Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SPEN18]

Overall middle-of-the-road.
There were some nice moments: Another Code and Peach Showtime looked cool; other things we already knew about looked good; and I gotta say, while still not quite what I would've wanted, F-Zero 99 looks fun and as someone with a soft spot for classic SNES F-Zero I couldn't help but smile during that trailer.
But yeah this lineup is really making it clear that the Switch is firmly in decline phase.

 

[dream1ng]

So pumped we have potential for a new Marth clone

Yah know, after the SMRPG was confirmed a lot of people are expecting Geno again for the next Smash and I kinda believed that as well.

This time... I dunno. My gut really tells me Paper Mario is actually likelier right now.

This shouldn't really change anything, Paper Mario has fairly regularly received games since the series started. The only reason this one got the closer for the direct is because of how few new reveals were actually shown.

Things have pretty clearly shifted to the Switch 2, and we're in the late-stage "mostly remake/remaster/spin-off" stage of the Switch's library.

I think this is also one of the areas in which it helps that Geno is third-party, because I see Waluigi as more of an impediment to Paper Mario than Geno. Yes they're different genres, but Waluigi and PM are both first-party Mario spin-off characters that would probably be added in the same grouping, while Geno would likely be selected at a different point along development with other DLC, especially since it's unlikely Square would want their characters in base, if they could help it.

In celebration of the Paper Mario remaster, can we talk about Paper Mario as a fighter?

Well he would certainly be unique, which is nice for a Mario. And I think he has the merit, his series is pretty longstanding at this point.

That said, I really wouldn't be that psyched getting another Mario. Even a unique one.

Waluigi, Pauline, Toad, Geno - personally I'd be bigger on any of those.

 

[smashkirby]

You're missing a big one.

The one and only Ashley Robbins.

Still pleasantly surprised at seeing Ashley Mizuki Robbins again after all of this time. At the very least, if Smash ever decides to bring back Trophies, at least Ashley's got a new brand-new shiny upscaled model that can be utilized.

 

[SPEN18]

Neglected to mention above: I don't think this really changes much if anything for Smash, at least in terms of new playable characters.

 

[CannonStreak]

Neglected to mention above: I don't think this really changes much if anything for Smash, at least in terms of new playable characters.

Makes sense, especially, but not limited to if the new Smash is being made right now. I mean, the characters are planned early in development, are they not?

 

[dream1ng]

This might be a hot take but while imo Peach Showtime actually looks pretty interesting (though my guess is some transformations will be more fun than others), and I'm glad Peach is getting a new starring role... the game strikes me as a good example of Nintendo sticking existing IP onto things that are distinct enough that they could've been a new property.

Like, the game looks fun, and it's nice to see new Mario characters, but it's a pretty big departure for the IP and for Peach. And that's cool, but... new IPs aren't that common from Nintendo these days, so to me it's a little bittersweet as well. And tbf, it probably will do better this way.

 

[EarlTamm]

This might be a hot take but while imo Peach Showtime actually looks pretty interesting (though my guess is some transformations will be more fun than others), and I'm glad Peach is getting a new starring role... the game strikes me as a good example of Nintendo sticking existing IP onto things that are distinct enough that they could've been a new property.

Like, the game looks fun, and it's nice to see new Mario characters, but it's a pretty big departure for the IP and for Peach. And that's cool, but... new IPs aren't that common from Nintendo these days, so to me it's a little bittersweet as well. And tbf, it probably will do better this way.

I know it wasn't a Nintnedo game, but my mind immediately went to a take that I 100% agree with.

The new Princess Peach game is just Balan Wonderworld but good and I won't elaborate further

— UltimaShadow (2005) (@UltimaShadowX) September 14, 2023

 

[SPEN18]

This might be a hot take but while imo Peach Showtime actually looks pretty interesting (though my guess is some transformations will be more fun than others), and I'm glad Peach is getting a new starring role... the game strikes me as a good example of Nintendo sticking existing IP onto things that are distinct enough that they could've been a new property.

Like, the game looks fun, and it's nice to see new Mario characters, but it's a pretty big departure for the IP and for Peach. And that's cool, but... new IPs aren't that common from Nintendo these days, so to me it's a little bittersweet as well. And tbf, it probably will do better this way.

I mean, look at their choices for remakes.
They are definitely leaning hard into the Mario branding, especially on the heels of the Mario movie, theme park, and all.

 

[TheQuester]

Neglected to mention above: I don't think this really changes much if anything for Smash, at least in terms of new playable characters.

Well there's the villain of the peach game.....
He could be an assist trophy.

