Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

Neither of Aegis's up B's are that good outside of a free for all though?

I feel like that depends on your playgroup’s skill level. Some characters and attacks are a lot stronger in low level casual play than they are in competitive environments. For example I think both Ganondorf and Little Mac are pretty strong at a casual level but once people learn how to exploit their weaknesses, they can be a lot harder to win with. Basically, it feels like the heavyweight characters are better at low levels of play and the speedy combo oriented characters are better at higher levels (as a rough generalization). Pyra’s up special is insanely powerful if you’re not really skilled enough to evade it easily.

 

[Kirbeh]

I feel like that depends on your playgroup’s skill level. Some characters and attacks are a lot stronger in low level casual play than they are in competitive environments. For example hunk both Ganondorf and Little Mac are pretty strong at a casual level but once people learn how to exploit their weaknesses, they can be a lot harder to win with. Basically, it feels like the heavyweight characters are better at low levels of play and the speedy combo oriented characters are better at higher levels (as a rough generalization). Pyra’s up special is insanely powerful if you’re not really skilled enough to evade it easily.

It pains me to say as much but even at a casual level, unless you're playing someone picking up Smash for the very first time, andare still pretty bad. In free for alls, they're completely reliant on landing hits when other players aren't paying attention to them because they're preoccupied with someone or something else like an assist or hazard.

I will concede low level play online though, you can get away with a lot with how poorly the online performance can be at times.

 

[Louie G.]

It pains me to say as much but even at a casual level, unless you're playing someone picking up Smash for the very first time, andare still pretty bad.

Which makes it funny that, in my experience, these are still two of the most popular characters among casual players. I guess for your average joe the ability to punch really, really hard is all you really need... not that I can blame them, it is pretty damn fun.

 

[Schnee117]

Which makes it funny that, in my experience, these are still two of the most popular characters among casual players. I guess for your average joe the ability to punch really, really hard is all you really need... not that I can blame them, it is pretty damn fun.

There's no better serotonin boost than landing one big hit.
Sure I'm getting ****ing destroyed but that one mega powerful hit I landed?

 

[Kirbeh]

There's no better serotonin boost than landing one big hit.
Sure I'm getting ****ing destroyed but that one mega powerful hit I landed?

Yup, landing consecutive Down Airs and trying for high risk/high reward reads (or hail Mary yoloing) Warlock Punch are some of the reasons I love playing Dorf

 

[Sucumbio]

Neither of Aegis's up B's are that good outside of a free for all though?

That's all I play really. Well teams but still. 13 million gsp vs 3 million heh I just can't seem to get the hang of ken. Meanwhile I got into elite with Terry after 3 matches lol.

 

[Kirbeh]

That's all I play really. Well teams but still. 13 million gsp vs 3 million heh I just can't seem to get the hang of ken. Meanwhile I got into elite with Terry after 3 matches lol.

What throws me off about Ken personally ,is that sometimes I just forget that he even has his extra motion input kicks. I'll either go whole sets without using them or on occasion accidentally do one and then go "Oh right, he has those."

Kinda funny in a way because when I'm playing actual Street Fighter I'll remember (provided I'm even playing Ken), but in Smash I just assume they're not there because of the simpler control scheme.

 

[Arcanir]

even though he's popular and iconic?

The problem here is that applies to pretty much every Pokemon in Smash. Even Jigglypuff is pretty iconic considering it was a recurring Pokemon in the peak of the anime, kept appearing all the way up until Gen 3, and then popped back in with Gen 7, and that's not touching it as a current staple of Smash Pokemon.

In the end, it just comes down to how priority would shape up for the batch, and Pichu has the hardest case to make. It's not the mascot, it's not as iconic as the PT Starters (well, Ivysaur kind of coasts on Bulbasaur's general popularity), it was not a breakout like Lucario and Greninja were, and so on. It is also a clone, which as we've seen historically are lower priority compared to their counterparts, and is one of two characters in Brawl that we actually have little indication that they were intended to return (unlike Mewtwo or Roy). If cuts do happen it is the one that likely would draw the shortest straw, not because it doesn't make a case to stay, but rather that the others have stronger cases to be higher priority then it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The problem here is that applies to pretty much every Pokemon in Smash. Even Jigglypuff is pretty iconic considering it was a recurring Pokemon in the peak of the anime, kept appearing all the way up until Gen 3, and then popped back in with Gen 7, and that's not touching it as a current staple of Smash Pokemon.

