Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

As I said before, if the Switch successor is backwards compatible, Nintendo may see a deluxe port as pointless given that the game (and presumably the eshop infrastructure to purchase DLC) will be doable on the new console anyway, which also potentially save them from having to renegotiate the contracts for third party characters/elements again.

As far as that conversation about Super Mario RPG's art style, honestly to me the real appeal was the backgrounds and aesthetics. The character designs do the job and work well enough, but it was stuff like tone of Forest Maze, Star Hill, & Tadpole Pond, etc. that still really blows me away now. If we could get a modern HD-2D version of that with perhaps slightly more pleasing character models, it'd be just about perfect.

 

[Sucumbio]

Maybe give it the Octopath treatment? I've only played smrgp in bits and pieces and don't exactly recall being floored by its aesthetics, but Octopath is frankly beautiful to look at even if the sprites were low res on purpose...

 

[SPEN18]

I still think many people are greatly overestimating the chances of a port coming with a significant amount of new content, if a port even happens. Realistically, port + new content typically isn't much more profitable than a straight copy-paste; when you're porting a recent game (not remastering), you're mostly targeting consumers who (1) missed buying the original game or (2) really want to continue to play the same game on the new hardware. Both classes of people are probably going to be just as likely to buy the game with or without significant new content. And as much as you would think new content is going to entice people, content itself doesn't sell a base game; your average consumer is going to buy or not buy based on how much they are interested in Smash Bros. itself, not whether the roster size is 80 or 85 or whatever similar number it might be. Sure, there will be some people who would be more willing to purchase if the deal is sweetened a bit, but very probably this is not going to be enough people to warrant the trouble of getting a whole dev team back together and Sakurai or a successor to make the highly involved design choices just for what would essentially boil down to DLC-type content. People forget how intensive every piece of Smash development becomes. And at the point that you're exhausting yourself so much on new content (especially working on unique newcomers, the difficulty of which is well-known), you might as well make a fully new game.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I still think many people are greatly overestimating the chances of a port coming with a significant amount of new content, if a port even happens. Realistically, port + new content typically isn't much more profitable than a straight copy-paste; when you're porting a recent game (not remastering), you're mostly targeting consumers who (1) missed buying the original game or (2) really want to continue to play the same game on the new hardware. Both classes of people are probably going to be just as likely to buy the game with or without significant new content. And as much as you would think new content is going to entice people, content itself doesn't sell a base game; your average consumer is going to buy or not buy based on how much they are interested in Smash Bros. itself, not whether the roster size is 80 or 85 or whatever similar number it might be. Sure, there will be some people who would be more willing to purchase if the deal is sweetened a bit, but very probably this is not going to be enough people to warrant the trouble of getting a whole dev team back together and Sakurai or a successor to make the highly involved design choices just for what would essentially boil down to DLC-type content. People forget how intensive every piece of Smash development becomes. And at the point that you're exhausting yourself so much on new content (especially working on unique newcomers, the difficulty of which is well-known), you might as well make a fully new game.

We’re talking about the franchise that literally breaks the internet every time a new character is announced. Good way or bad. People are going to jump on “Ultimate DX” in a heartbeat on hype alone if say Master Chief or Kratos was announced to be a part of the Deluxe version of the game.

Not only that but MK8DX disproves all of these points alone and yeah I know 8 was on Wii U originally. Point is there really isn’t much proof to this because Nintendo typically doesn’t do carry over Deluxe titles and the Switch is the first instance of this. And in this instance EVERY deluxe version of a Wii U game has sold tremendously more than it’s Wii U counterpart.

And aside from that EVERY Wii U port has come with significant new content. So it’s unlikely a Smash DX wouldn’t.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And aside from that EVERY Wii U port has come with significant new content. So it’s unlikely a Smash DX wouldn’t.

Yeah but that "significant new content" was far easier and cheaper to add than paying for Kratos+a bunch of God of War artwork and music, and balancing and bugtesting him against a roster of 80+ fighters and various items, hazards and assists. For example, MK8DX's battle mode courses were built off assets from the preexisting racetracks, including Wuhu Plaza using assets from Toad Harbor.

 

[Yamat08]

If we had to have an Ultimate DX, I think the name "Smash Ultimate: Special Edition" would work. It's gonna sound a little weird no matter what, might as well reference something else; The game's Japanese name. Likewise, in Japan it would be "Smash Special: Ultimate Edition".

Didn't I advocate for just this earlier in the thread? Though, my suggestion was to just combine both regional titles and use it for all regions, giving us "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Special" (or "Dairantou Smash Bros. Ultimate Special"). No need to switch up the ordering either, since the west is making "Ultimate" a Special edition, while Japan is making "Special" an Ultimate version.

Problem with that is that game companies LOVE to be cheap when it comes to ports. And if Sakurai's said that Subspace took a lot of resources, that's going to be out of reach in an Ultimate port. That's why I keep being adamant against an Ultimate port, if you actually paid attention to 99% of the remasters/ports/whatever the eighth gen consoles have gotten, you can see there are many ways a wish for Ultimate to be ported to the Switch's successor can be monkey pawed, from remasters that can't bring back all the licensed music of the original game, to remasters that are just literally the exact same game you played years ago but in 1080p. All I can say is that it at least wouldn't be a GTA Trilogy/Warcraft III Reforged-tier disaster.

Even MK8DX shows how Ultimate DX can be monkey pawed: No new racetracks for those who prefer racing over battling until 5 years later, and they're recycled Tour tracks with simplified visuals.

You talk about monkey pawing, but really, aside from your example of licensed music and GTA/Reforged, none of these are actively detrimental to the content of the original game. As far as I'm concerned, bringing back everything from the original game is the bare minimum of what should be expected from a re-release. If you can't even do that without majorly screwing something up, that's when you've got a truly bad port (or remake).

Gamecube titles have been in demand for years.

Just bring the Virtual Console back and make those titles easily available to purchase again.

This! Honestly, my main problem with Nintendo Switch Online isn't so much the dripfeeding of games (though it is a bit sad that they're pulling that crap for the third console generation in a row), but rather the fact that the entire service is little more than a glorified rental system. And sure, you get access to a somewhat large library for the relatively small price you pay, I won't deny that as a big positive. But even so, what happens if you, for whatever reason, find yourself without internet for an extended period of time? Or the Switch's online service eventually shuts down itself? Is Nintendo really setting up this online-only service with the intention that it's been future-proofed (I seem to recall the same thing being said about Pokemon Bank)? Really, I'd be willing to shell out the five bucks per title again, just grant me peace of mind from having the option to get these games saved to my system permanently again (more so since things like the FX games and Banjo-Kazooie were never on the Virtual Console prior).

