Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

Incidentally, Arvis makes for a pretty decent villain rep as far as FE goes.

I know Arvis is often cited as one of FE's most popular villains but like...

This is some major big fish in a small pond stuff.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Black Knight could use Ike as a base, but that's it. They are too different no matter how you go about it. It's not even the armor(which Meta Ridley shows an armored version can still have the same hurtboxes) in itself, though it probably would look jank either way.

He's a good pick, though. As a clone/semi-clone.

Echoes require both bodyshapes and workable animations. Not just one or the other.

 

[Arcanir]

To give a perspective on the FE villain case, let's look at CYL7. Ignoring Veronica and Edelgard (who won 2 and 4 respectively) the only villains present in the Top 20 characters overall is Black Knight, that's it. If you extend that to the Top 20 gender categories you add Lyon and Reinhardt, but the latter is more a product of his status in FEH then his villainy in Thracia. So, of forty characters, only three villains are present, and of the one that is extremely popular he's still outshined by Ike, Micaiah, and Soren as said before, with Elincia also being in contention.

Villains rarely stand out in FE, for as many complaints as they get, many of the lords tend to be the most popular of their games, if not the most popular. Even if Sakurai was reaching for the most popular characters in their respective games he'd still land at Ike, Marth, Roy, Lucina, Chrom and the like.

 

[Ivander]

Incidentally, Arvis makes for a pretty decent villain rep as far as FE goes.

He's definitely popular among those who've played/watched through Genealogy, but he probably won't reach major popularity until a remake of Genealogy that is released worldwide happens.

 

[Speed Weed]

I know nothing about FE but I do **** with Arvis' design

 

[SPEN18]

Honestly I don't think semiclone BK even really works very well.

There is just too much to change from Ike.

 

[Speed Weed]

I know nothing about FE but I do **** with Arvis' design

That said, even as someone who, again, does not give two ****s about FE, I do think there are a lot of non-fans of the series who have some really weird ideas on how to "fix" the representation

 

[Schnee117]

With Black Knight you have to go in with the intent of making the slowest, heaviest and strongest fighter in the roster to capture his essence properly. In isolation from the actual game that's a really cool idea. However you then need to consider how Smash is a platform fighter and how it also has huge stages like Palutena's Temple and GCO.

All of a sudden he'd be... kinda miserable to play as.

 

[Ivander]

With Black Knight you have to go in with the intent of making the slowest, heaviest and strongest fighter in the roster to capture his essence properly. In isolation from the actual game that's a really cool idea. However you then need to consider how Smash is a platform fighter and how it also has huge stages like Palutena's Temple and GCO.

All of a sudden he'd be... kinda miserable to play as.

I mean, you could give him a gimmick with his Warp Powder similar to Exdeath's Teleport in Dissidia. With how Exdeath is super slow, but uses Teleport to get around the map and make up for being super slow.

 

[Laniv]

The problem is most of the playable characters are much more popular than the villains. The only Fire Emblem villains who've reached some or alot of popularity outside the FE fanbase are the Black Knight from Fire Emblem Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn, Grima from Fire Emblem Awakening(and obviously, they aren't easily playable due to them being 50 times more bigger than Ridley) and:

Spoiler: Three Houses Spoilers

Edelgard in Routes not her own and Rhea in Edelgard's route. And both really overshadow Black Knight and Grima in popularity.

Outside of them, most other villains are nowhere near as popular as them or some of their popularity is mainly within the FE fanbase, like Nergal and Lyon.

I don't really agree. Nine times out of ten the game's protagonist will be leaps and bounds more popular than the same game's villains when it comes to Fire Emblem. Not counting cases like the House Leaders where whoever you don't pick will be antagonistic down the road, or Veronica from Heroes who goes through a redemption arc, Black Knight is the only all-out antagonist who comes close in popularity to the main lords of the series. And even then, within the Tellius games themselves, he'd be competing for the second spot (after Ike) with Soren and Micaiah, who are, respectively, an incredibly popular supporting character and a main Lord.

