Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

We all know you're allergic to polygons.

How can DarthEnderX play Smash then? Sticking to sprite-based fan games?

 

[Ivander]

Are recent titles bad?

Unless I'm suddenly 13 parallel universes away from the one I was living in, last time I checked, Metroid Dread was amazing and has a character alot of people think would be perfect for Smash Bros.

 

[Shroob]

Are recent titles bad?


Don't answer the above question. We all know you're allergic to polygons.

Hm? I didn't say that.


What I am saying is that they tend to focus more on putting new 1st party characters in over old ones. It's a very small sample size sure, but we know they were using the ballot heavily for Ult, and the only 1st party DLC we got were characters from Switch-era games. No Isaac, no Dixie, etc.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hm? I didn't say that.


What I am saying is that they tend to focus more on putting new 1st party characters in over old ones. It's a very small sample size sure, but we know they were using the ballot heavily for Ult, and the only 1st party DLC we got were characters from Switch-era games. No Isaac, no Dixie, etc.

I think we're arguing different points then.

I'm perfectly okay with recent Nintendo characters and while Byleth was... tone deaf, I quite enjoyed Min Min and Pyra/Mythra. The latter are fairly popular too.

 

[Shroob]

I think we're arguing different points then.

I'm perfectly okay with recent Nintendo characters and while Byleth was... tone deaf, I quite enjoyed Min Min and Pyra/Mythra. The latter are fairly popular too.

Yeah, I'm not saying recent characters are bad.


What I am saying is that, expecting older characters as DLC, at least 1st party ones, seems a bit more of a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hm? I didn't say that.


What I am saying is that they tend to focus more on putting new 1st party characters in over old ones. It's a very small sample size sure, but we know they were using the ballot heavily for Ult, and the only 1st party DLC we got were characters from Switch-era games. No Isaac, no Dixie, etc.

Yeah, I'm not saying recent characters are bad.


What I am saying is that, expecting older characters as DLC, at least 1st party ones, seems a bit more of a tough pill to swallow.

Imagine if Banjo was in the exact same state he was in prior to his Smash reveal, except MS never bought him. He's still fan demanded, still unrepresented in the game etc. Would that mean he's disqualified from being DLC?

 

[DarthEnderX]

We all know you're allergic to polygons.

They're so scratchy!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They're so scratchy!

They're triangles.

How could they not be scratchy?!?

 

[Shroob]

Imagine if Banjo was in the exact same state he was in prior to his Smash reveal, except MS never bought him. He's still fan demanded, still unrepresented in the game etc. Would that mean he's disqualified from being DLC?

I mean, Banjo got in due to the ballot, at least according to Sakurai.


I think we absolutely could have gotten a handful of older Nintendo characters as DLC, but, well, we didn't. Instead, we got 'new' characters that Nintendo could point at and say "Buy this game", much like Corrin in Smash 4.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They're triangles.

How could they not be scratchy?!?

Checkmate.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

UMK3 had an everyone here is vibe...

Mk4 had a relatively smaller returning cast and yet 7? Newcomers.

This is how I feel the next Smash will go. Many won't return except maybe the core brawl cast but we'll have several newcomers.

That still seems like a bit of a downgrade when, DLC included, Ultimate had around 15 alongside everyone returning.

 

[Shroob]

In other news, I dunno if it's been brought up yet but Ultimate has officially sold over 25 million units!

IR Information : Sales Data - Top Selling Title Sales Units

www.nintendo.co.jp

Puts it in the 3rd most sold Switch game, only losing out to AC and MK8.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

In other news, I dunno if it's been brought up yet but Ultimate has officially sold over 25 million units!

IR Information : Sales Data - Top Selling Title Sales Units

www.nintendo.co.jp

Puts it in the 3rd most sold Switch game, only losing out to AC and MK8.