 

[Hadokeyblade]

We’re talking about the franchise that literally breaks the internet every time a new character is announced. Good way or bad. People are going to jump on “Ultimate DX” in a heartbeat on hype alone if say Master Chief or Kratos was announced to be a part of the Deluxe version of the game.

Not only that but MK8DX disproves all of these points alone and yeah I know 8 was on Wii U originally. Point is there really isn’t much proof to this because Nintendo typically doesn’t do carry over Deluxe titles and the Switch is the first instance of this. And in this instance EVERY deluxe version of a Wii U game has sold tremendously more than it’s Wii U counterpart.

And aside from that EVERY Wii U port has come with significant new content. So it’s unlikely a Smash DX wouldn’t.

At the same time though a hypothetical "Special" edition of Ultimate would have a very ugly looking select screen lol

 

[SPEN18]

We’re talking about the franchise that literally breaks the internet every time a new character is announced. Good way or bad. People are going to jump on “Ultimate DX” in a heartbeat on hype alone if say Master Chief or Kratos was announced to be a part of the Deluxe version of the game.

Not only that but MK8DX disproves all of these points alone and yeah I know 8 was on Wii U originally. Point is there really isn’t much proof to this because Nintendo typically doesn’t do carry over Deluxe titles and the Switch is the first instance of this. And in this instance EVERY deluxe version of a Wii U game has sold tremendously more than it’s Wii U counterpart.

And aside from that EVERY Wii U port has come with significant new content. So it’s unlikely a Smash DX wouldn’t.

I think you overstate the effect of "hype" reveals on actual sales and business decisions. And the size of the intersection between Nintendo and, say, Halo gamers. But regardless, the point is not about whether a sales bump would happen, but whether the sales bump from adding a few popular characters or modes is going to be worth the resources put into them.
Commenting on the Wii U ports ignores my point (1) that one of the biggest impetuses for porting is getting a game to people who don't already have it. This would not be so much the case going from Ultimate to the next iteration. MK8 is barely relevant since the new content added to that game is dwarfed by most of the common suggestions for added content for Ultimate; all it says is that they're willing to add to a game well after its initial release, which is something but not anything close to what most "Ultimate DX" advocates are hoping for. No, what people are hoping for is, well, basically all the things that come with a brand new game except with the unreasonable expectation that everything already here can or should just be continually copied over to the next iteration without being significantly updated or reevaluated.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Honestly, in regards to the NES/SNES NSO libraries...I actually think they're quite comprehensive, at least first party wise.

NOTE: This image was made prior to the February Direct this year, hence why Earthbound and Earthbound Beginnings are listed.

But really with those two now included on the service...I don't think there's a whole lot left outside of Mario RPG, which has legal hangups with Square Enix. There are certainly a few weird omissions here and there like Mach Rider and Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II, but the rest of the remaining first party owned Nintendo games not on the services are mostly just obscure Japan only releases and games build around peripherals that aren't compatible with the Switch, like Mario Paint, Battle Clash, Duck Hunt and the other NES Zapper games, etc. Also a lot of SNES games that haven't even seen the light of day since their original release, like Tin Star or Uniracers (blame Pixar for suing it into oblivion lol)

Again, outside of Mario RPG, Nintendo really does have major classic first party NES/SNES game that are feasible on Switch hardware now, especially with Earthbound and Earthbound Beginnings just being added. I think the real issue is the lack of really great third party support. The Mega Mans, the Castlevanias, the Final Fantasies, Chrono Trigger, etc, it sucks those games aren't on the service but it does make sense: their respective companies would rather sell them to you in their own compilations or ports. At least Konami was more willing to play ball on the Expansion Pack, with the inclusions of Contra Hard Corps and Castlevania Bloodlines.

Third party support for the systems have been lacking, thats for true. I would love to see stuff like Chrono Trigger, Mega Man X, and more. My guess is licensing is hard for these games but idk.

I think you overstate the effect of "hype" reveals on actual sales and business decisions. And the size of the intersection between Nintendo and, say, Halo gamers. But regardless, the point is not about whether a sales bump would happen, but whether the sales bump from adding a few popular characters or modes is going to be worth the resources put into them.
Commenting on the Wii U ports ignores my point (1) that one of the biggest impetuses for porting is getting a game to people who don't already have it. This would not be so much the case going from Ultimate to the next iteration. MK8 is barely relevant since the new content added to that game is dwarfed by most of the common suggestions for added content for Ultimate; all it says is that they're willing to add to a game well after its initial release, which is something but not anything close to what most "Ultimate DX" advocates are hoping for. No, what people are hoping for is, well, basically all the things that come with a brand new game except with the unreasonable expectation that everything already here can or should just be continually copied over to the next iteration without being significantly updated or reevaluated.

Nintendo multiple times touted the massive sales of Smash DLC in their financial reports. In 2020 for instance they showed how it was one of their largest sources of revenue. If anything, you are understating the size Smash has grown to. Smash Ultimate as of last counting sold over 27 million units. That’s almost more than Brawl, Melee, and Smash 4 Wii U combined. People were willing to pay 55 dollars for both fighters passes. If only 10% of the ultimate audience bought only the two passes, that’s almost $150,000,000 in revenue (note: this is assuming USD and a stable conversion rate across all currencies). That is not taking into account people who only bought one pass, individual characters, or Mii Costumes. This is also a conservative estimate. Odds are, ultimates DLC alone did even better than this admittedly conservative estimate.

Now, is part of that due to just the install base being big? Sure, but it’s also the culture that smash has built around it. Smash has become this massive celebration of gaming, where whatever character comes in will have a portion of the audience excited. This is the community that got excited over Plant being added. This is where Joker’s smash reveal was the keynote announcement of the VGA’s. Where Sephiroth’s was one of the opening announcements the next year. Big announcements like Steve caused such a deafening amount of hype. Nintendo knows how to please the crowd and hype up their game.

