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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Oracle Link

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Welp im feeling empty inside!
So perhaps i should ask for flowey?!
Especially if they make reloads his recovery because thats so fun to use!
(i used those in rivals of aether!)
 

Garteam

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If any of the DLC third parties return, it's going to be Joker and Terry. Their inclusions in Ultimate went over incredibly well, Nintendo and Sakurai both seem to continue to be on good terms with both Atlus and SNK, Atlus and SNK are pretty liberal in licensing their IPs, and both Persona and Fatal Fury got a massive boost in awareness from being in Smash. It's not a coincidence that Garou is finally getting a sequel after a 25-year absence but within 5 years of Terry being Smash.

Kazuya is also very safe. Both Sakurai and Harada seem to like having Tekken be in Smash. Sakurai effectively spent a decade between Heihachi's consideration for Smash for Wii U/3DS and Kazuya's inclusion trying to make the concept work. Harada also allowed the Heihachi Mii Costume and Namco Roulette inclusions before allowing Kazuya in. So long as they can find some way to make him balanced and workable, Kaz isn't going anywhere.

Both Banjo and Steve are slightly more iffy due to the language barrier, Microsoft being an unknown for the base game, and Steve's general complexity. However, Minecraft is the biggest game in the world and getting Banjo and Kazooie into Smash was the culmination of basically two decades worth of grassroots support. Plus, Phil Spencer's Xbox strategy is all about IP leveraging and breaking Xbox into other ecosystems, with Smash being in line with these goals.

Hero, Sephiroth, and Sora are total question marks. I could see all three being in the game. I could see all three not being in the game. It really depends on how licensing goes but I do think Sakurai and Nintendo will put forth a reasonable effort to get all three in the base game.
 

Laniv

Smash Champion
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The heck with this, I'll do one myself. Warning: High amounts of optimism/blind faith ahead.

smash likelihood.png


Mainstays: Self-explanatory. These characters are the ones I have the most faith in returning. Yes that includes Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, and Palutena

Very Likely to Stay: Characters I have only slightly less faith in returning. A lot of these are characters I would put in the tier above (ZSS, Sheik, both Wii Fit and Pokémon Trainers, Greninja, every third party), but due to a myriad of factors, are just kept out.

Easy-Bake Clone Zone: Popular characters that take half the work of a unique character? Sign me up!

50/50: This is where things start to get a little hairy. Wolf is the ones who could go either way, with Doc, Roy, and Lucas all having the thinnest of advantages over him. Mostly because of those four, Wolf was the only one that didn't come back for Smash 4. Incineroar, meanwhile... it does fall victim to bring the most recent character, which in Smash speculation means they're first on the chopping block. The third parties are a toss-up, but I will say they'd at least try to get Sora back.

why did I put Kazuya there. Pretend he's next to Steve

Hoo boy: Ooh, it's not looking good for these guys. Young Link feels like he's gonna be tossed aside in favor of Toon Link, Corrin feels like they'll be tossed aside in favor of Byleth or whoever is the most recent FE character (as an aside, it ain't gonna be Alear), and Piranha Plant... well, for all we know, it might get replaced by another Mario enemy, like Hammer Bro. or something.

Miis: who knows lol

I am open to questions
 

Diddy Kong

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do you guys think a character thats as big as iron giant in multiversus would work in official smash game?
Yes. I'd love it if they scaled up the bigger characters and sized down the smaller characters. I always found it somewhat strange that in most Smash games, Mario and Pikachu are roughly the same size. There's ways to work around this.

Also it would help make Ridley especially feel more like Ridley. It would scale down DK more in comparison to his fellow heavy weights, thus giving him less problems and restrictions, and would probably allow for heavy weights to be a little more balanced as super armor and weight has to be buffed, as well as their range. Ganondorf and Charizard also would escape certain ultra heavy weight restrictions as lack of speed, as they, like DK, wouldn't need to be sized up either. Thus allowing different archetypes for DK, Ganondorf and Charizard than just "heavy" and be more unique.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Kazuya is also very safe. Both Sakurai and Harada seem to like having Tekken be in Smash. Sakurai effectively spent a decade between Heihachi's consideration for Smash for Wii U/3DS and Kazuya's inclusion trying to make the concept work. Harada also allowed the Heihachi Mii Costume and Namco Roulette inclusions before allowing Kazuya in. So long as they can find some way to make him balanced and workable, Kaz isn't going anywhere.
Oh definitely agree on this one.

