Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[NintenRob]

I said because it's true. If someone literally has "hundreds of first party characters" they want in Smash, then they clearly DO NOT CARE who gets in, and will agree with ANYTHING suggested.

That...or they're just really big Pokemon/FE fans.

He didn't say "a character". Or "a few characters". Or even "a bunch of characters". He said "hundreds".

Nobody actually cares about that many characters. It's disingenuous.

Are you serious dude? Are really doubling down on being a flat out prick? Seriously stop being such an ass to everyone who has a different opinion as yourself and stop treating everything you say like it's law. It's not.

I'm tired of your attitude and behaviour here and based on how others have responded to that post, I'm guessing others are too. Behaviour like yours is frankly becoming unacceptable and is not welcome here.




Oh and for the record saying you want "hundreds" of characters does not necessarily mean you want literally hundreds.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Oh and for the record saying you want "hundreds" of characters does not necessarily mean you want literally hundreds.

That is LITERALLY what I said. That someone claiming to want hundreds of characters doesn't actually have hundreds of characters they care about.

If you have a problem with what I was saying...maybe you shouldn't be agreeing with it?

 

[smashkirby]

And if they added these characters they might actually get more attention put into them. Smash Bros can singlehandedly make an obscure franchise into a popular one overnight, as can be seen with Earthbound and Fire Emblem. The decision to add Ness in Smash 64 turned Earthbound from an obscure SNES RPG that bombed in the West to being a cult classic that sold like hotcakes on the Wii U VC, and it's because of Smash that Fire Emblem is the massive franchise it is today, as without Smash Fire Emblem might not ever make it out of Japan. If they add more obscure Nintendo characters they might end up becoming icons in their own right.

Exactly! I really hope Smash Bros. doesn't stop taking advantage of this phenomenon, really. Like, I'm not saying I expect them to go totally nuts with adding every retro/obscure/niche Nintendo character under the sun, but those characters definitely bring a sense of balance to Smash's roster.

Like I've mentioned before, give me Isaac, Ray, Saki, Prince Sable, Chibi-Robo, Lark, Michael Anderson, Mike Jones, Mr. Stevenson, Donbe and Hikari, Goku and Chao (Bonus points if Goku is voiced by Masako Nozawa), Kururin, DeMille, Captain Rainbow, A Style Savvy character, Raymond Bryce, Ashley Mizuki Robbins, Kyle Hyde, the Ouendan and/or Elite Beat Agents (and their female counterparts), a Rhythm Heaven character, Lip, Sukapon, a Fatal Frame character, the Excitebiker, Monita, Welt, Aisya, Dillon, Jill, Barbara the Bat, Andy, a Fossil Fighters character, a Wave Race character, a 1080 character, and many more.

Hey, I'd unironically accept them all with open arms.

Bubbles from Clu Clu Land. I made a moveset for her, actually.

"Bubbles Brings it Around Town" is such a genius tagline for her, like bruh

Read through it just now. It's good! My favorite moves are the edge attack, down B, and especially that Final Smash, it's seriously creative.

I just read your Bubbles moveset, Perkilator ! It's really good! By the way, I just have to ask... is the tagline meant to be a Spongebob reference?

I mean, Bubbles IS a sea creature after all (even though she REALLY doesn't look like any sea creature I'VE ever seen...).

Thanks! And speaking of movesets, I just finished one for Athena Asamiya.

Spoiler: Athena moveset

Wow! Your Athena Asamiya stuff is amazing! Actually, Athena is someone I'd like to see in Smash, and if I'm being totally honest? I've frankly felt like Athena is next-in-line (or at the very least, in STRONG consideration) to be SNK's second playable character.

If I'm being honest, I'm legitimately surprised that I haven't seen more people talk about her as a potential candidate to be the second SNK character to be playable in Smash Bros. (unless I'm just looking in the wrong places...).

Not to say I would be opposed to someone like Nakoruru, Kyo Kusanagi, Rock Howard, the Metal Slug cast, or even Mai Shiranui, but I've always felt like Athena gave off the vibe of someone Sakurai would be looking at especially carefully as a possible SNK character for Smash.

