Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Oracle Link]

The fact that nintendo relies on one age old ballot for Smash is dumb because i was like 12 when the ballot came out so my kirby love for example hasnt been devoloped yet so i think i didnt include BWD!
But i did include steve who i know dont really care about anymore!
BTW if nintendo announces a new ballot we should all put our hands together to ensure all time favourites everyone agrees on like bandana dee get in!
Or for example all zelda fans should vote for the same character to make them more likely!

 

[Megadoomer]

The fact that nintendo relies on one age old ballot for Smash is dumb because i was like 12 when the ballot came out so my kirby love for example hasnt been devoloped yet so i think i didnt include BWD!
But i did include steve who i know dont really care about anymore!
BTW if nintendo announces a new ballot we should all put our hands together to ensure all time favourites everyone agrees on like bandana dee get in!
Or for example all zelda fans should vote for the same character to make them more likely!

I don't think it's going to be possible to get everyone to coordinate on one character, even within one particular fandom that's part of Smash.

To be honest, I'd be fine if we don't get a ballot for a future game. In theory, it's nice to give players a say in who gets in, but in practice, it resulted in the community being at each other's throats for about a year, and it got even worse once it was revealed that Bayonetta was the highest-ranked character that the Smash developers could plausibly get in Smash 4.

(as someone who wanted to see Bayonetta in Smash, it was annoying to see people saying that she shouldn't have been included because she didn't "really" win the ballot, even though it was made clear in her reveal that she was the highest-ranking character that could realistically add, presumably because 3DS limitations were still an issue and companies like Disney, Microsoft, and Konami weren't cooperative at that time. Stage hazards and assist trophies were also ruled out regardless of how well they did, so Ridley or Waluigi wouldn't be added for Smash 4 either)

The Donkey Kong fandom couldn't even agree on Dixie Kong or King K. Rool, and those two were easily the front-runners for that franchise. I doubt the entire Zelda fandom could be convinced to agree on one character when there are so many to choose from, as the Hyrule Warriors games have made clear.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The fact that nintendo relies on one age old ballot for Smash is dumb because i was like 12 when the ballot came out so my kirby love for example hasnt been devoloped yet so i think i didnt include BWD!
But i did include steve who i know dont really care about anymore!

Relax buddy. You weren't the only person who was voting in the ballot. You don't need to be concerned that your vote in the old ballot isn't really reflecting your current tastes.


The bigger reason for a new Smash ballot is to see who people vote for now that most of the characters that topped the last ballot have been added to Smash.

and it got even worse once it was revealed that Bayonetta was the highest-ranked character that the Smash developers could plausibly get in Smash 4.

You mean, the lie that the ballot had anything to do with Bayonetta getting in. Because we know now that characters are negotiated at least 2 years before they actually get in, so the idea that she was added because of a ballot they held 4 months before she was added is nonsense.

"plausibly" in this case meant "was already being added anyway".

 

[Stratos]

About the Smash ballot I would say it's fun to vote for the video game character you like and it makes sense that everyone votes for the most popular ones, but some people like me also vote for video game characters that some are not known for since their games weren't famous, such as Queen Azarel and Chief Zog from the video game Warlocked.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I voted like 4 times back in the day not thinking anything would actually come of it.

Sora, Layton, Agumon and Prince fluff from the Kirby games.

 

[Lionfranky]

How would censorship play into speculation? For example, how would they censor 2B if they decide to put her? Same way they censored Pyra and Mythra?

 

[Noipoi]

How would censorship play into speculation? For example, how would they censor 2B if they decide to put her? Same way they censored Pyra and Mythra?

Give her some pants

 

[Sucumbio]

How would censorship play into speculation? For example, how would they censor 2B if they decide to put her? Same way they censored Pyra and Mythra?

She could have some black spandex or something...

 

[Louie G.]

I don't think we need a new Smash ballot and by god I truly, truly do not want one.