One other thing you miss is that putting third party picks like say Halo in is a good move to introduce smash to new audiences. The hype that Terry, Steve, or Joker for instance brought from their communities was big. I know transitional fighting game fans who were ecstatic Terry was in. I know people who bought smash ultimate just to play as Steve. I know JRPG fans who do not like smash who gave it a spin due to Joker. Smash also introduces other people to those games. Think of how beloved games like Three Houses, Persona 5, or Bayonetta 2 have become because smash helped shine a spotlight on them. Smash does wonders for advertising and bringing in new people both to itself and the games it advertises.

Finally, you bring up that people have unreasonable expectations for an Ultimate deluxe. I’d argue Ultimate Deluxe is honestly one of the most reasonable takes you can have so long as you do not expect the moon. For starters, economically Ultimate Deluxe makes a ton of sense. We know that Smash sold like hot cakes both in terms of DLC and in terms of game sales. Nintendo is going to want to have a new smash game on their next system. Using Ultimate as a base honestly makes sense to save money.You have a well balanced roster that is well animated. Why spend money and resources redoing all that from the ground up when you could just port it? Consumer wise it also makes sense to pander to the base and do an Ult Deluxe. Ult as I said above sold over 27 million copies. It’s clear people love it and I doubt Nintendo especially nowadays wants to rock the boat that much. Nintendo also has historically wanted a new smash ready for its next system within the first few years. Since melee, Nintendo has shot for smash launches early within a systems lifespan. Nintendo could easily have their next system out by 2024-2025. Why risk not having a killer app within reason for your system when you could just do Ult Deluxe alongside another big first party release? For Nintendo, Ult Deluxe makes the most sense and is just the path of least resistance to them.

If you are talking about fan expectations, that’s trickier. I’d say that EiH is much more likely to continue than the thanos snap to third parties and the roster in general some people like you want, or that it’s pointless and unrealistic to think that the roster needs reevaluation because characters like Corrin or Incineroar made it in but that’s beside the point. Even if we would have Ult Deluxe meet the bare minimum for a port with Sakurai at the helm at launch, it would still probably do well. If it had say a conservative number of newcomers (let’s say 6-8 unique newcomers going off the development for Ult with EiH and having to make the cut characters from the ground up), some new stages, changes to classic modes after the DLC and new characters, and improved online, it would still get a ton of hype. You could easily have more newcomers, new single player modes, or what have you. Assuming the worst case scenario of small single player expansions that only happen to accommodate the new characters, some new characters and stages, and a vastly superior online, it would still sell amazingly and generate hype. I think those are very conservative expectations for going into an Ult Deluxe. You could easily have more content since they do not need to focus resources on recreating characters or animations.

Letting Nintendo or Sakurai use Ultimate as a canvas for the next game honestly is a best case scenario overall. The overwhelming majority of fans will be happy their favorite characters are back to fight new favorites. Sakurai gets to please fans and has less work by not having to recreate animations or assets, letting him focus his creative energy towards new content. Nintendo gets to save money and resources while pushing the game out. I know you might have issues with ultimate because it has transitioned away from the outdated Nintendo all star mindset, but it’s clear both from sales and the discourse around smash as a whole that idea is in its death throes. Smash has transitioned into becoming one of if not the greatest crossover in gaming. I know in the past you threw a fit over “irrelevant” characters like Corrin or Incineroar being in the roster. While you might not like those characters, you have to accept that your view on the roster is fringe at best. Sakurai does not actively look through the roster culling characters no longer relevant. Neither does Nintendo. You are obviously entitled to your fringe and unpopular beliefs, but you don’t get the right to call Ult Deluxe unrealistic when much of what you actively talk about in terms of the direction of smash is far more unrealistic.

 

[dream1ng]

It's not essential that a game like Ultimate DX come with new characters to still be a financial windfall, but literally everyone, from the fans to the devs to the marketing to the execs know the fighters are the lifeblood of the series, they firmly drive engagement, and even by expanding the count minimally they can exponentially increase the traction of the game when compared to a cut-and-dry-port for a proportionately small cost.

It is certainly not inconceivable that if a deluxe version one day materializes, it is simply a DLC complete copy. However, the argument for more content, even and maybe particularly just a small amount more, is very grounded and very plausible. Certainly not one that can be dismissed as merely idealizing.

Smash and its characters receive special treatment from Nintendo above almost all other series (be it promotion, longevity, investment, etc.) because they know where the sausage is made. Smash reveals, if substantial enough, hijack the pop culture discourse. This would be an extension of that.

This is, of course, if there even is an Ultimate DX that happens, which I don't think is an outcome as likely as many seem to, but that's another conversation.

 

[Chuderz]

They wouldn't have to call it Ultimate DX. That's just a helpful shorthand for us fans.

It could be called anything. An Ultimate DX could go for another synonym for fight like Melee and Brawl such as Clash or my personal favorite RIOT! Or do the Japanese/western titles meshed together as somebody has already proposed. Even a simple "Super Smash Bros. Ultra-Ultimate" would suffice well I think. Maybe even something more silly like Ultramate haha.

I personally don't want an Ultimate DX unless it's worked on like a true Smash 6 for the successor console. Anything less than that is when I'll pass and just take the ground-up game everyone's talking about. I really think it needs to happen at least for this go-around. You can do the ground-up restart at any point in the franchise whereas you only get the chance to do Ultimate DX like a true Smash 6 just this once and I sure do hope Sakurai and Nintendo sees it like that.

 

[Sucumbio]

"Hey, paisanos! It's the Super Smash Brothers Super Ultimate Show!"

 

[Stratos]

Some Amiibo of some characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate have not been released yet and may be released for the next game in the Super Smash Bros. series, of course I neither write nor say for sure, it is just a theory.

 

[Simnm]

They wouldn't have to call it Ultimate DX. That's just a helpful shorthand for us fans.

It could be called anything. An Ultimate DX could go for another synonym for fight like Melee and Brawl such as Clash or my personal favorite RIOT! Or do the Japanese/western titles meshed together as somebody has already proposed. Even a simple "Super Smash Bros. Ultra-Ultimate" would suffice well I think. Maybe even something more silly like Ultramate haha.

I personally don't want an Ultimate DX unless it's worked on like a true Smash 6 for the successor console. Anything less than that is when I'll pass and just take the ground-up game everyone's talking about. I really think it needs to happen at least for this go-around. You can do the ground-up restart at any point in the franchise whereas you only get the chance to do Ultimate DX like a true Smash 6 just this once and I sure do hope Sakurai and Nintendo sees it like that.