If nothing else, I was even quite surprised to see Athena (among many other SNK characters) NOT be involved in Terry Bogard's reveal trailer. Like, even BEFORE Sakurai explained why Mai didn't have a presence in Smash Ultimate, I had a pretty good idea why she wasn't in it, but Athena? I can't say I was expecting her to be absent from it.

 

[NintenRob]

That is LITERALLY what I said. That someone claiming to want hundreds of characters doesn't actually have hundreds of characters they care about.

If you have a problem with what I was saying...maybe you shouldn't be agreeing with it?

...... Fine. I'll explain why there was an issue with what you were saying.


You can say you want hundreds of characters without literally wanting hundreds of characters.

It's not disingenuous to say you want hundreds of characters without actually wanting literally hundreds of characters

It's just an exaggeration. Exaggerations are fine. I can say I want to eat hundreds of chocolate bars but not actually want to eat literally hundreds of chocolate bars.

It just means I want a lot. And that's fine. You don't need to be snarky towards someone because they say they want hundreds of characters when they just want lots.



Because, yeah. There are a lot of First Party characters I'd like to see.

And if remove any concern of roster limitations or size. I would literally want hundreds of characters. And that's fine.

 

[fogbadge]

Bubbles from Clu Clu Land. I made a moveset for her, actually.

so did i once. a long time ago

I said because it's true. If someone literally has "hundreds of first party characters" they want in Smash, then they clearly DO NOT CARE who gets in, and will agree with ANYTHING suggested.

That...or they're just really big Pokemon/FE fans.

He didn't say "a character". Or "a few characters". Or even "a bunch of characters". He said "hundreds".

Nobody actually cares about that many characters. It's disingenuous.

or they're nintendo fans. i fail to see how it's hard to believe it's possible to care about that many characters, consider the world is full of characters, so many more well beyond hundreds. just cause don't doesn't mean no one can

 

[---]

This argument about niche 1st Parties and popular 3rd Parties has been going on for the past few pages and pretty clearly needs to stop.

We'll review some of the posts that have been and reported, but if the arguments and personal attacks continue, I will not rule out a temporary thread lock to allow for everyone to cool off.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Kururin is another character I've thought about sometimes, I've only played the first game but I really liked it.
I think it would be interesting if for most of his attacks he whirls his wings around (imitating the helicopter's rotors) while also shifting his body in a certain direction (front, back, up, down...), noticeably changing the position of his hurtbox. I think you could kinda translate Kuru Kuru Kururin's gameplay in a fighter this way. Make his shield particularly small so that he's forced to dodge most attacks this way.
No idea what he would do for his specials though.

But yeah, characters like Kururin are fun to think about in the context of Smash but they never really actually get in. Mid-tier series, especially inactive ones, have barely ever gotten characters. I'd say the only ones with decent chances are Isaac to appease fan requests and a Rhythm Heaven character if Sakurai feels like revisiting that idea. Those two in particular feel like they just missed the boat more than anything. I'd put Advance Wars in that camp too, the series was very popular back then, and Astral Chain too if they have plans for a sequel, but past those four... Eeeh.

 

[fogbadge]

Kururin is another character I've thought about sometimes, I've only played the first game but I really liked it.
I think it would be interesting if for most of his attacks he whirls his wings around (imitating the helicopter's rotors) while also shifting his body in a certain direction (front, back, up, down...), noticeably changing the position of his hurtbox. I think you could kinda translate Kuru Kuru Kururin's gameplay in a fighter this way. Make his shield particularly small so that he's forced to dodge most attacks this way.
No idea what he would do for his specials though.

