Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Kirbeh]

This might be my own cynicism talking, but I think to some fans, FE is simply a franchise that gets in new Smash entries regardless of context. With new characters in Melee, Brawl, base 4, DLC for 4, base Ultimate, DLC for Ultimate? For that crowd it's not a case of recent games or popular selections, just an inevitability of the Smash cycle that more pessimistic types possibly think is always rooted in Nintendo/Sakurai elevating the IP. I'm not saying it's a valid viewpoint or even that's the reasoning in this video, just a suspicion about where some of this type of thinking is rooted in.

In a few extreme cases I don't think it's even driven by fans of FE and/or FE characters; just a wearied and/or quietly resentful segment of players/speculators that have thrown up their hands and just express a variation of "and a Fire Emblem fighter will get in because of course they get in" because for them it's better to accept that now than be put off at their hypothetical reveal; the Smash cycle equivalent of preparing oneself for the reality that at least one of your gifts at Christmas will be socks.

While I do think that's; definitely the case for some, I do think it's a fair if vague selection speculation wise. We have consistently gotten more FE characters and aside from Chrom who was an echo, they were all recent/upcoming characters. People simply dropped FE into the same box as Pokemon. Whether you're an FE fan or not it j just seems like a safe choice.

Agreeing with the choice is one thing, but I can't really blame people for doing the whole placeholder slot thing at this point. At least not for these two franchises.

 

[Opossum]

I think the other thing that's not being considered is that, like...

The main reason Fire Emblem seemingly always has new, recent candidates is that Fire Emblem itself has a very consistent release cycle. You can count the times where there was a period of more than two years between Fire Emblem games on one hand, and two of those times involved the creator of the series leaving (the three years between Thracia 776 and Binding Blade) and the pandemic (the three and a half years between Three Houses and Engage...hell, from the internal files of the latter, we know Engage was supposed to release in 2021).

 

[RouffWestie]

Intelligent Systems is one of the only companies regularly making new entries in their franchise, at this point every 1-2 years, and almost always starring a new protagonist due to the nature of the series, and they're a direct partner with Nintendo. They're always going to be in a good position for getting a newcomer.

 

[Captain Fun]

Intelligent Systems is one of the only companies regularly making new entries in their franchise, at this point every 1-2 years, and almost always starring a new protagonist due to the nature of the series, and they're a direct partner with Nintendo. They're always going to be in a good position for getting a newcomer.

Pretty much. FE, along with Kirby and some others always have a team dedicated to making new entries, rather than being shuffled around to different projects. Intelligent systems will always be making FE games (alongside their other work on WarioWare and Paper Mario) whereas Metroid and Donkey Kong don’t have a single ‘home’ studio dedicated to them.

 

[Speed Weed]

I feel like some people have it in their heads that Fire Emblem always gets a new spot in Smash just because. Like it is this unbreakable law of nature that Sakurai will always add a new Fire Emblem just because He Feels Like It I Guess. As people have pointed out - it's a matter of consistent releases and very very lucky timing. 9 times out of 10, whenever they want to promote a new Nintendo thing in Smash, there's a hot new Fire Emblem with an all-new cast freshly available to pick from. This does mean that new Fremblems will continue to be a likely prospect going forward if only because of consistent releases, but it also means that there is some wiggle room, that one remaining time out of 10, where the timing doesn't work out as well, and I feel that is very much what will happen with Engage - and in that specific situation I don't think it makes sense to be like Yeah We're Always Gonna Get A New Fire Emblem Because Sakurai Just Really Likes Putting In Fire Emblem Characters. I think it's fine to predict a reserved spot for a new FE char most of the time given how often the timing works out, but I also think it's important to understand why that's the case instead of just assuming the Smash team makes it a personal rule to always put in a new FE character just because, regardless of circumstance. It's more nuanced than that.