Bet it’s gonna continue climbing…

And yeah older Nintendo characters seem to be a base game only deal, look at K. Rool, Chrom and Isabelle

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, Banjo got in due to the ballot, at least according to Sakurai.


I think we absolutely could have gotten a handful of older Nintendo characters as DLC, but, well, we didn't. Instead, we got 'new' characters that Nintendo could point at and say "Buy this game", much like Corrin in Smash 4.

Either way, my point was that if Banjo could be DLC, so could various other characters whose better days were on a dead Nintendo platform. It's just that all the third-parties took up too much time and money for that, especially Sora. I wouldn't be surprised if Sora is the reason why all 15 of the DLC slots in the game's data won't be taken up more than Sakurai wanting to stop development.

Isabelle

Isabelle isn't exactly in the same state as those former two.

 

[dream1ng]

Imagine if Banjo was in the exact same state he was in prior to his Smash reveal, except MS never bought him. He's still fan demanded, still unrepresented in the game etc. Would that mean he's disqualified from being DLC?

Probably.

If Banjo remained first party he never would've remained unincluded all the way til Ultimate's DLC, but if he had, he'd probably still be unincluded, since Nintendo doesn't seem to be about adding not recent first-parties in those phases, even if they're popular.

 

[Shroob]

Either way, my point was that if Banjo could be DLC, so could various other characters whose better days were on a dead Nintendo platform. It's just that all the third-parties took up too much time and money for that, especially Sora. I wouldn't be surprised if Sora is the reason why all 15 of the DLC slots in the game's data won't be taken up more than Sakurai wanting to stop development.

The DLC 'slots'?


Those were never a good indication as to what was to come. They added and removed those with almost every update despite knowing full well what their project plan would be.

 

[Ivander]

I think we absolutely could have gotten a handful of older Nintendo characters as DLC, but, well, we didn't. Instead, we got 'new' characters that Nintendo could point at and say "Buy this game", much like Corrin in Smash 4.

To be fair though, those 1st Party DLCs were from games people did want a rep for and how for two of them, even Sakurai mentioned that he wanted a rep for them, but couldn't for the base game due to timing. People did want a character from ARMS and Rex/Pyra/Mythra.
Byleth was somewhat "read the room" blind in how they were the last of the mostly third-party DLC 1 Pack, but was lucky in that Three Houses was popular and people did want a character from it, whether it'd be Byleth, Edelgard, Dimitri or Claude. Heck, before Byleth was revealed, there was that poll for the different countries for Japan, US and Europe and Byleth was the Top 5th one for Japan.

Like....yes they were from recent titles, but quite a lot of people did want a character from them.

And while we may not have gotten a whole lot of old Nintendo characters, for one, we did get alot of requested ones who weren't really appearing again, like K. Rool, Chrom, Dark Samus and to an extent, Simon and Richter. And two, I would not be surprised if the Ballot was the reason for some of the Assist Trophies who weren't really appearing again, like Isaac and Krystal. And Assist Trophies certainly aren't immune to becoming playable for future games, like Little Mac, Dark Samus and Isabelle. Whether they do or not, we'll see later.

 

[Garteam]

I think the whole "first party vs. third party" thing is a false dichotomy. There's certainly room for both on a roster as big as Smash's.

That being said, I'm somewhat surprised that many think third parties are currently being underappreciated. Across the past 3 years, we got approximately three third parties for every first party. Likewise, the fan discussion has basically been dominated by third parties throughout the entire DLC period. What few first parties remained in public consciousness were either deemed prima facie shill picks chosen just to line Nintendo's pockets or never-evers that fanboys who were BTFO should shut up about.

I dunno, I just feel that people are gatekeeping first parties for being first parties at a rate far higher than they gatekeeping third parties for being third parties. I get many are probably afraid of returning to the Brawl/Smash 4 days where third parties were held to an unnecessary degree of skepticism, but it feels like we're much closer to the opposite problem now (if we're not already there).

