Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Rie Sonomura]

At this point I'd like to point out that there are many more potential characters outside of Geno that would be fun to include. There's kind of a hyper focus on just Geno here at this moment.

I personally think Isaac would be real cool for example.

Still fervently supporting Elma, Octoling, Neku, a LoL character, Reimu, Phoenix, KOS-MOS, and even Black Shadow (and no I don’t want Black Shadow to inherit Ganondorf’s pre-Ultimate moveset; I want him to do his own thing)

Sucumbio What about Dead or A-.....?
Oh yeah, Smash is for good boys and girls.

Kasumi could skirt around this (no pun intended) if she’s only in her full body ninja suit

also, found this:

Sakurai Thinks It's Probably Best To Forget About Him For A While https://t.co/Vz5UUWOE4S #NintendoSwitch #MasahiroSakurai #SuperSmashBros #Industry

— Nintendo Life (@nintendolife) December 30, 2021

First reaction: “oh dear is something wrong with him?”
After reading: hmm… (look at the Kamiya Bayonetta 3 thing and when that article was dated for reference)

 

[osby]

The year's almost over, and Twitter is already hyping up the next Direct. I feel I should remind everybody that the only time we had a January Direct during the Switch era was 2018, and that was a Mini Direct. So we're probably waiting until February.

Man, it's gonna take some getting used to knowing there won't be anymore Smash updates in these Directs...

"That's it? No Smash?"

Sakurai Thinks It's Probably Best To Forget About Him For A While https://t.co/Vz5UUWOE4S #NintendoSwitch #MasahiroSakurai #SuperSmashBros #Industry

— Nintendo Life (@nintendolife) December 30, 2021

First reaction: “oh dear is something wrong with him?”
After reading: hmm… (look at the Kamiya Bayonetta 3 thing and when that article was dated for reference)

It's perfectly possible that he's just taking a break, honestly.

Though, given it's Sakurai, I wouldn't be shocked if he's already in the planning stages of his next game or something.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly I hope it’s Sukapon from Joy mech fight I feel like he should be in smash since the very beginning of it

Yeah, Sukapon could be cool for Smash as Fighting Game Rep.

The **** are you people talking about!

You would never have even heard of that character if they weren't an AT.

We need 1st Party Retro Fighting rep in game, which is really cool.

Little Mac.

Cool idea, but the Pro Wrestling franchise is so obscure, which it makes it harder to join.

Not as obscure as ****ing Joy Mech Fight!

 

[SPEN18]

What is ACTUALLY wrong with Nintendo choosing characters to promote their recent games or court fans of popular games? What is the criticism being made here?

Well, part of it is that it can be unfair to characters who have already been around the block so-to-speak and whose legacy has already been cemented. Sometimes there is a sentiment that a newer character hasn't earned their spot yet. Choosing characters based on timing of releases also carries with it a risk of imbalancing the representation of various eras of gaming, although this risk has been reduced a little (but not completely) by the potential for a character to be added as DLC if they just barely missed the boat. And there's also the chance that a recent character's popularity is just a flash in the pan and they will come to look like an awkward choice in retrospect (or in the case of Incineroar, I'd argue that he was never really that popular compared to other alternatives even within his own franchise).

We can have the debate over how much 'shilling' has actually had an ill effect on the roster, and we can have the debate over specific characters (including Incineroar who was mentioned above). But I think this is the general idea behind anti-shilling. Of course, 'shilling' is a component of the continued financial livelihood of the series, and some of the 'shill' picks have over time proven themselves not to be the 'flashes in the pan' that I thought they might turn out to be; however, generally speaking I would like for them to shill less, and in many cases it's debatable whether or not Smash has really moved the sales needle for a particular character's game or series (or Smash itself).

I don't think for the most part that people are accusing Nintendo of scummy practice, but I think we could have other stuff (and a better overall roster/game) instead with minimal overall detriment to sales, etc. if the shilling was reduced a bit.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

The **** are you people talking about!

You would never have even heard of that character if they weren't an AT.

Little Mac.

Not as obscure as ****ing Joy Mech Fight!