Smash 4 speculation looked a lot different than Ultimate. The gates were not completely swung open, speculation felt a bit more insular and niche. There was internal competitiveness but modern social media was not as rampant to have such toxicity and ****-flinging as we saw during Ultimate's DLC cycle... imagine what this would look like if now there was a real, tangible competition? I'm biased because it used to favor characters that I liked more, but I feel like there's something to be said about a Ballot being run right before we got bombshells like Cloud who changed everything.

Nowadays, a ballot gets overrun by megaton, expensive third party picks who quite frankly we don't need a ballot to tell us are popular. Social media exists and the buzz is pretty easy to gauge... yeah, Waluigi will probably do well. Crash, Dante and Master Chief are popular. Maybe the ballot serves to give communities that support characters like Isaac or Geno another opportunity to prove themselves, but even then Sakurai has already acknowledged their popularity in one form or another. Chances are it would simply affirm what everyone is already aware of, in an age where it's easier than ever to make your voice heard and rally together for visibility. So all it would achieve is more toxic in-fighting, competition and seething hatred at whoever is fortunate enough to "win".

 

[Kirbeh]

How would censorship play into speculation? For example, how would they censor 2B if they decide to put her? Same way they censored Pyra and Mythra?

She might be considered to be in the same camp as Mai, potentially ineligible. I know Yoko Taro would want her design to remain untouched, but if Square really wanted to push her for whatever reason then probably lengthening the skirt + tights + Exdeath's void combo. Probably reduce her sizes as well.

That's kinda the problem when you have Mario and Pikachu in the same game as stuff like MGS and Bayo, the T and M titles always have to hold back or compromise in some way. I'm still of the belief that a T rating would be better. (A Cero B or C for Japan would work)

Then Smash could get away with the same level of content as Street Fighter or Marvel vs Capcom or PXZ.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

She might be considered to be in the same camp as Mai, potentially ineligible. I know Yoko Taro would want her design to remain untouched, but if Square really wanted to push her for whatever reason then probably lengthening the skirt + tights + Exdeath's void combo. Probably reduce her sizes as well.

That's kinda the problem when you have Mario and Pikachu in the same game as stuff like MGS and Bayo, the T and M titles always have to hold back or compromise in some way. I'm still of the belief that a T rating would be better. (A Cero B or C for Japan would work)

Then Smash could get away with the same level of content as Street Fighter or Marvel vs Capcom or PXZ.

I can't imagine Smash going the route of PXZ with its more sexualized female cast lol That'd be weird in the same game as villager

 

[Louie G.]

How would censorship play into speculation? For example, how would they censor 2B if they decide to put her? Same way they censored Pyra and Mythra?

I don't really even think 2B needs to get changed too much, Palutena already shows off some leg and if 2B's garment is made just a little bit longer I feel like this is a pretty easy thing to work around - it hangs pretty similarly. Images are not cooperating with me right now but look at her art for FFXIV, it looks like barely anything would need to change.

I feel like the "good boys and girls" comment sent us back to the stone age in a post-Bayonetta world. Smash is not some overly puritan game, Mai is just an especially difficult character to censor and going overboard would probably be a waste of dev time for a single background character. If 2B was under heavy consideration to be playable, or anyone else for that matter, they would figure it out fairly quickly.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I can't imagine Smash going the route of PXZ with its more sexualized female cast lol That'd be weird in the same game as villager

Sorry for been a scratched record, and be the quintessential time I say this, but I'm not saying it this time.
I'm already a joke here. I'm getting old of this stuff.

Spoiler: Say it, Somari!

Spoiler

Removing all cartoon characters!

Are you all happy now!? :\

 

[Kirbeh]

I can't imagine Smash going the route of PXZ with its more sexualized female cast lol That'd be weird in the same game as villager

My go to example is moreso MvC for how it handles firearms and characters that happen to show more skin.

Stlyized gunshots for more realistic (but also slightly stylized guns) for cases like Deadpool, Chris and wacky woohoo pizza man.