 

[Speed Weed]

This is blasphemy.

I will say, if it were between Opa-Opa and Harrier, I do think Opa-Opa would probably be the one to get in of the two

They'd both be excellent picks, but if we're going for the "general SEGA arcade rep" angle, then I do think Opa has the edge because of how often he's still used as a mascot-ish figure of sorts in SEGA media. If there's anything Harrier would have going for him, it's the way he more directly represents the works of Yu Suzuki, but Opa I feel just lends himself better as a "general representative" for SEGA's arcade output.

Space Harrier is the more iconic, important and prominent game, but Opa-Opa is the more iconic, important and prominent character, is what I'm getting at here.

They'd both be banger choices tho

 

[Sucumbio]

That still seems like a bit of a downgrade when, DLC included, Ultimate had around 15 alongside everyone returning.

I meant by comparison so 15 or so? Not good at math lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think the whole "first party vs. third party" thing is a false dichotomy. There's certainly room for both on a roster as big as Smash's.

That being said, I'm somewhat surprised that many think third parties are currently being underappreciated. Across the past 3 years, we got approximately three third parties for every first party. Likewise, the fan discussion has basically been dominated by third parties throughout the entire DLC period. What few first parties remained in public consciousness were either deemed prima facie shill picks chosen just to line Nintendo's pockets or never-evers that fanboys who were BTFO should shut up about.

I dunno, I just feel that people are gatekeeping first parties for being first parties at a rate far higher than they gatekeeping third parties for being third parties. I get many are probably afraid of returning to the Brawl/Smash 4 days where third parties were held to an unnecessary degree of skepticism, but it feels like we're much closer to the opposite problem now (if we're not already there).

Hell, if The Official Rules of Adding Characters to Super Smash Bros™ dictate that in the base game, first parties can be more than what's debuted in the past couple of years...then act like it. This thread is specifically about what the next base game will do, not what its DLC will.

 

[Geno Boost]

Sorry, but I want it back to being a Nintendo all star game again, otherwise Waluigi will never be playable. They care too much about big third party characters because it makes them too much money.

i dont think thats the issue but the fact that all became playable before him despite having bigger demands than all of them is telling us something i am pretty sure we would get another new Mario rep in the next smash game however Waluigi still has to compete with the characters that the Smash team may desire more in terms of what Mario rep should get in next and i could see 3 who could possibly take that spot which would be Pauline, Toad, King Boo unless if the Waluigi supports gets as big as that could convince the Smash team to add him first.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Waluigi is not an if. He's a when.

I've only said this about four characters.

Inkling
Isabelle
Steve
And Monster Hunter.

I'm pretty spot on with this stuff.

 

[Garteam]

Hell, if The Official Rules of Adding Characters to Super Smash Bros™ dictate that in the base game, first parties can be more than what's debuted in the past couple of years...then act like it. This thread is specifically about what the next base game will do, not what its DLC will.

I think this is why Waluigi, Isaac, and Bandana Waddle Dee have really dominated this thread thus far in terms of discussion. It's not that they suddenly had a massive surge of requests out of nowhere, they've all been pretty popular since at least Ultimate's reveal (if not earlier). It's just that now they're seen as having a fighting chance, so their fanbases have emerged to vocalize their desires more overtly.

 

[SPEN18]

Literally the only clone that does not make sense out of the melee roster is Ganon, who is divisive in terms of getting a rework. Zelda representation is fine because there literally are what, two recurring characters not in Smash in Impa and Tingle? FE representation has done good strides with stuff like Robin, Corrin, and Byelth all attempting to show off other facets of FE like the weapons triangle, weapon durability and magic, and transformations.