1. We talk about Fighting game reps!

2. Dude, he's an Assist, but we just speculate if he will join the roster!!!!!

3. Actually, it's boxing game rep. Boxing game is different than a fighting game.
First, Boxing games don't have 2D perspective, but Fighting Games yes.
Second, Boxing Games have birdeye view perspective.

4. Pro wrestling is very obscure game and a lot of people forgot that s*** existed. Some people even recognized Sukapon before his Smash debut.

 

[Guynamednelson]

or in the case of Incineroar, I'd argue that he was never really that popular compared to other alternatives even within his own franchise

Here's a fun fact for you: TV Tropes never listed Incineroar as one of Gen 7's "breakout characters" until he was added to Smash. Prior to that, it only had Rowlet, Mimikyu, Lycanroc, and Alolan Vulpix, and this can be blamed on them being even more beloved and/or marketed than Incineroar.

Even post-Smash marketing isn't giving it the Greninja treatment. Just look at how Unite has prioritized several other Gen 7 Pokemon before it, and Unite was made after Incineroar got into Smash.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well okay but I think that is very petty and quite a stretch if it's directed at me. If we're talking about influential and critically acclaimed fighters then Scorpion is substantially more significant to video games as a whole than anybody from Virtua Fighter. Virtua Fighter had its time and place like once forever ago while Mortal Kombat is still pushing the genre forward today. Scorpion is instantly recognizable to non-gamers and honestly deserves to join Smash on his own merits. I think overstating Virtua FIghter's overall appeal and legacy is pointless. Even SEGA has seemingly given up on it with MAYBE a Soul Calibur 6 situation in the works MAYBE as a last-ditch effort to revitalize the series but that remains to be seen and very well might not happen at all considering there are confirmed no plans for the series currently. The most recent game in the series is a remaster of a 15-year-old game that was supposed to test the waters. I think it's fairly obvious that it failed but really can't hold that against it considering it's an extremely old game competing in a modern market. Also as a complete aside I'd welcome a revitalized Virtua Fighter series back in the marketplace. Having a whole big publisher/developer behind its own fighting game would be healthy competition.

Now all that being said I'd never hold it against anybody to stan/hype up their series. A character I desperately want, being Crash Bandicoot, is riding primarily on legacy/nostalgia (though I think it's also fair to say that Crash 4 pushed the platforming genre forward some and was a very well polished game) and Banjo-Kazooie ended up getting in regardless of the state of their franchise. I'm just being brutally honest and I also in no way am representative of Mortal Kombat fans as a whole and acting like I am is unfair.

The only thing holding Mortal Kombat back from Smash is something artificial and entirely unnecessary as well as being unfair to its fans. The things holding Virtua Fighter up is Japanese nostalgia/bias straight-up as well as current representation in the game now. I think it's also telling of Virtua Fighter's legacy that Sakurai opted to go the purely nostalgic route for Akira's AT.

Then honestly besides all of this I think Scorpion just adds a much more fun playstyle to the game. He's got an iconic tether grab to offer, a sick as **** soundtrack, a bats-within/foresight gimmick tailored ready, the potential to be repurposed into a Sub-Zero semiclone with Smash's already established ice physics and so on. I just think he'd be cool, fun and hype and for myself a character from Virtua Fighter would be none of that.

I mean... you gotta keep in mind that Smash is a Japanese game made by a Japanese company, and as a result tends to be biased towards the Japanese market. You act like Mortal Kombat being "banned" (I don't even know if that's the right word) only happened recently, but apparently that's been the case since MK3... as in, the ORIGINAL MK3: Japan didn't even get the Ultimate version. As far they're probably aware, Mortal Kombat may as well not exist. By comparison, Virtua Fighter (from what I've gathered) is still a somewhat-popular series over there despite the last game being released years ago. The fact Akira got an Assist Trophy in Smash at all should probably attest to that. In that sense, I actually COULD see a scenario where we get a Virtua Fighter rep before a Mortal Kombat rep.

But if it were up to me, we wouldn't get either: we'd get an Eternal Champions rep because Eternal Champions is just Mortal Kombat, but less generic and more interesting. C'mon, you get to play as a Senator whose Special Finisher Move is to LAUNCH A NUKE AT THE OPPONENT! What's not to love about that?