Honestly i doubt that they will call it riot
Maybe they will call it like omega or infinite or something like that

 

[Diddy Kong]

Porting Smash Ultimate in general isn't a bad idea because well, it's the game with THE most content and overall most satisfying roster, gameplay, and even balance.

A port could give them time to say, fix the online, and bring back old stuff from the past. I'll keep saying it, cause to me it seems like a genius idea.

It has been said many a time, what Smash game could topple Ultimate ? Nothing so far, but Ultimate "Deluxe" could.

It's definitely a better business idea than going for a "reboot" , especially since you know, all the other platform fighting games coming out. Not that I ever doubt Smash will be bested, cause it won't.

If Mario Kart can do it, Smash can too. It's really that simple.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I personally don't want an Ultimate DX unless it's worked on like a true Smash 6 for the successor console

"I personally don't want something that'd be cheap unless it'd be something that'd actually have a budget"

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Porting Smash Ultimate in general isn't a bad idea because well, it's the game with THE most content and overall most satisfying roster, gameplay, and even balance.

A port could give them time to say, fix the online, and bring back old stuff from the past. I'll keep saying it, cause to me it seems like a genius idea.

It has been said many a time, what Smash game could topple Ultimate ? Nothing so far, but Ultimate "Deluxe" could.

It's definitely a better business idea than going for a "reboot" , especially since you know, all the other platform fighting games coming out. Not that I ever doubt Smash will be bested, cause it won't.

If Mario Kart can do it, Smash can too. It's really that simple.

This.

If anything, rebooting Smash hard is a super huge risk. For starters, the number of people asking for a hard reboot is not that big. If anything, sales numbers show that Ultimate and its model is something the greater public approves of. After how much Smash has taken hold in gaming culture as a whole over the past 15 or so years since Brawl was announced, do you really think Nintendo sees the need for a hard reset when the series is on the up and up? The people asking for a massive trim of the roster usually are the kind of people complaining that third parties like Joker or Terry or Sora "stole" their character slots. They are the kind of people that insist on cuts, but when you press them on it you will likely hear the same exact things: Corrin, Incineroar, and some third parties. Its a niche, angry group that tends to post in this thread a lot. If yall go outside of Smashboards, you can find the number of people that want that are slim to none.

 

[Delzethin]

Thing is...realistically, we're at a point where Smash can't keep building up higher any longer. Ultimate's roster is enormous by fighting game standards--just bringing everyone back from the first four games strained the devs so much that the base game had hardly any new content (only 6 non-clone newcomers and 4 new stages; Smash 4's base game had 12 non-clone newcomers + the Miis and over 40 new stages), and now there's even more of everything. Ultimate's DLC added 12 more fighters and 11 stages, all of which would require updates for the next game to keep around. To say no less of how many guest fighters Ultimate has--third party licensing is a mess of red tape itself that requires extra steps for every part of the process, and we have so many now that the process is magnified tenfold. The resources and man-hours required to keep everything--or just most things--is no longer sustainable.

Sure, it'd be mind-blowing to build the spectacle further...but we need to keep our expectations grounded. Hell, we don't even know if a port of Ultimate can be done because of the aforementioned third party licensing--I believe the option to release an updated version would've had to be part of the original contracts (Can someone verify this?).

The series is at a point where it can't keep building upward any further without risking serious problems on the development side...but there are still ways to make a compelling game that don't require that. All Smash 6 needs to do is find enough ways to build alongside Ultimate and be a breath of fresh enough air on its own terms to be worth playing.

Even if up to half of the current roster has to sit out just to keep the project manageable.

 

[Ivander]

And aside from that EVERY Wii U port has come with significant new content.

Would certainly be nice if Nintendo Land, Xenoblade X and Star Fox Zero got included so we could see what new content would be in those.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Would certainly be nice if Nintendo Land, Xenoblade X and Star Fox Zero got included so we could see what new content would be in those.

The new content in SFZ is that the game is actually playable.

 

[Stratos]

Unfortunately for the characters, some of the veterans will have to leave for others to come in Super Smash Bros. 6. The same goes for the stages unfortunately.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Would certainly be nice if Nintendo Land, Xenoblade X and Star Fox Zero got included so we could see what new content would be in those.

Okay, hear me out: Star Fox Zero is a remake of Star Fox, right? Add in a second story mode that's a remake of Star Fox 2.

Hey, Star Fox 2 is no longer vaporware, it could work.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I do wonder if there would be the possibility, with backwards compatibility, for Smash Ultimate to just get a DLC update on the next system. I'm not sure if that would still be treated as a port because of the new system or if it would count as a loophole, since it wouldn't change the initial package at all. I could see Nintendo continually printing this one Switch game and placing something on the packaging that says, "yes, this also works on Switch 2." I could see people coming back for it, especially if they didn't need to double dip. The biggest problems I see with the idea are the potential legal hurdles (which may or may not exist) and the lack of flexibility to alter existing content (like online). There's also the problem of new people who would have to shell out probably $150 to get the full package.

Admittedly, the DLC idea is more of a hypothetical for me than a wish. I would prefer a new game with new mechanics. Ultimate is a good game, but there are parts of its gameplay I don't like, and I don't know if the game could hold me for over a decade. I see people claiming that the desire for something new is about getting the "right" characters, but for me it's the underlying skeleton of the thing. I'd be happy for other people for getting what they want with a port, and maybe there is a way to do it, but for someone like me who wants a game that drives a bit differently there isn't a lot an enhanced port would provide.

 

[Sucumbio]

I do wonder if there would be the possibility, with backwards compatibility, for Smash Ultimate to just get a DLC update on the next system. I'm not sure if that would still be treated as a port because of the new system or if it would count as a loophole, since it wouldn't change the initial package at all. I could see Nintendo continually printing this one Switch game and placing something on the packaging that says, "yes, this also works on Switch 2." I could see people coming back for it, especially if they didn't need to double dip. The biggest problems I see with the idea are the potential legal hurdles (which may or may not exist) and the lack of flexibility to alter existing content (like online). There's also the problem of new people who would have to shell out probably $150 to get the full package.

Admittedly, the DLC idea is more of a hypothetical for me than a wish. I would prefer a new game with new mechanics. Ultimate is a good game, but there are parts of its gameplay I don't like, and I don't know if the game could hold me for over a decade. I see people claiming that the desire for something new is about getting the "right" characters, but for me it's the underlying skeleton of the thing. I'd be happy for other people for getting what they want with a port, and maybe there is a way to do it, but for someone like me who wants a game that drives a bit differently there isn't a lot an enhanced port would provide.

