Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl General Thread - All Star Brawl 2 Available Today!

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

True! There's a middle ground to have rather than completely throwing out main leads for random sides.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I find NASB as a series hits that middle ground pretty well with folks like SpongeBob alongside weirdos like Gertie, but I also disagree with the concept of "essential" characters in games like this. As for the cuts, I'm just gonna quote myself in the Unpopular Smash Opinions thread on that subject:

Cuts aren't an intrinsic bad like some (i.e. Smash fans) are convinced they are, and this is coming from a guy who lost his main as a kid. They're a healthy part of most fighting games that can make way for fun, new ideas while giving people time to miss the oldies and make their eventual comeback more impactful. This is why I view Mewtwo's absence in Brawl, baffling a decision as it was, as a net positive since it made his return in Smash 4 that much cooler. On the extreme end, I actually think rotating rosters for fighting games are pretty cool for this reason, and it's also why I think it'd be a largely good thing for the next Smash game to be a departure from Ultimate. Now that we've had all the characters in one game, we can definitely afford to trim some fat roster-wise.

That's to say nothing of how EIH has tainted other crossover fighter discourse, but just look at what the NASB2 thread was like from August to November last year if you wanna know about all that.

This is a fair stance to have and all, but my point in bringing up SFIII in particular isn't that Smash can or should do something like this. It's more an extreme example that cuts are not purely subtractive, just as inclusions aren't purely additive. The individual choices made matter more than the very existence of cuts themselves. You can argue that more is more and cuts should be avoided if possible, but frankly, I can't agree.

[...]

A 36-character roster is not necessarily better than a 25-character roster; I'm in the camp that thinks nothing of value was lost when Lincoln was cut, and a bunch of the other cut picks didn't do anything for me either. (Yes, I think adding two Turtles and cutting the other two was a perfectly defensible decision. Crucify me.)

Stuff like this is why I honestly don't think I'd like DrifloonEmpire 's proposal as much; I don't miss most of the vets from 1, and most of the new guys from 2 are just unambiguously good picks (at best, you've got Gerald, Gertie, Rocksteady, and maybe Azula to work with if you're gonna argue the contrary). At worst, I'd say we broke even, but again, fighting game rosters are just incredibly unimportant to me compared to the game's mechanics and how fun each individual character is.

There's also something to be said for how series with cuts end up having more unique characters in the long run than if they retain every character between games (see: practically every fighting game series), which I honestly think is a net positive. Sure, you may not be able to replicate specific matchups in every game, but in terms of gameplay variety, it's an absolute win. Even if a character you like gets cut, it's not like you can never play them again, y'know? It's like, even if you refuse to play NASB2 because Helga isn't in it, NASB1 is right there.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Well, by pure coincidence - Lincolnposting came back the exact same day I posted this. Just swap out some names for Nick characters and bam, mostly applicable.

Massive IMO for everything said here, but - maybe how Ludosity-pilled I am is coming out - I don't think there are many essential Smash characters, at least from an exclusively objective "iconic = better" perspective. There are many essential series, but from a strictly iconic perspective, you could count the truly essential characters on one hand, and most of them would be because of their popularity in Smash as an individual entity. Is there anyone who knows Fox McCloud outside of Smash who doesn't also at least remember the name "Peppy Hare"? Sure, the dog is the most remembered part of Duck Hunt, but a dogless duck would just as equally carry the message of "THIS IS DUCK HUNT FOR NES". When there are 151 Pokemon in its most popular era alone, and the series' appeal is based around choosing your favourite, how big a fish is Pikachu in the sea? At the time of Smash 64's release, Diddy Kong had more starring roles than DK (3v2), and you could argue arcade-era DK has stronger iconography in the mainstream conciousness than Country, putting Jr. on the table as a viable substitute (plus Young Cranky if you consider that a seperate character - in which case you also eliminate one of the essentials I agree on, as Link has been swapped out multiple times). Way more people have played as Daisy than you might think over in the "platformers are the main series" die-hard fandom echo chamber, and it's very, very close to the amount of people who have played as Peach. The Squid Sisters consistently draw packed crowds for hologram concerts, and Isabelle needs no saying.