 

[Gengar84]

1. We talk about Fighting game reps!

2. Dude, he's an Assist, but we just speculate if he will join the roster!!!!!

3. Actually, it's boxing game rep. Boxing game is different than a fighting game.
First, Boxing games don't have 2D perspective, but Fighting Games yes.
Second, Boxing Games have birdeye view perspective.

4. Pro wrestling is very obscure game and a lot of people forgot that s*** existed. Some people even recognized Sukapon before his Smash debut.

I can’t speak for everyone but I have personally never heard of Sukapon before he was an assist in Smash. I definitely have fond memories of playing Pro Wrestling as a kid, if only for a very short time (I was more into the NES WWF Wrestlemania game at the time).

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean... you gotta keep in mind that Smash is a Japanese game made by a Japanese company, and as a result tends to be biased towards the Japanese market. You act like Mortal Kombat being "banned" (I don't even know if that's the right word) only happened recently, but apparently that's been the case since MK3... as in, the ORIGINAL MK3: Japan didn't even get the Ultimate version. As far they're probably aware, Mortal Kombat may as well not exist. By comparison, Virtua Fighter (from what I've gathered) is still a somewhat-popular series over there despite the last game being released years ago. The fact Akira got an Assist Trophy in Smash at all should probably attest to that. In that sense, I actually COULD see a scenario where we get a Virtua Fighter rep before a Mortal Kombat rep.

Also, this is ignoring the fact that Virtua Fighter helped the gaming industry as a whole push for 3D graphics. For example, Quake became a fully 3D game because of VF, and Quake revolutionized online gaming as a while thanks to software for it like Quakeworld and QuakeSpy (which turned into GameSpy, the same service that powered Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection), so you indirectly have VF to blame for online gaming becoming a huge thing.

 

[Gengar84]

Also, this is ignoring the fact that Virtua Fighter helped the gaming industry as a whole push for 3D graphics. For example, Quake became a fully 3D game because of VF, and Quake revolutionized online gaming as a while thanks to software for it like Quakeworld and QuakeSpy (which turned into GameSpy, the same service that powered Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection), so you indirectly have VF to blame for online gaming becoming a huge thing.

I think both of you make good points. I do think Mortal Kombat is much more widely recognizable than Virtua Fighter and I would personally like to see Sub-Zero over anyone from VF. However, I also think it is a mistake to undersell the importance of Virtua Fighter. Like you mentioned, it played a huge part in popularizing 3D fighters. If not for Virtua Fighter, we may not have gotten Tekken or Soul Calibur. I certainly wouldn’t want to live in a world where we never got the chance to play Mace: The Dark Ages.

 

[osby]

Well okay but I think that is very petty and quite a stretch if it's directed at me. If we're talking about influential and critically acclaimed fighters then Scorpion is substantially more significant to video games as a whole than anybody from Virtua Fighter. Virtua Fighter had its time and place like once forever ago while Mortal Kombat is still pushing the genre forward today. Scorpion is instantly recognizable to non-gamers and honestly deserves to join Smash on his own merits. I think overstating Virtua FIghter's overall appeal and legacy is pointless. Even SEGA has seemingly given up on it with MAYBE a Soul Calibur 6 situation in the works MAYBE as a last-ditch effort to revitalize the series but that remains to be seen and very well might not happen at all considering there are confirmed no plans for the series currently. The most recent game in the series is a remaster of a 15-year-old game that was supposed to test the waters. I think it's fairly obvious that it failed but really can't hold that against it considering it's an extremely old game competing in a modern market. Also as a complete aside I'd welcome a revitalized Virtua Fighter series back in the marketplace. Having a whole big publisher/developer behind its own fighting game would be healthy competition.

Now all that being said I'd never hold it against anybody to stan/hype up their series. A character I desperately want, being Crash Bandicoot, is riding primarily on legacy/nostalgia (though I think it's also fair to say that Crash 4 pushed the platforming genre forward some and was a very well polished game) and Banjo-Kazooie ended up getting in regardless of the state of their franchise. I'm just being brutally honest and I also in no way am representative of Mortal Kombat fans as a whole and acting like I am is unfair.

