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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Dinoman96

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Quite frankly it's stuff like this why we really need some sort of "Ultimate Deluxe" that has all of the DLC included on the disc.

Because there will be a time when Nintendo is ready to move on fully from the Switch and will shut down everything like what they did or will do with DS, Wii and now Wii U and 3DS.
 

dream1ng

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Quite frankly it's stuff like this why we really need some sort of "Ultimate Deluxe" that has all of the DLC included on the disc.

Because there will be a time when Nintendo is ready to move on fully from the Switch and will shut down everything like what they did or will do with DS, Wii and now Wii U and 3DS.
Until there's then DLC for Ultimate Deluxe lol
 

Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
People say they added Incineroar because of it being good in competitive (which is BS), I say we go full force and add Landorus Thearian.
Landorus alongside Genesect are my most wanted Unova Pokémons playing as a force of nature would be really amazing and bring unique playstyle especially with the fact that he is a ground and flying type which makes good in both the air and ground
It sucks he wasn’t playable in pokken
 
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Lionfranky

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I know Smash 4 isn't relevant anymore, but I think it's gonna become even LESS relevant soon:

People belittled Microsoft's effort on backward compatibility and smart delivery...
 

Staarih

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Now, a week after the Nintendo Direct it dawned on me that the only potential Smash-related thing didn't show up: amiibo. I wonder when Min Min and Steve (+the rest) get confirmed release dates.
 

dream1ng

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Now, a week after the Nintendo Direct it dawned on me that the only potential Smash-related thing didn't show up: amiibo. I wonder when Min Min and Steve (+the rest) get confirmed release dates.
Without any further game developments, this might be the kind of thing they just do a twitter drop for now.
 

DarthEnderX

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I dunno, I think that art style had a certain charm to it. I actually liked the e pre-rendered 3D models from the SNES era.
Barf. Barf! BAAARF!!

The Hisiuan forms for the new starters official art was revealed. Gotta say, they did a knockout job with these three. I know early leaks were lukewarm but the set here is aces.
Decidueye gets a second chance!
 
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Diddy Kong

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I dunno, I think that art style had a certain charm to it. I actually liked the e pre-rendered 3D models from the SNES era. Donkey Kong Country 2 is one of my favorite looking games on the console but I understand that everyone has their own opinion. I could see them going for a clay inspired aesthetic if they want to call back to the look of the original game. That would look pretty cool in my opinion.
Clay is one thing they could do, but I hope they try and go for the most realistic look possible, whilst retraining a cartoony sort of presentation as the other DKC games. Or where you talking SMRPG? In that case I agree.

With Donkey Kong, I do hope they try to aim for something spectacular, graphics wise. They did the same for the SNES DKC games and DK64 after all. One thought I had is them trying to replicate the fur of the Kongs as they aimed for in DKC Returns (shamefully didn't try as much for Tropical Freeze) and close to real life realistic natural environments. Guess this also could be done with a hand drawn style of sorts.

I also think Jungle Beat got the aesthetics of the original Donkey Kong Country games very well. I would also settle for a graphic style like that, with the lush deep environmental graphics of the Retro games.
 

Gengar84

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Clay is one thing they could do, but I hope they try and go for the most realistic look possible, whilst retraining a cartoony sort of presentation as the other DKC games. Or where you talking SMRPG? In that case I agree.

With Donkey Kong, I do hope they try to aim for something spectacular, graphics wise. They did the same for the SNES DKC games and DK64 after all. One thought I had is them trying to replicate the fur of the Kongs as they aimed for in DKC Returns (shamefully didn't try as much for Tropical Freeze) and close to real life realistic natural environments. Guess this also could be done with a hand drawn style of sorts.

I also think Jungle Beat got the aesthetics of the original Donkey Kong Country games very well. I would also settle for a graphic style like that, with the lush deep environmental graphics of the Retro games.
I was talking about Super Mario RPG with the clay aesthetic. I think Tropical Freeze got the graphics pretty much perfect for a modern DK game.
 

Gengar84

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Barf. Barf! BAAARF!!


