Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Chuderz]

Delete please. Sorry.

 

[MasterCheef]

“The current ‘Super Smash Bros.’ has too much of my personality poured into it.” Masahiro Sakurai.

I agree with this statement. MS tends to put character's models into smash based on their most original state or at least waay too close.

More importantly tho is he does not generally work on making move-sets which actually work together to make the character as effective as they could be.
Examples Include ; Mario , Ganondorf , Palutena , Samus , Mii Gunner , King DeDeDe , Kirby , Mewtwo

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

“The current ‘Super Smash Bros.’ has too much of my personality poured into it.” Masahiro Sakurai.

Not to sound clueless, and not to necessarily disagree with the statement you posted, but...

Where did this quote come from? I've haven't seen it before.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Source gaming mega poll top 50 results. Will post the top 50 itself after brunch.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

“The current ‘Super Smash Bros.’ has too much of my personality poured into it.” Masahiro Sakurai.

I agree with this statement. MS tends to put character's models into smash based on their most original state or at least waay too close.

More importantly tho is he does not generally work on making move-sets which actually work together to make the character as effective as they could be.
Examples Include ; Mario , Ganondorf , Palutena , Samus , Mii Gunner , King DeDeDe , Kirby , Mewtwo

Totally agree on the moveset side of things. Samus is a character I wish I could say I enjoyed. I just don't because of how clunky and awkward she is.

Mario's an odd one in this list because in Melee he was designed to be the Smash version of a shoto (like Ryu). So his moveset has the same features: an uppercut to hit people in the air, a fireball to hit people far away, and a spinny move that's active for a long time to deal with people close up. Then he gets the cape as an anti-projectile move. It's all the features you'd want in a well-rounded fighter. He's just been incrementally altered since that design so that it doesn't feel quite right now that he's a rushdown character. Personally, I don't think he's too far from where he needs to be, but FLUDD is so disconnected from everything else he does that it feels like a gimmick.

Ganondorf is also weird, because there are so many simple fixes that would make him so much better in gameplay. Taking away freefall from side-B would help his recovery immensely and make him a lot more threatening offstage. Giving his down-B armor against projectiles would remove some of his struggle against zoners. Changing his up-tilt to basically anything else would give him a faster anti-air option (I'd like if it took some notes from his Smash 4 up-smash, but that's just me). Or they could just redesign the whole kit so he's less of a clone.

To be fair, Ultimate has treated a lot of characters better than in any previous Smash. The initial approach of nerfing the best moves and buffing the worst was a good starting point for a lot of characters that would previously only utilize maybe five moves. Ultimate has my favorite versions of Ness, Dr. Mario, and Falco because of it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

grumble Hayabusa all the way down at 29?

And none of my other missing NES icons are even on the list!

Thumbs down, poll. Thumbs down!

 

[SneakyLink]

i forgot that poll existed but I still had a 2 second celebration seeing Otto Matic with one vote in the poll!

Then again… I was probably the one vote anyways so…

 

[TCT~Phantom]

grumble Hayabusa all the way down at 29?

And none of my other missing NES icons are even on the list!

Thumbs down, poll. Thumbs down!

Mega Smash Poll Ultimate Results – The Most Wanted Fighters for a Future Game

It’s time for part 7 of the Mega Smash Poll Ultimate results. In this part, we will be looking beyond Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, and looking at the franchises future. What better way to start than…

sourcegaming.info

Here are the full results, might tickle your fancy more.

 

[MrMcNuts]

RAYMAN AT NUMBER 5 REMAINING A POPULAR CHOICE LETS GOOOOOO

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well, as of today, Bayonetta 3 has released, meaning that the only major Nintendo game left for this year (unless they drop a surprise) is Pokemon. After that, we'll be waiting until 2023 for Fire Emblem, Zelda, Pikmin, Kirby, and whatever the first Direct of that year announces.

I'm not sure why I felt the need to mention that, but I figured it was worth sharing, for discussion's sake (even though it can only vaguely be used for Smash).

 

[SneakyLink]

Mega Smash Poll Ultimate Results – The Most Wanted Fighters for a Future Game

It’s time for part 7 of the Mega Smash Poll Ultimate results. In this part, we will be looking beyond Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, and looking at the franchises future. What better way to start than…

sourcegaming.info

Here are the full results, might tickle your fancy more.