Also, do you guys legitimately think Rocksteady is this obscure bit player? Even before NASB discourse force-fed me every bit of TMNT trivia you could imagine through cultural osmosis, I knew Bebop and Rocksteady not only as core TMNT imagery, but outright core 1980s cartoon imagery. That's a weird thing, a lot of platfighter fans really don't know anything about the 80s... Duck Hunt is a meme pick, Beetlejuice and Gizmo are more obscure than Samurai Jack... insane.

Also gonna repost this graphic I made a while back and have used a few times - keep in mind these are characters literally created by Ludosity, they'd know everything about every character. NASB being the way it is shouldn't be a surprise if you know Ludo, NASB not being MORE of the way it is would be the surprise

 

[fogbadge]

Well, by pure coincidence - Lincolnposting came back the exact same day I posted this. Just swap out some names for Nick characters and bam, mostly applicable.


Also, do you guys legitimately think Rocksteady is this obscure bit player? Even before NASB discourse force-fed me every bit of TMNT trivia you could imagine through cultural osmosis, I knew Bebop and Rocksteady not only as core TMNT imagery, but outright core 1980s cartoon imagery. That's a weird thing, a lot of platfighter fans really don't know anything about the 80s... Duck Hunt is a meme pick, Beetlejuice and Gizmo are more obscure than Samurai Jack... insane.

this is just how fandoms work. anything they don’t like is not normal has it ever been special

 

[Ze Diglett]

Also, do you guys legitimately think Rocksteady is this obscure bit player? Even before NASB discourse force-fed me every bit of TMNT trivia you could imagine through cultural osmosis, I knew Bebop and Rocksteady not only as core TMNT imagery, but outright core 1980s cartoon imagery. That's a weird thing, a lot of platfighter fans really don't know anything about the 80s... Duck Hunt is a meme pick, Beetlejuice and Gizmo are more obscure than Samurai Jack... insane.

Speaking personally, it's less that I think Rocksteady's a bad pick (his moveset looks neat, for what it's worth) and more that most people consider him being playable in a game without all four Turtles (or Shredder, or Bebop) to be questionable. Again, don't agree it's all that important, but I can't really argue with that line of reasoning.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Well, by pure coincidence - Lincolnposting came back the exact same day I posted this. Just swap out some names for Nick characters and bam, mostly applicable.


Also, do you guys legitimately think Rocksteady is this obscure bit player? Even before NASB discourse force-fed me every bit of TMNT trivia you could imagine through cultural osmosis, I knew Bebop and Rocksteady not only as core TMNT imagery, but outright core 1980s cartoon imagery. That's a weird thing, a lot of platfighter fans really don't know anything about the 80s... Duck Hunt is a meme pick, Beetlejuice and Gizmo are more obscure than Samurai Jack... insane.

Also gonna repost this graphic I made a while back and have used a few times - keep in mind these are characters literally created by Ludosity, they'd know everything about every character. NASB being the way it is shouldn't be a surprise if you know Ludo, NASB not being MORE of the way it is would be the surprise
View attachment 396467

I'm going to try and be chill about this, but your entire post that you're... advertising? here is full of holes.

Duck Hunt represented exclusively by the duck would just confuse people; not to mention it's moveset potential is even more lacking than the dog's; most people seeing it would shrug confusedly, likely not even knowing who the character is; seeing as the Duck's design is just... a cartoony duck. The dog had long been a staple of 80s' kids childhoods, and remained an iconic pick through cultural osmosis.

You're seriously trying to argue that Pikachu shouldn't have been the first pick for Pokemon? Even though he was the partner Pokemon for Ash in the middle of Pokemania? Even back then, you may not recognize most of Pokemon, but you knew Pikachu. Of course he's going to be the first pick and arguing otherwise are ramblings of a fool.

Donkey Kong being represented by DK Jr. may have happened in Mario Kart (and it was weird there too) but you really think that the character the series was named after wasn't going to be it's pick, as the series continued to dwindle in sales? DKC1 is the best selling game in the franchise and the third best selling SNES game.

Even then, you're talking about Smash 64; where they already had two obscure picks and a joke pick; every other character needed to be a winner, especially ones in the base lineup.

Isabelle I can at least kind of understand; she's the series mascot now; but the important thing here is - she wasn't when Animal Crossing first got playable rep. In fact, New Leaf hadn't even come out when SSB4 was being worked on, so there was no way to gauge her popularity, and Sakurai might not have even known she existed.

