until the proper announcement.

Compared to how Nick just went ahead with SpongeBob spin-offs after Hillenburg left for the big gift shop in the sky, this would be grave-turning enough to make James' ball spin by itself.

Or, to put it in layman's terms, this is wack, yo.

Suddenly I feel fine with waiting for months before we even get to NASB's early bonus brawlers.

 

[FreeFox]

Yeah, I was digging through the Category: WarnerMedia franchises subsection yesterday, but I evidently missed some... It's, uh, impressive how much they own, even if it just makes the roster just harder to make while meeting everyone's expectations.

Yeah, They have some many IPs that not even Space Jam 2 could fit them all in one place.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Smash Bros may look simple, but there's a ton of depth underneath the surface that makes the game feel good to play.

Agree to disagree on this part, but I think you're dead-on with the gist of your post. This game comes off as an EXTREME cashgrab, and the way things are looking, it's probably gonna be the Space Jam 2 of video games (and not just because it's WB).

 

[RileyXY1]

I have NASB now.

 

[dlewis53]

Agree to disagree on this part, but I think you're dead-on with the gist of your post. This game comes off as an EXTREME cashgrab, and the way things are looking, it's probably gonna be the Space Jam 2 of video games.

Out of curiosity, why do you disagree with that part?

 

[Alicorn]

I have NASB now.

How is it?

 

[Ze Diglett]

Out of curiosity, why do you disagree with that part?

This isn't necessarily the thread for it and I've discussed the issue at length elsewhere, but basically, I feel like for all its fanfare, Ultimate fails in a lot of areas where other platform fighters succeed - the movement especially is pretty bogged-down compared to indie alternatives like Rivals of Aether and NASB, there are lots of weird control inconsistencies that make basic maneuvers like dropping through platforms way harder than they should be, the game heavily rewards camping and non-interaction to a point where it's not really fun to play in my opinion, etc. (And the less said about the online, the better.)

 

[ivanlerma]

Yeah, They have some many IPs that not even Space Jam 2 could fit them all in one place.

Especially Cartoon Network.

List of cameos in Space Jam

PluDue to the premise where digital worlds are created with characters, locations, etc. from various Warner Bros. franchises, many characters from those franchises have cameos in Space Jam and Space Jam: A New Legacy. This page lists the cameos. Characters that have one or more lines of dialogue...

warnerbros.fandom.com

You Lied To Me, Wiki!!!

 

[dlewis53]

This isn't necessarily the thread for it and I've discussed the issue at length elsewhere, but basically, I feel like for all its fanfare, Ultimate fails in a lot of areas where other platform fighters succeed - the movement especially is pretty bogged-down compared to indie alternatives like Rivals of Aether and NASB, there are lots of weird control inconsistencies that make basic maneuvers like dropping through platforms way harder than they should be, the game heavily rewards camping and non-interaction to a point where it's not really fun to play in my opinion, etc. (And the less said about the online, the better.)

Eh, while there are some things I think All-Star Brawl does a bit better than Smash Ultimate (mainly in movement and the strong attacks), there are things that Smash does better (more attack options and better defense options) that balance things out.

 

[Guynamednelson]

better defense options

Ironically, Ultimate also got rid of running while shielding, which would help you play defensively, and it also nerfed grab ranges, which would help you counter a defensive player. I think Sakurai went a bit too overboard trying to get rid of the overly defensive/grab-focused meta of Smash 4.

 

[dlewis53]

Ironically, Ultimate also got rid of running while shielding, which would help you play defensively, and it also nerfed grab ranges, which would help you counter a defensive player. I think Sakurai went a bit too overboard trying to get rid of the overly defensive/grab-focused meta of Smash 4.

It's still better than All-Star Brawl, whose only real defensive action is blocking.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

With pro players thinking that good offense is the best defense, it is what it is. At least NASB isn't the quality of Bounty Battle.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Eh, while there are some things I think All-Star Brawl does a bit better than Smash Ultimate (mainly in movement and the strong attacks), there are things that Smash does better (more attack options and better defense options) that balance things out.