 

[Perkilator]

Why do you guys think did took so long for the Sora amiibo?

Probably because of how long amiibo production takes in general.

 

[SPEN18]

Well there's the villain of the peach game.....
He could be an assist trophy.

I said in terms of new playable characters.
But auxiliary representation, sure stuff from this Direct could influence that.
I also wonder if Peach would get anything from this new game in her moveset, like idk that ribbon move would be relatively easy to work in, for example.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I mean, look at their choices for remakes.
They are definitely leaning hard into the Mario branding, especially on the heels of the Mario movie, theme park, and all.

Also it seems like they really want to sheed the New super mario asthetic with these. Since they chose the more wacky Mario games to remake.

 

[Nekoo]

So apparently it seems that SMRPG remake might have be done by the Kingdom Hearts team.

That explain the quality and attention to detail...nice.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

So pumped we have potential for a new Marth clone

This shouldn't really change anything, Paper Mario has fairly regularly received games since the series started. The only reason this one got the closer for the direct is because of how few new reveals were actually shown.

With this in mind, a question - do you think this game will inspire any elements of Peach's moveset in the future? I personally reckon they'd at least include the ribbon in her neutral air or something

 

[Nekoo]

With this in mind, a question - do you think this game will inspire any elements of Peach's moveset in the future? I personally reckon they'd at least include the ribbon in her neutral air or something

Nah, it won't beside maybe like, one move or a taunt, maybe an alt, but it won't especially if they want to keep her float gimmick

 

[TheQuester]

With this in mind, a question - do you think this game will inspire any elements of Peach's moveset in the future? I personally reckon they'd at least include the ribbon in her neutral air or something

Depends how well the game does, if it's a success they'll probably change some of her moves, probably a stage too.

 

[SPEN18]

Also it seems like they really want to sheed the New super mario asthetic with these. Since they chose the more wacky Mario games to remake.

That might be reading too much into it, since these are remakes of spinoffs, i.e. not games that are going to be establishing overarching art directions for the main series

 

[dream1ng]

I mean, look at their choices for remakes.
They are definitely leaning hard into the Mario branding, especially on the heels of the Mario movie, theme park, and all.

Well, they always lean hard into the Mario branding. Their MO is usually to see if an idea works for an existing IP before making it something new, and Mario is usually the first one in line.

I just wish they wouldn't do that so much if the idea is distinct enough on its own, because I'd enjoy more new IPs. People say we never get new IP from Nintendo, and that's not true, but it is true that it's certainly not everyday a new one comes along.

But it's not the end of the world, and next year has a good chance at revealing something totally new (on top of whatever supercasual game launches with the Switch 2).

With this in mind, a question - do you think this game will inspire any elements of Peach's moveset in the future? I personally reckon they'd at least include the ribbon in her neutral air or something

If a move can mostly retain its functionality but be reworked to reference something from this game, that seems plausible. And yeah, her aerials seem conducive to adding the ribbon.

Other than that, maybe one move changes, but a lot of the longtime movesets seem fairly fixed. I mean it took several LM games before Luigi's moveset even got minor changes to reflect those games.

It'd be cool if she got a taunt where she swapped into one of the rotating costumes and back, though that's probably more work than they'd commit to.

 

[Garteam]

How much does a collection of all Ultimate amiibos cost me? It’s gotta be at least $800.

I imagine it would be way over that at this point. There are 80 figures and some of them cost the better part of $100. I wouldn’t be surprised if the cost approached the better part of $10,000 at this point.

 

[FazDude]

With this in mind, a question - do you think this game will inspire any elements of Peach's moveset in the future? I personally reckon they'd at least include the ribbon in her neutral air or something

Probably nothing crazy - She already uses ribbons for Up Smash, so it's possible we could see that get visually redesigned to resemble her ribbons from Showtime, and adding one to Nair is reasonable, but I doubt we'll get anything like a stance-changing Peach (though a new FS isn't out of the question).

 

[EarlTamm]

So apparently it seems that SMRPG remake might have be done by the Kingdom Hearts team.

That explain the quality and attention to detail...nice.

You know, with the new content shown off being post game rematches against old bosses, I can totally believe it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Why do you guys think did took so long for the Sora amiibo?

It didn't? The Kazuya amiibo just came out last Direct. It's just a side effect of each Amiibo being, like, 3-4 months apart.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So apparently it seems that SMRPG remake might have be done by the Kingdom Hearts team.

That explain the quality and attention to detail...nice.

Considering Kingdom hearts 4 hasnt had an update in a while i totally buy that.