I wonder why Sans is not on the full list, despite likely having votes and other Mii Costumed characters showing up…

 

[Gengar84]

grumble Hayabusa all the way down at 29?

And none of my other missing NES icons are even on the list!

Thumbs down, poll. Thumbs down!

Yeah, I feel like we’re both probably too old to see a lot of our childhood favorites get much support these days. It’s sad not to see a single RARE character break the top 50 or other favorites like Bill Rizer. There were still some characters I’d be happy to see in this list but almost none of my absolute favorites made the cut.

Also, I may have just missed it, but did Geno not even make the top 50? That’s a huge shock if so. So much that I feel like I must have just been spacing out when they brought him up.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Yeah, I feel like we’re both probably too old to see a lot of our childhood favorites get much support these days. It’s sad not to see a single RARE character break the top 50 or other favorites like Bill Rizer. There were still some characters I’d be happy to see in this list but not many of my absolute favorites made the cut.

Also, I may have just missed it, but did Geno not even make the top 50? That’s a huge shock if so. So much that I feel like I must have just been spacing out when they brought him up.

He got 7th lol.

But yeah, I’m a little surprised a few picks like Arthur, Bill Rizer, or especially Hayabusa didn’t do better. I know there are solid amounts of requests for some of these NES era IPs. I think with the voting system Hayabusa most likely cannibalized a lot of the support for the other characters, but even then he underperformed. Part of me has been wondering for a while if Hayabusa is more expected than wanted by the community at large. I’d personally want him, if only for an Unbreakable Determination Remix in smash.

 

[Gengar84]

He got 7th lol.

But yeah, I’m a little surprised a few picks like Arthur, Bill Rizer, or especially Hayabusa didn’t do better. I know there are solid amounts of requests for some of these NES era IPs. I think with the voting system Hayabusa most likely cannibalized a lot of the support for the other characters, but even then he underperformed. Part of me has been wondering for a while if Hayabusa is more expected than wanted by the community at large. I’d personally want him, if only for an Unbreakable Determination Remix in smash.

I had a feeling I had to have missed it lol. That’s what I get for trying to multitask and listen to it while I work.

From this list, I’d be the most hyped for Crono, Zero, Scorpion Dixie, and Impa but all but Zero have caveats. Neither Crono nor Scorpion are my most wanted from their series and both Dixie and Impa would need to be made a particular way for me to get really excited.

 

[Sucumbio]

Mega Smash Poll Ultimate Results – The Most Wanted Fighters for a Future Game

It’s time for part 7 of the Mega Smash Poll Ultimate results. In this part, we will be looking beyond Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, and looking at the franchises future. What better way to start than…

sourcegaming.info

Here are the full results, might tickle your fancy more.

Rhythm Heaven with one nod haha I just named them as likely to get a character next game perhaps not so.

 

[Gengar84]

Just out of curiosity, how many other people didn’t see any of their top 5 most wanted characters in the top 50 here? Zero is in my top 10 and the others I mentioned are pretty close to the top 10 but none of my dream picks made the list at all, which isn’t really too surprising to be fair.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Source gaming mega poll top 50 results. Will post the top 50 itself after brunch.

Pretty comforting to see BWD have grown to be the most wanted first-party rivaling Waluigi. I'm old enough to remember the times supporting him was met with laughter and mockery, you don't really see that detraction anymore these days (or perhaps I've just stopped looking for it).

There really should be no excuse for him to miss the boat again next time, not even "Sakurai bias" cause I refuse to believe he'd be that petty.

 

[Gengar84]

Bandana Dee is a good choice for a character. I’d be totally fine if he made it and I’ve always liked Kirby games. The main reason I don’t really get hyped for him is that I feel he’s a really safe bet and is most likely getting in regardless (plus I’m more of a Bugzzy guy). Basically, the less expected a character is, the more I’d be excited for their inclusion and I just like cheering for underdogs. Not that characters like Waluigi or BWD are bad choices at all. My reaction to most really popular choices would be “Yeah, cool. That makes sense” rather than “OMG I can’t believe they made it!”

 

[SneakyLink]

Quick note regarding the results. It is being revised to recount the votes. Likely due to people noticing select characters were not included despite being voted for.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Oopsie, counting error

From what I've seen, Sans of all possible characters was nowhere on the full results, despite people saying they voted for them, sooo...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh, lol. I guess viewing the results more clearly(I don't want any videos with a list. I first want to see the actual list before reading the details so I have an idea of the core list's design) now doesn't matter.