Then there's the Squid Sisters, who have never been canonically shown fighting; so we don't know what kind of weapons they use outside of occassional dialogue - which might not have even started until 2, now that I think about it - and we already had a two-in-one fighter with the Icies. There was no need to include a second one. When and if Splatoon gets a second rep, absolutely they're on the table, but Inkling solo is a much better way to utilize the vast array of weapons Splatoon has without a tacked on gimmick.

Slap City is an awful comparison. It can get away with it's roster for two reasons:
(1.) It's an indie dev team working on it as a passion project, and
(2.) Nobody cares about the characters in it even close to as strongly as Nickelodeon or Nintendo icons.
Comparing it to NASB or Smash is comparing apples to baseballs.

You have got to stop calling everyone who disagrees with you an echo chamber, it makes you sound extremely pompous - wannabe sigma male "escape the Matrix" kinda stuff. We know your opinion on rosters, but let's be real here: Smash is designed to appeal to a wide market. They can't afford to be niche with their picks anymore outside of, if we're lucky, one retro pick per game. Smash and NASB's roster selection criteria are different, but let's not pretend that some of those choices directly contributed to lost sales. Plenty of people said "I'll buy when all the Turtles are in." Plenty of people lost interest when CatDog was axed and don't just want a substitute moveset or another character from that show.

People get mad when their favorites are "replaced" by someone different. Notice how people hate Soul Calibur V's newcomers - especially Natsu over Taki? Or how people got upset when MvCI's devs said "characters are just functions; you don't like Magneto, you like his eight way airdash." Look how despite being canonically dead AND having characters designed to take over their roles, Bison and Heihachi both came back in SF6 and Tekken 8 respectively.

That's just not true for the vast majority of people. Getting attached to characters we like is completely natural and normal, and when a roster doesn't live up to expectations, people will be upset and choose not to spend their hard earned money if they don't like the lineup. It's a delicate balance, and just because you personally hate "hype culture" does not mean that it doesn't have good effects. More people buying a game you love is never a bad thing, and choosing to go for the hype choices is an efficient, easy, and profitable way for fighting game devs to get eyes on their game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Or how people got upset when MvCI's devs said "characters are just functions

I think you're talking to a brick wall on that front, remember, WWW insists that characters are just functions...despite also being insistent on characters that clearly aren't chosen by him for the gameplay functions they'd provide.

 

[LimeTH]

Well, by pure coincidence - Lincolnposting came back the exact same day I posted this. Just swap out some names for Nick characters and bam, mostly applicable.


Also, do you guys legitimately think Rocksteady is this obscure bit player? Even before NASB discourse force-fed me every bit of TMNT trivia you could imagine through cultural osmosis, I knew Bebop and Rocksteady not only as core TMNT imagery, but outright core 1980s cartoon imagery. That's a weird thing, a lot of platfighter fans really don't know anything about the 80s... Duck Hunt is a meme pick, Beetlejuice and Gizmo are more obscure than Samurai Jack... insane.

Also gonna repost this graphic I made a while back and have used a few times - keep in mind these are characters literally created by Ludosity, they'd know everything about every character. NASB being the way it is shouldn't be a surprise if you know Ludo, NASB not being MORE of the way it is would be the surprise
View attachment 396467

The discourse around Hugh definitely gave me this vibe of “only the main character matters” because if you got all your information about Hugh from those discussions you’d assume he’s a one-off bit character and not one of the main characters with several spotlight episodes and the most prominent adult character in the show.

 

[Ze Diglett]

The discourse around Hugh definitely gave me this vibe of “only the main character matters” because if you got all your information about Hugh from those discussions you’d assume he’s a one-off bit character and not one of the main characters with several spotlight episodes and the most prominent adult character in the show.

You have no idea how often I've read the take verbatim that Hugh is a "Reddit meme pick," as if he's not actually a character in a TV show. I swear some people's exposure to Nickelodeon is ONLY through social media.

 

[Opossum]

Nigel Thornberry Hugh Neutron

Getting downplayed to an extreme extent by people who probably never even watched the original shows.