Smash has evolved into a celebration of gaming according to its own creator, hence why our third parties either are big third parties for their company or close to Nintendo. In terms of close to Nintendo, you have Mega Man, Sonic, Bayonetta, Banjo Kazooie, the Belmonts, and arguably the Shotos and Hero. If not, the Shotos are from the biggest fighting game of all time. Dragon Quest is one of the biggest JRPG series of all time. Fatal Fury and SNKs fighters have had a strong influence on the genre. Tekken is massive in terms of fighting games. Final Fantasy 7 and Metal Gear Solid are legendary games that have shaped gaming discourses for almost 25 years. Persona 5 is the biggest JRPG release of the past ten years. Minecraft is the biggest game of all time. If even the most niche third parties like Terry and Joker have arguments for a celebration of gaming, I think its clear the selection was not "random". Bringing everone back was done because characters like Snake, Wolf, and Ice Climbers were massive fan requests after their cuts.

Ever since Brawl, Smash's roster was chosen less in terms of filling cracks in terms of arbitrary representation and more about filling cracks left due to a new generation. Brawl added many long standing picks like Wario, Dedede, or Diddy, but all those picks were relevant at the time as well and Brawl made no secret how it was repping the GC/GBA/DS era. Literally, responding to someone else above I outlined how Smash 4 and Ultimate do that. If you want some sort of purified roster where everyone "makes sense", you will never get that. That just is not how Smash rosters work, they are messy and have decisions that very few people see coming.

Nintendo's history is represented well in Smash. There are a few smaller series that could make the cut to get shown off, such as Astral Chain, Ring Fit, Golden Sun, and Wars, but Smash has done a good job showing off Nintendo history. The spirit battles are a great way to show off Nintendo history as well, with a lot of love going into making an event match that fits with any of the hundreds of Nintendo Spirits, with characters, music, and battle conditions that work out for it. The music for smash as well has done a great job of representing Nintendo as a whole. While some songs are absent that are missed like Wario Deluxe or God Shattering Star, you have a wide assortment of songs that aim to show the soul of each series. The stages all are also done to give as good a grasp into a series as possible while being a backdrop for fighting. Even in terms of existing franchises, the only ones that are arguably underrepresented are Kirby and Zelda. Everything else got plenty of love coming into Ultimate, had its cracks filled, or getting another character at this point would be gravy. Nowadays, Splatoon and Animal Crossing arguably could get another rep each, but these holes came after Ultimate.

Odds are, whatever next game exists will be done with a similar mindset to 4 and Ultimate, especially given what Sakurai himself has said in his column and how he does view that he might work on smash again for the next one. We will probably end up getting something very similar to Ultimate in its DNA with a lot of the same love and care put into representing gaming as well as possible, showing off classic Nintendo series, third parties that are massive, and and filling whatever little cracks there are after the Switch era. Given what hill you have chosen to die on, you probably wont be happy given how much you have ignored how much of Nintendo's history is celebrated because they dared to add someone like Cloud.

You can't refute that many Zelda and FE fans are unsatisfied with the representations of these franchises in Smash. Even if you concede that the representation is "fine," it could still be much better, especially if attention was detracted from having to fill the game up with outdated clones and wacky third party reps. I don't really want to get into specifics right now, though, especially since the Zelda/FE examples were just chosen off the top of my head. I'll just add that your argument that the only good Zelda reps are the recurring ones seems suspect. Yes, being in more games helps, but it is hardly a requirement.

--

I am well aware that Sakurai views Smash as a "celebration of all of gaming," but I disagree with the decision to try to turn Smash into that. It's just unrealistic and there's no especially reasonable way to go about it; for example, there's no way you're going to get all the most iconic Sony characters in the game. "All of gaming," IMO, is just too broad an umbrella, too ambitious a project. I'd rather Smash just succeed supremely well at celebrating the Nintendo "all-stars" and history, which it is much better equipped to do. You just can't represent "all of gaming" that well, and if you try too hard at it, then you lose out on the Ness's and Captain Falcons of the world, which were a big part of what made Smash great to begin with. What we have right now is a strange middle path between the two that ends up looking disjointed and detracting from what could be a more complete and successful roster.