The only thing holding Mortal Kombat back from Smash is something artificial and entirely unnecessary as well as being unfair to its fans. The things holding Virtua Fighter up is Japanese nostalgia/bias straight-up as well as current representation in the game now. I think it's also telling of Virtua Fighter's legacy that Sakurai opted to go the purely nostalgic route for Akira's AT.

Then honestly besides all of this I think Scorpion just adds a much more fun playstyle to the game. He's got an iconic tether grab to offer, a sick as **** soundtrack, a bats-within/foresight gimmick tailored ready, the potential to be repurposed into a Sub-Zero semiclone with Smash's already established ice physics and so on. I just think he'd be cool, fun and hype and for myself a character from Virtua Fighter would be none of that.

Local Smash fan when not everyone in the world worships the same game with them:

 

[chocolatejr9]

Local Smash fan when not everyone in the world worships the same game with him:

View attachment 341398

"I just got back from Japan. Anime there still sucks."

Ah, nothing like some JoJokes to set the mood...

 

[Nabbitfan730]

OK, Here is another question.

Has anyone here modded their Switch, Specifically Smash?

 

[Sucumbio]

Still fervently supporting Elma, Octoling, Neku, a LoL character, Reimu, Phoenix, KOS-MOS, and even Black Shadow (and no I don’t want Black Shadow to inherit Ganondorf’s pre-Ultimate moveset; I want him to do his own thing)

Kasumi could skirt around this (no pun intended) if she’s only in her full body ninja suit

also, found this:

Sakurai Thinks It's Probably Best To Forget About Him For A While https://t.co/Vz5UUWOE4S #NintendoSwitch #MasahiroSakurai #SuperSmashBros #Industry

— Nintendo Life (@nintendolife) December 30, 2021

First reaction: “oh dear is something wrong with him?”
After reading: hmm… (look at the Kamiya Bayonetta 3 thing and when that article was dated for reference)

So after all that my take :

Cody and May for Smash!

 

[Gengar84]

OK, Here is another question.

Has anyone here modded their Switch, Specifically Smash?

Not yet but I’d like to if I can ever find the time to do it. I’m a little worried about messing something up but mods make Smash a lot more fun. Brawl modding was probably the most fun I’ve ever had in gaming.

 

[Guynamednelson]

OK, Here is another question.

Has anyone here modded their Switch, Specifically Smash?

Yes, but I mostly use my modded Switch for streaming PC games to it to play them in the comfort of my bed, as well as having an actually functional version of GTA San Andreas (plus IV and V) on it.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I can’t speak for everyone but I have personally never heard of Sukapon before he was an assist in Smash. I definitely have fond memories of playing Pro Wrestling as a kid, if only for a very short time (I was more into the NES WWF Wrestlemania game at the time).

According to my thoughts, you're the one guy who remembers Pro Wrestling and didn't knew about Sukapon.
Well, a lot of people could recognize Sukapon due to being a sticker in brawl whel there wasn't any materials from PW in Smash.

 

[chocolatejr9]

According to my thoughts, you're the one guy who remembers Pro Wrestling and didn't knew about Sukapon.
Well, a lot of people could recognize Sukapon due to being a sticker in brawl whel there wasn't any materials from PW in Smash.

Amateurs. I knew about Sukapon all the way back in Melee when I saw his Trophy.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Amateurs. I knew about Sukapon all the way back in Melee when I saw his Trophy.

You mean his sticker in Brawl. Which is how I also found out about him.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You mean his sticker in Brawl. Which is how I also found out about him.

What the... I could've sworn he was Trophy in Melee. I remember that's when I first found out about him, and that was WAY before I played Brawl.

 

[Gengar84]

I think the main reason older western fans might be more familiar with Pro Wrestling than Joy Mech Fight is the fact that JMF never got a western release. People like myself who grew up playing the NES would have been much more likely to have heard of Pro Wrestling. I’m curious how many here are only familiar with Sukapon due to Smash. Not that many remember Pro Wrestling either but just out of curiosity.