 

[LimeTH]

Characters are the most important thing in a crossover. You’re literally there to see Steven Universe fight Jason Vorhees. To say otherwise is ridiculous. By nature of being a crossover, the characters are what matters. They didn’t come up with a moveset and decide to slap Squidward onto it. They took the character of Squidward and built a moveset around him. If characters were only functions, Squidward would be doing things he’d never do, and no one would be happy with that because it isn’t true to the character.

But there is absolutely a stigma of “if I don’t care about this character then they don’t deserve to be here” that makes most potential rosters sound very basic and cookie cutter. You NEED wacky picks like Gertie and Hugh to keep things interesting. That unpredictability is part of the fun. If it were only main characters and nothing else, there’d be no surprises and no unorthodox movesets we’d have never gotten otherwise.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Nigel Thornberry Hugh Neutron

Getting downplayed to an extreme extent by people who probably never even watched the original shows.

Also funny meme dads.


....that isn't meant to be an insult.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

You’re literally there to see Steven Universe fight Jason Vorhees. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

I'm ridiculous

You have no idea how often I've read the take verbatim that Hugh is a "Reddit meme pick," as if he's not actually a character in a TV show. I swear some people's exposure to Nickelodeon is ONLY through social media.

Reminds me of a post from the profile posts a while back - "Meme Fighting Game fans mad at at the addition of Skibidi Toilet - the only justification they can come up with is because he's a "meme pick""

Anyway, I'd say my true thoughts on CAF is... nuanced. I think functions are paramount, they trump everything else, but they're still not the only factor in roster selection, but a lot of that is something I think is kinda adjacent to functions - "cool factor", as in "would it be cool to fight as this character"? What interesting moves do they bring visually, even if they'd functionally be th esame old? Of course, my MWs are typically based in my opinions on the source material first and foremost, anybody can tell that from looking at any of my wishlists, but at the same time I can recognise when a character wouldn't work out, or I like a character but they just aren't an interesting fighter, (Can I get a "Woah!"?) and I would have a somewhat different mentality when put in charge of a larger roster. CAF is just a catchy, provokative catchphrase I moreso just use to represent as a whole the fact that characters don't truly matter in the grand scheme of things, they don't effect the quality of the product once all is said and done, and if anything it applies most to movesets, I don't want Min Min throwing her arms everywhere even if that's the point of her source material, and I don't want to lose the cool slow but heavy Ganondorf even if it's not true to the source. Just because I think functions are the most important part doesn't mean I can't percieve the rest of the game and form an opinion on it. You guys have opinions on game mechanics, right?

 

[LimeTH]

I'm ridiculous

Reminds me of a post from the profile posts a while back - "Meme Fighting Game fans mad at at the addition of Skibidi Toilet - the only justification they can come up with is because he's a "meme pick""

You’re kinda contradicting yourself here. You don’t care about the characters but you think people are being unreasonable about what characters they consider to be important or not?

Which is it? Do the characters matter or not?

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

You’re kinda contradicting yourself here. You don’t care about the characters but you think people are being unreasonable about what characters they consider to be important or not?

Which is it? Do the characters matter or not?

Read the post edit I did while you were typing that, I go a bit in depth on my true opinions on CAF

 

[MBRedboy31]

Personally, I pick who I want to play both based on the character’s playstyle and on their design/animations/personality as seen in the game, not necessarily based on how they are in source material. (I do tend to gravitate to somewhat niche and less played characters, though.)

A bunch of the characters I play often in Multiversus (Cake, Garnet, Rick, ect.) I’ve never watched the source material of. In Smash, I’ve never played ROB’s source material either (although arguably ROB in Smash debuted in Brawl‘s SSE and I have played that.)

So, seeing people value characters only on source material and not on anything in the game itself is frustrating to me.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

The discourse around Hugh definitely gave me this vibe of “only the main character matters” because if you got all your information about Hugh from those discussions you’d assume he’s a one-off bit character and not one of the main characters with several spotlight episodes and the most prominent adult character in the show.

I love Hugh Neutron, he's one of the best characters on the damn show! Unlike a lot of these people, I grew up with the show, I saw every episode, and I adore the characters. But I wanted to see him ALONGSIDE Jimmy, not INSTEAD of him. There's also the fact that his content in NASB1 really only reps himself, not Jimmy Neutron as a whole, so even if one argues "he's good enough" it still represents the show poorly. And remember, his inclusion was fueled by prerelease meme culture, regardless of his significance on the actual show. All characters matter, but mains really should not be snubbed either. Like I said, I get (even if I don't agree with) the frustration that there big Smash 3rd party DLC franchises will only ever get their main character repped, but these are first party Nick franchises that absolutely WILL get more reps.