In the end, it just comes down to how priority would shape up for the batch, and Pichu has the hardest case to make. It's not the mascot, it's not as iconic as the PT Starters (well, Ivysaur kind of coasts on Bulbasaur's general popularity), it was not a breakout like Lucario and Greninja were, and so on. It is also a clone, which as we've seen historically are lower priority compared to their counterparts, and is one of two characters in Brawl that we actually have little indication that they were intended to return (unlike Mewtwo or Roy). If cuts do happen it is the one that likely would draw the shortest straw, not because it doesn't make a case to stay, but rather that the others have stronger cases to be higher priority then it.

Pichu is baby Pikachu. Pikachu is cute, baby Pikachu is cuter. That and Melee being clone fest made it kinda logical back then.

I for once was excited to see Pichu back.

 

[Arcanir]

Pichu is baby Pikachu. Pikachu is cute, baby Pikachu is cuter. That and Melee being clone fest made it kinda logical back then.

I for once was excited to see Pichu back.

Raichu's cutest.

And I'm not saying it was the wrong choice in Melee or a bad addition period. It potentially getting cut does not make it either, just the one that couldn't make it with the others.

 

[PeridotGX]

Yeah, that seems incredibly flimsy considering they were going hard on shilling Pichu back when Melee was being developed, which is why I act like it was either Pichu or nothing when it comes to Johto reps. The closest to TPC having a weird hangup on babies was that for most of the 2010s they weren't getting any Pokemon cards made for them, but by the time Pichu was announced for SSBU they were getting new cards.

I don't know, there's definitely some funky stuff going on with baby Pokemon. You aren't allowed to catch them in the wild in Pokemon Go, they only spawn in eggs. They also aren't in Pokemon Unite at all. It's especially weird for Lucario because Riolu is usually the exception for that kinda stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pokemon Company is strict with how Baby Pokemon are handled and there was some mild pushback with Pichu.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's especially weird for Lucario because Riolu is usually the exception for that kinda stuff.

I'd expect it be to the exception if Togekiss ever gets added, because I'd think Togepi is the most iconic member of that line anyway.

I guess they could feel iffy about them being in the same game as gun users like the Wild Gunmen and Bayonetta, but I'd think they'd feel the same way about Pikachu and Jigglypuff being in the same game as them too.

 

[Sucumbio]

I love and hope he returns as well as all the mons. I'm not sure about his future like say Pikachu but it seems good to me. If he does get axes then put in a Pro Wrestling character with costumes for star man and lizard dude

 

[DarthEnderX]

There's no better serotonin boost than landing one big hit.
Sure I'm getting ****ing destroyed but that one mega powerful hit I landed?

Yeah, that's pretty good. I prefer those ora-oras though. The one move that sends out a barrage of, like, 10 little hits.

Mii Brawler has a bunch of those, like Flashing Mach Punch, Onslaught and Helicopter Kick and I love it. I'm just sad it lost Foot Flurry from Smash 4.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Idk why Mii was nerfed in the customization department. Most of changes do feel like downgrade from Ultimate. From moves, proportions, costumes etc.

Also that Mii Brawler is the only good class to play according to the tier lists. Gunner and especially Swordfighter nerfed to oblivion

 

[Guynamednelson]

Idk why Mii was nerfed in the customization department. Most of changes do feel like downgrade from Ultimate. From moves, proportions, costumes etc.

Also that Mii Brawler is the only good class to play according to the tier lists. Gunner and especially Swordfighter nerfed to oblivion

It was easier to balance when they don't have to take Mii heights and weights into consideration.

 

[Laniv]

Not sure just how relevant this is, but Super Nintendo World is getting a Donkey Kong Country themed expansion in Spring of 2024.