It doesn't matter how "big" the third parties added to Smash are if they don't fit in with a cast of mostly Nintendo characters. If being "big" was all that mattered, then there would be nothing stopping them from including characters from other media. Roster matters get much clearer if you pick your scope and stick to it. And just because there were a few popular cut veterans doesn't mean it was a good idea to bring them all back. "Everyone is Here" severely constrained the development of Ultimate, and it shows in the lack of coherence in the roster.

--

Yes, I don't dispute that Ultimate does a pretty incredible job of representing most of Nintendo history, although it could be much more complete and organized than it is without "Everyone is Here" and an exorbitant number of third parties. You're right that what actually has been achieved shouldn't get lost in the discussion.

Lastly, I am fully aware that what I have advocated for is pretty unlikely to actually happen. They've opened too large a can of worms now, for better or for worse. Doesn't stop me from expressing my opinions and misgivings about the current direction of things, though.

 

[Chuderz]

Because it's unrealistic to expect all the content in Ultimate+a newcomer count closer to Brawl in base, a better adventure mode, additional side modes etc. unless Sakurai works on it for like six years. And don't you people want Sakurai to rest?

It's not unrealistic. I'm advocating NOT starting from the ground up and instead reusing Ultimate's work. That would save time not add to it.

An Ultimate DX would still be Ultimate though. I like Mario Kart 8, but it's been eight and a half years since it came out. MK8D really didn't add much new, and I'm waiting for Mario Kart 9. After another five years of Ultimate I imagine I'll feel much the same.

It could be minimal like Mario Kart 8 DX and I don't want that either. I'd rather it get 3/4 years of development time on top of Ultimate as it exists now (all DLC and updates included) and I'd imagine you could add tons of news things to it outside of new content like new attacks and cutscenes and the like.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's not unrealistic. I'm advocating NOT starting from the ground up and instead reusing Ultimate's work. That would save time not add to it.

Except time needs to be spent updating character models to fit the new hardware's standards, rewriting code so it works properly on the new hardware, and doing any further balance changes Sakurai wishes for. Some time might be saved, but only SOME and you still have to pay all those licensing fees to bring back all the third-parties which will take away funds from adding new things, fighters or otherwise.

 

[Yamat08]

At the end of the day, whether an Ultimate port happens or an entirely new game happens, either way sacrifices have to be made, whether it be sacrificing stuff we already have with Ultimate, or sacrificng stuff we COULD have gotten in a new game had Nintendo/Sakurai not had to focus on bringing all old content back with a port.

And which one of these things sounds more/less appealing or which one is the worst sacrifice for one individual will likely depend on how much of the older content you actually genuinely care about, how much stuff you'd still want to see get in Smash that didn't get in Ultimate, how much fun you still have playing Ultimate, etc etc.

For me, I'm not going to pretend I personally give a **** about every character or franchise in Smash, there are still a bunch of characters/franchises I'd love to see made playable in Smash, and while Ultimate is still fun for me to play, it lost that special "big new game" magic a long time ago, and looking past the roster, I think Ultimate is definitely a flawed game; a good game, but a pretty flawed game, and I think there is so much missed potential behind Ultimate.

So yeah, I'm in the camp that actually finds the idea of a brand new Smash game more exciting-sounding than "Super Smash Ultimate again but with a few new things sprinkled on top."

There is a third option: the only "sacrifice" is time. We just have to wait a bit longer than usual for the next Smash (which may happen anyway if the series sticks to being one entry per console generation), which is a compromise I'd be perfectly willing to make.