But yeah, characters like Kururin are fun to think about in the context of Smash but they never really actually get in. Mid-tier series, especially inactive ones, have barely ever gotten characters. I'd say the only ones with decent chances are Isaac to appease fan requests and a Rhythm Heaven character if Sakurai feels like revisiting that idea. Those two in particular feel like they just missed the boat more than anything. I'd put Advance Wars in that camp too, the series was very popular back then, and Astral Chain too if they have plans for a sequel, but past those four... Eeeh.

well I I believe in the second game there were several types of heliren with different abilities that could lend themselves to specials

 

[Gengar84]

What does everyone think about the general stage direction in modern Smash games? I personally think Smash 64 and Melee had the formula down pretty perfectly but since then, the stages have gone a bit two far in one of two directions. They’re either way too gimmicky with things like boss battles that really interrupt the flow of battle or they are basically reskinned Battlefields with everything interesting going on in the background. There are definitely some exceptions like Suzaku Castle that capture the old style of stage design but I’d love to see a lot more.

Something I’d love to see is if we get a platformer character, take a section of one of their stages from their games that has an interesting layout but fitting for battle and modernize the design but keep the layout. Alternatively, we could get a brand new layout that just feels like it could have been part of the stage. I might be in the minority on this one but one of my favorite parts of Smash were the fun stage layouts and I feel like that has been lacking recently. They really helped the game stand out and emphasize the playformer aspect of the genre. We already have Omega and Battlefield versions for competitive play so I don’t think that should factor in too much.

 

[fogbadge]

What does everyone think about the general stage direction in modern Smash games? I personally think Smash 64 and Melee had the formula down pretty perfectly but since then, the stages have gone a bit two far in one of two directions. They’re either way too gimmicky with things like boss battles that really interrupt the flow of battle or they are basically reskinned Battlefields with everything interesting going on in the background. There are definitely some exceptions like Suzaku Castle that capture the old style of stage design but I’d love to see a lot more.

Something I’d love to see is if we get a platformer character, take a section of one of their stages from their games that has an interesting layout but fitting for battle and modernize the design but keep the layout. Alternatively, we could get a brand new layout that just feels like it could have been part of the stage. I might be in the minority on this one but one of my favorite parts of Smash were the fun stage layouts and I feel like that has been lacking recently. They really helped the game stand out and emphasize the playformer aspect of the genre. We already have Omega and Battlefield versions for competitive play so I don’t think that should factor in too much.

I think most of the stages I find unplayable are from 4 and some from brawl, so if ultimate is anything to go by they might be toning it down. at least there weren’t any more stage bosses though they missed the chance to adjust them

 

[Gengar84]

I think most of the stages I find unplayable are from 4 and some from brawl, so if ultimate is anything to go by they might be toning it down. at least there weren’t any more stage bosses though they missed the chance to adjust them

Yeah, I think Smash 4 went a bit too far in the gimmicky direction and they overcorrected for that in Ultimate and a lot of the new stages are pretty boring. I think the main offenders are Northern Cave and Hollow Bastion but that seems to be the general direction. Willy’s Castle somehow got the worst of both worlds with a basic Battlefield stage layout that also had an annoying boss interrupt the match constantly. It’s a shame because the visuals and music are great, I just don’t find the stage particularly fun to fight on. Maybe that’s just me though.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, I think Smash 4 went a bit too far in the gimmicky direction and they overcorrected for that in Ultimate and a lot of the new stages are pretty boring. I think the main offenders are Northern Cave and Hollow Bastion but that seems to be the general direction. Willy’s Castle somehow got the worst of both worlds with a basic Battlefield stage layout that also had an annoying boss interrupt the match constantly. It’s a shame because the visuals and music are great, I just don’t find the stage particularly fun to fight on. Maybe that’s just me though.

all hollow bastion needed was to be a tour stage and it would have been perfect. I still play it all the time but that’s as much to do with the music as anything else

 

[Gengar84]

all hollow bastion needed was to be a tour stage and it would have been perfect. I still play it all the time but that’s as much to do with the music as anything else

Yeah, that would definitely help. I do feel like my opinion is in the minority on this issue though. It seems like most people are more concerned with tournament viability than a desire for unique layouts. Just looking at Ultimate’s modding scene, almost all stage mods are reskinned Battlefields. I know it’s possible to make unique layouts through modding because there are a couple of them but they’re very few and far between. Brawl stage mods had much more varied layouts that were a ton of fun to play on.