 

[Guynamednelson]

What the... I could've sworn he was Trophy in Melee. I remember that's when I first found out about him, and that was WAY before I played Brawl.

Nope, his first representation in Smash at all was the Brawl sticker. He was planned to be an item in Melee, which would mean they made a model for him, but sadly no trophy in the final game.

 

[Will]

Man, I can't believe Chrono Trigger made #8 on that Japan's Top 100 poll. Of course it's not going to set anything in stone but —

I have been saying for a while people have been sleeping on it. I have been and still am expecting Chrono Trigger's turn by the next game.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I think the main reason older western fans might be more familiar with Pro Wrestling than Joy Mech Fight is the fact that JMF never got a western release. People like myself who grew up playing the NES would have been much more likely to have heard of Pro Wrestling. I’m curious how many here are only familiar with Sukapon due to Smash. Not that many remember Pro Wrestling either but just out of curiosity.

Bro, the Character in smash needs to be popular in east and west to join the roster or even be requested in east or west.
So, Sukapon was also know in West, but more likely in east. Same goes with Pro Wrestling rep, since it was known in West, but less in East. Unless new smash director could put Sukapon, because people requested him as fighter, but no one requested Star Man or Amazon, so Sukapon is more likely for Smash than Star Man or Amazon.

 

[Gengar84]

Bro, the Character in smash needs to be popular in east and west to join the roster or even be requested in east or west.
So, Sukapon was also know in West, but more likely in east. Same goes with Pro Wrestling rep, since it was known in West, but less in East. Unless new smash director could put Sukapon, because people requested him as fighter, but no one requested Star Man or Amazon, so Sukapon is more likely for Smash than Star Man or Amazon.

That is probably true but I think that’s only due to Sukapon already being represented in Smash. If Sukapon had not been a sticker or assist trophy, I have a hard time imagining many western fans requesting any content from Joy Mech Fight.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

That is probably true but I think that’s only due to Sukapon already being represented in Smash. If Sukapon had not been a sticker or assist trophy, I have a hard time imagining many western fans requesting any content from Joy Mech Fight.

Well, they have japanese friends, who know about Sukapon, so it could spice up it's popularity.

 

[CannonStreak]

The year's almost over, and Twitter is already hyping up the next Direct. I feel I should remind everybody that the only time we had a January Direct during the Switch era was 2018, and that was a Mini Direct. So we're probably waiting until February.

Man, it's gonna take some getting used to knowing there won't be anymore Smash updates in these Directs...

How is Twitter hyping up the next Direct, exactly? I am curious.

 

[chocolatejr9]

How is Twitter hyping up the next Direct, exactly? I am curious.

Eh, mostly just your usual "when's the Direct?" sort of stuff. Everybody's acting like we'll get one soon just because the year's almost over.

Nintendo fans, am I right?

 

[Dan Quixote]

How is Twitter hyping up the next Direct, exactly? I am curious.

the secret ingredient is impatience

 

[Gengar84]

Man, I can't believe Chrono Trigger made #8 on that Japan's Top 100 poll. Of course it's not going to set anything in stone but —

View attachment 341399

I have been saying for a while people have been sleeping on it. I have been and still am expecting Chrono Trigger's turn by the next game.

I would be really hyped for any Chrono representation in Smash. I have a feeling I bring up Chrono Trigger more than anyone else on these boards. Magus is in my top three most wanted characters along with Zegram and the Battletoads so I talk about him whenever I get the chance. Crono is probably much more likely and I’d still be happy if we got him instead.

 

[CannonStreak]

Eh, mostly just your usual "when's the Direct?" sort of stuff. Everybody's acting like we'll get one soon just because the year's almost over.

Nintendo fans, am I right?

the secret ingredient is impatience

Oh. That. As people often say...

It will get there when it gets there.

 

[Gengar84]

Oh. That. As people often say...

It will get there when it gets there.

And now we play the waiting game…

Now We Play The Waiting Game

For those people that use this line as much as I do.Taken from The Simpsons, S04E09

m.youtube.com

 

[Dan Quixote]

I would be really hyped for any Chrono representation in Smash. I have a feeling I bring up Chrono Trigger more than anyone else on these boards. Magus is in my top three most wanted characters along with Zegram and the Battletoads so I talk about him whenever I get the chance. Crono is probably much more likely and I’d still be happy if we got him instead.