Also, it's been asked several times already, but what exactly would "brand new Smash game" bring that "Ultimate again but with a few new things sprinkled on top" couldn't already do and likely better? Maybe it's just due to a collective lack of imagination on the fandom, but the only suggestions I keep seeing are either:

1. To include team-switching and other fighting game mechanics that could easily just be incorporated into Smash as is anyway, or turning into a "traditional" 2D fighter (as if stamina mode couldn't already accomplish something similar).
2. A complete reimagining of movesets for the original 8 and a select few other crucial characters. Though even if they were willing to risk completely chucking out the familiar movesets to start from square one, they'd better be prepared to make a pretty beefy base roster from scratch. The iconicness and recognizeability of Nintendo franchises has only grown to be significantly more massive than it already was in the N64 days (partially due to Smash itself, funnily enough), and that's not even taking 3rd parties into account.
3. The series gets completely overhauled into something like a 3D arena fighter. Putting aside the need to start from scratch, Smash made a name for itself as a "platform" fighter (the series' title itself being a heavy reference to Mario), and I really doubt that platforms can be pulled off all too well in a 3D environment. And without the platforms, it'd only risk being a Tekken or Soul Calibur clone.

Smash Ultimate as of this writing sold over 25 million copies. That is almost as much as Smash Wii U, Brawl, and Melee combined. Over 1/4 Switch owners own Smash. I doubt Nintendo would rock the boat that much when they know character hype for smash sells it and if you want proof, look at how well ultimate did. I know that a vocal minority does want a super robust single player or a lot of new modes, but 99% of your time with smash will be in muliplayer to be honest. Remember Smash Tour? How often did you ever play Smash Tour? Resource wise, it does not make sense going nuclear on the roster and cutting characters just to throw in modes that may or may not even be popular, when we know the formula works.

While I do think it's pretty dumb to suggest culling characters in favor of modes...... Smash Tour? Really? You need to use the worst example, a mode that almost nobody liked? And at least in my case, 99% of my time with Smash is with the single-play game. There's this pervasive idea that competitive Smash is the ONLY Smash that's actually worth a damn and that all the side modes apparently deserved to be shafted starting from Smash4. However, the way I see it, Smash isn't about being competitive so much as it is allowing you to use and interact with a wide variety of legendary gaming characters in a number of different scenarios. With that in mind, vs. matches seem rather restrictive in that the only thing these characters can do is beat up other characters. I mean, it's fine in its own right, but Ultimate not even having most of the mini-game staples seems pretty sad when even the original N64 title could provide better variety than that.

Real cool of you trying to turn me into your boogeyman and a representation of your complaints about the Smash community. Literally if you read the piece you would see that at no point did I say that first party speculation was bad. At best, you can say that I justify why Smash speculation has moved on from First Parties as a whole,. If you want to speculate on first parties and view the roster as having more gaps, go ahead. No one is stopping you in this more open era of speculation. Just don't go projecting your frustrations about the changes to the smash community on me.

In terms of fan requests that are Ridley K Rool big, there really are only... 3-4. Waluigi, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and maybe Dixie Kong. Most first party requests nowadays just are not that big anymore. Most of the big first party requests have either had their fanbases die out like Krystal, got in already like Mac Palu Shulk K Rool Ridley and Inkling, or end up becoming a big request like Decidueye just because they are the new hotness.

I agree with this to an extent. I mean, when you think about it, Inkling was a fantastic way to open up Ultimate because it genuinely was the biggest Nintendo IP to come along in recent years. Whenever the next Smash does come along, I'm honestly left to wonder what could have anywhere near such an impact. MAYBE Ring Fit (especially if it grows into a series), though if it were up to me, I'd just assure everyone off the bat that Everyone Is Here was happening again. In fact, if they don't have Everyone Is Here, I'm genuinely left to wonder what they could possibly focus on (especially after the earth-shattering Sora reveal). Imagine poor Crash finally making his Smash debut, only to be burdened with the baggage of "This is who you're sacrificing the complete roster for. Enjoy." (Seriously, I can acknowledge Crash is popular, but I doubt he'd be that popular)

Brawl's newcomers outside of retros and third parties did end up predominantly from the GBA/GC/DS era. Smash 4's ended up being mainly the Wii/DS/3DS era. Ultimate...well to be honest the late 3DS and Wii U era were kind of barren for big easy picks to go for, but we got Inkling Incineroar and Isabelle to show off some of the few big successes Nintendo had

For what it's worth, we did get some Assist Trophy reps in Nikki, Arcade Bunny, Yuri Kozukata (I guess depending on if you view her as a Nintendo character), plus Dillon debuted in Smash4. There's also been a LOT of Kid Icarus Uprising content (right down to having the successor to Snake's codecs be based around it).