Like, for Nigel over Eliza I can sorta understand, as someone who actually watched the show, he always got a major plot every episode alongside his daughter, and the two are absolutely the faces of the show.

I really hate the fact that caring anout these characters is a point of mockery and derision, thank you guys for reminding me why I left.

Also, on a side note, if we can't have Timmy Turner, then a Cosmo/Wanda duo would be the next best thing (and as part of a bizzare theory, I believe its why cosmo was picked for their Blue Bunny gumball eyes ice cream bar instead of Timmy). I like Hazel, she's a good character with a lot of potential and a well-recieved sequel, but she's been around for less than a year and hasn't built up the legacy that Timmy has (thus she'd feel like a hollow substitute rather than an icon in her own right). I hope she gets more to do, the original show built up an epic legacy (I was there for all of those events - the movies, the music, the show was on fire at the time and it was magical!), so hopefully they'll repeat that success, but as of right now Cosmo and Wanda would be the better play if we can't have Timmy.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Characters are the most important thing in a crossover. You’re literally there to see Steven Universe fight Jason Vorhees. To say otherwise is ridiculous. By nature of being a crossover, the characters are what matters. They didn’t come up with a moveset and decide to slap Squidward onto it. They took the character of Squidward and built a moveset around him. If characters were only functions, Squidward would be doing things he’d never do, and no one would be happy with that because it isn’t true to the character.

But there is absolutely a stigma of “if I don’t care about this character then they don’t deserve to be here” that makes most potential rosters sound very basic and cookie cutter. You NEED wacky picks like Gertie and Hugh to keep things interesting. That unpredictability is part of the fun. If it were only main characters and nothing else, there’d be no surprises and no unorthodox movesets we’d have never gotten otherwise.

I will openly admit I definitely was way more annoyed about Hugh than I should have been, but I do think what Drifloon said earlier has merit: I wanted Jimmy first. After that, any secondary character would've been fine as the second rep; I didn't what him instead of Jimmy and giving one of their DLC choices to a meme pick after people had already written off the game only served to legitimize people's thoughts that the game wasn't worth playing. I agree that picks like Gertie and Hugh are absolutely needed and welcome but there are some facts I think you gotta have first and, like Jimmy, one of those is all four TMNT.

I also think Nigel had something to do with my negativity towards Hugh; we already had a meme dad with a meme moveset, so I didn't really see the need to have a second one, and unlike Hugh, Nigel absolutely is the most standout character from his show from a visual design and character standpoint. Hugh is funny, but more in the "pops up to say an anecdote" kind of funny in a lot of his appearances.

Given like... another year of development I absolutely could see a NASB2 that brought back Hugh, Mikey and Leo, Sandy, Toph, CatDog, and Oblina, alongside another handful of newcomers. Sad it's not the world we live in.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Characters are the most important thing in a crossover. You’re literally there to see Steven Universe fight Jason Vorhees. To say otherwise is ridiculous. By nature of being a crossover, the characters are what matters. They didn’t come up with a moveset and decide to slap Squidward onto it. They took the character of Squidward and built a moveset around him. If characters were only functions, Squidward would be doing things he’d never do, and no one would be happy with that because it isn’t true to the character.

But there is absolutely a stigma of “if I don’t care about this character then they don’t deserve to be here” that makes most potential rosters sound very basic and cookie cutter. You NEED wacky picks like Gertie and Hugh to keep things interesting. That unpredictability is part of the fun. If it were only main characters and nothing else, there’d be no surprises and no unorthodox movesets we’d have never gotten otherwise.

But the wacky picks need to be put in ALONGSIDE the obvious main stuff, not at the expense of them. There's a reason Smash gets away with so much nonsense. They didn't add Jigglypuff over Pikachu, they didn't add Piranha Plant over Peach or Bowser. And even in cases, prioritizing the side over a lead can still work if they're prominent enough and aren't too often (Min Min over Spring Man, Pythra over Rex, etc)

Helga over Arnold was perfectly fine for many. Having Rocksteady over the other Turtles and Shredder himself or Hugh over Jimmy Neutron goes too far into being different for the sake of being different.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

characters don't truly matter to me in the grand scheme of things

Corrected it for you.