It's interesting to think about - this notion of a Port of Ultimate to a backwards compatible next generation console. Like someone else mentioned why bother porting it if the system can play the old version? Another take is that Nintendo like other game companies isn't above just pandering to the EIH crowd by extending the life of Ultimate through a 3rd fighters pass. Or rebranding the same game with original passes included and adding the 3rd or more...


There's so many... Wants. People want the full Ultimate roster, plus even more characters, plus legacy modes... It's a lot to ask. They're sure to make another game eventually, just as they're sure to make another console eventually, but I think a lot of this depends on what the system will be, if it will be backwards compatible, if it'll be a hybrid mobile system again. Once we know that the pieces will fall better into place on what exactly we can expect for a new smash game. One the one hand a new console that isn't able play switch games to me sounds like a death knell to the hopes of an Ultimate Smash Deluxe. But if it is, then to me it makes sense to reward existing customers with a 3rd pass and introduce new customers with an updated release which includes the original DLC as base roster - for a higher price so the 3rd party companies can still make their cut.

I dunno there's too many if's right now to wrap my head around these potential scenerios.

 

[Chuderz]

"I personally don't want something that'd be cheap unless it'd be something that'd actually have a budget"

Yes, indeed.

Ultimate DX can be anywhere from a meager update to a true Smash 6. I want the concept to meet its greatest potential because I think it's basically the game the fanbase has been dreaming about since Brawl. Why not give fans what they want?

It conserves resources already so I really don't want it to do the bare minimum with what it has. I don't think that's contradictory.

 

[Gengar84]

Thing is...realistically, we're at a point where Smash can't keep building up higher any longer. Ultimate's roster is enormous by fighting game standards--just bringing everyone back from the first four games strained the devs so much that the base game had hardly any new content (only 6 non-clone newcomers and 4 new stages; Smash 4's base game had 12 non-clone newcomers + the Miis and over 40 new stages), and now there's even more of everything. Ultimate's DLC added 12 more fighters and 11 stages, all of which would require updates for the next game to keep around. To say no less of how many guest fighters Ultimate has--third party licensing is a mess of red tape itself that requires extra steps for every part of the process, and we have so many now that the process is magnified tenfold. The resources and man-hours required to keep everything--or just most things--is no longer sustainable.

Sure, it'd be mind-blowing to build the spectacle further...but we need to keep our expectations grounded. Hell, we don't even know if a port of Ultimate can be done because of the aforementioned third party licensing--I believe the option to release an updated version would've had to be part of the original contracts (Can someone verify this?).

The series is at a point where it can't keep building upward any further without risking serious problems on the development side...but there are still ways to make a compelling game that don't require that. All Smash 6 needs to do is find enough ways to build alongside Ultimate and be a breath of fresh enough air on its own terms to be worth playing.

Even if up to half of the current roster has to sit out just to keep the project manageable.

That’s going to be the tricky part. I honestly don’t see any path forward that won’t end up disappointing a huge amount of fans. On one hand, we build from the ground up with a whole new game but end up with a likely much smaller roster. We would probably get the most new content and base game newcomers this way but a lot of people would lose their current favorites. Another issue with a smaller roster that no one ever brings up is it basically kills any chance of smaller third party guest characters. Personally, I’m having a hard time imagining this as anything but a downgrade from Ultimate at this point.

On the other hand, we get a port of Ultimate with barely any new content base game. This would also be disappointing for anyone hoping for something fresh. Veterans like Ganondorf, Sonic, Samus, Lucario and Donkey Kong will likely be left mostly unchanged when they could all use some updates to make them more true to their characters.

Personally, I think the only real path forward other than to just iterate on Ultimate is to take Smash in a completely different direction. Otherwise, I feel like it will always be viewed as a lesser Ultimate. I have a pretty wild idea that I don’t think many here will be on board with at first but it could be really exciting if pulled off well. The next Smash could be a Nintendo vs Microsoft crossover game released simultaneously on the Switch’s successor and X-Box Series X. The starting roster would only need to be around 40-50 characters (about half of Ultimate’s) split evenly between Nintendo and Microsoft reps. I think the hype of a multi platform crossover like this would probably be enough to reduce the disappointment of a smaller overall roster. It would also be much easier to negotiate since all of the third party characters would be owned by a single company.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Thing is...realistically, we're at a point where Smash can't keep building up higher any longer. Ultimate's roster is enormous by fighting game standards--just bringing everyone back from the first four games strained the devs so much that the base game had hardly any new content (only 6 non-clone newcomers and 4 new stages; Smash 4's base game had 12 non-clone newcomers + the Miis and over 40 new stages), and now there's even more of everything. Ultimate's DLC added 12 more fighters and 11 stages, all of which would require updates for the next game to keep around. To say no less of how many guest fighters Ultimate has--third party licensing is a mess of red tape itself that requires extra steps for every part of the process, and we have so many now that the process is magnified tenfold. The resources and man-hours required to keep everything--or just most things--is no longer sustainable.

I find this argument is super disingenuous.

First off, Ultimate did have a lot of content that was made from the ground up. Almost half of the stages that were brought back, even if they were from past games, were made from scratch. Making a stage like Fourside or Great Bay in modern graphics is just as much of an endeavor as making a new stage. Taking away the N64 stages that were purposefully not upscaled, thats 50 stages that were ready at launch that were not in Wii U. This is not including how Big Battlefield, Battlefield, and Final Destination were redesigned and look different as well. Was all the content new? No, but easily an argument as to why some new locations were not chosen was that there was really nothing that important to show a new stage of. Smash as a series chooses its stages based on what is happening in the relative recent past of when it was planned out. While this was true in Melee, it was even more true in every game going forward. There is a reason Brawl has tons of Gamecube era stages like Delphino Plaza, Rumble Falls, Frigate Orpheon, Bridge of Eldin, Pirate Ship, or Luigi's Mansion. There is a reason that Smash 4 Wii U and 3DS pull hard from the DS and Wii eras for stages as well. Look at the Wii U and late 3ds era. It was notoriously a rough time to be a Nintendo fan, there was basically nothing to rep. Maybe you could make the case Pokemon Gen 7 or Xenoblade X could have gotten a stage, but even then its slim pickings. Just because the content is not new does not mean that there was not a ton of resources and effort put in that direction.