 

[Garteam]

Confession time:

Spoiler

I think Mega Man is more likely than Sonic to get a second rep in the next Smash game.

 

[Idon]

Confession time:

Spoiler

I think Mega Man is more likely than Sonic to get a second rep in the next Smash game.

Between X and Zero, I hope that's actually the case lol.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Between X and Zero, I hope that's actually the case lol.

Is it bad that I kinda want X more than Zero?

 

[PeridotGX]

Is it bad that I kinda want X more than Zero?

Not at all. X is one of my most wanteds, probably even in my top five.

 

[toonito]

Between X and Zero, I hope that's actually the case lol.

Tails, Eggman, or Shadow would be cool but despite Sonic being the 2nd oldest 3rd party in Smash there's other characters from current 3rd parties I'd rather see before them.

Unrelated:
if Ultimate DX became real IMO the obvious tagline would be "Everyone is Back"

the laziest version of an Ultimate DX possible would be promoting 12 ATs to playable status to get to "100+ fighters!" since they already have character models. I wouldn't complain if we got Zero playable that way lol.

 

[Idon]

Is it bad that I kinda want X more than Zero?

They're both awesome.
I'd like either of them to make it.

Anything but Classic Mega Man lol. Playing him in Smash made me realize why I prefer the X and MMZ series more lol.

 

[PeridotGX]

Would people be intrested in a moveset/smash game creation contest? Basically, every round i would give a prompt like "make a moveset for a 3ds character" or "overhaul a veteran" or something, sumbmissions would be open for like two weeks, and then i would get judges to decide a winner for the round. These things are pretty popular and fun over on gamefaqs, and i would like to bring them over to a good this site. And don't worry - i wouldn't require movesets to be near as lengthy as your average MYM moveset.

 

[Chuderz]

Actually there’s a lot more first party candidates left but the hivemind has decided to go full steam ahead to the big new and shiny third parties and has lazily adopted a framework of “Haha first party is Waluigi or new“. Disregarding first parties is honestly really annoying especially when trojan horsed into a post about how the purists are gatekeeping and third party should undeniably be the future of Smash

That may be true in a general sense but I have plenty of 1st/2nd party characters I'd look forward to. I still do prefer 3rd parties though because I very much enjoy a character outside of Nintendo being accepted into the fold. That's the most hype for me. That being said...

Mario: Mario/Luigi reworks, Waluigi, King Boo and Captain Toad/Toadette are all hype.
Zelda: Skull Kid, Impa (AOC), Pig Ganon, Ganondorf/Link/ToonLink/YoungLink reworks are all hype.
Pokemon: A fully evolved grass starter (Sceptile PLEEEEEEEEASE), Gengar, Meowth, Eeveelution and Rival Pokemon Trainer would all be hype.
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong semiclone, Teenage Tiny Kong, Lanky Kong, Chunky Kong, Funky Kong Semiclone, Donkey Kong Jr. and even Cranky Kong are all hype.
Metroid: Sylux would be hype.
Star Fox: Krystal and Slippi would be hype.
F-Zero: Deathborn, Blood Falcon echo, Black Shadow semiclone would be hype.
Kirby: Bandana Dee and Magolor are hype.
ARMS: Twintelle is hype
Splatoon: That fat cat and Octoling Semiclone are hype.
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook and KK Slider are hype
Oddball Nintendo Legacy picks: Sukapon, Mach Rider, Isaac, Takamaru are all hype.