I dunno if it really does, to be honest. I find that the most important thing in any platform fighter is the movement, and if the game has fluid and expressive movement, everything else tends to fall into place. Because of that, even if Smash has more robust defensive options than something like NASB, I feel like it's ultimately less fun to play simply due to how restrictive the movement is.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I dunno if it really does, to be honest. I find that the most important thing in any platform fighter is the movement, and if the game has fluid and expressive movement, everything else tends to fall into place. Because of that, even if Smash has more robust defensive options than something like NASB, I feel like it's ultimately less fun to play simply due to how restrictive the movement is.

This is why I'd rather have Sakurai either go all-in on esports catering, or go all-in on his Brawl stance again. His team may be taking the time to model BF and Omega forms on every stage, but they're also continuing to do things like restricting movement because of unintentional things competitive players did. Hell it'd probably be less work to just let unintended movement options exist than it would be to make 100+ alternate stage models.

 

[BonafideFella]

Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl's CatDog - Designing For Integrity (Ft. The Duke of Dorks)

Designing For is a series which looks at a level in gaming, and analyzes a theme central to that level's design. In this episode, we look at CatDog, a charac...

m.youtube.com

plugging a favourite content creator

 

[Guynamednelson]

Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl's CatDog - Designing For Integrity (Ft. The Duke of Dorks)

Designing For is a series which looks at a level in gaming, and analyzes a theme central to that level's design. In this episode, we look at CatDog, a charac...

m.youtube.com

plugging a favourite content creator

That mentioning of quadrupeds having to handle items really makes me wonder how CatDog would handle items if they're implemented. Sure, as a supporter of certain quadrupedal Pokemon, I can assume those mons would hold items in their mouth in Smash, and Duck Hunt is a quadruped who's cartoonish enough to occasionally go biped for things like items, but the way CatDog would hold items in their hand in the show...doesn't mesh with how they're animated in NASB.

 

[Ze Diglett]

That mentioning of quadrupeds having to handle items really makes me wonder how CatDog would handle items if they're implemented. Sure, as a supporter of certain quadrupedal Pokemon, I can assume those mons would hold items in their mouth in Smash, and Duck Hunt is a quadruped who's cartoonish enough to occasionally go biped for things like items, but the way CatDog would hold items in their hand in the show...doesn't mesh with how they're animated in NASB.

I imagine they'd probably carry them on their back like with their grab. That's how characters seem to hold the unfinished items that are in the game's code, anyway.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I imagine they'd probably carry them on their back like with their grab. That's how characters seem to hold the unfinished items that are in the game's code, anyway.

Let me get this straight, every character is currently using their cargo throw animation to hold items if you mod them in?

I guess holding them on their back would work, because it doesn't seem to have the issues I have with other possible solutions:

Holding items in their mouth: This feels like something only Dog would be willing to do.
Going biped: Would require having radically different animations and hitboxes.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, it's gotten to the point where you folks wonder how the brawlers are going to hold items.

Yeah, the next news can't come soon enough.

 

[Guynamednelson]

So, it's gotten to the point where you folks wonder how the brawlers are going to hold items.

Yeah, the next news can't come soon enough.

Wondering how one brawler is going to hold items=/=wondering how all of them are. It's obvious how the rest of the cast would, or at least it should be.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Let me get this straight, every character is currently using their cargo throw animation to hold items if you mod them in?

I guess holding them on their back would work, because it doesn't seem to have the issues I have with other possible solutions:

Holding items in their mouth: This feels like something only Dog would be willing to do.
Going biped: Would require having radically different animations and hitboxes.

As far as I can tell, yes. The one video showcasing all the items has SpongeBob picking them up and he uses his cargo throw animation for it, so I assume that's at least tentatively how they all do it.

Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl's CatDog - Designing For Integrity (Ft. The Duke of Dorks)

Designing For is a series which looks at a level in gaming, and analyzes a theme central to that level's design. In this episode, we look at CatDog, a charac...

m.youtube.com

plugging a favourite content creator

Wow, this is an awesome video that explains pretty much everything I love about CatDog in this game. Duke of Dorks is just wrong, though; Cat is CLEARLY superior to Dog.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Protip to anyone watching SpongeBob online: make sure to get a website that actually shows the episodes in the right order (whether they're properly labelled under the right season is a different story).

 

[MBRedboy31]

Let me get this straight, every character is currently using their cargo throw animation to hold items if you mod them in?

I guess holding them on their back would work, because it doesn't seem to have the issues I have with other possible solutions:

Holding items in their mouth: This feels like something only Dog would be willing to do.
Going biped: Would require having radically different animations and hitboxes.

If there were Smash-esque handheld items in this game, they only would need to use one of their four hands to hold it, and they can still run with their other three. Their idle stance and running animation would need to be modified to hold one hand up only when they have an item, but Smash has examples of a character changing their stance when holding an item (Sora being the obvious example since he changes his idle pose completely, but there are others, like Cloud holding his sword with only one hand, and Ivysaur keeping its vine whip out to hold an item.) This doesn’t matter here since NASB uses the cargo throw function instead as aforementioned, but yeah.

 

[Guynamednelson]

This doesn’t matter here since NASB uses the cargo throw function instead as aforementioned, but yeah.

To be fair, I think that's just a placeholder anyway. Items were scrapped during development, therefore they didn't bother making separate animations for holding items.

 

[MBRedboy31]

To be fair, I think that's just a placeholder anyway. Items were scrapped during development, therefore they didn't bother making separate animations for holding items.

Have they specifically said that items are scrapped, just to be clear? I had assumed that they just didn’t have anywhere near enough time to add them in time for release, so they decided to delay working on them.

I also don’t think the cargo throw thing is a placeholder. Grabs already have multiple functions (for throwing players, throwing projectiles, and for throwing the ball in Sports mode) so it seems reasonable that they’d use them for items as well.

 

[amageish]

Hooooo boy, hope y'all like reading essays, because the patchnotes for the next update are gonna be MASSIVE

— Thaddeus Crews (@Repiteo) October 26, 2021

Rep confirms another big patch is coming soon. I assume this will be the big balance change one, featuring the hitbox fixes Rep has openly discussed working on for the last little while...

Coming next week on PC and then... whenever the console manufacturers approve it coming out on consoles.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Hooooo boy, hope y'all like reading essays, because the patchnotes for the next update are gonna be MASSIVE

— Thaddeus Crews (@Repiteo) October 26, 2021

Rep confirms another big patch is coming soon. I assume this will be the big balance change one, featuring the hitbox fixes Rep has openly discussed working on for the last little while...

Coming next week on PC and then... whenever the console manufacturers approve it coming out on consoles.

I assume that they'll move on to new stuff after that? Presumably with song modification first.

 

[amageish]

I assume that they'll move on to new stuff after that? Presumably with song modification first.

I'm sure song modification is a task that will be taken on shortly. Due to Swedish labour laws, there's some people currently on vacation (awkwardly including the person in charge of making online matchmaking work)... I imagine a lot of changes are going to be done in tandem with each other as different people work on their respective fields/expertise, so progress is likely to proceed non-linearly!

 

[LimeTH]

Has the Switch gotten ANY patches besides the day one patch yet? I'm hearing it's still at 1.0.

 

[dlewis53]

Hooooo boy, hope y'all like reading essays, because the patchnotes for the next update are gonna be MASSIVE

— Thaddeus Crews (@Repiteo) October 26, 2021

Rep confirms another big patch is coming soon. I assume this will be the big balance change one, featuring the hitbox fixes Rep has openly discussed working on for the last little while...

Coming next week on PC and then... whenever the console manufacturers approve it coming out on consoles.

Already? I haven't even gotten the most current patch yet; last I checked, it still isn't available for the Switch.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I really hope Garfield isn't late for Switch players.