If they make any new Chrono content then I'd say Crono is a lock for the next game. Of course that first thing is a lot easier to dream about than to actually manifest...

 

[Gengar84]

If they make any new Chrono content then I'd say Crono is a lock for the next game. Of course that first thing is a lot easier to dream about than to actually manifest...

There were rumors of a Chrono Cross remake but I don’t know if those died with the reveal of the mobile crossover. Still, a mobile crossover is technically content and more than the series has gotten in years.

The one point in Magus’ favor is that he is the only character that was planned to be is playable in both Trigger and Cross (and actually is now depending on how you interpret the optional DS ending).

 

[Dinoman96]

Man, I can't believe Chrono Trigger made #8 on that Japan's Top 100 poll. Of course it's not going to set anything in stone but —

View attachment 341399

I have been saying for a while people have been sleeping on it. I have been and still am expecting Chrono Trigger's turn by the next game.

I mean I'd love for to happen because Chrono Trigger is amazing, but I just don't see Nintendo/Sakurai prioritising it over much more popular and relevant Square Enix IPs like Nier, Tomb Raider and hell, even Final Fantasy for the third time. As mentioned before, Chrono Trigger also is complicated legal wise as other companies like Bird Studio and Shueisha seem to have stakes in its character designs.

Crono to me just feels one of those characters that would only ever get into Smash if there was enough significant fan demand for him, just like Banjo-Kazooie and Sora...but the demand just isn't really there. As far as forgotten SNES era Square characters are concerned, Smash fans would rather rally for a one-off party member from a single Mario RPG game from 25 years ago.

 

[chocolatejr9]

And now we play the waiting game…

Now We Play The Waiting Game

For those people that use this line as much as I do.Taken from The Simpsons, S04E09

m.youtube.com

This game stinks. Let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos instead.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

This game stinks. Let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos instead.

Or let's play Squid Game.

 

[Gengar84]

I mean I'd love for to happen because Chrono Trigger is amazing, but I just don't see Nintendo/Sakurai prioritising it over much more popular and relevant Square Enix IPs like Nier, Tomb Raider and hell, even Final Fantasy for the third time. As mentioned before, Chrono Trigger also is complicated legal wise as other companies like Bird Studio and Shueisha seem to have stakes in its character designs.

Crono to me just feels one of those characters that would only ever get into Smash if there was enough significant fan demand for him, just like Banjo-Kazooie and Sora...but the demand just isn't really there. As far as forgotten Square SNES era characters are concerned, Smash fans would rather rally for a one-off party member from a single Mario RPG game from 25 years ago.

I mean, I rally for Magus who is also a one-off party member from a Square RPG from 25 years ago so I don’t have much room to criticize Geno fans lol. That’s before mentioning that my number one most wanted is an even more obscure secondary party member from a PS2 game.

 

[Will]

I mean I'd love for to happen because Chrono Trigger is amazing, but I just don't see Nintendo/Sakurai prioritising it over much more popular and relevant Square Enix IPs like Nier, Tomb Raider and hell, even Final Fantasy for the third time. As mentioned before, Chrono Trigger also is complicated legal wise as other companies like Bird Studio and Shueisha seem to have stakes in its character designs.

Crono to me just feels one of those characters that would only ever get into Smash if there was enough significant fan demand for him, just like Banjo-Kazooie and Sora...but the demand just isn't really there. As far as forgotten SNES era Square characters are concerned, Smash fans would rather rally for a one-off party member from a single Mario RPG game from 25 years ago.

And just like Smash fans, they stomp all over my dreams with "statistics" and a universal gauge meter for how popular (which somehow directly translates to viable) someone is.

Slept on.​

 

[chocolatejr9]

And just like Smash fans, they stomp all over my dreams with "statistics" and a universal gauge meter for how popular (which somehow directly translates to viable) someone is.

View attachment 341407
Slept on.​

If it makes you feel better, a good chunk of characters I want are probably not gonna happen in my lifetime.