Decidueye gets a second chance!
To each their own man. I do think the actual 3D games on the SNES like the original StarFox and Stunt Race FX have always looked kind of ugly, even back then. I personally still like the look of the original DKC trilogy. Super Mario RPG is a little awkward looking today but I do think it still has its own charm and I still really appreciate it. I remember being really disappointed by the change in style with the first Paper Mario game at the time.
 

DarthEnderX

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I do think the actual 3D games on the SNES like the original StarFox and Stunt Race FX have always looked kind of ugly, even back then.
Well I definitely agree with that as well. Polygons with no textures looks terrible.

I just think Super Mario RPG is the worst looking thing Square put out on the SNES.
 
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Chuderz

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The argument for supporting emulation just got that much stronger. We honestly need a real solution for the touch screen element of Wii U and the DS/3DS line of games.

It might already exist but what I imagine is having some sort of adaptor joins a touchscreen tablet with your computer and allow for it to act as the bottom screen while your monitor/tv acts as the top screen.

There is absolutely no good reason any of these games should lost and I hope they aren't.

As far as an official solution to this particular line of titles goes I think my suggestion of a cast/Super Switch-Lite touchscreen gimmick for a Switch successor console could be a potential solution here. Link for those interested in what I'm talking about https://smashboards.com/threads/nex...scussion-thread.515747/page-141#post-24651342

I think it's all the more important now for Nintendo to incorporate touch screen controls into their next system in some way and I think I've hypothesized the most accessible solution that also manages to maximize sales of Switch systems and Switch-Lites alike.
 

Gengar84

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Well I definitely agree with that as well. Polygons with no textures looks terrible.

I just think Super Mario RPG is the worst looking thing Square put out on the SNES.
I’m not sure how that quote got attributed to TCT Phantom lol.

I would argue that Final Fantasy IV is the worst looking Square game I can think of for the SNES. It looked like an NES game (probably because it began development as one). To be fair, I didn’t get into JRPGs until late in the PS1’s life so I’m not familiar with all of Square’s older games. I think Chrono Cross was the first JRPG I really got into but I did try to go back and play some of their notable older games.
 
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chocolatejr9

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The argument for supporting emulation just got that much stronger. We honestly need a real solution for the touch screen element of Wii U and the DS/3DS line of games.

It might already exist but what I imagine is having some sort of adaptor joins a touchscreen tablet with your computer and allow for it to act as the bottom screen while your monitor/tv acts as the top screen.

There is absolutely no good reason any of these games should lost and I hope they aren't.

As far as an official solution to this particular line of titles goes I think my suggestion of a cast/Super Switch-Lite touchscreen gimmick for a Switch successor console could be a potential solution here. Link for those interested in what I'm talking about https://smashboards.com/threads/nex...scussion-thread.515747/page-141#post-24651342

I think it's all the more important now for Nintendo to incorporate touch screen controls into their next system in some way and I think I've hypothesized the most accessible solution that also manages to maximize sales of Switch systems and Switch-Lites alike.
For what it's worth, here's a thread about why Nintendo is shutting down the eShops:

 

Stratos

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If there's an Adventure Mode in the next Super Smash Bros. game, I can't decide if I want it like The Subspace Emissary or World of Light.
 

Chuderz

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For what it's worth, here's a thread about why Nintendo is shutting down the eShops:

I'm aware of why they're doing it (though I do appreciate the specifics in the thread) it's just game preservation must carry on whether it's an official or unofficial solution. Nintendo should seriously consider/brainstorm an official solution for the next generation of their hardware line.
 

Ivander

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At this rate, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Ultimate gets ported onto the next Nintendo console with new content, whenever that will be.
While it would be nice, at the same time, I actually want some new content to be something that is quite replayable. While the Bosses are great and Spirits and World of Light have good ideas, fighting the bosses as any character feels too restricted and Spirits and World of Light don't feel good to replay.

I still think Smash Run was easily one of the most replayable modes of Smash Bros. just because it never felt the same and it was very enjoyable fighting the enemies from different series with different characters. It just needed Options for choosing how much time you play for, which event you do after the initial run, etc. And I think enemies would've also fit nicely with Spirits, similar to how some Spirit battles had Assist Trophies, and would've allowed some more creative battles.
 