They spent way too much time trying to figure out how to make "Smash X Tekken" work to just cut Kazuya from the series after one game, i think he's safe.
 
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ninjahmos

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Y'know, this is making me wonder...

Exactly how many third-party companies have Nintendo partnered with over the years? Because I feel like the two third-party developers that Nintendo has worked with the most have to be Bandai Namco and Koei Tecmo.
 
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KingofPhantoms

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Gonna be honest, I don't think we can even get a truly concrete idea of what newcomers are most likely to stay (besides the main stars or mascots of some series like Mario, Link, Pikachu, Kirby, etc) simply because it's too early.

We not only have no information on whether or not the next Smash game is even in development, but we're also coming off the cusp of the first and only game in the series to bring back literally every character that's been playable in a prior game in the series, in addition to adding a massive chunk of newcomers, many of whom are third-parties, over the course of the game's release and the DLC pack updates. We don't know how the next game is going to follow-up or change on that, or if it's going to be more than an enhanced port.

With that, and having limited information on Nintendo's next console, there's really no easy way to determine which characters are most likely to stay and which ones are most likely to be cut, with a few exceptions. We're in the period of speculation where more roster speculation is almost just pure guessing. Keep that in mind when considering both potentially returning characters and potentially cut ones.
 

superprincess

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EDIT: I think you forgot to include the Miis in your tier list.
When it comes to the Miis and the echo fighters, I purposely didn't include them because their chances depend exclusively on outside factors; for the Miis, it's a matter of if the next system has a Mii maker app somewhere. I don't think their merits as unique characters matter that much, they're literally just OCs that have no reason to be cut as long as Mii maker is a thing in Nintendo consoles. So you can imagine, if the next system is revealed and has Mii compatibility, Brawler/Swordfighter/Gunner would be "Guaranteed stay" tier, but if it doesn't, I'd put them in the bottom of "Probably gone" (to account for the small chance that Smash has its own built-in Mii maker).

As for the echoes, they are kinda self explanatory; if the entire echo concept does come back, I expect all of them to return as long as their original also does. If the next game takes the Brawl route and tries to diversify all clones, things get more interesting, but that's a pretty big if. Still, ranking them among the other characters isn't very accurate because their selection process is totally different.
 

CapitaineCrash

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Y'know, this is making me wonder...

Exactly how many third-party companies have Nintendo partnered with over the years? Because I feel like the two third-party developers that Nintendo has worked with the most have to be Bandai Namco and Koei Tecmo.
Just on the Switch genereation aside from Bandai and Koei Tecmo that you mentionned there's:
-Ubisoft (both Mario + Rabbids)
-PlatinumGames (Astral chain)
-Good feel (Yoshi's crafted world and Peach showtime)
-Arc systems (Another code remake)
-Way forward (Advance wars remake)
-Square Enix + ArtePiazza (Mario RPG remake)
-Arika (Tetris 99, Mario bros 35, Endless ocean)
-Tencent/Timi studio (Pokémon Unite)
-Brace yourself games (Cadence of Hyrule)
 

PuzPot1390

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Gonna be honest, I don't think we can even get a truly concrete idea of what newcomers are most likely to stay (besides the main stars or mascots of some series like Mario, Link, Pikachu, Kirby, etc) simply because it's too early.
Agreed. The only newcomers I think are practically guaranteed to return are the first-party newcomers Sakurai says were added specifically due to high fan demand (Ridley, King K Rool etc). I don't think any of the third-party newcomers in Ultimate are safe except for possibly Sora due to being the winner of the Fighter Poll, but then again I could see him being cut simply to reduce the number of legal hoops the team would need to jump through during development.
 

ninjahmos

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If Nobunaga Oda (Samurai Warriors) ever gets into Smash, I'm hoping they use his OG designs and base his moveset off of his moves from SW1-4.