 

[Gengar84]

Quick note regarding the results. It is being revised to recount the votes. Likely due to people noticing select characters were not included despite being voted for.

Dumb and Dumber- So you're telling me there's a chance

Dumb and Dumber- So you're telling me there's a chance

m.youtube.com

Let’s go Battletoads, Magus, Fulgore, Illidan, Kerrigan, Bill Rizer, Sub-Zero and Shionne!

Spoiler

I know they still won’t make it but let a guy dream lol.

 

[Troykv]

Source gaming mega poll top 50 results. Will post the top 50 itself after brunch.

W A L T

L I N G U I N I


MY SIDES XD

 

[TCT~Phantom]

As a heads up on the Source Gaming Mega Poll, the video is being redone due to an error.

The most likely culprit in terms of this is Sans, who did not make top 50 or the list at all when several other Undertale characters got nods in the full voting spread. Maybe the numbers precisely might be a tad off for other characters, but I think the ordering should stay outside of our lazy skeleton.

 

[Troykv]

As a heads up on the Source Gaming Mega Poll, the video is being redone due to an error.

The most likely culprit in terms of this is Sans, who did not make top 50 or the list at all when several other Undertale characters got nods in the full voting spread. Maybe the numbers precisely might be a tad off for other characters, but I think the ordering should stay outside of our lazy skeleton.

I wonder if the Sans votes ended up getting messed up because of the writing.

F for Chibi-Robo, in the end he took the L.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So, going to just talk about Crash rn since unless there was a massive error in his vote count (which I doubt given the Skeleton in the room), he comes out of this poll looking good.

Most of the core discussion on Crash has already been said and done, so I do not want to regurgitate that all over again. The real questions going forward most people had were the following three.

1. Does the Crash series keep its momentum after its revival?
2. Does Crash stay a big fan request?
3. Does the Microsoft buyout hurt or help him?

For question 1, the Crash twitter has all but confirmed with their teasers that we are getting something new for Crash at TGAs in December. What it will be I do not know, but I think it is safe to say any concerns that Crash is dead and Crash 4 bombed and killed the franchise can be put to rest. For now at least.

Question 2 I think we do have some evidence to suggest with this poll that might not be the case. Crash overwhelmingly took 1st place again for this pretty large reaching poll. Now, it is one poll, but it supports the trendline of Crash being a top request among Smash fans. Should this continue to hold, I think it bodes well for him.

Question 3 is the trickiest to answer, given that we have no real way of saying for sure whether it helps or hurts him. On one hand, Microsoft has their foot in the door for Smash, unlike Activision before them. They also seem to have at least some finger on the pulse of what fans for Smash want: we got Banjo from them. On the other hand, Microsoft competition is vast. We had three Microsoft characters in the top 10 of this poll alone (assuming nothing here changes). That is not counting other Microsoft owned characters they could go with, such as Dovakhin or Tracer. I personally think he benefits, but I won't argue if you think the competition hurts him.

Personally, so long as Crash stays in a position similar to what he is now, I think he has a very strong shot to get in the next smash. His series is alive and active. He is a popular request across the globe. I just feel optimistic on his odds going forward.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Source gaming mega poll top 50 results. Will post the top 50 itself after brunch.

grumble Hayabusa all the way down at 29?

And none of my other missing NES icons are even on the list!

Thumbs down, poll. Thumbs down!

And I think I need to educate these people about the Double Dragon series.

 

[Gengar84]

And I think I need to educate these people on the Double Dragon series.

I think the three of us need to join together and rally our favorites from the NES and SNES era. It’s almost criminal how neglected these former icons are these days lol. We’ve got to build support for these old school favorites somehow.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Crazy how despite being an "irrelevant side character from 20 years ago", Geno was still able to reign in 7th place. 10-place boost from pre-Ultimate. Nuts consider the blow from 2020

In fact, not just Geno: Issac, Bandana Dee, Crash, Shadow, Tails, Pheonix Wright, Layton, Dr Eggman, Spyro etc all got considerate boosts compared to pre-Ultimate. Ironically it kinda explained why they weren't included in Ultimate in the first place as that was around the time the roster was complete.

But i will say it definitely bolds well for Smash 6. Just need to keep than momentum going.