 

[TheQuester]

It didn't? The Kazuya amiibo just came out last Direct. It's just a side effect of each Amiibo being, like, 3-4 months apart.

Google says the Kazuya amiibo came out in January of 2023, and he was anounced in dec 2022.
Edit: Wait, Pyra/Myhtra were released in July of this year after Kazuya.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, I am definitely feeling good about Geno’s chances for the next Smash Bros. I do think the Paper Mario game remake gives him some competition, though. I can think of a new Final Smash for Geno now, and with the new features of the SMRPG remake, I can see him attack more than one opponent with one attack.

 

[Will]

I imagine it would be way over that at this point. There are 80 figures and some of them cost the better part of $100. I wouldn’t be surprised if the cost approached the better part of $10,000 at this point.

I was having this hypothetical have the best case scenario where you’ve been collecting them since SSB4 when they were $12 a pop.

i haven’t even considered the reality of scalpers

 

[TheQuester]

Well, I am definitely feeling good about Geno’s chances for the next Smash Bros. I do think the Paper Mario game remake gives him some competition, though. I can think of a new Final Smash for Geno now, and with the new features of the SMRPG remake, I can see him attack more than one opponent with one attack.

Yeah, i'd be surprised if Geno isn't playable next game.
Mallow could be an AT too.

 

[dream1ng]

So apparently it seems that SMRPG remake might have be done by the Kingdom Hearts team.

That explain the quality and attention to detail...nice.

Cool, also means the Nintendo suspects still have games to show.

What's the source?

Well, I am definitely feeling good about Geno’s chances for the next Smash Bros. I do think the Paper Mario game remake gives him some competition, though. I can think of a new Final Smash for Geno now, and with the new features of the SMRPG remake, I can see him attack more than one opponent with one attack.

Again, this really changes nothing. Paper Mario wasn't dormant, and gets an actual new title every gen. His case was already that.

 

[CannonStreak]

Yeah, i'd be surprised if Geno isn't playable next game.
Mallow could be an AT too.

Yeah.

That said, his Final Smash could be a team blast from the remake, one that varies between Mario, Peach, Bowser or Mallow being in the group, two of four of them alongside Geno. The Final Smash would be random with different party members being in each time (always containing Mario, though) and the Final Smash would be different depending on who is there.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Google says the Kazuya amiibo came out in January of 2023, and he was anounced in dec 2022.
Edit: Wait, Pyra/Myhtra were released in July of this year after Kazuya.

Yeah, I meant them. I knew the most recent Smash amiibos were very recent.

 

[CannonStreak]

Cool, also means the Nintendo suspects still have games to show.

What's the source?


Again, this really changes nothing. Paper Mario wasn't dormant, and gets an actual new title every gen. His case was already that.

Who said anything about Paper Mario being dormant, though, and the part of getting a new title every gen, I was not disregarding that.

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah.

That said, his Final Smash could be a team blast from the remake, one that varies between Mario, Peach, Bowser or Mallow being in the group, two of four of them alongside Geno. The Final Smash would be random with different party members being in each time (always containing Mario, though) and the Final Smash would be different depending on who is there.

I think it'll probably just stay Geno Flash considering 3/4 other party members are fighters themselves.

I know Robin's FS has Chrom, but it probably wouldn't if Chrom wasn't seemingly added kinda late.

Who said anything about Paper Mario being dormant, though, and the part of getting a new title every gen, I was not disregarding that.

Well those would be instances of this changing something. Paper Mario already gets new titles regularly, getting a remake really doesn't change his case.

 

[CannonStreak]

I think it'll probably just stay Geno Flash considering 3/4 other party members are fighters themselves.

I know Robin's FS has Chrom, but it probably wouldn't if Chrom wasn't seemingly added kinda late.


Well those would be instances of this changing something. Paper Mario already gets new titles regularly, getting a remake really doesn't change his case.

First off, so sue me, the Final Smash thing, it was just an idea.

And secondly, where did you get the idea that I was discarding the new games happening every gen? From me mentioning just the remake? Far from it.

I was just thinking that the remake was a more up to date thing here, even if it is based on a previous game. I guess it may not have been a factor with the new games every gen, but I was more so thinking, at least thinking in the eyes of others as a possibility, that those others, who do not know that the roster for Smash Bros. games are planned early on in development, would think this would give Geno some competition.

 

[dream1ng]

First off, so sue me, the Final Smash thing, it was just an idea.

Ok, take it easy. I was just giving a counterpoint. That's what we do here.

And secondly, where did you get the idea that I was discarding the new games happening every gen? From me mentioning just the remake? Far from it.