And then you have characters like Morrigan, Felicia and She Hulk on the roster but their costumes, or lack thereof, aren't something that gets attention drawn to them or gets presented in an overtly sexualized manner.

Going back to Mai as an example, I don't expect her to be playable any time soon, but the fact she couldn't even make it as a cameo in the background is both silly and a shame if you ask me. She couldn't just stand there holding her fan? No big movements or jiggle physics necessary for that.

 

[Sucumbio]

See this all ties together. The prospect of another ballot to me coincides with the notion that EiH can't happen again. Let's assume that if they do another ballot that a disclaimer states beforehand that you don't have to "waste" a vote on anyone that's already in Ultimate.

Well, aside from a handful of characters who's left to include that isn't a 3rd party? That's where I'm seeing the future of smash heading. Basically there isn't a whole lot of "mascot" or "royalty" characters left for Nintendo to even put in Smash let alone NOT bringing back every Nintendo character.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

My go to example is moreso MvC for how it handles firearms and characters that happen to show more skin.

Stlyized gunshots for more realistic (but also slightly stylized guns) for cases like Deadpool, Chris and wacky woohoo pizza man.

And then you have characters like Morrigan, Felicia and She Hulk on the roster but their costumes, or lack thereof, aren't something that gets attention drawn to them or gets presented in an overtly sexualized manner.

Going back to Mai as an example, I don't expect her to be playable any time soon, but the fact she couldn't even make it as a cameo in the background is both silly and a shame if you ask me. She couldn't just stand there holding her fan? No big movements or jiggle physics necessary for that.

Its funny because Mai does have designs they could have used that arent her iconic very skimpy outfit, they just didnt.

 

[Louie G.]

Well, aside from a handful of characters who's left to include that isn't a 3rd party? That's where I'm seeing the future of smash heading.

I think the future of Smash begins to invite more third party participation out the gate, I agree. This could mean expanding on existing no-brainer returnee series like Sonic or Street Fighter, more modest scale crossover with indie developers or partners like Koei Tecmo, maybe giving Monster Hunter a content boost. None of these things feel very impractical, I suspect a decent amount of it will happen on the next base roster.

That being said, there are still plenty of Nintendo characters to add that would make audiences old and new excited. Waluigi is the big crowdpleaser, but anybody from Mario is always a safe bet. Animal Crossing and Splatoon are massive with the current audience and have plenty of potential for another character. Digging deep into the well of Zelda's history is something that many could appreciate, with potential for a nostalgic angle just as well as a contemporary one. And reviving / celebrating smaller Nintendo IPs like Golden Sun or Rhythm Heaven is always an option and quite a good one at that. We even got a few new ones with Ring Fit Adventure and Astral Chain. Not to mention the inevitable new Pokemon, and hell even if we don't get something new and exciting from Fire Emblem in the next few years... they could always add like, Lyn.

So I think the future of Smash looks a bit more inviting toward guests, taking advantage of what's available to them with some of their most ready and willing partners - Sega / Capcom / Namco have an infinite well of potential - but that is unlikely to come too heavily at the expense of first party characters. And I think most of these guys I mentioned stand on their own whether or not every Nintendo character returns.

 

[Sucumbio]

That being said, there are still plenty of Nintendo characters to add that would make audiences old and new excited.

This is very true..
Mario (Waluigi, King Boo, Kamek, Pauline, etc) is kinda odd because like FE or Pokemon they just keep getting more characters. Star Fox and Zelda have pretty much stayed put or even lost reps. Then we have the smaller rosters still like Earthbound and Pikmin. I think the smaller the roster the safer they are also. Which means looking at Star Fox again (sigh I wanted Krystal) .. I dunno. I just think the real movement in roster per series will be in the ones that actually get games and who already have reps who could "keep up with the times" so to speak. Should they KEEP promoting Awakening? Or will a time come when the FE protag getting in is only true for 3 games back and the rest are long gone?

 

[Amornal1]

I think that the next smash bros could get a new sega rep and a xbox rep, most likely a new sonic rep and crash bandicoot respectively.