 

[Oracle Link]

Yeah, that would definitely help. I do feel like my opinion is in the minority on this issue though. It seems like most people are more concerned with tournament viability than a desire for unique layouts. Just looking at Ultimate’s modding scene, almost all stage mods are reskinned Battlefields. I know it’s possible to make unique layouts through modding because there are a couple of them but they’re very few and far between. Brawl stage mods had much more varied layouts that were a ton of fun to play on.

Yeah the whole tournament viability is moot anyways considering that even basic stages get banned for not being boring enough! (slopes for example)
Also considering its the next year im gonna mention THEM Again...

Spoiler: THEM

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, that would definitely help. I do feel like my opinion is in the minority on this issue though. It seems like most people are more concerned with tournament viability than a desire for unique layouts. Just looking at Ultimate’s modding scene, almost all stage mods are reskinned Battlefields. I know it’s possible to make unique layouts through modding because there are a couple of them but they’re very few and far between. Brawl stage mods had much more varied layouts that were a ton of fun to play on.

I don’t get the tournament scene. I mean sure things like stage hazards I get but do people really find the backgrounds distracting? I guess they must do but I wouldn’t have thought it was as problematic as the other stuff

 

[DarthEnderX]

They’re either way too gimmicky with things like boss battles that really interrupt the flow of battle or they are basically reskinned Battlefields with everything interesting going on in the background.

I prefer Bosses to serve as actual Bosses, and not just be stage hazards.

It seems like a side-effect of Smash 4 not having a singleplayer mode with Bosses that we got these in the first place, and why we still have some of them in Ultimate.

 

[BritishGuy54]

What does everyone think about the general stage direction in modern Smash games? I personally think Smash 64 and Melee had the formula down pretty perfectly but since then, the stages have gone a bit two far in one of two directions. They’re either way too gimmicky with things like boss battles that really interrupt the flow of battle or they are basically reskinned Battlefields with everything interesting going on in the background. There are definitely some exceptions like Suzaku Castle that capture the old style of stage design but I’d love to see a lot more.

Something I’d love to see is if we get a platformer character, take a section of one of their stages from their games that has an interesting layout but fitting for battle and modernize the design but keep the layout. Alternatively, we could get a brand new layout that just feels like it could have been part of the stage. I might be in the minority on this one but one of my favorite parts of Smash were the fun stage layouts and I feel like that has been lacking recently. They really helped the game stand out and emphasize the playformer aspect of the genre. We already have Omega and Battlefield versions for competitive play so I don’t think that should factor in too much.

As someone who grew up mainly with Brawl and Wii U, it’s certainly strange going to see 64 and Melee stages be so tame in comparison.

I think both types of stages have their place in Smash. Simple and small, or big and open. I also don’t mind bosses as stage hazards, but there really should be a dedicated toggle to turn them off.

 

[Gengar84]

As someone who grew up mainly with Brawl and Wii U, it’s certainly strange going to see 64 and Melee stages be so tame in comparison.

I think both types of stages have their place in Smash. Simple and small, or big and open. I also don’t mind bosses as stage hazards, but there really should be a dedicated toggle to turn them off.

Yeah, it depends on the boss and stage for me. For example, Metal Face is fine because the stage is big enough that you can easily play around him. Willy’s Castle is a relatively small Battlefield variant so Yellow Devil takes up half the stage. I think if they greatly reduced how often it appeared, it could be a fun diversion but it shows up like 3 or 4 times per battle for me.

 

[Oracle Link]

As a zelda fan that wants to own action figures i have to get the botw 2pack with link and zelda!
Why when its obvious i dont really like botw link?
Because there is NO Other newly available figures!
No Toon Link no Ganondorf NOTHING!

 

[BuckleyTim]

How Ultimate handles competitive stages is kinda baffling to me. You're telling me you saw a grand finals' hype get derailed because it was on a Animal Crossing stage with low-energy music, and then didn't re-use the platform assets you made for the battlefield variations of each stage towards making some kind of "delta" version of each stage so we'd finally be free of having 2 animal crossing stages in the pick list? Instead, we got some hamfisted AC rock remixes to put a bandage on things. Is Smashville really that hard a stage to replicate using the assets we currently have?