No, from saying the TTYD remake gives Geno some competition. Remakes really don't mean much if the character gets regular new games. And since PM does get regular new games, putting weight on the remake instead is elevating the wrong aspect of PM's case.

I was just thinking that the remake was a more up to date thing here, even if it is based on a previous game. I guess it may not have been a factor with the new games every gen, but I was more so thinking, at least thinking in the eyes of others as a possibility, that those others, who do not know that the roster for Smash Bros. games are planned early on in development, would think this would give Geno some competition.

A character who gets new games every gen is always up to date. On the other hand, remakes are very rarely decisive in what affects character choice.

 

[Nekoo]

There's no competition between Geno and Paper Mario.
Paper Mario is if Sakurai wake up one day, make a paper plane while bored, and be like "ayoo, let's put him in."

Geno has to go through the gates of Square-Enix's Lawyers.
Geno's only competition is within his own company lmao. But honestly, considering how Square-Enix is, I bet they'd gladly allow him next time imo.

 

[CannonStreak]

Ok, take it easy. I was just giving a counterpoint. That's what we do here.


No, from saying the TTYD remake gives Geno some competition. Remakes really don't mean much if the character gets regular new games. And since PM does get regular new games, putting weight on the remake instead is elevating the wrong aspect of PM's case.


A character who gets new games every gen is always up to date. On the other hand, remakes are very rarely decisive in what affects character choice.

I knew there was importance with the games coming out every gen, but I was on my iPhone when I was typing that, and I was kinda in a hurry, so I left it out. But that is just one thing, so despite what was said, there was no need to take it as it referring to just the remake.

Though I would not say the remakes rarely have an effect on who gets in the next Smash Bros. I mean, it makes sense, BUT I think you are giving them less credit than what it actually could get. Besides, I don't know for sure, but I do not think many remakes were being made around Ultimate's time anyway...well, nothing that may have had characters that were not already in the game.

 

[dream1ng]

I knew there was importance with the games coming out every gen, but I was on my iPhone when I was typing that, and I was kinda in a hurry, so I left it out. But that is just one thing, so despite what was said, there was no need to take it as it referring to just the remake.

But you specified the remake as giving Geno competition. I'm saying I don't agree with that. I don't think the remake means much of anything to PM's case.

Though I would not say the remakes rarely have an effect on who gets in the next Smash Bros.

Well then you'd be incorrect. ZSS is the only character who got in based on a remake.

People may raise Trainer, but that's just his appearance. That character got in because he's Pokemon's protagonist, and uses the Kanto starters.

But even if we counted him, that leaves the other 80-something not owing to remakes. So yes, that's rarely.

I mean, it makes sense, BUT I think you are giving them less credit than what it actually could get. Besides, I don't know for sure, but I do not think many remakes were being made around Ultimate's time anyway...well, nothing that may have had characters that were not already in the game.

Well in terms of Paper Mario, it's moot, because he gets regular new games and those obviously mean more. A remake isn't going to change anything.

 

[kiteinthesky]

I'll eat my hat if Geno doesn't make the roster next game.

I don't even have a hat but I'll eat it anyway.

 

[CannonStreak]

But you specified the remake as giving Geno competition. I'm saying I don't agree with that. I don't think the remake means much of anything to PM's case.


Well then you'd be incorrect. ZSS is the only character who got in based on a remake.

People may raise Trainer, but that's just his appearance. That character got in because he's Pokemon's protagonist, and uses the Kanto starters.

But even if we counted him, that leaves the other 80-something not owing to remakes. So yes, that's rarely.


Well in terms of Paper Mario, it's moot, because he gets regular new games and those obviously mean more. A remake isn't going to change anything.

Well, I said I thought, and more so, I knew the games for PM coming out every gen was another, yet bigger factor, anyway.

Like i said, though, the thing with remakes, is that I think most characters from them are already in the game in some form, and there are others who are not so, well, important from those remakes. So I think it depends on who we are talking about in terms of who gets in from a remake. I didn't directly say it was rare, yet it might be rarer than you think. There are not enough chances to have characters from remakes be important enough to be put in Smash.

And for the last part, I was not talking about Paper Mario, and I was about to talk about something else in that regard.

 

[Nekoo]

I'll eat my hat if Geno doesn't make the roster next game.

I don't even have a hat but I'll eat it anyway.

The only way Geno doesn't make it, is if Nintendo manage to get 2B and dribble CERO. Or if they wake up and decide to put one more FF charac-

Ah. ****.

Crono.

Welp, pack-it up guys, I think Geno isn't happening.