Also, they should not only use music from the Samurai Warriors (and Dynasty Warriors) series, but also the Nobunaga's Ambition series. They should give Nobunaga a remix of Honnoji (SW1) for his reveal trailer (and for the game itself, of course).

I think he (as well as Lu Bu) would make a great villain rep for Smash. In fact, he'd make a great Koei Tecmo rep, even though, compared to Hayabusa, his chances are pretty slim.
 
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kylexv

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Might be an unpopular opinion, but I have zero doubt that Pokemon Trainer (or at the very least, Charizard) will come back. With how much the Pokemon Company shills Charizard constantly, I doubt they'd let Charizard be cut from the next Smash.

As for Pokemon Trainer, I think the switching mechanic will be a big draw for bringing the character back. I honestly think the 3DS' technical limitations was the only thing stopping PT from coming back in Smash 4.
 

Louie G.

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Might be an unpopular opinion, but I have zero doubt that Pokemon Trainer (or at the very least, Charizard) will come back. With how much the Pokemon Company shills Charizard constantly, I doubt they'd let Charizard be cut from the next Smash.

As for Pokemon Trainer, I think the switching mechanic will be a big draw for bringing the character back. I honestly think the 3DS' technical limitations was the only thing stopping PT from coming back in Smash 4.
The Charizard part isn't unpopular, I think most people are on the same page about that. Personally I don't think he's all that crucial mechanically / gameplay wise but he's arguably the most persistently popular Pokemon of all time and there's a reason he stayed in Smash 4.

As for Pokemon Trainer in general - I think you're right that the 3DS was the main / only reason they got snubbed from Smash 4, but I do think it's worth acknowledging how the climate has changed since then. Nearly every other character returned in Smash 4. If we're looking at significant cuts next game, even with how unique or significant Pokemon Trainer is we're still looking at a character who will eat up three valuable "slots" of dev time when it matters the most. Perhaps they'll see PT as worth the extra effort, but when weighing out how to maximize and include as many popular veterans as we can I think it's reasonable for Pokemon Trainer to be sort of a question mark. Particularly if it's framed more like "Squirtle / Ivysaur or Mewtwo / Jigglypuff" or something.

So yeah, they've made it clear that Charizard is by and large the main priority so he's going to stick around no matter what. We'll just have to see which tough decisions they'll have to make when the roster comes further down the wire than it's ever been before.
 

Geno Boost

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Y'know, this is making me wonder...

Exactly how many third-party companies have Nintendo partnered with over the years? Because I feel like the two third-party developers that Nintendo has worked with the most have to be Bandai Namco and Koei Tecmo.
The longest has been Tetris I think all the way back during the NES and still to this day
 

superprincess

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Might be an unpopular opinion, but I have zero doubt that Pokemon Trainer (or at the very least, Charizard) will come back. With how much the Pokemon Company shills Charizard constantly, I doubt they'd let Charizard be cut from the next Smash.

As for Pokemon Trainer, I think the switching mechanic will be a big draw for bringing the character back. I honestly think the 3DS' technical limitations was the only thing stopping PT from coming back in Smash 4.
I couldn't agree more. Even though Pokémon Trainer didn't function that well in Brawl, solo Charizard in Smash 4 felt like such a compromise. It was never the direction the character was supposed to take, and it really showed.

In contrast, the reworked Pokémon Trainer in Ultimate is probably one of the biggest glowups a fighter has ever had. Visually, the Pokémon look extremely faithful and true to their canon selves (unlike Brawl's) and the inclusion of a female trainer is really nice. Mechanically, the Pokémon have all had some of their moves reworked and they just feel fully realized. Their kits gel so well together, it'd be a huge disappointment if we went back to the mediocre solo Charizard again.