Furthermore, we got seven cut veterans, with the only ones we know of having any work done on them were Icies. 7 cut veterans, 6 newcomers, Plant almost done in time for launch. Once again, was all the content new? Heavens no, but once again you can't handwave that that is where resources went. We probably could have gotten anywhere from 8-13 unique newcomers at launch if they did not lean into EiH, but they did because they knew that was what fans want. Its not like we got a paltry number of fighters that were not in Smash 4. 7 cut vets, beefed up for the modern era. Characters like Young Link and Pichu now feel different enough from their source characters. That is not including the unique ones we got who already were great but were given that new fresh coat of paint. 6 newcomers, with one that has heavy signs of being meant for the base game and narrowly missed it. Also five echo fighters, two of which are distinct enough you can easily say they effectively count as newcomers too with Chrom and Ken. Yes, they were clones, but they were some of the best done clones the series has ever gotten. They take the base characters tools and change them up enough to make them feel distinct and fresh: clearly inspired by their base character but enough that you have your own different experience.

Finally, you completely disregard the amount of stuff we got outside of characters and stages. A ton more Assist Trophies and Pokeballs. An entire new mode in spirits that offers a new way to play the game while also looking at Nintendo and gaming's history. An entire adventure mode with boss fights that people notably were asking for since Smash 4 did not provide that. Individualized classic modes, something the fanbase was asking for for years. A beefed up training mode. Its not like Ultimate launched with a barebones amount of content outside of the multiplayer modes. If anything, it has offered the strongest single player experience in the series so far.

All of this was done with Smash Wii U as a base and about 2 and a half years of development in earnest. While development began on the day of the final smash direct, it went on in earnest in April 2016. In that time period, we got the following.

• 50 stages not in the previous game remastered in HD, 53 if you count the redesigns to Big Battlefield, Battlefield, and Final Destination
• Six new characters, with a seventh that has overwhelming evidence of originally being planned for the base game
• Five echo fighters, two of which distinct enough from their base fighter that they are counted separately in competitive from their base fighters.
• Seven cut veterans, five of which unique and two of which that got decloned just enough to make them feel distinct.
• The biggest Solo player experience that Smash has ever offered with a new adventure mode, individualized classic modes, 1300+ spirits to collect at the games launch, new boss fights to experience, and more

Was all this content new? No, but you are acting like bringing everyone back was this massive undertaking that caused Ultimate to be this bare bones game when it is the beefiest smash game to date with a short development time to boot. If you just use Ultimate as a base like they did for Smash Wii U previously, you have access to save so much time on resources. If they were able to add that much content coming from Smash Wii U, I think it is not out of the question they could easily have a noticeable amount of content in a Ultimate Deluxe.

Also, the whole issue with third party licensing seems to be overblown. All the companies in Smash rn are playing nice with Nintendo, so I do not see a scenario where a significant number of them do not play nice in the future. Sure, Konami might be erratic on a good day. Sure, Disney is evil. But Smash makes a lot of money. Smash Ultimate was the biggest fighting game of all time. It is one of the biggest fighting game series of all time. Money greases the wheels after all.

 

[Yamat08]

TCT~Phantom, you make some great points, but I gotta stop you on a couple things.

Also five echo fighters, two of which are distinct enough you can easily say they effectively count as newcomers too with Chrom and Ken. Yes, they were clones, but they were some of the best done clones the series has ever gotten. They take the base characters tools and change them up enough to make them feel distinct and fresh: clearly inspired by their base character but enough that you have your own different experience.

Chrom re-used the exact same model from Robin's Final Smash. Programming-wise, he doesn't seem very complicated either, just being Roy without the fire effects and inserting Ike's Up-B. He was very much a budget character. Granted, having a different Up-B does set him apart as a clone, but among the best in the series? I mean, Brawl arguably having nothing but semi-clones seems like a pretty high bar there.

• The biggest Solo player experience that Smash has ever offered with a new adventure mode, individualized classic modes, 1300+ spirits to collect at the games launch, new boss fights to experience, and more

Quantity over quality, though. I still maintain that, while Ultimate has a LOT you can do, it's dragged down significantly by its sheer lack of variety. That said, I don't think having a large number of Spirits is particularly worth boasting about. Keep in mind, they had foregone having trophies this time around, and while there's a lot more Spirits than there were trophies in previous games, they still seem extremely simple to do. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if fan modders could make a Spirit editor, allowing you to set some conditions for a battle and insert some PNG file within less than a minute (for all I know, they probably already did so, but I don't look into the modding community that much). Compare that to the work of making a 3D model for a trophy, or even importing an existing 3D model from another game. Even so, I do appreciate that Spirits have at least some kind of gameplay purpose at all, whereas trophies were literally just collectibles meant to be viewed in a gallery separate from the main game.

But yes, I really don't think it'd be hard to build off of Ultimate. Sakurai said that there was a small number of newcomers due to EIH, but as you pointed out, those numbers are fudged a bit given the number of veterans that weren't in Smash4 who essentially had to be built from the ground up (to say nothing of all the tweaks to Smash4 veterans), and especially the returning HD stages. I can't say how much tinkering needs to be done to simply port over old assets (and I wouldn't underestimate the fact that competitive fighting games require a delicate balancing process), but considering what Ultimate could accomplish with only a 2.5 year development cycle, I get the impression that Sakurai was just paying lip service for the most part. Could EIH reach a point of unsustainability? Possibly, though it ultimately comes down to how much time and money is willing to be put into keeping it (and with any luck, Smash doesn't just pull a Pokemon, cheaping out in both quantity and quality because they wanted to rush out a new title so damn badly..... in fact, Sora Ltd. has a fairly different work ethic from The Pokemon Company in general).

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I find this argument is super disingenuous.