Which is to say nothing of how those omega/battlefield versions of each stage aren't really used in tournaments (IIRC, been a while since I kept up with tourney details) due to some of those stages being ones that have copyright-strikeable songs (looking directly at you, Square-Enix and probably also Disney), even if the backgrounds aren't distracting. It feels like this game needed a streamer-friendly mode 10 years ago, and if it's not in the next Smash in some way (which it certainly won't, I'd bet money on that) I'm gonna be surely disappointed.

Edit: this is an aside, but shoutout to the tunes in Smash Ult that could've been better if they didn't go for an WE NEED EPIC FIGHTING MUSIC direction 100% of the time. So I guess Mumbo's Mountain, but there are others surely.

 

[Gengar84]

As a zelda fan that wants to own action figures i have to get the botw 2pack with link and zelda!
Why when its obvious i dont really like botw link?
Because there is NO Other newly available figures!
No Toon Link no Ganondorf NOTHING!

Check out Big Bad Toy Store. They always have pretty interesting figures and it seems like they’re making more and more game characters. The problem is that because a lot of them are seen as collectibles, they’re kind of pricey.

Here’s a Figma for Skyward Sword Link. There are also others for Twilight Princess Link and Zelda among others:

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I both like and dont like how Ultimate handled its stages.

On the one hand i love the background cameos of characters from the game the stage is based on watching the fight play out, it makes the places feel more alive.
On the other hand the layout for most of them feel very samey, i mean, the Square enix stages are mostly the same stage, a floating platform with one or two platforms floating around an important set piece from the game of origin. The world map of Dragon Quest 11, the final dungeon of FF7 and Hollow Bastion from Kingdom hearts.

 

[Gengar84]

I both like and dont like how Ultimate handled its stages.

On the one hand i love the background cameos of characters from the game the stage is based on watching the fight play out, it makes the places feel more alive.
On the other hand the layout for most of them feel very samey, i mean, the Square enix stages are mostly the same stage, a floating platform with one or two platforms floating around an important set piece from the game of origin. The world map of Dragon Quest 11, the final dungeon of FF7 and Hollow Bastion from Kingdom hearts.

I wish they had handled Norther Crater a lot more similarly to how they did Umbral Clock Tower from Smash 4. That was still a relatively simple platform but at least you had other platforms falling around you to play on. If any of you have played Dissidia, I think the stage layout for Northern Crater was great there. Dissidia is a 3D fighter so you couldn’t have really copied it 1-1 but I think the basic idea and platform layouts worked better there.

 

[fogbadge]

How Ultimate handles competitive stages is kinda baffling to me. You're telling me you saw a grand finals' hype get derailed because it was on a Animal Crossing stage with low-energy music, and then didn't re-use the platform assets you made for the battlefield variations of each stage towards making some kind of "delta" version of each stage so we'd finally be free of having 2 animal crossing stages in the pick list? Instead, we got some hamfisted AC rock remixes to put a bandage on things. Is Smashville really that hard a stage to replicate using the assets we currently have?

Which is to say nothing of how those omega/battlefield versions of each stage aren't really used in tournaments (IIRC, been a while since I kept up with tourney details) due to some of those stages being ones that have copyright-strikeable songs (looking directly at you, Square-Enix and probably also Disney), even if the backgrounds aren't distracting. It feels like this game needed a streamer-friendly mode 10 years ago, and if it's not in the next Smash in some way (which it certainly won't, I'd bet money on that) I'm gonna be surely disappointed.

Edit: this is an aside, but shoutout to the tunes in Smash Ult that could've been better if they didn't go for an WE NEED EPIC FIGHTING MUSIC direction 100% of the time. So I guess Mumbo's Mountain, but there are others surely.

I’m sorry what? You all got upset because you’re final battle was on an AC stage and the music wasn’t good enough?