BREAKING: First-Ever Donkey Kong Country in Super Nintendo World Opening Spring 2024 at Universal Studios Japan - WDW News Today

The Donkey Kong Country expansion in Super Nintendo World at Universal Studios Japan has officially announced its grand opening window.

universalparksnewstoday.com

 

[CannonStreak]

Not sure just how relevant this is, but Super Nintendo World is getting a Donkey Kong Country themed expansion in Spring of 2024.

BREAKING: First-Ever Donkey Kong Country in Super Nintendo World Opening Spring 2024 at Universal Studios Japan - WDW News Today

The Donkey Kong Country expansion in Super Nintendo World at Universal Studios Japan has officially announced its grand opening window.

universalparksnewstoday.com

I do hope King K. Rool is in it, even if he has to be in it with the Tikis or Snowmads.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Yeah, that's pretty good. I prefer those ora-oras though. The one move that sends out a barrage of, like, 10 little hits.

Mii Brawler has a bunch of those, like Flashing Mach Punch, Onslaught and Helicopter Kick and I love it. I'm just sad it lost Foot Flurry from Smash 4.

sigh

That would have been the perfect Mach Kick for my Kunio Mii Brawler.

 

[Louie G.]

Not sure just how relevant this is, but Super Nintendo World is getting a Donkey Kong Country themed expansion in Spring of 2024.

BREAKING: First-Ever Donkey Kong Country in Super Nintendo World Opening Spring 2024 at Universal Studios Japan - WDW News Today

The Donkey Kong Country expansion in Super Nintendo World at Universal Studios Japan has officially announced its grand opening window.

universalparksnewstoday.com

Isn't it strange that Rambi has yet to make a meaningful appearance in Smash? I understand it would probably be pretty tricky to design an AT who you can control and ride around in a way that would be faithful to the games, but for such an iconic part of the series I'm shocked the idea has (at least to our knowledge) never been toyed with or Rambi given some other kind of role in the game.

It's cool to see Dixie Kong here too. I've seen people doubt Nintendo's faith in and love for DK, but I think this proves that it's still very much alive. It just doesn't help matters that Retro Studios has been busy with Metroid Prime 4 for about 6-7 years now.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I understand it would probably be pretty tricky to design an AT who you can control and ride around in a way that would be faithful to the games

Just have him act as a platform. Like Gogoat does.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Not sure just how relevant this is, but Super Nintendo World is getting a Donkey Kong Country themed expansion in Spring of 2024.

BREAKING: First-Ever Donkey Kong Country in Super Nintendo World Opening Spring 2024 at Universal Studios Japan - WDW News Today

The Donkey Kong Country expansion in Super Nintendo World at Universal Studios Japan has officially announced its grand opening window.

universalparksnewstoday.com

Is it just me, or does the design look pretty similar to how the DK stuff looked in the Mario movie?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is it just me, or does the design look pretty similar to how the DK stuff looked in the Mario movie?

Wouldn't that make sense?

 

[NintenZ]

Do you have a better understanding than me of maybe a core identity that Fortnite has that is uniquely its own and would stand out in Smash? Or how they may handle original content, or flesh out a compelling moveset?

Sorry I’m late to this been sick this weekend. Fortnite has plenty of original content to pull from and characters and locations they can use, it also has a lot of weapons to use at their disposal even outside of guns, in the most recent season there is a battering ram which I think could make for a pretty good side-special or dash attack. And the building mechanics are completely different from Minecraft’s as well so I don’t think he’d be like Steve in the slightest. I think there’s a lot you could pull from Fortnite to make an interesting character, as well as plenty of content from the franchise that’s original and doesn’t rely on existing IP that could be used to fill out it’s representation.

also I like the ideas for the Mii Outfits Meowsules would be a great addition for a Mii Brawler.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Is it just me, or does the design look pretty similar to how the DK stuff looked in the Mario movie?

Yeah and new models as well, which are looking real good. Hope this means something. The aesthetics from the Mario Movie are welcome too. It was always speculated they where gonna take most inspiration from DKC Returns.