Fair points. I just feel like the series could use a little more variety than "hero with sword"

I also feel like Black Knight should be in, but that's a somewhat different story

 

[HyperSomari64]

Incidentally, Arvis makes for a pretty decent villain rep as far as FE goes.

Spoiler: XC 1 Spoilers

Isn't Arby's the guy from Xenoblade Chronicles???

 

[MasterCheef]

What's up with the obsession around FE ?

Why not want more characters from XBC3 ?

Ethel , Glimmer , & , Gray , are all exciting & better smash gameplay options

I am assuming we will get Noah & Mio. Because they already having amiibo

 

[DarthEnderX]

That doesn't work.

To bad. That's all you get.

A Ganondorf to Ike's Falcon.

He's a good pick, though. As a clone/semi-clone.

Echoes require both bodyshapes and workable animations. Not just one or the other.

In Ultimate. They won't in Smash 6.

What's up with the obsession around FE ?

Why not want more characters from XBC3 ?

 

[Gengar84]

With Black Knight you have to go in with the intent of making the slowest, heaviest and strongest fighter in the roster to capture his essence properly. In isolation from the actual game that's a really cool idea. However you then need to consider how Smash is a platform fighter and how it also has huge stages like Palutena's Temple and GCO.

All of a sudden he'd be... kinda miserable to play as.

I believe the Black Knight can teleport if I remember correctly. That could help him cover ground and make up for his otherwise slow movement. Kind of like Exdeath in Dissidia.

 

[dream1ng]

**** it, let's just make Lyn a Marth clone if we're in the unlucky business of putting popular characters onto movesets that vaguely work but not really. She's more popular than Black Knight anyway.

 

[Gengar84]

**** it, let's just make Lyn a Marth clone if we're in the unlucky business of putting popular characters onto movesets that vaguely work but not really. She's more popular than Black Knight anyway.

I’ll take it over nothing but I always thought Lynn was more of a Samurai style fighter where Marth is more of a fencer style. I think the Black Knight probably has more in common with Ike moveset wise than Dark Samus does with Samus and they made that work.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

What's up with the obsession around FE ?

Why not want more characters from XBC3 ?

Ethel , Glimmer , & , Gray , are all exciting & better smash gameplay options

I am assuming we will get Noah & Mio. Because they already having amiibo

Because all i know from Xenoblade 3 is that theres a hot tomboy with wings on her head who speaks in a brittish street accent

 

[SPEN18]

For real, though, where even is that FE4 remake?

let's just make Lyn a Marth clone if we're in the unlucky business of putting popular characters onto movesets that vaguely work but not really. She's more popular than Black Knight anyway

you can't even try to play the "swordie" game in this case either, since BK also uses a sword

 

[Noipoi]

Yeah man BK would be a great fighter

I love Burger King

 

[dream1ng]

I’ll take it over nothing but I always thought Lynn was more of a Samurai style fighter where Marth is more of a fencer style. I think the Black Knight probably has more in common with Ike moveset wise than Dark Samus does with Samus and they made that work.

Yeah they're not the same style at all

you can't even try to play the "swordie" game in this case either, since BK also uses a sword

I'm playing the "it could work but it wouldn't be good" game

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah they're not the same style at all


I'm playing the "it could work but it wouldn't be good" game

That’s my problem with mods. If I wanted to port a Samurai character over anyone, the closest option we really have is Sephiroth. None of the other sword fighters we have really fit that style.

 

[dream1ng]

That’s my problem with mods. If I wanted to port a Samurai character over anyone, the closest option we really have is Sephiroth. None of the other sword fighters we have really fit that style.

Well yeah, but I think most people go into mods knowing that it's not gonna be a perfect solution and those that embrace that scene do so more on a "better something than nothing" basis.

 

[Gengar84]

Well yeah, but I think most people go into mods knowing that it's not gonna be a perfect solution and those that embrace that scene do so more on a "better something than nothing" basis.