 

[Oracle Link]

Check out Big Bad Toy Store. They always have pretty interesting figures and it seems like they’re making more and more game characters. The problem is that because a lot of them are seen as collectibles, they’re kind of pricey.

Here’s a Figma for Skyward Sword Link. There are also others for Twilight Princess Link and Zelda among others:

View attachment 383455

true i already played with the thought of a figma or nendoroid!
As soon as for example links awekening link gets his first nendoroid ill get it!
Sadly the SS Link figure while cool doesnt come with anything i really want at least the 2 pack has A Zelda!
Although who knows maybe if i still have money after buying the 2 figures and a korok plush im gonna look over afordable Figmas or nendoroids!

 

[BuckleyTim]

I’m sorry what? You all got upset because you’re final battle was on an AC stage and the music wasn’t good enough?

I'm referring to a smash 4 invitational Sakurai attended. He mentioned in a 2018 ultimate pre-release column that after attending it he wanted Smash's arrangements to have more tension in them after that, and gave "The Roost" as an example of what he was referring to.

Sakurai talks Smash Bros. Ultimate music - the process of choosing and including songs

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate director Masahiro Sakurai published a new column in the latest issue of Famitsu. This week, Sakurai talks all about game music, and what the process is like of choosing and including songs. Here’s our full translation: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has around 800 tracks...

nintendoeverything.com

 

[Oracle Link]

I quickly glanced over bbts and its basically the same EXTREME Botw Bias as everywhere else!
The only version of link there i really would love was MC Link and he was sold out!
Over than that its SS and BOTW link for the millionth time!
I dont even get why SS Link getzs so much focus i dont know too many people that think hes the best!
Edit: And statues of the champions but i think they are too expensive for me!

 

[Gengar84]

I quickly glanced over bbts and its basically the same EXTREME Botw Bias as everywhere else!
The only version of link there i really would love was MC Link and he was sold out!
Over than that its SS and BOTW link for the millionth time!
I dont even get why SS Link getzs so much focus i dont know too many people that think hes the best!
Edit: And statues of the champions but i think they are too expensive for me!

I think that’s just because BotW and TotK are the big new games. It seems like the gaming figure trend didn’t really start until around that point. I’m personally holding out for an Ocarina of Time Link and Ganondorf. I love Twilight Princess Zelda but I can justify spending nearly $150 on a figure. My cap for most figures is about $65 but I did spend more on a couple. There’s a really awesome $90 Mega Man X figure with a light up Mega Buster that was just too cool to pass up. I think I have a bit of a problem because I buy more figures than I have room to display lol.

If we do get X as a character in the future, I’d love this design as an alt. I think it was originally made as an April Fool’s joke but was made canon later due to its popularity.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm referring to a smash 4 invitational Sakurai attended. He mentioned in a 2018 ultimate pre-release column that after attending it he wanted Smash's arrangements to have more tension in them after that, and gave "The Roost" as an example of what he was referring to.

Sakurai talks Smash Bros. Ultimate music - the process of choosing and including songs

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate director Masahiro Sakurai published a new column in the latest issue of Famitsu. This week, Sakurai talks all about game music, and what the process is like of choosing and including songs. Here’s our full translation: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has around 800 tracks...

nintendoeverything.com

I think we all know sakurai doesn’t commit everything to memory

 

[Garteam]

There’s a really awesome $90 Mega Man X figure with a light up Mega Buster that was just too cool to pass up. I think I have a bit of a problem because I buy more figures than I have room to display lol.

View attachment 383462

If we do get X as a character in the future, I’d love this design as an alt. I think it was originally made as an April Fool’s joke but was made canon later due to its popularity.

Between his weapon colours, various armours, and his Truforce design, X genuinely has amazing potential for his alts. I suppose that kind of makes sense given the whole "infinite potential" thing

 

[Gengar84]

Between his weapon colours, various armours, and his Truforce design, X genuinely has amazing potential for his alts. I suppose that kind of makes sense given the whole "infinite potential" thing

Totally. Hopefully they bring in his unique wall climbing mechanics into Smash. I always found it a ton of fun to hop up and slide down walls in X and I think k it could be a fun mechanic in Smash.