 

[RodNutTakin]

My only issue (from a practical standpoint, at least) with a Fortnite character in Smash is that Epic would most likely want something in return to put in their game, and I imagine a lot of us are aware that Nintendo turned down having a Metroid collab in Fortnite, likely because they didn't want to have their characters be visible on rival platforms (particularly PlayStation and PC).

 

[Oracle Link]

I thought again how dumb a lot of things about FF7 Remake/ Rebirth are and this is an easy one their cloud model is awful and the one from, smash bros 4 is a perfect non chibi cloud:
Original

Remake

Smash

Important are the details 1. Anime character hair is one of the most important things to get right and in the "Remake" Cloud has just random spikey hair also his outfit isnt even the slightest bit purple and i have no idea why an anime character has to look photorealistic?

Also when it comes to taunts his vioctory pose one and magic using one are great but his third taunt shouldve been a shrug he does this a ton in the game!

 

[Gengar84]

I thought again how dumb a lot of things about FF7 Remake/ Rebirth are and this is an easy one their cloud model is awful and the one from, smash bros 4 is a perfect non chibi cloud:
Original
View attachment 381326
Remake

Smash
View attachment 381327
Important are the details 1. Anime character hair is one of the most important things to get right and in the "Remake" Cloud has just random spikey hair also his outfit isnt even the slightest bit purple and i have no idea why an anime character has to look photorealistic?

Also when it comes to taunts his vioctory pose one and magic using one are great but his third taunt shouldve been a shrug he does this a ton in the game!

I wouldn’t say the remake designs are awful but I do prefer Smash’s designs for both Cloud and Sephiroth. I think Remake was a step up from Advent Children at least. I do agree that I like the anime aesthetic the original games and Smash have. My personal favorite designs for the characters are the original artworks like the one at the top. I’d love to see models try to get as close to that style as possible and I think Smash is the closest we have so far.

These Bring Arts figures are basically exactly what I’d want to see as video game models:

 

[dream1ng]

My only issue (from a practical standpoint, at least) with a Fortnite character in Smash is that Epic would most likely want something in return to put in their game, and I imagine a lot of us are aware that Nintendo turned down having a Metroid collab in Fortnite, likely because they didn't want to have their characters be visible on rival platforms (particularly PlayStation and PC).

Having your character included in Smash isn't doing Nintendo a favor, Smash is a huge game and the companies are all compensated for having their content licensed. That's what they get in return. Money.

Smash doesn't need Fortnite and Fortnite doesn't need Smash, so mandating some sort of reciprocation would likely only break down negotiation. If Epic actually wants Fortnite to be in Smash, they're not going to force an ultimatum they'd presumably lose. Because Nintendo doesn't want Fortnite in Smash more than it wants to keep its IP on proprietary consoles.

Isn't it strange that Rambi has yet to make a meaningful appearance in Smash? I understand it would probably be pretty tricky to design an AT who you can control and ride around in a way that would be faithful to the games, but for such an iconic part of the series I'm shocked the idea has (at least to our knowledge) never been toyed with or Rambi given some other kind of role in the game.

It isn't that strange to me, DK typically seems to get somewhat anemic representation in Smash unless the fans make themselves heard. Diddy and K. Rool only got in when they were among the very most popular characters after at least one game where they didn't. It took until Ultimate to get a DK AT. The DKC games have barely had an item from them. Content from like half the DKC games seems pretty light.

I mean at no point in Smash could you argue the DK content was overabundant, which is something that can't be said for most of the very longstanding, major Nintendo IPs in the series.

 

[RileyXY1]

It isn't that strange to me, DK typically seems to get somewhat anemic representation in Smash unless the fans make themselves heard. Diddy and K. Rool only got in when they were among the very most popular characters after at least one game where they didn't. It took until Ultimate to get a DK AT. The DKC games have barely had an item from them. Content from like half the DKC games seems pretty light.

I mean at no point in Smash could you argue the DK content was overabundant, which is something that can't be said for most of the very longstanding, major Nintendo IPs in the series.

Not to mention that DK only got three out of his five stages back, which came from Melee at the latest. Metroid is in the same boat, except that series has gotten more substantial content over the years.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Remake Tifa is the pinnacle of human achievement.