Results from Mega Smash Poll (Switch Edition)

Back in March, we launched our Mega Smash Poll 2018 and before E3 we wanted to reveal all the newcomer’s fans wanted.

sourcegaming.info

 

[Gengar84]

Crazy how despite being an "irrelevant side character from 20 years ago", Geno was still able to reign in 7th place. 10-place boost from pre-Ultimate. Nuts consider the blow from 2020

In fact, not just Geno: Issac, Bandana Dee, Crash, Shadow, Tails, Pheonix Wright, Layton, Dr Eggman, Spyro etc all got considerate boosts compared to pre-Ultimate. Ironically it kinda explained why they weren't included in Ultimate in the first place as that was around the time the roster was complete.

Results from Mega Smash Poll (Switch Edition)

Back in March, we launched our Mega Smash Poll 2018 and before E3 we wanted to reveal all the newcomer’s fans wanted.

sourcegaming.info

I think Smash could use a lot more “irrelevant side characters” to be honest. Super Mario RPG was a great game so it’s cool to see it still getting love today even if I do feel bad for Mallow. A game of just main protagonists can be a bit boring in my opinion.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Crazy how despite being an "irrelevant side character from 20 years ago", Geno was still able to reign in 7th place. 10-place boost from pre-Ultimate. Nuts consider the blow from 2020

In fact, not just Geno: Issac, Bandana Dee, Crash, Shadow, Tails, Pheonix Wright, Layton, Dr Eggman, Spyro etc all got considerate boosts compared to pre-Ultimate. Ironically it kinda explained why they weren't included in Ultimate in the first place as that was around the time the roster was complete.

Results from Mega Smash Poll (Switch Edition)

Back in March, we launched our Mega Smash Poll 2018 and before E3 we wanted to reveal all the newcomer’s fans wanted.

sourcegaming.info

Glad to see even Rayman got a smidge of a boost considering many will insist that he dropped off after the smash 4 days.

Honestly the top 10 of their recent poll would make great picks all around, not a single bad choice in there

 

[Troykv]

I think the three of us need to join together and rally our favorites from the NES and SNES era. It’s almost criminal how neglected these former icons are these days lol. We’ve got to build support for these old school favorites somehow.

It's the sad tale from being a franchise that used to be extremely prolific but ended up getting outpaced by other similarly old franchises (Like Zelda) for not being able to keep up with the generational shift.

Crazy how despite being an "irrelevant side character from 20 years ago", Geno was still able to reign in 7th place. 10-place boost from pre-Ultimate. Nuts consider the blow from 2020

In fact, not just Geno: Issac, Bandana Dee, Crash, Shadow, Tails, Pheonix Wright, Layton, Dr Eggman, Spyro etc all got considerate boosts compared to pre-Ultimate. Ironically it kinda explained why they weren't included in Ultimate in the first place as that was around the time the roster was complete.

Results from Mega Smash Poll (Switch Edition)

Back in March, we launched our Mega Smash Poll 2018 and before E3 we wanted to reveal all the newcomer’s fans wanted.

sourcegaming.info

I believe Dr. Eggman became more popular thanks to Sephiroth making people realize that extremely iconic villains should be represented too, and Dr. Eggman fits that perfectly, he's the character that always appears as Sonic's enemy, and in his own is extremely popular. Also his moveset potential is quite enormous with years of history.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think the three of us need to join together and rally our favorites from the NES and SNES era. It’s almost criminal how neglected these former icons are these days lol. We’ve got to build support for these old school favorites somehow.

Maybe if somebody can make some Youtube video that explains the history about the series and then talking about what they can bring to Smash, it just might help.

Either that or make a blog doing that or something.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I think Smash could use a lot more “irrelevant side characters” to be honest. Super Mario RPG was a great game so it’s cool to see it still getting love today even if I do feel bad for Mallow. A game of just main protagonists can be a bit boring in my opinion.

Even Sakurai sometimes feels the same way, that why he added Piranha Plant. Which was few choices with Ultimate that definitely agreed with

Glad to see even Rayman got a smidge of a boost considering many will insist that he dropped off after the smash 4 days.

Honestly the top 10 of their recent poll would make great picks all around, not a single bad choice in there

Idk, where even got than notion, Rayman is rn a lot more popular than he was before rn from Mario+Rabbids DLC annoncement, increased support etc.