 

[Will]

I'm referring to a smash 4 invitational Sakurai attended. He mentioned in a 2018 ultimate pre-release column that after attending it he wanted Smash's arrangements to have more tension in them after that, and gave "The Roost" as an example of what he was referring to.

Sakurai talks Smash Bros. Ultimate music - the process of choosing and including songs

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate director Masahiro Sakurai published a new column in the latest issue of Famitsu. This week, Sakurai talks all about game music, and what the process is like of choosing and including songs. Here’s our full translation: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has around 800 tracks...

nintendoeverything.com

Sakurai made these compromises, and the competitive community didn’t know what to do with it. Hazards On VS Hazards Off ruleset was a thing, and then the one DLC stage that has the potential to be legal is brushed off for a “distracting background”.

I’ll never forgive them for banning Bastion.

 

[Louie G.]

shoutout to the tunes in Smash Ult that could've been better if they didn't go for an WE NEED EPIC FIGHTING MUSIC direction 100% of the time

This is one of my big pet peeves. It's not that awful or distracting really, the old variants of some of these songs are still present... Bath Time, Duck Hunt Medley, Gourmet Race / Dream Land off the top of my head. But I think Sakurai has the wrong idea about how to handle this moving forward, because I for one absolutely love the goofy chaotic music or very unfitting peaceful music that sets a unique tone for battle. It's kind of the essence of Smash Bros, these things aren't supposed to fit together but they do and they create sometimes hilarious or strange feeling scenarios. I'm not saying The Roost should be playing during grand finals, but you get what I mean. The aforementioned Smash 4 Bath Time is one of my favorite songs to have play during a fight, lol.

Maybe the most frustrating example of this to me is that they chose to remix Magicant and Fourside a second time over to make them more energetic, when they could have remixed two other Mother songs that are not in the game at all. I dunno, I was looking forward to what they'd pull (especially with Lucas on the roster from the start this time) and they went with two songs we already had and made remixes that I like a little bit less than the originals. It's a bit selfish of me but there are quite literally a couple hundred Mother songs I would have been thrilled to hear a new arrangement for instead.

I miss Ai No Uta, although I know that one is more about who owns the rights.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sakurai made these compromises, and the competitive community didn’t know what to do with it. Hazards On VS Hazards Off ruleset was a thing, and then the one DLC stage that has the potential to be legal is brushed off for a “distracting background”.

It's a dead horse but things would be a lot easier if you could switch between hazards on/off like you could normal/BF/Omega forms.

Honestly I think sometimes it's the competitive scene that thinks "No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination" is supposed to be how competitive Smash is supposed to be played. A lot of stages that are banned in competitive Ultimate are ones that are still legal in Melee/Brawl/4, even with their lack of hazard toggles, and hazardless WarioWare isn't banned in competitive PM.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Maybe the most frustrating example of this to me is that they chose to remix Magicant and Fourside a second time over to make them more energetic, when they could have remixed two other Mother songs that are not in the game at all. I dunno, I was looking forward to what they'd pull especially with Lucas on the roster from the start this time and they went with two songs we already had and made remixes that I like a little bit less. It's a bit selfish of me but there are quite literally a couple hundred Mother songs I would have been thrilled to hear a new arrangement for instead.

Blame Sony Music for not giving Nintendo the rights for the Mother 1+2 songs. Oh, and for the Xenoblade X soundtrack too.

This is one of my big pet peeves. It's not that awful or distracting really, the old variants of some of these songs are still present... Bath Time, Duck Hunt Medley, Gourmet Race / Dream Land off the top of my head. But I think Sakurai has the wrong idea about how to handle this moving forward, because I for one absolutely love the goofy chaotic music or very unfitting peaceful music that sets a unique tone for battle. It's kind of the essence of Smash Bros, these things aren't supposed to fit together but they do and they create sometimes hilarious or strange feeling scenarios. I'm not saying The Roost should be playing during grand finals, but you get what I mean.