First off, Ultimate did have a lot of content that was made from the ground up. Almost half of the stages that were brought back, even if they were from past games, were made from scratch. Making a stage like Fourside or Great Bay in modern graphics is just as much of an endeavor as making a new stage. Taking away the N64 stages that were purposefully not upscaled, thats 50 stages that were ready at launch that were not in Wii U. This is not including how Big Battlefield, Battlefield, and Final Destination were redesigned and look different as well. Was all the content new? No, but easily an argument as to why some new locations were not chosen was that there was really nothing that important to show a new stage of. Smash as a series chooses its stages based on what is happening in the relative recent past of when it was planned out. While this was true in Melee, it was even more true in every game going forward. There is a reason Brawl has tons of Gamecube era stages like Delphino Plaza, Rumble Falls, Frigate Orpheon, Bridge of Eldin, Pirate Ship, or Luigi's Mansion. There is a reason that Smash 4 Wii U and 3DS pull hard from the DS and Wii eras for stages as well. Look at the Wii U and late 3ds era. It was notoriously a rough time to be a Nintendo fan, there was basically nothing to rep. Maybe you could make the case Pokemon Gen 7 or Xenoblade X could have gotten a stage, but even then its slim pickings. Just because the content is not new does not mean that there was not a ton of resources and effort put in that direction.

Furthermore, we got seven cut veterans, with the only ones we know of having any work done on them were Icies. 7 cut veterans, 6 newcomers, Plant almost done in time for launch. Once again, was all the content new? Heavens no, but once again you can't handwave that that is where resources went. We probably could have gotten anywhere from 8-13 unique newcomers at launch if they did not lean into EiH, but they did because they knew that was what fans want. Its not like we got a paltry number of fighters that were not in Smash 4. 7 cut vets, beefed up for the modern era. Characters like Young Link and Pichu now feel different enough from their source characters. That is not including the unique ones we got who already were great but were given that new fresh coat of paint. 6 newcomers, with one that has heavy signs of being meant for the base game and narrowly missed it. Also five echo fighters, two of which are distinct enough you can easily say they effectively count as newcomers too with Chrom and Ken. Yes, they were clones, but they were some of the best done clones the series has ever gotten. They take the base characters tools and change them up enough to make them feel distinct and fresh: clearly inspired by their base character but enough that you have your own different experience.

Finally, you completely disregard the amount of stuff we got outside of characters and stages. A ton more Assist Trophies and Pokeballs. An entire new mode in spirits that offers a new way to play the game while also looking at Nintendo and gaming's history. An entire adventure mode with boss fights that people notably were asking for since Smash 4 did not provide that. Individualized classic modes, something the fanbase was asking for for years. A beefed up training mode. Its not like Ultimate launched with a barebones amount of content outside of the multiplayer modes. If anything, it has offered the strongest single player experience in the series so far.

All of this was done with Smash Wii U as a base and about 2 and a half years of development in earnest. While development began on the day of the final smash direct, it went on in earnest in April 2016. In that time period, we got the following.

• 50 stages not in the previous game remastered in HD, 53 if you count the redesigns to Big Battlefield, Battlefield, and Final Destination
• Six new characters, with a seventh that has overwhelming evidence of originally being planned for the base game
• Five echo fighters, two of which distinct enough from their base fighter that they are counted separately in competitive from their base fighters.
• Seven cut veterans, five of which unique and two of which that got decloned just enough to make them feel distinct.
• The biggest Solo player experience that Smash has ever offered with a new adventure mode, individualized classic modes, 1300+ spirits to collect at the games launch, new boss fights to experience, and more

Was all this content new? No, but you are acting like bringing everyone back was this massive undertaking that caused Ultimate to be this bare bones game when it is the beefiest smash game to date with a short development time to boot. If you just use Ultimate as a base like they did for Smash Wii U previously, you have access to save so much time on resources. If they were able to add that much content coming from Smash Wii U, I think it is not out of the question they could easily have a noticeable amount of content in a Ultimate Deluxe.

Also, the whole issue with third party licensing seems to be overblown. All the companies in Smash rn are playing nice with Nintendo, so I do not see a scenario where a significant number of them do not play nice in the future. Sure, Konami might be erratic on a good day. Sure, Disney is evil. But Smash makes a lot of money. Smash Ultimate was the biggest fighting game of all time. It is one of the biggest fighting game series of all time. Money greases the wheels after all.

I think the biggest sacrifices Ultimate had to make were with the game balance. A lot of characters had complexity removed so they could be balanced easier against the 70-something other characters at the time. A few, like Ness, gained complexity through a beefed up moveset or rebalancing options that were once near-universal (down-throw -> up/forward-air), but a lot of moves with unique applications were simplified and restricted. Attacks with low endlag were given more endlag, cancellable moves were made uncancellable. Most things that deviated from the norm were made normal. This kind of design philosophy will only increase as a roster grows. To a degree, I agree that the amount of work making the next game large could be a non-issue in terms of assets, but I do think the design work could become a real problem.

The thing with licensing seems to me to be more about that money wheel than anything. If you stick 10-plus third party partners into a base game you sell for $60, then the profit pie gets spread thinner. The other companies are very likely to cooperate, but they will want compensation. Nintendo would want to make money, too, but their profit is going to shrink with each third party added. The question is whether Nintendo, with the revenue being split, will still see the venture as profitable. If we are honest, we don't know the answer to that one way or the other. We don't know how much licenses cost. We don't know how much development costs. We don't know how much more they make over what they spend. It is very possible they could crunch the numbers and say it isn't worth it. They also could do the same and say it is, or that there is an asterisk. But we don't have that information; only Nintendo does. And as such, we don't really know if the licensing factor is overblown or understated. But it is certainly a bigger deal for an Ultimate DX or Ultimate 2 than for base Ultimate, and that's why people bring it up.

Chrom re-used the exact same model from Robin's Final Smash. Programming-wise, he doesn't seem very complicated either, just being Roy without the fire effects and inserting Ike's Up-B. He was very much a budget character. Granted, having a different Up-B does set him apart as a clone, but among the best in the series? I mean, Brawl arguably having nothing but semi-clones seems like a pretty high bar there.

A small thing, but Chrom does use a normal grip instead of Roy's reverse grip, so he did have most of his animations partially redone. His up-B also isn't identical to Ike's, since he doesn't throw the sword. Small nitpick, but it's worth mentioning.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The thing with licensing seems to me to be more about that money wheel than anything. If you stick 10-plus third party partners into a base game you sell for $60, then the profit pie gets spread thinner. The other companies are very likely to cooperate, but they will want compensation. Nintendo would want to make money, too, but their profit is going to shrink with each third party added. The question is whether Nintendo, with the revenue being split, will still see the venture as profitable. If we are honest, we don't know the answer to that one way or the other. We don't know how much licenses cost. We don't know how much development costs. We don't know how much more they make over what they spend. It is very possible they could crunch the numbers and say it isn't worth it. They also could do the same and say it is, or that there is an asterisk. But we don't have that information; only Nintendo does. And as such, we don't really know if the licensing factor is overblown or understated. But it is certainly a bigger deal for an Ultimate DX or Ultimate 2 than for base Ultimate, and that's why people bring it up.