 

[Sucumbio]

Inb4speedweedsplodes

 

[Louie G.]

I just think the real movement in roster per series will be in the ones that actually get games and who already have reps who could "keep up with the times" so to speak.

Newcomers will probably go dominantly toward series that are currently active, but I disagree with the pessimistic keeping up with the times perspective if I'm understanding you correctly. Series that are newer to Smash, like Animal Crossing and Splatoon, still have major characters absent from the roster. That becomes more of an effort to fill out that series' central cast just like Mario and Zelda saw in Melee, Kirby saw in Brawl or DK and Metroid saw in... well, not until Ultimate. But you get the idea. We have major series in the game missing crucial members of their cast.

Tom Nook, for example, is about as evergreen a character as you can get. He's been consistently a huge part of one of Nintendo's biggest series for over two decades. Sure bringing in more Animal Crossing content is technically keeping things modern because the series is especially hot now, but the motivation to add this character comes more from the worth of the character himself, and the widespread appeal of his series, and less so to throw some representation at the newest entry. That only really happens with Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

I think speculation-brain definitely makes us believe that this or that will happen because something is relevant or we just kinda throw up our hands and accept that we're getting new Pokemon, new FE lord, new Xenoblade character etc. But every Smash roster has had a good spread of old and new, big and small, longstanding major cast member and one or two-time main protagonist. We have plenty of opportunities for series to grow, for new series to be included, far beyond the cookie cutter mindset of simply adding the new thing.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't think we need a new Smash ballot and by god I truly, truly do not want one.

Yeah...it sure does suck how all those characters tons of people really wanted got added because of it...

Saying "I don't want another ballot" is basically saying "Nobody cares about MY most wanted characters, and I don't want them buried by characters people actually want!"

Nowadays, a ballot gets overrun by megaton, expensive third party picks who quite frankly we don't need a ballot to tell us are popular.

I call bull**** on that, because so many characters the Smash community always took as self-evidently popular, didn't actually get in until after the ballot.

Because Nintendo, notoriously, doesn't pay attention to people outside of Nintendo. Then they finally asked people "Hey...who DO you guys want, anyway?" and then we suddenly have a windfall of characters that people had been asking for for a decade being added to Ultimate.

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah...it sure does suck how all those characters tons of people really wanted got added because of it...

This is interpreting my opinion in bad faith so I'm not really gonna argue with you about it. I just believe the climate right now is different than it was a decade ago and a ballot would further provoke an unruly and intensely vocal community to be even angrier and louder. You throwing accusations at me about why I think this way is honestly just proving that point to me. We don't need a Ballot to tell us who's popular when Waluigi and Crash trend on Twitter before every new Nintendo Direct.

Because Nintendo, notoriously, doesn't pay attention to people outside of Nintendo.

Sakurai frequently stated that characters who were added as Mii Costumes were popular within the community. This included characters like Sans and Dante who almost certainly didn't have much ballot presence. Popular characters would get acknowledged in interviews before the Ballot was even a thing - Krystal, Geno, Ridley come to mind. The Ballot helped inform Ultimate's decisions but they weren't helpless without it or anything. That's the last I'll say about it.

 

[Sucumbio]

Newcomers will probably go dominantly toward series that are currently active, but I disagree with the pessimistic keeping up with the times perspective if I'm understanding you correctly.

Maybe? Idk lol I don't ever mean to be pessimistic but it's not impossible. But yes I do think Star Fox -as a series- is only aging with nothing new so I don't expect Krystal to be in the next game. That will definitely change if they announce a new game obv..

Series that are newer to Smash, like Animal Crossing and Splatoon, still have major characters absent from the roster.

Yeah so these by default are keeping up with the times because they're newer so I wasn't thinking about them. Although now that you mention it, I was surprised AC got another character bc I don't play AC and kind of mentally block it out as existing. And it's still going strong so yeah Tom Nook is totally plausible as is Octoling.

Heh actually this is a good spot to answer Swamp Sensei .

I think we will get ARMS 2.