Yeah, that’s pretty much what I do. I try to find whoever’s moveset fits the closest and just work with that. It kind of forces me to think creatively and find similarities between characters I might not have thought of otherwise. It would definitely help if we got a few more general archetypes to work with but it’s still fun.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah man BK would be a great fighter

I love Burger King

nah dude ronald mcdonald is way more iconic and mcdonalds as a company has more history with nintendo

but maybe BK king could come with the kfc dude as an echo fighter

 

[Hadokeyblade]

nah dude ronald mcdonald is way more iconic and mcdonalds as a company has more history with nintendo

but maybe BK king could come with the kfc dude as an echo fighter

Sanders is too iconic to be an echo fighter

 

[Stratos]

Should the Black Knight have his true name and appearance in future Super Smash Bros. games? Of course I'm referring to Zelgius, although now that I think about it he'll be more in demand as a Black Knight.

 

[Ivander]

Should the Black Knight have his true name and appearance in future Super Smash Bros. games? Of course I'm referring to Zelgius, although now that I think about it he'll be more in demand as a Black Knight.

I don't think it's entirely a big deal when to get the Black Knight spirit, you need to level up the Zelgius spirit. A Mii with the Black Knight costume is also fought when fighting Zelgius. Not to mention Heroes has Zelgius unmasked wearing the armor.
But honestly, I don't know what their stance would be regarding Zelgius as an Alternate for Black Knight, considering compared to Lucina who lost her Masked Marth identity quickly, Black Knight didn't have his identity revealed as Zelgius until the end chapters of Radiant Dawn. I don't know whether they'd consider giving Black Knight a Zelgius alt too much or if they think it's no longer a big deal, but I'm not against alternate costumes regardless.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It would be an "interesting maneuver" if they just used his real name.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Fire Emblem roster doesn't need a change. Maybe Corrin could go, and I'd give Lucina and Chrom a shared moveset whilst still being based on Marth a little. Or leave them like it is as they're actually great Echoes. Turn Grima into a proper Robin Echo, and a boss fight. Roy's Flare Blade becomes a semi projectile fully charged. IKE STAYS! Byleth stays of course but I'd want them to have a moveset using the Sword of the Creator tbh.

Just swap Corrin for Alear, or the next protagonist. And maybe add Lyn cause it's time.

 

[fogbadge]

Because all i know from Xenoblade 3 is that theres a hot tomboy with wings on her head who speaks in a brittish street accent

somebody is lying to you

 

[Sucumbio]

The Fire Emblem roster doesn't need a change. Maybe Corrin could go, and I'd give Lucina and Chrom a shared moveset whilst still being based on Marth a little. Or leave them like it is as they're actually great Echoes. Turn Grima into a proper Robin Echo, and a boss fight. Roy's Flare Blade becomes a semi projectile fully charged. IKE STAYS! Byleth stays of course but I'd want them to have a moveset using the Sword of the Creator tbh.

Just swap Corrin for Alear, or the next protagonist. And maybe add Lyn cause it's time.

It's definitely time for Lyn but I think Corrin should stay. If they do "need" to cut back on the fe roster I'd rather they consider one of the 4 Marths as DarthEnderX has put it previously.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If they do "need" to cut back on the fe roster I'd rather they consider one of the 4 Marths as DarthEnderX has put it previously.

Agreed. Though since I'm a "no cuts" guy, I'd prefer they just gave Chrom a new moveset and made Lucina his Echo. So we have 2 Marths and 2 Chroms instead of 4 Marths.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Honestly I'm worried about Robin.

I think they were a great pick and that it's great to have a mage character on the roster but like...compared to the other FE characters hardly anyone actually plays them.

This might be a hot take (maybe?) but I blame their durability system being honestly kind of unfun. It's more a minor annoyance then something that really makes you have to think. Plus it doesn't really feel justified as they're already held back by their poor movement, and other characters get to play with busted moves or mechanics without bizarre drawbacks.

I think it's good to have an FE character who's more technical and less pick-up-and-play for thr sake of roster diversity, but it feels like Robin is that way for all the wrong reasons.

Plus if Marth and Roy come back, then they can fairly easily bring Lucina and Chrom back too. Marth is the og and Roy/Chrom are very popular, so cutting them would feel like a mistake. But that also means Robin probably doesn't have being an Awakening rep really going for them either.