 

[fogbadge]

I always find the logic that “FE gets a lot of newcomers to promote a lot of games cause they make a lot” quite peculiar cause it doesn’t account for other series that don’t get the same treatment. Personally I find the promotional argument quite weak cause it seems to imply that it was the only game they could promote. Three houses came out in the same year as super Mario maker 2, Luigi’s mansion 3, the links awakening remake and Pokemon sword and shield. Even astral chain a hot new ip you think they’d want to promote. So unless for some reason only a game released in that one month could do, the idea is that Nintendo and sakurai both decided to overlook their more popular series in favour of another character from a series they acknowledge the fans feel overrepped? And we know it wasn’t popularity cause sak said he was working on byleth before the game was so before it was declared a high point for the series

in short, the promotional excuse doesn’t make sense cause no one ever explains why they chose to promote FE over everything else

 

[dream1ng]

FE will probably balance itself out in the sense that the count will not build indefinitely, and FE more than most will likely become a rotating door of sorts, with a few staples, but mostly a fairly fluid selection based on recency and perhaps popularity. I think Pokemon and Xenoblade will experience this as well, though the former will probably have more fixed fighters, and the latter has much less representation so may not lose anyone yet (at least including later DLC).

So if the next Smash builds itself up again, and the cuts are significant enough, and the timing works in a way favorable to this, what could happen is they add Lyn to base with the advanced provision of an upcoming/too late for base promotional character becomes DLC. But I only see Lyn getting added if they make a pretty thorough number of cuts to the series that it would result in prioritizing two original newcomers, one of whom wasn't promotional.

Sadly I think the likelier option is just cuts and the new promotional addition, be it Alear or someone newer.

But I suppose that's ultimately better than being like most series, where a new addition often isn't even in the cards, let alone seemingly assured.

I feel like some people have it in their heads that Fire Emblem always gets a new spot in Smash just because. Like it is this unbreakable law of nature that Sakurai will always add a new Fire Emblem just because He Feels Like It I Guess. As people have pointed out - it's a matter of consistent releases and very very lucky timing. 9 times out of 10, whenever they want to promote a new Nintendo thing in Smash, there's a hot new Fire Emblem with an all-new cast freshly available to pick from. This does mean that new Fremblems will continue to be a likely prospect going forward if only because of consistent releases, but it also means that there is some wiggle room, that one remaining time out of 10, where the timing doesn't work out as well, and I feel that is very much what will happen with Engage - and in that specific situation I don't think it makes sense to be like Yeah We're Always Gonna Get A New Fire Emblem Because Sakurai Just Really Likes Putting In Fire Emblem Characters. I think it's fine to predict a reserved spot for a new FE char most of the time given how often the timing works out, but I also think it's important to understand why that's the case instead of just assuming the Smash team makes it a personal rule to always put in a new FE character just because, regardless of circumstance. It's more nuanced than that.

Yes it's not a case of Sakurai bias, as people ascribe it to, and FE won't get a new character "just cause" if the releases stop. But assuming they don't (which they probably won't), there's no salient reason not to expect a FE newcomer.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean it has to happen in base, and games could definitely be skipped if they lapse as newest, but given this status quo seems to be at the behest of Nintendo/IS, that is a constant which seems unlikely to change.

 

[Speed Weed]

Yes it's not a case of Sakurai bias, as people ascribe it to, and FE won't get a new character "just cause" if the releases stop. But assuming they don't (which they probably won't), there's no salient reason not to expect a FE newcomer.

I mean I did say that the vast majority of times there is good reason to expect a new FE character

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Fire emblem at this point is a comfort series that always seems to be there in an era where developers take forever to make a new game. Makes perfect sense to me that it always gets new things in smash.

Its not like Zelda where it aleways hibernates for a lifetime between new entries.