We have major series in the game missing crucial members of their cast.

Yes. I want BWD!

Sure bringing in more Animal Crossing content is technically keeping things modern because the series is especially hot now, but the motivation to add this character comes more from the (1)worth of the character himself, and the (2)widespread appeal of his series, and less so to throw some representation at the newest entry. (3)That only really happens with Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

1 yeah, that's cool I don't try to get into the worth thing cause it's kinda hard to lock down what is worthy and also by shere mention means that a thing could be unworthy and that's just too much for me to say.
2 agreed huge series which is why I wasn't thinking of AC as an example but I said that so ...
3

I think speculation-brain definitely makes us believe that this or that will happen because something is relevant or we just kinda throw up our hands and accept that we're getting new Pokemon, new FE lord, new Xenoblade character etc. But every Smash roster has had a good spread of old and new, big and small, longstanding major cast member and one or two-time main protagonist. We have plenty of opportunities for series to grow, for new series to be included, far beyond the cookie cutter mindset of simply adding the new thing.

It is a bit simplistic, I suppose. But then we're back to the ballot you don't want. Like... Ok so if we don't vote Krystal and we don't get a new a game why in creation would they put her in?

 

[Diddy Kong]

See this all ties together. The prospect of another ballot to me coincides with the notion that EiH can't happen again. Let's assume that if they do another ballot that a disclaimer states beforehand that you don't have to "waste" a vote on anyone that's already in Ultimate.

Well, aside from a handful of characters who's left to include that isn't a 3rd party? That's where I'm seeing the future of smash heading. Basically there isn't a whole lot of "mascot" or "royalty" characters left for Nintendo to even put in Smash let alone NOT bringing back every Nintendo character.

It's a curious argument indeed. The ballot was said to be used in future Smash games. So they likely will use the same data for this speculated next game. And also keep in mind whatever is popular and eligible for new inclusions.

I'll keep saying it, but "Everyone Is Here AGAIN?!" as a DLC campain will probably be an awesome marketing stunt. Focussing on newcomers, single player content as a massive story / adventure mode, additional mechanics, move set revamps for veterans and the like as a main priority while keeping a smaller roster with a way longer DLC campaign than even Ultimate is a way I'd probably approach it as a prospect for a direction of a new Smash that should top Ultimate.

That, or 4th party inclusions honestly. Goku, Naruto, Spongebob, Spiderman, Hulk, Batman, Superman, Mickey Mouse and the like.

But I think the first situation is the more likely one.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai has specifically stated 4th Parties will never be added and while he's changed his mind on some stuff in the past, I think this is the one thing that will never change. Being a celebration of video games is what makes Smash itself, and there are still so many video game characters that can be added before we need to think about any 4th Parties.

 

[RodNutTakin]

there are probably at least 150 characters I could name easily that should get in before any non-video game character should be so much as thought about half-seriously

 

[Ivander]

there are probably at least 150 characters I could name easily that should get in before any non-video game character should be so much as thought about half-seriously

150 more Fire Emblem characters!

 

[HyperSomari64]

there are probably at least 150 characters I could name easily that should get in before any non-video game character should be so much as thought about half-seriously

Are one of these characters from the "Hyperdimension Neptunia" franchise???

 

[UserKev]

This is very true..
Mario (Waluigi, King Boo, Kamek, Pauline, etc) is kinda odd because like FE or Pokemon they just keep getting more characters. Star Fox and Zelda have pretty much stayed put or even lost reps. Then we have the smaller rosters still like Earthbound and Pikmin. I think the smaller the roster the safer they are also. Which means looking at Star Fox again (sigh I wanted Krystal) .. I dunno. I just think the real movement in roster per series will be in the ones that actually get games and who already have reps who could "keep up with the times" so to speak. Should they KEEP promoting Awakening? Or will a time come when the FE protag getting in is only true for 3 games back and the rest are long gone?