Simnm

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At this rate, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Ultimate gets ported onto the next Nintendo console with new content, whenever that will be.
Well most likely the next nintendo console is gonna be backwards compatible so i dont see the point of doing that
 

Gengar84

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While it would be nice, at the same time, I actually want some new content to be something that is quite replayable. While the Bosses are great and Spirits and World of Light have good ideas, fighting the bosses as any character feels too restricted and Spirits and World of Light don't feel good to replay.

I still think Smash Run was easily one of the most replayable modes of Smash Bros. just because it never felt the same and it was very enjoyable fighting the enemies from different series with different characters. It just needed Options for choosing how much time you play for, which event you do after the initial run, etc. And I think enemies would've also fit nicely with Spirits, similar to how some Spirit battles had Assist Trophies, and would've allowed some more creative battles.
I would love a Deluxe version with all the DLC and a new co-op platforming story mode like Subspace Emissary. I’d be fine with no other content at all at launch and just gradually release more over time as DLC. I feel like World of Light never really lived up to SSE in terms of “single player”. I loved being able to play through the story with my brother and friend so it never really felt right calling SSE a single player mode. Ultimate doesn’t really have any fun co-op modes other than random spirit battles or matches against the AI.
 
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TCT~Phantom

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Well I definitely agree with that as well. Polygons with no textures looks terrible.

I just think Super Mario RPG is the worst looking thing Square put out on the SNES.
You mistakenly quoted me on this, please edit it.

For what it's worth, here's a thread about why Nintendo is shutting down the eShops:

While I understand logistically maintaining a legacy server is incredibly difficult and can be a taxing affair, Nintendo has certainly made things harder for their fans with this. Granted, I will say that giving basically a year for people to snag what they want from the eshop was a good move, and certainly better than when Sony was originally going to give six months or so for the PS3. That being said, I think the greatest avenue of frustration comes from how Nintendo has handled their legacy games as a whole. The Wii U and 3DS had their issues with the VC approach, the Switch has been a disaster in this regard.

Nintendo's release structure for NSO has been abysmal. They could easily build up public support with a steady feed of games. But the system has been a complete failure in my eyes in terms of support. SNES had only games updated onto it four times since the beginning of 2021. And yet, several classics from the system still are not on NSO. Genesis and N64 being locked behind a higher subscription and having the same pattern of issues is also worrying. Genesis has not gotten anything since December. N64, while its distribution pattern is not as worrying, launched with abysmal emulation. People want the ability to legally play Nintendo games. The secondhand market is brutal at points. Nintendo however has basically done the Disney Vault approach of artificial scarcity. I want to be able to legally play Golden Sun or Metroid Fusion on my switch. But Nintendo has not offered me the opportunity.

This goes into why the fall of the 3DS store is so rough. Some games on the 3ds might be hard to port, especially if they heavily rely on dual screens. But games like Awakening, KI Uprising, Link Between Worlds, and more are going to be locked behind physical copies only if you want to legally play them. It will be even worse for titles that are not as easy to come by. Digital exclusives are even worse. How will I be able to legally play Pushmo in 2023? While in theory this might seem like a good method for Nintendo to encourage people to purchase now rather than later, it really only encourages piracy.

I think if Nintendo wants to make NSO more appealing as a service, they should offer a more reliable distribution model. N64, as much as the emulation might have started off terrible, is a step in the right direction. Monthly or so releases is a good method to slowly feed your audience a reliable stream of games and make them continue paying for their subscription. They also can add other systems too. I know I mentioned GB, GBC, and GBA as easy choices to have. But you could do perhaps more. Maybe rope in Sega and do the Saturn? How about doing 3DS and DS stuff there as a sign of good will? Hell, maybe for once Gamecube will be available. Nintendo honestly could charge money for GC games and have them digital if streaming them is to difficult, I know they would make a profit there.