Also, don't forget that many people speculate that Cloud was someone Nintendo had to fight to put into the base game, and that Sephiroth was something they had to do in order for FFVII to have music and spirits.

Now imagine having to do that with four Square-Enix characters from three franchises if that's true.

 

[Arcanir]

Also, the whole issue with third party licensing seems to be overblown. All the companies in Smash rn are playing nice with Nintendo, so I do not see a scenario where a significant number of them do not play nice in the future. Sure, Konami might be erratic on a good day. Sure, Disney is evil. But Smash makes a lot of money. Smash Ultimate was the biggest fighting game of all time. It is one of the biggest fighting game series of all time. Money greases the wheels after all.

They play nice now, but what's to say they will in the future? What if we get another Konami incident and at least one of the companies burn all of their bridges. What if we have a Square Enix where the relationship breaks down because one side goes in a direction the other doesn't like? What if the consolidation we're seeing with gaming companies causes a shift in the relationship that can't be mended?

The problem with this point is that it's grounded in the present and assumes nothing will majorly shift in the future. No one would've guessed Konami would implode and leave Snake out of luck for Smash 4 back in Brawl, but that happened and we can't pretend it's not a possibility. It's also ignoring that we don't know how the negotiations all went for every single character. There could've been more disagreements, stresses, and other issues that we may not know about that could get worse with time.

At the end of the day there's always going to be risks with working with an outside party and that can affect the possibility of keeping every character, and that's ignoring all of the developmental headaches with keeping and balancing nearly 100 characters. Money does talk, but even it can only do so much, and we have to consider the possibility that some things can't pan out even with the best effort. If even Sakurai has his doubts, then we shouldn't take it lightly.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The monster sprites look decent but I’d argue the rest of the game including the overworld and character sprites look much better in Super Mario RPG.

Sure, but, monster sprites and spell effects is traditionally where Square puts all it's actual artistic effort during the SNES era. So that's how I just their game's looks from that era.

Did somebody knock you out? lol

And stole my change!

Maybe give it the Octopath treatment? I've only played smrgp in bits and pieces and don't exactly recall being floored by its aesthetics, but Octopath is frankly beautiful to look at even if the sprites were low res on purpose...

That art style doesn't really seem suited to SMRPG's whimsical setting.

If you're going to give it a new art style, I still say use the one that's worked so well with all the subsequent Mario RPGs. Paper Mario.

Third party support for the systems have been lacking, thats for true. I would love to see stuff like Chrono Trigger, Mega Man X, and more. My guess is licensing is hard for these games but idk.

With Square, it's that they don't give their games away like that, because they know they can resell them.

Like, FF 1-6 ALL could have been on Nintendo Online. But instead Square was just, like, "Nah, we'll just remake and resell them."

Thing is...realistically, we're at a point where Smash can't keep building up higher any longer.

There's literally no reason it can't.

 

[Shroob]

The future of Smash will be interesting, if nothing else.


I don't expect anything for awhile, which is a reasonable belief to have.



While I do want an Ultimate DX, I kinda think next game will just cut a few and go about its day, it won't be the drastic reboot like some speculate on, it'll probably be just another Smash game.


Will it live up to Ultimate? Prooooooobably not? It's hard to say since, ya know, speculating on the future, but, who can say at this point.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ultimate Deluxe is probably the best chance to keep characters as Snake, Sora and the Square characters in honestly. As negotiations where already made for Ultimate so there's a bigger chance they could stick around. Not that I care too much for them at all, but just saying.

I'm especially not feeling too confident about Snake and Sora. All others should be relatively safe.

There's bound to be some change in the first party roster if there's a new game that's not Ultimate Deluxe, or a total reboot. I'm especially thinking the rosters of the Pokemon, Fire Emblem and even Zelda franchises will change considerably, keeping only the biggest important namesakes, and add in new additions. Everyone who's a Echo, clone or semi clone could be on the chopping block. 🪓

 

[Guynamednelson]

As negotiations where already made for Ultimate so there's a bigger chance they could stick around

They were only made for Ultimate on the Switch, not any future Nintendo systems.

 

[Chuderz]

If I could slightly alter Ultimate just a tad while staying in the realm of realism I'd have dedicated the work put into Piranha Plant into bringing Sukapon's current Assist Trophy into fully playable status. Even as things stand Sukapon already has its model, animations, jumps (though could probably use a distance boost going from AT to fighter), a taunt, airdodge, back-throw, a neutral-special and a side-special that could easily be reused as neutral-air. I imagine that if the work put into Plant could be redirected into Sukapon's direction they'd have been able to achieve this feat. It'd be a very satisfying addition to the weird/retro/legacy rep portion of the roster, fitting in alongside Mr. G&W, Duck Hunt, and ROB very well I believe. I'd imagine the trailer would have reflected this by having Mr. G&W, Duck Hunt Dog, and ROB battling it out with maybe Dr. Mario thrown in there for good measure until Sukapon shows up! I can't think of a cool tagline.

The real issue keeping it from happening would probably be the need for a stage and appropriate remixes. I personally wouldn't have minded if Sukapon didn't get a stage just like ROB but of course having the Smash cast fight in Joy Mech Fight would be an absolute treat. On that note there should definitely be Gyromite stage to act as ROB's stage someday.

 

[Perkilator]

That reminds me; if you could select a bonus fighter and it wasn’t Piranha Plant, who would you go with?

Personally, I’d go with Waluigi.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That reminds me; if you could select a bonus fighter and it wasn’t Piranha Plant, who would you go with?

Personally, I’d go with Waluigi.

Dixie Kong.

 

[osby]

That reminds me; if you could select a bonus fighter and it wasn’t Piranha Plant, who would you go with?

Personally, I’d go with Waluigi.

I think they should've added my personal favorite pick which makes much more sense as a bonus fighter than any other character.

My second personal favorite pick and third personal favorite pick are honorable mentions.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think they should've added my personal favorite pick which makes much more sense as a bonus fighter than any other character.

My second personal favorite pick and third personal favorite pick are honorable mentions.

Reasonable picks. But I prefer my own personal favorites because they're obviously more deserving.