Yes, Charizard is super popular, but I think the other two are sold short very often. Squirtle itself is hugely iconic and the Bulbasaur line, albeit not on the level of the other two, is still one of the most recognizable. And I don't think Charizard's popularity (especially within Smash itself) is enough of a reason to sideline the other two.

What makes me feel even more confident they'll return is that Pokémon Trainer's Ultimate incarnation is a super popular character both competitively and casually. Whether it be online or in person, you're bound to run into quite a few PT mains if you play this game semi-often.
 
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Oracle Link

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So, what obscure/joke character you want in the next Smash? I choose Ayumi Tachibana since the games have been remade and localized to the west and Sakurai wanted her in Melee.
I mean im not allowed to mention the character?

So instead Dark matter orb? Does he count as obscure ive only seen disscusions and fan movesets for the dark matter swordsman!
 

Megadoomer

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So, what obscure/joke character you want in the next Smash? I choose Ayumi Tachibana since the games have been remade and localized to the west and Sakurai wanted her in Melee.
Not a joke character, but for an obscure pick, I'd like to see Pious Augustus or Alexandra Roivas from Eternal Darkness.

Mainly for the stage possibilities, but it's also a rare case of Nintendo contributing to the horror genre, and I could see the game's magick system transferring over well.
 

chocolatejr9

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Look, I know it's only because it's Easter and that this means literally nothing, but Sega acknowledged Billy Hatcher for the first time in 13 years:


Look, this game was my childhood, okay? I can't help bringing it up sometimes, even if Smash chances are less than zero.
 
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superprincess

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So, what obscure/joke character you want in the next Smash? I choose Ayumi Tachibana since the games have been remade and localized to the west and Sakurai wanted her in Melee.
I feel like the sole reason people rally behind her is because Sakurai mentioned her once. Similar deal to Geno.

I'm still one of those people who think the Nintendo Labo cardboard person would be a really funny character.
 
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Gorgonzales

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So, what obscure/joke character you want in the next Smash? I choose Ayumi Tachibana since the games have been remade and localized to the west and Sakurai wanted her in Melee.
coulda sworn we had this conversation somewhat recently but I'll throw my hat into the ring anyway. Q*Bert.

1711916837769.png

(This image goes hard feel free to screenshot)

I don't know why, but he feels like a character that's paradoxically well-known and... not, at the same time. Probably because he's appeared in big film projects with lots of eyes on them like Wreck-it-Ralph and Pixels, but he hasn't really done much himself since his arcade game. Regardless, I'm sure he could work in a platform fighter and I'd be interested in seeing Sakurai's take on him. An armless character would be fun to make up moves for.
 
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7NATOR

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So on Pokemon...

So I'm actually someone that that thinks we'll get the Next Smash before we get Generation 10 Pokemon game. I'm also someone that thinks that a Generation 10 Pokemon could work well as DLC.

However I wonder if the Scenario of Smash being used to advertise the Generation 10 Game with a Gen 10 Pokemon on the Base Roster, before the Actual Gen 10 Pokemon game comes out could play out.. I imagine that the Actual Designs for Gen 10 is already in place as of now, and there has been an History of Pokemon Company/Game Freak giving Sakurai early material to work with

I could see this game having Gen 8, Gen 9, and Gen 10 Newcomers in the game. This could be a Similar case to Brawl where Development time was essentially used to Develop 3 Unique Pokemon Characters in Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard for Pokemon Trainer, and that's not even including Lucario in the mix also. However do you guys think this idea is feasible?
 

RileyXY1

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I feel like the sole reason people rally behind her is because Sakurai mentioned her once. Similar deal to Geno.

I'm still one of those people who think the Nintendo Labo cardboard person would be a really funny character.
He straight up planned for her to be playable in Melee, but her obscurity outside of Japan led to her removal.
So on Pokemon...

So I'm actually someone that that thinks we'll get the Next Smash before we get Generation 10 Pokemon game. I'm also someone that thinks that a Generation 10 Pokemon could work well as DLC.