While it would be nice, at the same time, I actually want some new content to be something that is quite replayable. While the Bosses are great and Spirits and World of Light have good ideas, fighting the bosses as any character feels too restricted and Spirits and World of Light don't feel good to replay.

I still think Smash Run was easily one of the most replayable modes of Smash Bros. just because it never felt the same and it was very enjoyable fighting the enemies from different series with different characters. It just needed Options for choosing how much time you play for, which event you do after the initial run, etc. And I think enemies would've also fit nicely with Spirits, similar to how some Spirit battles had Assist Trophies, and would've allowed some more creative battles.
I mean, what is stopping them from using Ultimate as a base and giving that new jolt of single player content? It would be easier commercially to just use Ultimate as a base since you do not need to redesign tons of characters from the ground up. Adding something like Smash Run or something new would be easier if you were able to in theory pour more resources into it. If we get a port of Ultimate, its not unreasonable that there will be new content in that vein. MK8D put a huge focus on Battle mode, which was notably barren in the original release. I would not be surprised if Ultimate Deluxe gave Ultimates single player a nice shot in the arm.
 

Guynamednelson

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I would love a Deluxe version with all the DLC and a new co-op platforming story mode like Subspace Emissary
Problem with that is that game companies LOVE to be cheap when it comes to ports. And if Sakurai's said that Subspace took a lot of resources, that's going to be out of reach in an Ultimate port. That's why I keep being adamant against an Ultimate port, if you actually paid attention to 99% of the remasters/ports/whatever the eighth gen consoles have gotten, you can see there are many ways a wish for Ultimate to be ported to the Switch's successor can be monkey pawed, from remasters that can't bring back all the licensed music of the original game, to remasters that are just literally the exact same game you played years ago but in 1080p. All I can say is that it at least wouldn't be a GTA Trilogy/Warcraft III Reforged-tier disaster.

Even MK8DX shows how Ultimate DX can be monkey pawed: No new racetracks for those who prefer racing over battling until 5 years later, and they're recycled Tour tracks with simplified visuals.
 

Gengar84

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Problem with that is that game companies LOVE to be cheap when it comes to ports. And if Sakurai's said that Subspace took a lot of resources, that's going to be out of reach in an Ultimate port. That's why I keep being adamant against an Ultimate port, if you actually paid attention to 99% of the remasters/ports/whatever the eighth gen consoles have gotten, you can see there are many ways a wish for Ultimate to be ported to the Switch's successor can be monkey pawed, from remasters that can't bring back all the licensed music of the original game, to remasters that are just literally the exact same game you played years ago but in 1080p. All I can say is that it at least wouldn't be a GTA Trilogy/Warcraft III Reforged-tier disaster.

Even MK8DX shows how Ultimate DX can be monkey pawed: No new racetracks for those who prefer racing over battling until 5 years later, and they're recycled Tour tracks with simplified visuals.
We’ll it doesn’t really have to be a port in a strict sense. It could just save a lot of work by reusing existing assets like Ultimate did for Smash 4. I’m just saying that I’d be satisfied with the same game again but with a new SSE and promise of continued DLC.
 

Guynamednelson

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It could just save a lot of work by reusing existing assets like Ultimate did for Smash 4
I mean yeah every Smash sequel has reused assets from the previous game, but when a game is being marketed as a port/remaster/whatever of the previous game, that usually means they won't invest a lot except in cases like Crash Bandicoot and Tony Hawk where the original graphics are flat and blocky.
 

Gengar84

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I mean yeah every Smash sequel has reused assets from the previous game, but when a game is being marketed as a port/remaster/whatever of the previous game, that usually means they won't invest a lot except in cases like Crash Bandicoot and Tony Hawk where the original graphics are flat and blocky.
True. There’s also the fact that Smash “Ultimate Deluxe” has kind of a weird ring to it. The name Ultimate kind of implies it has everything already. Deluxe on top of that is kind of redundant.
 