This is a very important distinction. Characters don't matter to you. For the overwhelming majority of people, they absolutely do. If there's a character that plays exactly like Albert Wesker, looks similar to Wesker, but doesn't have his voice or characterization, then Wesker fans won't be happy. It's that simple, and this universally applies to every pre-established character.

Even in a game with all original characters, those characters still need to have striking visual designs and personality quirks. That's what makes them characters, and not just functions.

 

[RileyXY1]

But the wacky picks need to be put in ALONGSIDE the obvious main stuff, not at the expense of them. There's a reason Smash gets away with so much nonsense. They didn't add Jigglypuff over Pikachu, they didn't add Piranha Plant over Peach or Bowser. And even in cases, prioritizing the side over a lead can still work if they're prominent enough and aren't too often (Min Min over Spring Man, Pythra over Rex, etc)

Helga over Arnold was perfectly fine for many. Having Rocksteady over the other Turtles and Shredder himself or Hugh over Jimmy Neutron goes too far into being different for the sake of being different.

Same goes for Lucy over Lincoln rather than alongside him like in NASB1.

 

[Guynamednelson]

If there's a character that plays exactly like Albert Wesker, looks similar to Wesker, but doesn't have his voice or characterization, then Wesker fans won't be happy. It's that simple, and this universally applies to every pre-established character

It even applies to the person who gave us "characters are just functions". MvCI still has Nathan Spencer, one of Combofiend's favorite MvC3 characters, rather than having someone else be the "stretchy arm" function like Nero or Dhalsim or, licensing issues aside, Mr. Fantastic.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Corrected it for you.

Uhh, you know that was kinda already implied, right? Just by the nature of being... you know, basically any statement related to video games in a non-moral context.

I have no active stake in if NASB, or even the mainstream platfighter genre, lives or dies - I'd prefer it if they lived, but I'm not interested in what I consider greater good sacrifices either. "Oh, I'm not gonna play this because there's only half the Ninja Turtles" I'm not a stockholder, why should I care? I recieve nothing from the game selling or even being recieved well, especially as someone who considers a 30 character roster acceptable if not too big as is. There'll always be platform fighters, big names or small names; there'll always be someone out there who wants to play any given game; and both the NASB games we have will always be there. If I want more NASB, I can just... play more NASB.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Uhh, you know that was kinda already implied, right? Just by the nature of being... you know, basically any statement related to video games in a non-moral context.

I have no active stake in if NASB, or even the mainstream platfighter genre, lives or dies - I'd prefer it if they lived, but I'm not interested in what I consider greater good sacrifices either. "Oh, I'm not gonna play this because there's only half the Ninja Turtles" I'm not a stockholder, why should I care? I recieve nothing from the game selling or even being recieved well, especially as someone who considers a 30 character roster acceptable if not too big as is. There'll always be platform fighters, big names or small names; there'll always be someone out there who wants to play any given game; and both the NASB games we have will always be there. If I want more NASB, I can just... play more NASB.

Except it wasn't implied. You said "characters don't matter in the grand scheme of things." Grand scheme implies you are referring to a large collective, not yourself.

What does your second paragraph have to do with anything we're talking about? "I'm not a shareholder" like shareholders are the only people who want to see all four turtles? You don't have to care, but other people do care, and its no more or less valid than your opinion. Again, air of pompousness.

 

[Guynamednelson]

characters don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Which, if they really didn't, you yourself wouldn't care as much as you do about who gets into Smash and who people want for both it and NASB.

If you care about any quality that has nothing to do with gameplay, you've lost your "characters are just functions" privileges. Because it's in the name-characters are JUST functions. If they are, then it doesn't matter that Smash is acknowledging people other than you exist with its character choices.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Which, if they really didn't, you yourself wouldn't care as much as you do about who gets into Smash and who people want for both it and NASB.

If you care about any quality that has nothing to do with gameplay, you've lost your "characters are just functions" privileges. Because it's in the name-characters are JUST functions. If they are, then it doesn't matter that Smash is acknowledging people other than you exist with its character choices.