However I wonder if the Scenario of Smash being used to advertise the Generation 10 Game with a Gen 10 Pokemon on the Base Roster, before the Actual Gen 10 Pokemon game comes out could play out.. I imagine that the Actual Designs for Gen 10 is already in place as of now, and there has been an History of Pokemon Company/Game Freak giving Sakurai early material to work with

I could see this game having Gen 8, Gen 9, and Gen 10 Newcomers in the game. This could be a Similar case to Brawl where Development time was essentially used to Develop 3 Unique Pokemon Characters in Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard for Pokemon Trainer, and that's not even including Lucario in the mix also. However do you guys think this idea is feasible?
When it comes to Gen 10, the timing might not work out. There's a possibility that the next Smash game releases in 2025, but Gen 10 doesn't come out until 2026, leading to another Roy situation happening. I don't know if Sakurai would want to rep a game that the public doesn't even know about yet.
 

ninjahmos

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I kinda would like to see Dr. Eggman get into Smash as well. His stage could either be the Death Egg or Doomsday Zone, and they could include his theme music from throughout the Sonic franchise.
 
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fogbadge

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right i may have been taking a break from posting but i've been keeping up with this thread and i can say you've all been consistently completely wrong. only joking. on the topic of joke character i would vote for Ashley Mizuki Robins. as it's the only chance she's got

also GoldenYuiitusin GoldenYuiitusin i would like to complement you on your golemon avatar

He straight up planned for her to be playable in Melee, but her obscurity outside of Japan led to her removal.
that's not quite right. she was considered but she didn't make it to the planning stage. if she were removed there would be left over data in the game's code which there isn't
 

RileyXY1

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right i may have been taking a break from posting but i've been keeping up with this thread and i can say you've all been consistently completely wrong. only joking. on the topic of joke character i would vote for Ashley Mizuki Robins. as it's the only chance she's got

also GoldenYuiitusin GoldenYuiitusin i would like to complement you on your golemon avatar



that's not quite right. she was considered but she didn't make it to the planning stage. if she were removed there would be left over data in the game's code which there isn't
Her trophy was actually a leftover from when she was planned to be playable, as that was supposed to be the trophy you would get by completing Classic Mode as her.
 

superprincess

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When it comes to Gen 10, the timing might not work out. There's a possibility that the next Smash game releases in 2025, but Gen 10 doesn't come out until 2026, leading to another Roy situation happening. I don't know if Sakurai would want to rep a game that the public doesn't even know about yet.
This has no chances of happening. Pokémon rolls out its new gens every 3 years. This has consistently been happening since Gen 5. Which means Gen 10 is most likely coming in late 2025. Smash is probably in very early development right now (optimistically) so it's probably not hitting shelves until 2026. And don't forget, for the past three (four counting 3DS) console cycles, Smash has been a year /year 3 release. And with the next system coming in 2025 presumably, that gives more credence to Smash being 2026.

Idk why people are saying "Roy situation" when this is a clear cut "Greninja" case.

Her trophy was actually a leftover from when she was planned to be playable, as that was supposed to be the trophy you would get by completing Classic Mode as her.
I've never seen Sakurai mention this. Drop a source or you're making stuff up.
 
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RileyXY1

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This has no chances of happening. Pokémon rolls out its new gens every 3 years. Which means Gen 10 is most likely coming in late 2025. Smash is probably in very early development right now (optimistically) so it's probably not hitting shelves until 2026. And don't forget, for the past three (four counting 3DS) console cycles, Smash has been a year /year 3 release. And with the next system coming in 2025 presumably, that gives more credence to Smash being 2026.

Idk why people are saying "Roy situation" when this is a clear cut "Greninja" case.
Some people are thinking that Gen 10 will actually be held off until 2026 because that year just so happens to be the franchise's 30th anniversary.
 

Noipoi

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This has no chances of happening. Pokémon rolls out its new gens every 3 years. This has consistently been happening since Gen 5. Which means Gen 10 is most likely coming in late 2025. Smash is probably in very early development right now (optimistically) so it's probably not hitting shelves until 2026. And don't forget, for the past three (four counting 3DS) console cycles, Smash has been a year /year 3 release. And with the next system coming in 2025 presumably, that gives more credence to Smash being 2026.