I mostly agree, but I partially disagree. We're long passed senior picks. Junior Newcomer picks concluded in Brawl that foreshadowed eventual highly fan requests with minus a couple of them that concluded in Sm4sh. I feel like if there's more Junior picks, Toad, Waluigi and maybe King Boo can fit this criteria. We're definitely down to Sophmore picks in Kamek, any other Starfox rep and AC. Etc.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

The fact that nintendo relies on one age old ballot for Smash is dumb because i was like 12 when the ballot came out so my kirby love for example hasnt been devoloped yet so i think i didnt include BWD!
But i did include steve who i know dont really care about anymore!
BTW if nintendo announces a new ballot we should all put our hands together to ensure all time favourites everyone agrees on like bandana dee get in!
Or for example all zelda fans should vote for the same character to make them more likely!

I will actively assemble a team to vote in Goku that will eclipse Bandana Dee votes.

 

[Sucumbio]

I mostly agree, but I partially disagree. We're long passed senior picks. Junior Newcomer picks concluded in Brawl that foreshadowed eventual highly fan requests with minus a couple of them that concluded in Sm4sh. I feel like if there's more Junior picks, Toad, Waluigi and maybe King Boo can fit this criteria. We're definitely down to Sophmore picks in Kamek, any other Starfox rep and AC. Etc.

AC being considered sophomore among also Star Fox tho? Like why doesn't AC still getting massive support make it a Senior tbh?

 

[HyperSomari64]

I will never know the Genesis of the "Goku for Smash" joke.

What other non-gaming characters were part of the playground rumors during the N64/GCN days?

 

[UserKev]

AC being considered sophomore among also Star Fox tho? Like why doesn't AC still getting massive support make it a Senior tbh?

AC is relatively new. I would put Tom Nook in Junior. Isabella is a sophmore pick that happened to have ironically gotten in before Nook. My hypothesis isn't really accurate, but hopefully you see the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Opossum]

AC is relatively new. I would put Tom Nook in Junior. Isabella is a sophmore pick that happened to have ironically gotten in before Nook. My hypothesis isn't really accurate, but hopefully you see the point I'm trying to make.

I think a series that's more than two decades old is far past the point of being called "relatively new."

 

[Kirbeh]

Its funny because Mai does have designs they could have used that arent her iconic very skimpy outfit, they just didnt.

I would argue her base costume is a non issue as well. A large part of what makes the costume seem particularly skimpy is with the posing and animations they give Mai as a fighter.

In her idle as fighter she's hunched over, partially facing the camera, constantly bouncing and swaying while maintaining a wide stance. If she's just standing in the background, they have plenty of posing options that would allow her to be present while staying modest.

That said, alternate costumes, as you pointed out ,are still a good option as well. It's hard to say what the exact circumstances were, but I suppose Sakurai's past/continued negative experiences with CERO may have pushed them to simply not bother. I can imagine it would have been pretty frustrating to waste time and effort making her model only to be blocked by a stubborn CERO.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Sakurai has specifically stated 4th Parties will never be added and while he's changed his mind on some stuff in the past, I think this is the one thing that will never change. Being a celebration of video games is what makes Smash itself, and there are still so many video game characters that can be added before we need to think about any 4th Parties.

The closest we'll ever get is someone like Sora, a videogame character heavily associated with animated characters.

Granted there are very, very few characters in the industry where this circumstance applies too.

 

[Louie G.]

AC is relatively new. I would put Tom Nook in Junior.

I'm confused about what the designation even means? Are we talking in a literal sense in terms of age, where "senior" is just characters like Mario and Link?

Or is it designated by popularity / notoriety, in which characters like Isabelle and Inkling would no doubt be "senior" rank by now? I guess I would agree most of the really old, really important characters are in, as well as the longest standing character requests, but I'm unsure what the point being made is if that's what we're talking about.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

How is Animal crossing at all "relatively new" when it debuted on the N64?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I suppose some people lose track of time, and to them, since they grew up with the Gamecube and Wii, it seems new to them off the top of their head, despite it not actually being new.

Time really does pass faster when you get older....