Didn't Wario just explain that his opinions are literally more nuanced than the "characters are just functions" line? What even are you getting at here?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Didn't Wario just explain that his opinions are literally more nuanced than the "characters are just functions" line?

Then why even say things that suggest otherwise?

 

[Kirbeh]

"It's been a while since I checked on the NASB thread, let's see how- oh nvm."

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Nigel Thornberry Hugh Neutron

Getting downplayed to an extreme extent by people who probably never even watched the original shows.

I loved both ****ing shows as a kid,, saw every episode multiple times and had Nickelodeon on constantly. I've seen these shows probably more than any of you have, let along most of the community.

Anyway, looks like we're getting more and more Nickelodeon Sonic content. His chances as a guest fighter are still slim but getting more and more possible.

Loading…

x.com

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I loved both ****ing shows as a kid,, saw every episode multiple times and had Nickelodeon on constantly. I've seen these shows probably more than any of you have, let along most of the community.

Surely that's an advantage in Nigel and Hugh's court though, right? That they're still endearing when taken in a vacuum without context, that's a sign of a great toon character, at least for a TV show. Not that the same doesn't apply, possibly even more strongly, to Jimmy or even Eliza (I love the latter's character design but haven't seen the show) but if people who haven't seen JN and TWT are all-in on Hugh and Nigel, that's good right? People are enjoying content from the show, connecting with the characters, and sharing it around, on average that's a net positive. Speaking as a die-hard Rocko fan, if one day Heffer or Filburt inexplicably became a meme and it resulted in them being prioritised by Nickelodeon in marketing/crossovers, I'd be really happy! That's the show getting positive attention and being enjoyed! I'd certainly prefer Ed Bighead getting crucified with the text "THE BIBLE APP IS FREE" to the clickbait Buzzfeed sensationalism that surrounds Rocko nowadays.

 

[fogbadge]

“Clickbait buzzfeed sensationalism that surrounds rocko” is not a phrase I anticipated reading

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

So uuhhh... NASB got a triple digit playercount again!

Apparently this has actually been a bit of an upwards trend for NASB1. It's had 100 digit peaks 3 days in a row. Doesn't really matter whatosever, but a little cathardic after all that dumb playercount and "NASB2 renders NASB1 irrelevant" discourse.

 

[RileyXY1]

So uuhhh... NASB got a triple digit playercount again!
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Apparently this has actually been a bit of an upwards trend for NASB1. It's had 100 digit peaks 3 days in a row. Doesn't really matter whatosever, but a little cathardic after all that dumb playercount and "NASB2 renders NASB1 irrelevant" discourse.

Yeah. This is the very first time since NASB2's launch that I've seen more people play the first game than the second. Currently 23 people are playing the first game while just 9 people are playing the second. Although NASB1 still has almost 10 times the peak playercount as the second game.

 

[ivanlerma]

i still like NASB 2 for working in the story mode and giving some more intention to effort & working in a good hub world plus levels(minus the part were you go back to the beginning after all lives are gone).

 

[Borskaboska]

I played NASB2 for the first time recently. I only did a couple matches for like 30 minutes, so I dont have that informed of an opinion, but my initial opinions are:
1. the physics feel pretty bad.
2. the recoveries are not generous at all and i've been spoiled by smash bros' ledge snapping too much. I do not intent to change my expectations.
3. I had issues getting my controllers to work on steam and had to fiddle with it for like 10 minutes. That's not the games fault but still it annoyed me.
4. I think showing DLC characters on the character select that I haven't bought is a little distasteful.
5. The hud and UI gives a very mobile-game feel. I think any graphic that moves up and down in a perfect sine wave instantly feels mobile esque.

 

[Borskaboska]

I played NASB2 for the first time recently. I only did a couple matches for like 30 minutes, so I dont have that informed of an opinion, but my initial opinions are:
1. the physics feel pretty bad.
2. the recoveries are not generous at all and i've been spoiled by smash bros' ledge snapping too much. I do not intent to change my expectations.
3. I had issues getting my controllers to work on steam and had to fiddle with it for like 10 minutes. That's not the games fault but still it annoyed me.
4. I think showing DLC characters on the character select that I haven't bought is a little distasteful.
5. The hud and UI gives a very mobile-game feel. I think any graphic that moves up and down in a perfect sine wave instantly feels mobile esque.