Idk why people are saying "Roy situation" when this is a clear cut "Greninja" case.
No chance on Gen 10 in '26 is a bit of an overstatement, don't cha think? Unlikely, perhaps, but absolutely no chance? I could see several reasons for them to hold off on a gen to meet an anniversary year, especially seeing as how similar circumstances have happened before. The big 10th generation on the big 30th anniversary, that's a lotta marketing potential.

And before you write me off entirely, a quick reminder I'm kind of an obsessive superfan who tracks every miniscule movement of this series while you've admitted yourself you have limited knowledge and personal interest in the franchise.

So uhhh y'know, maybe my theories aren't complete poppycock :drshrug:
 

ARandomFruit

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So, what obscure/joke character you want in the next Smash? I choose Ayumi Tachibana since the games have been remade and localized to the west and Sakurai wanted her in Melee.
The first character that pops in my head when I think of a obscure and jokey character I want is the Super Monkey from Bloons. Will it happen? No, but I want it to.
 

Noipoi

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So, what obscure/joke character you want in the next Smash? I choose Ayumi Tachibana since the games have been remade and localized to the west and Sakurai wanted her in Melee.
Maxwell Scribblenauts is pretty obscure but he’d be fun.

No clue how they’d implement typing in Smash though.
 
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smashkirby

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So, what obscure/joke character you want in the next Smash? I choose Ayumi Tachibana since the games have been remade and localized to the west and Sakurai wanted her in Melee.
Lark (or any Pilotwings character for that matter)
A Wave Race character (preferably Ryota Hayami)
A 1080° character (preferably Akari Hayami, Kensuke Kimachi, or Ricky Winterborn)
A Nintendo LABO character
Sakura Samurai
Trax
Monita
A Rhythm Heaven character (preferably Yuka)
Dr. Lobe
Dr. Kawashima
Dr. Wright
Vince
Harry (Teleroboxer)
Icarus (Glory of Heracles)
Frey and Freya
Kyle Hyde
Ashley Mizuki Robbins
Raymond Bryce
A Nintendo Wars character (preferably Andy)
Qbby
Eddy (Fluidity)
Sukapon
Nikki (I guess she's technically in via Miis, but still)
Wonder-Red
A Magical Vacation/Starsign character
Zael
Aeron
Tamagon
Barbara the Bat
Mallo
Prince Sable
A Baiten Kaitos character
An Odama character
A Fossil Fighters character
A Kurikin character
Dillon
Mach Rider
F-Type
Kageshina Kurabe
Excitebiker
Balloon Fighter
Alice
Bubbles
Ayumi Tachibana
DeMille
Kururin
Chibi-Robo
Hakkun
The Marvelous trio (Dion, Max, and Jack)
Sheriff
Starfy
Muddy Mole
Mike Jones
Michael Anderson
Fighter Hayabusa
A sports character (the Volleyball Girl, the Ice Hockey team, etc.)
Ouendan and/or Elite Beat Agents (w/ their female counterparts)
Mr. Stevenson
Takamaru
Isaac
Ray (Custom Robo)
Alexandra Roivas
Jonathan Raimi
Jasmine Callsign (from Jet Impulse)
Hiro and/or Satoru (from Card Hero)
Sato Amatsubo (from Project H.A.C.K.E.R.)
Captain Rainbow
Goku and Chao
Donbe and Hikari
Lip
Saki Amamiya
A Style Savvy character
A Hanafuda character
Mini-Kangaroo (w/ various Nintendo toys from back in the day)
Ando Kensaku
Arcade Bunny
Grace and Savannah (from Tokyo Crash Mobs)
A Pop-Up Pursuit character
Orville (Takt of Magic)
A Cubivore character
Doshin/Jashin
Cupid
Aisya
Diskun
Jill
Tempo
Welt
Warrior Mech Gauss
A Fatal Frame character
Arle Nadja
 
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