TCT~Phantom

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Problem with that is that game companies LOVE to be cheap when it comes to ports. And if Sakurai's said that Subspace took a lot of resources, that's going to be out of reach in an Ultimate port. That's why I keep being adamant against an Ultimate port, if you actually paid attention to 99% of the remasters/ports/whatever the eighth gen consoles have gotten, you can see there are many ways a wish for Ultimate to be ported to the Switch's successor can be monkey pawed, from remasters that can't bring back all the licensed music of the original game, to remasters that are just literally the exact same game you played years ago but in 1080p. All I can say is that it at least wouldn't be a GTA Trilogy/Warcraft III Reforged-tier disaster.

Even MK8DX shows how Ultimate DX can be monkey pawed: No new racetracks for those who prefer racing over battling until 5 years later, and they're recycled Tour tracks with simplified visuals.
Nelson whenever Ultimate DX is even entertained.
1645121798596.png



If you look at Nintendo's track record for ports and re releases, they have actually done a great job this gen. I know you bring up MK8D as an example, but they did add a ton to battle mode, which if you look back at what people were primarily complaining about for 8 was its lackluster battle mode. XC got a fantastic remaster. Mario 3D World got to have a whole new shiny mode to toy around it. Nintendo's switch ports as a whole have been pretty decent. At worst, you would probably see Ultimate with a few new characters, some new stuff in a WoL style story mode, and improved online. At worst, that still ends up being the smash game with the most content and improved online, which would satisfy a lot of people.

Are there bad ports? Absolutely. There are a ton. But given the track record Nintendo has had with their ports recently, I think its very reasonable to say we will get more content than the worst case scenario would suggest. I think that at the end of the day, Ultimate Deluxe offers so much for the path of least resistance for both Nintendo and Sakurai. I have in the past disputed several of your takes on why Ultimate Deluxe is a terrible idea, but if you want me to again I can do so.
 

Dinoman96

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Honestly, in regards to the NES/SNES NSO libraries...I actually think they're quite comprehensive, at least first party wise.


NOTE: This image was made prior to the February Direct this year, hence why Earthbound and Earthbound Beginnings are listed.

But really with those two now included on the service...I don't think there's a whole lot left outside of Mario RPG, which has legal hangups with Square Enix. There are certainly a few weird omissions here and there like Mach Rider and Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II, but the rest of the remaining first party owned Nintendo games not on the services are mostly just obscure Japan only releases and games build around peripherals that aren't compatible with the Switch, like Mario Paint, Battle Clash, Duck Hunt and the other NES Zapper games, etc. Also a lot of SNES games that haven't even seen the light of day since their original release, like Tin Star or Uniracers (blame Pixar for suing it into oblivion lol)

Again, outside of Mario RPG, Nintendo really does have major classic first party NES/SNES game that are feasible on Switch hardware now, especially with Earthbound and Earthbound Beginnings just being added. I think the real issue is the lack of really great third party support. The Mega Mans, the Castlevanias, the Final Fantasies, Chrono Trigger, etc, it sucks those games aren't on the service but it does make sense: their respective companies would rather sell them to you in their own compilations or ports. At least Konami was more willing to play ball on the Expansion Pack, with the inclusions of Contra Hard Corps and Castlevania Bloodlines.
 
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Sucumbio

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I would legit pay 100 bucks a year for NSO+GC Expansion Pack.

But they'd have to include Eternal Darkness!

Smash Ultimate port...eh. meh. I still want a new game rather than a rerelease with a handful of extras. If it sucks then I can just go back to Ultimate. If it's good but is missing some of my favorite characters, I will learn new favorite characters and play Ultimate when I'm hankering for an oldie. Like when there was no Snake in Smash for WiiU, I'd just play Brawl for awhile until the itch was scratched.
 

DarthEnderX

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PeridotGX

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True. There’s also the fact that Smash “Ultimate Deluxe” has kind of a weird ring to it. The name Ultimate kind of implies it has everything already. Deluxe on top of that is kind of redundant.
If we had to have an Ultimate DX, I think the name "Smash Ultimate: Special Edition" would work. It's gonna sound a little weird no matter what, might as well reference something else; The game's Japanese name. Likewise, in Japan it would be "Smash Special: Ultimate Edition".
 