6. The name is really bad. I think calling your crossover game "allstars" is generic and a little pleading. Like, you cant call it "All Stars" when you got grandma getie here.
I adamantly feel putting the genre of your game in the title shows a lack of confidence in your game to speak for itself. Street Fighter is the only one that gets to do that because they got grandfathered in, but I swear I dont have any patience for any more fighting games that have the word Fighter, Brawl, Battle, or any variation thereof in their name.
Yes, this applies to Final Fantasy Tactics. They called a game "Let Us Cling Together" so I KNOW they had some good ideas knocking around in there.

 

[Ze Diglett]

6. The name is really bad. I think calling your crossover game "allstars" is generic and a little pleading. Like, you cant call it "All Stars" when you got grandma getie here.
I adamantly feel putting the genre of your game in the title shows a lack of confidence in your game to speak for itself. Street Fighter is the only one that gets to do that because they got grandfathered in, but I swear I dont have any patience for any more fighting games that have the word Fighter, Brawl, Battle, or any variation thereof in their name.
Yes, this applies to Final Fantasy Tactics. They called a game "Let Us Cling Together" so I KNOW they had some good ideas knocking around in there.

I agree that putting "All-Stars" in the title of your game is corny as hell, but I can't agree that a game has to earn it. Like it or not, the term "All-Stars" has only ever been a cheap marketing gimmick, so I don't think it really matters if the product in question has a Gertie or not. They're just trying to upsell you either way.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

6. The name is really bad. I think calling your crossover game "allstars" is generic and a little pleading. Like, you cant call it "All Stars" when you got grandma getie here.
I adamantly feel putting the genre of your game in the title shows a lack of confidence in your game to speak for itself. Street Fighter is the only one that gets to do that because they got grandfathered in, but I swear I dont have any patience for any more fighting games that have the word Fighter, Brawl, Battle, or any variation thereof in their name.
Yes, this applies to Final Fantasy Tactics. They called a game "Let Us Cling Together" so I KNOW they had some good ideas knocking around in there.

For some context, since I know you're new to NASB: the devs stated back during NASB1's pre-launch that the name was basically forced upon them. Not that that justifies the name (though the roster mentality doesn't need justifying), but eh, tis what tis.

 

[Borskaboska]

For some context, since I know you're new to NASB: the devs stated back during NASB1's pre-launch that the name was basically forced upon them. Not that that justifies the name (though the roster mentality doesn't need justifying), but eh, tis what tis.

I didn't know that, yeah "All Stars Brawl" does sound like the the kind of name that a marketing department would come up with, sucks that they had no choice in the matter.
I just really hate crossovers with "all stars" in the name. There's play station all stars, sega all stars, it feels very first draft and i think the roster's 'star-ness' should speak for itself.

 

[Kirbeh]

6. The name is really bad. I think calling your crossover game "allstars" is generic and a little pleading. Like, you cant call it "All Stars" when you got grandma getie here.
I adamantly feel putting the genre of your game in the title shows a lack of confidence in your game to speak for itself. Street Fighter is the only one that gets to do that because they got grandfathered in, but I swear I dont have any patience for any more fighting games that have the word Fighter, Brawl, Battle, or any variation thereof in their name.
Yes, this applies to Final Fantasy Tactics. They called a game "Let Us Cling Together" so I KNOW they had some good ideas knocking around in there.

I can agree with All-Star being a tad overdone but I have to disagree with the second half. It's not just a fighting game thing after all, but a naming convention across multiple genres.

Having some sort of descriptor in the title isn't necessarily a bad thing. It helps to tell you what the game is about when you're going in with zero knowledge.

They're not the most creative names a lot of the time but what else would you call Mario Party or Mario Kart for example? Or to use your own example of Street Fighter, what's a good alternative? No matter what, you're going to allude to fighting somehow. World Warrior is the most appropriate alternative that comes to mind for me at least. That still doesn't pass your criteria though.

Neither does Tactics Ogre for that matter. Let Us Cling Together is the subtitle. Nor does it's series: Ogre Battle.

It's a tactical/strategy RPG with tactics in the name. Triangle Stategy has strategy in the name. Final Fantasy is a fantasy RPG with fantasy in the name.

I think you get the idea by now, but descriptors don't make a name bad, it's about how it's used and in some cases simply the perception of overuse due to repeated exposure.