I'm going to stop there but I could keep going and even expand upon these series even further if I wanted to. It's not the fandom's fault that Nintendo primarily uses their 1st party picks on promotions. Promotions are not hype but there are still tons of great choices that Nintendo could pull from in-house. It could literally go on and on forever with 1st party choices but the impact would be diminished if that's all we got because it would neglect the crossover aspect.

It's always FIre Emblem though. Nintendo needs to seriously needs to make Intelligent Systems reuse some of those characters for future games like a remake of Marth's game or something. It's ridiculous how everytime those people draw up some new protag it automatically gets shoehorned into Smash.

Nintendo has tarnished the expectations of hype for their own characters NOT the fandom.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honest question.

Do you think Sonic IP is hard to work with? I'm starting to wonder if the reason the representation is seen as lacking is because there's more legal red tape than you're average third party franchise.

For example, the only Sonic remix in all of Smash is one made by a Sega employee and they have the rights to the remix and use it in things like Mario and Sonic.

 

[ZelDan]

Confession time:

Spoiler

I think Mega Man is more likely than Sonic to get a second rep in the next Smash game.

I care about the Megaman franchise way more than the Sonic franchise.

So no complaints here if this happens.

 

[Chuderz]

Except time needs to be spent updating character models to fit the new hardware's standards, rewriting code so it works properly on the new hardware, and doing any further balance changes Sakurai wishes for. Some time might be saved, but only SOME and you still have to pay all those licensing fees to bring back all the third-parties which will take away funds from adding new things, fighters or otherwise.

I just think that's worthwhile development time and investment though. Especially considering again all that stuff is already baked into Ultimate as it currently stands. It's not like there'd be no third parties in a hypothetical cuts-galore "reboot" of the series. There'd still be licensing fees. There are also release strategies to diminish the impact of said fees (releasing 2 Ultimate DX's is an idea I've proposed with one being the primary base 1st party game and the second being a 3rd party expansion pack with enough content to qualify as its own game pretty much) and these fees might not be as hampering to the series as you believe.

Of course I don't really know either but why would a third-party gaming company first and foremost make the process of getting their character into Smash, with all the benefits it provides said series, difficult especially considering they've agreed to the conditions of entry already and lastly why would they treat Nintendo, one of the 3 hardware console manufacturers, in a needlessly antagonistic manner especially again since they've already agreed to the conditions set by Nintendo in the past? It just doesn't make sense to me and seems like fans are running away with Sakurai's modest "getting this all to happen takes lots of work" sentiment to the extreme and assuming the absolute worse from said sentiment quite baselessly regardless of Sakurai's input on the matter. The man is just being polite, modest and grateful to the relevant 3rd parties because that builds the kind of rapport you need in order to go back and ask for these veteran 3rd party characters again in the future.

He represents Nintendo when he's doing these interviews/presentations. That's the entire motivation behind the words he chooses.

 

[Ivander]

Honest question.

Do you think Sonic IP is hard to work with? I'm starting to wonder if the reason the representation is seen as lacking is because there's more legal red tape than you're average third party franchise.

For example, the only Sonic remix in all of Smash is one made by a Sega employee and they have the rights to the remix and use it in things like Mario and Sonic.

It's very weird. I could understand some of the Sonic 3 music due to the Micheal Jackson involvement, but like, why are there not a whole lot of stage tracks from the other games? Considering the whole deal with licensing and whatnot, I always thought the vocal songs should be the more harder songs to get due to the singers and bands like Crash 40, yet we have alot of the vocal songs, but not a lot of stage tracks. Which I don't get exactly when there are alot of popular stage tracks, like Emerald Coast, Stardust Speedway, Casino Night, heck, where the frick' is Chemical Plant, easily one of the most popular Sonic stage tracks behind Green Hill Zone?