Yeah, I wouldn't those picks either

 

[Troykv]

Even Sakurai sometimes feels the same way, that why he added Piranha Plant. Which was few choices with Ultimate that definitely agreed with

It definitely feels like the pot was THE Sakurai choice, the only one like that, and I appreciate the sheer boldness and how the concept was made into a moveset, the pot is extremely charming. The other newcomers were affected by other circunstances, which is a combination of the Ballot and "taken slots"

 

[Gengar84]

It’s sad to see how much hate Piranha Plant gets from most Smash fans. I thought it was a fun inclusion and it has a really cool and unique design. I’ve always preferred Goombas as my favorite generic enemy but PP is cool as well. A Goomba is actually still my most wanted Mario character, whether that be a normal Goomba, Goombella, or both.

 

[fogbadge]

It’s sad to see how much hate Piranha Plant gets from most Smash fans. I thought it was a fun inclusion and it has a really cool and unique design. I’ve always preferred Goombas as my favorite generic enemy but PP is cool as well. A Goomba is actually still my most wanted Mario character, whether that be a normal Goomba, Goombella, or both.

well there'll be all sorts of reasons why. in my case what little novelty the plant had faded ages ago. though i wouldn't say i hate him

 

[Gengar84]

well there'll be all sorts of reasons why. in my case what little novelty the plant had faded ages ago. though i wouldn't say i hate him

I can see that I suppose. In my case, it’s less of a question of “is this character iconic or popular enough?” and more whether I like the character, whether that be design, personality, moveset, or some combination. Being iconic is a nice bonus for some characters I happen to like anyway.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It definitely feels like the pot was THE Sakurai choice, the only one like that, and I appreciate the sheer boldness and how the concept was made into a moveset, the pot is extremely charming. The other newcomers were affected by other circunstances, which is a combination of the Ballot and "taken slots"

Well, it sure wasn't Nintendo's, as they only chose the Fighter's Pass.

PP is a weird one anyway. It's not an irrelevant character, but pretty much is a side character by all means. It has no story role beyond "mook"(well, every single visible member of the species does).

Meanwhile Geno is one of the main characters of Super Mario RPG, only adding to the core storyline(where only Peach among the 5 playable ones has no actual relevant role to the main story at all. Bowser got usurped by the villain. Mario is always going to fight the villain, unless the few times he is one. Mallow, while less important to the core plot than Geno, still at least adds to it since one of the seven stars is from his hometown. Geno's role is not just Mr. Exposition, but he's actually the main villain's personal enemy in saving the world of dreams. Ironically among Mario, Geno, and Bowser, it's only Mario who doesn't have a personal beef with Smithy).

It's also why the term "irrelevant side character" phrasing makes no lick of sense, because the character is neither irrelevant to the game he's in nor a side character in it. It's just the game that's a side game instead. At most, he's just an irrelevant character due to a lack of new appearances. And he can be called a side character solely due to the "game" he's from. However, the series has no canon, so spin-offs are pretty much meaningless in the long run of what's important. Everything happens, so side stories are kind of... not the same thing, as say, Hyrule Warriors in the Zelda franchise(Age of Calamity being a bit more odd since it actually isn't some crossover fun story but more tied to BOTW's story in comparison. I can never remember if it's canon). Regardless, it misinterprets his role, which is actually an important one in his game. The fact of the matter is, Geno's issues come from a lack of licensed reuse, and some obscurity due to Super Mario RPG not being a worldwide release at its time. It's one of the lesser known Super Mario games. Licensing him when they aren't interested in using him much at all(nor is Nintendo, since it's not a lot of gain. They reused him once, and omitted him for the revisioned port of the first Mario & Luigi. Mostly cause they didn't want to reuse the old designs that were unique to the series of games, for... some reason. Could be any, like the original artist gone and it being difficult to remake them properly without rehiring him for extra money or something? Who knows). But yeah, at least there's a legitimate reason he sees little use; he's a Mario character and isn't going to guest star in random Square-Enix created games. He's going to appear in Mario games... which require to license him, and being he's from a relatively obscure game(though it's more known now with the EU release), the effort of licensing is obviously not worth it.

 

[Gengar84]

I can totally sympathize with Geno fans. I feel the exact same way with Magus from Chrono Trigger, who is among my favorite characters ever. Magus and Geno have a ton in common with each being hugely important to the plot of the story despite not actually being the main protagonist. I just happen to personally like Magus more as a character.