Now I don't think should be cut, nor do I want them to - but I also don't think the fan demand or player counts are really there. Even when discussing cuts I feel like people forget about them. And if it was between cutting them and Marth, Roy or Ike?

Even Corrin I find as something of a guilty pleasure. Even they aren't as universally hated as people make them out to be. Fates may have had terrible writing but they still have a cute design, freaky dragon powers and a chainsaw sword - those are big draws.

 

[Noipoi]

Honestly I'm worried about Robin.

I think they were a great pick and that it's great to have a mage character on the roster but like...compared to the other FE characters hardly anyone actually plays them.

This might be a hot take (maybe?) but I blame their durability system being honestly kind of unfun. It's more a minor annoyance then something that really makes you have to think. Plus it doesn't really feel justified as they're already held back by their poor movement, and other characters get to play with busted moves or mechanics without bizarre drawbacks.

I think it's good to have an FE character who's more technical and less pick-up-and-play for thr sake of roster diversity, but it feels like Robin is that way for all the wrong reasons.

Plus if Marth and Roy come back, then they can fairly easily bring Lucina and Chrom back too. Marth is the og and Roy/Chrom are very popular, so cutting them would feel like a mistake. But that also means Robin probably doesn't have being an Awakening rep really going for them either.

Now I don't think should be cut, nor do I want them to - but I also don't think the fan demand or player counts are really there. Even when discussing cuts I feel like people forget about them. And if it was between cutting them and Marth, Roy or Ike?

Even Corrin I find as something of a guilty pleasure. Even they aren't as universally hated as people make them out to be. Fates may have had terrible writing but they still have a cute design, freaky dragon powers and a chainsaw sword - those are big draws.

I guarantee you if it comes down to Robin or Corrin, Corrin's getting the boot.

So rejoice. Or don't, because you like both of them.

I'unno

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's definitely time for Lyn but I think Corrin should stay. If they do "need" to cut back on the fe roster I'd rather they consider one of the 4 Marths as DarthEnderX has put it previously.

Actually to be extremely honest. I'll pull back from wanting Corrin cut. I'm 1000% positive that with Fire Emblem Engage there won't be any cut from the Fire Emblem roster anyway lol

It's like, they're doing the most to keep the current cast relevant and significant. There's just no way.

 

[Soy_Man]

It's definitely time for Lyn but I think Corrin should stay. If they do "need" to cut back on the fe roster I'd rather they consider one of the 4 Marths as DarthEnderX has put it previously.

Roy having a moveset that looks vaguely similar to Marth's doesn't make him a Marth clone. That have completely different playstyles. Corrin is more derivative of Marth than Roy is.

 

[fogbadge]

i used to be quite annoyed by the number of FE characters in smash. i seem to have stopped caring about that part. dunno why. i've not really got much in the way of opinions of who should be cut. but i do think byleth should have a revamp. i just doesn't feel right that he has the weapons of the other three

 

[Sucumbio]

Roy having a moveset that looks vaguely similar to Marth's doesn't make him a Marth clone. That have completely different playstyles. Corrin is more derivative of Marth than Roy is.

I agree Roy and Marth have different playstyles, but Corrin is really in her own league, being she has a projectile, crazy huge sword, pin...

Sharing dancing blade is what makes those 4 obviously related, though that is all that really makes Marth and Roy similar, and Lucina and Chrom are tweeked variants of them with Ike's recovery thrown in on Chrom for some reason.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

i used to be quite annoyed by the number of FE characters in smash. i seem to have stopped caring about that part. dunno why. i've not really got much in the way of opinions of who should be cut. but i do think byleth should have a revamp. i just doesn't feel right that he has the weapons of the other three

I think its fine. Byketh can use any weapon type, a thing i tthink they only did in FE knowing he would have just been called a Mart clone in smash if they didnt

 

[Sucumbio]

I think its fine. Byketh can use any weapon type, a thing i tthink they only did in FE knowing he would have just been called a Mart clone in smash if they didnt

I read this and immediately thought