I will fall off a cliff this this darn song is included for Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t know if it’s just me because I don’t really follow the competitive scene but it almost seems like a wasted effort trying to cater so much to the competitive community. They’re the reason Battlefield and Omega variants even exist and apparently they don’t even get used in competitive play. I feel like the focus should just be on making fun stages and if the competitive scene doesn’t like it, there’s always vanilla Battlefield. Part of what makes Smash Smash to me is the platforming aspect of the stage layouts. If you remove all that, you might as well just make a traditional fighter. Not saying Smash is at that point yet, just seems to be trending that way.

 

[Louie G.]

Blame Sony Music for not giving Nintendo the rights for the Mother 1+2 songs.

I have to doubt this is true, considering we already have arrangements of songs like Pollyanna and Bein Friends in the game. Maybe they don't have the rights to the vocal arrangements of those tracks, but if this was an issue regarding the greater Mother soundtrack then we'd have a lot less of it in the game as is. Incidentally, Isn't This Such a Utopia is lifted directly from a Mother 3 arrangement album.

On that note, I wish we got an arrangement of this one. Feels like everyone forgets about it because it never got that Smash spotlight that the other two did.

I don’t know if it’s just me because I don’t really follow the competitive scene but it almost seems like a wasted effort trying to cater so much to the competitive community. They’re the reason Battlefield and Omega variants even exist and apparently they don’t even get used in competitive play. I feel like the focus should just be on making fun stages and if the competitive scene doesn’t like it, there’s always vanilla Battlefield. Part of what makes Smash Smash to me is the platforming aspect of the stage layouts. If you remove all that, you might as well just make a traditional fighter. Not saying Smash is at that point yet, just seems to be trending that way.

Disagree, more gameplay options is a good thing and none of the other stage layouts are being sacrificed in the process. I personally do not always like playing on wacky stages and still want to hear all my favorite songs and play in my favorite video game worlds. So I appreciate the option to have simpler stage layouts for stages where I love the aesthetic, but don't love the actual stage. I think Smash should continue catering to its diverse playerbase as it has been doing, by providing as many options as possible so people can play the game however they want.

 

[Perkilator]

Maybe the most frustrating example of this to me is that they chose to remix Magicant and Fourside a second time over to make them more energetic, when they could have remixed two other Mother songs that are not in the game at all.

On the topic of Fourside, I would've preferred Ultimate's remix to be something a bit more jazzy like the 8-Bit Big Band remix.

 

[fogbadge]

I don’t know if it’s just me because I don’t really follow the competitive scene but it almost seems like a wasted effort trying to cater so much to the competitive community. They’re the reason Battlefield and Omega variants even exist and apparently they don’t even get used in competitive play. I feel like the focus should just be on making fun stages and if the competitive scene doesn’t like it, there’s always vanilla Battlefield. Part of what makes Smash Smash to me is the platforming aspect of the stage layouts. If you remove all that, you might as well just make a traditional fighter. Not saying Smash is at that point yet, just seems to be trending that way.

finally someone gets it

 

[Gengar84]

I have to doubt this is true, considering we already have arrangements of songs like Pollyanna and Bein Friends in the game. Maybe they don't have the rights to the vocal arrangements of those tracks, but if this was an issue regarding the greater Mother soundtrack then we'd have a lot less of it in the game as is. Incidentally, Isn't This Such a Utopia is lifted directly from a Mother 3 arrangement album.

On that note, I wish we got an arrangement of this one. Feels like everyone forgets about it because it never got that Smash spotlight that the other two did.

Disagree, more gameplay options is a good thing and none of the other stage layouts are being sacrificed in the process. I personally do not always like playing on wacky stages and still want to hear all my favorite songs and play in my favorite video game worlds. So I appreciate the option to have simpler stage layouts for stages where I love the aesthetic, but don't love the actual stage. I think Smash should continue catering to its diverse playerbase as it has been doing, by providing as many options as possible so people can play the game however they want.

I agree with this in principle. I guess it depends on just how much work it is to create those variant stages. If they’re relatively easy, there’s no reason not to have more options. If they do take a lot of resources, I personally think they’d be better spent elsewhere.