 

[Sucumbio]

Not to mention that DK only got three out of his five stages back, which came from Melee at the latest. Metroid is in the same boat, except that series has gotten more substantial content over the years.

Wait isn't the rotating stage new in Ultimate or did I just not notice it in 4...

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah, that seems incredibly flimsy considering they were going hard on shilling Pichu back when Melee was being developed, which is why I act like it was either Pichu or nothing when it comes to Johto reps. The closest to TPC having a weird hangup on babies was that for most of the 2010s they weren't getting any Pokemon cards made for them, but by the time Pichu was announced for SSBU they were getting new cards.

Wasn't the reason they weren't getting cards because due to the way the card game functions, the baby cards are basically useless? I'm not an authority on the tcg, it's been literal decades since I've played it, but I remember hearing that.

I mean the baby characters are in the actual games. You can attack them. I don't think the problem was violence against those characters.

Not to mention that DK only got three out of his five stages back, which came from Melee at the latest. Metroid is in the same boat, except that series has gotten more substantial content over the years.

The stage thing I put less stock into, because Jungle Hijinx was hampered by its gimmick w/ stage morph and several of the scrolling stages didn't return because barely anyone likes those ****ing things and they're comparatively probably more work, so the priority just went elsewhere.

Though it has six stages, I think you're forgetting 75m. Which is... understandable.

Wait isn't the rotating stage new in Ultimate or did I just not notice it in 4...

Brinstar Depths? It wasn't in 4, just Melee and Ultimate. Mario and Zelda were the only existing series to get new stages in base.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Wasn't the reason they weren't getting cards because due to the way the card game functions, the baby cards are basically useless? I'm not an authority on the tcg, it's been literal decades since I've played it, but I remember hearing that.

Cleffa actually had an annoying card to play against:

Its one move has no energy cost and puts it to sleep, and its ability makes it virtually invulnerable in that state.

 

[Gengar84]

Cleffa actually had an annoying card to play against:

Its one move has no energy cost and puts it to sleep, and its ability makes it virtually invulnerable in that state.

There’s still a 50/50 shot you’ll wake up between turns and Cleffa’s HP basically guarantees it gets one shot. Not saying it’s not good but I wouldn’t call it invulnerable. The card advantage is good enough to risk giving up a prize, especially with the lack of energy requirement.

 

[Noipoi]

Remake Tifa is the pinnacle of human achievement.

The Italians certainly think so

 

[Guynamednelson]

Not saying it’s not good but I wouldn’t call it invulnerable.

I did say "virtually invulnerable" anyway. Virtually everyone uses "virtually" as "not quite" anyway.

 

[Gengar84]

I did say "virtually invulnerable" anyway. Virtually everyone uses "virtually" as "not quite" anyway.

Fair enough. It’s the mostly same level of invulnerability as a creature with a flip a coin paralysis attack but you are gaining card advantage the whole time instead of dealing damage. Flip a coin para is a bit worse since players can evolve or use trainers to switch out. I think there is a Stadium that makes players have to flip two coins instead of one to wake up so that helps it even more.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I wouldn’t say the remake designs are awful but I do prefer Smash’s designs for both Cloud and Sephiroth. I think Remake was a step up from Advent Children at least. I do agree that I like the anime aesthetic the original games and Smash have. My personal favorite designs for the characters are the original artworks like the one at the top. I’d love to see models try to get as close to that style as possible and I think Smash is the closest we have so far.

These Bring Arts figures are basically exactly what I’d want to see as video game models:

View attachment 381334
View attachment 381335
View attachment 381336

God, I want one of these figures on my shelf.

Remake Tifa is the pinnacle of human achievement.

Perfect adaptation of an anime character design into a "realistic" looking person.

I like how you can see abs.

 

[Gengar84]

God, I want one of these figures on my shelf.

Perfect adaptation of an anime character design into a "realistic" looking person.

I like how you can see abs.

Me too. The only issue is how expensive they are. I tried to set a limit for myself not to spend over $65 on a figure but these are tempting. I think I’d cave in if they made a Magus figure though. It’s kind of crazy there are still no Chrono Trigger figures.