Gengar84

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Fixed.

I think the monster sprites in FF4 look WAY better than the ones in SMRPG.
The monster sprites look decent but I’d argue the rest of the game including the overworld and character sprites look much better in Super Mario RPG. At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal taste and there’s nothing wrong with liking one style over the other.
 

Diddy Kong

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At this rate, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Ultimate gets ported onto the next Nintendo console with new content, whenever that will be.
New content being new characters, old modes am very very sure, as Smash Run, Custom Moves, maybe stuff like Race To The Finish, Trophies, and a New Adventure Mode. That would be more than satisfying enough.
 

Guynamednelson

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New content being new characters, old modes am very very sure, as Smash Run, Custom Moves, maybe stuff like Race To The Finish, Trophies, and a New Adventure Mode. That would be more than satisfying enough.
And that's the amount of content ports never add. You can't have your cake and eat it too, it's either literally just Ultimate again but you have to repay for the Squenix Squad, or a new game with cuts but it adds a bunch of new fighters and other content in return. It's just how the game industry works.
 

Dinoman96

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Again the main appeal of Ultimate Deluxe to me wouldn't even be as an excuse to add more characters (we already have 89 for petes sake), it'd just be a way to fully preserve Ultimate's DLC in the event the Switch eShop goes down for good, like what we're seeing happen to Smash 4's DLC on the Wii U/3DS eShop.

And not to mention it'd be a good way to make the game feel actually complete with the DLC stuff properly integrated into the game. Give the FP characters Palutena Guidances, put them on the Classic Mode banner, give the new series like Banjo, Persona, Fatal Fury, etc assist trophies, properly integrate the DLC fighters and spirits into WOL, etc
 

Sucumbio

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Again the main appeal of Ultimate Deluxe to me wouldn't even be as an excuse to add more characters (we already have 89 for petes sake), it'd just be a way to fully preserve Ultimate's DLC in the event the Switch eShop goes down for good, like what we're seeing happen to Smash 4's DLC on the Wii U/3DS eShop.

And not to mention it'd be a good way to make the game feel actually complete with the DLC stuff properly integrated into the game. Give the FP characters Palutena Guidances, put them on the Classic Mode banner, give the new series like Banjo, Persona, Fatal Fury, etc assist trophies, properly integrate the DLC fighters and spirits into WOL, etc
See .. I wouldn't pay for that tho. I may be in a minor minority (let's be real we aren't a great slice of all smash fandom just a morsel and my take even smaller so) but if I'm to buy the next game - if it's a deluxe edition - it's going to be because it's impossible to play online on the switch game because it's getting shut down. All the other stuff is nice but I literally only play online in quickplay..

Buuut if the next game is a truly new game with a new roster (with or without specific returning characters) I'm already sold.
 

KingofPhantoms

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A new game is a guarantee for new characters, more so since we very likely won't be getting another "Everyone is Here!" situation for the foreseeable future, which would open the door for plenty of new characters to be developed while saving time on various veterans, but I don't see any reason why a port couldn't add more new characters, either.

Given the sheer success of Ultimate, I wouldn't be too surprised if it's what happens, but then again, a lot of Nintendo's recent successful ports were just some of the better received Wii U games, and the decisions to port them to the Switch with new DLC are logical given that the Wii U itself was a dying console at the time, and one that had already sort of bombed. They knew people would still want to be able to play these particular games, and they'd be harder to get on a console that was no longer being manufactured, so why not give customers the chance to play the same games on the latest console with entirely new content as a special bonus? It allows players who already owned the games to enjoy it on a new console that still has plenty years of support left in it's lifetime, and grants players who missed out a better opportunity to play the games in the first place (of course, that just further raises the question of why they aren't putting their oldest games on the Virtual Console, but that's besides the point I'm getting at) and Nintendo gets more profit off the already successful games as a result.

Really, whether or not the next Smash game is just a port of Ultimate with new content or a new game entirely is a matter of time and profit. Either is a strong possibility at this point in time, but given Nintendo's recent track record, I'd like to think it'd be much more than just a simple port if it did happen.
 
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