 

[Opossum]

I always find the logic that “FE gets a lot of newcomers to promote a lot of games cause they make a lot” quite peculiar cause it doesn’t account for other series that don’t get the same treatment. Personally I find the promotional argument quite weak cause it seems to imply that it was the only game they could promote. Three houses came out in the same year as super Mario maker 2, Luigi’s mansion 3, the links awakening remake and Pokemon sword and shield. Even astral chain a hot new ip you think they’d want to promote. So unless for some reason only a game released in that one month could do, the idea is that Nintendo and sakurai both decided to overlook their more popular series in favour of another character from a series they acknowledge the fans feel overrepped? And we know it wasn’t popularity cause sak said he was working on byleth before the game was so before it was declared a high point for the series

in short, the promotional excuse doesn’t make sense cause no one ever explains why they chose to promote FE over everything else

Mario Maker and Luigi's Mansion literally already had characters in Smash. Mario and Luigi. Astral Chain was an unproven IP that could have flopped, but didn't.

Three Houses was a game with an entirely new cast in a long running series. The only other point of comparison is Sword and Shield, and at that point it's probably just a timing thing.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I always find the logic that “FE gets a lot of newcomers to promote a lot of games cause they make a lot” quite peculiar cause it doesn’t account for other series that don’t get the same treatment. Personally I find the promotional argument quite weak cause it seems to imply that it was the only game they could promote. Three houses came out in the same year as super Mario maker 2, Luigi’s mansion 3, the links awakening remake and Pokemon sword and shield. Even astral chain a hot new ip you think they’d want to promote. So unless for some reason only a game released in that one month could do, the idea is that Nintendo and sakurai both decided to overlook their more popular series in favour of another character from a series they acknowledge the fans feel overrepped? And we know it wasn’t popularity cause sak said he was working on byleth before the game was so before it was declared a high point for the series

in short, the promotional excuse doesn’t make sense cause no one ever explains why they chose to promote FE over everything else

My theory is that the smash team, like Pokemon fans, didnt like Sword and shield either so they figured people wouldnt appreciate a newcomer from it.

 

[Noipoi]

Sword and Shield seems to be a case of unfortunate timing for that particular game. Sandwiched riiight in-between the first and second Fighters Passes.

And while I think it wouldn't have been impossible to try and get a Galar Pokemon for the second pass, Incineroar was already filling the new Pokemon slot, so I don't think they saw it as a very high priority.

 

[fogbadge]

Mario Maker and Luigi's Mansion literally already had characters in Smash. Mario and Luigi. Astral Chain was an unproven IP that could have flopped, but didn't.

Three Houses was a game with an entirely new cast in a long running series. The only other point of comparison is Sword and Shield, and at that point it's probably just a timing thing.

and what we couldn’t use any of the new characters from these games? we couldn’t use king boo the big bad or say Toadette who has a prominent role in SMM2? and surely it would make more sense to promote the new series to give it a boost?

as for sword and shield, we already know sakurai is allowed behind the scenes at Pokemon so why not?

My theory is that the smash team, like Pokemon fans, didnt like Sword and shield either so they figured people wouldnt appreciate a newcomer from it.

yeah but the character was chosen at a point before FE released let alone Pokemon so how could that possibly effect it

 

[dream1ng]

I always find the logic that “FE gets a lot of newcomers to promote a lot of games cause they make a lot” quite peculiar cause it doesn’t account for other series that don’t get the same treatment. Personally I find the promotional argument quite weak cause it seems to imply that it was the only game they could promote. Three houses came out in the same year as super Mario maker 2, Luigi’s mansion 3, the links awakening remake and Pokemon sword and shield. Even astral chain a hot new ip you think they’d want to promote. So unless for some reason only a game released in that one month could do, the idea is that Nintendo and sakurai both decided to overlook their more popular series in favour of another character from a series they acknowledge the fans feel overrepped? And we know it wasn’t popularity cause sak said he was working on byleth before the game was so before it was declared a high point for the series

in short, the promotional excuse doesn’t make sense cause no one ever explains why they chose to promote FE over everything else

Choosing a game to promote doesn't mean it was their only choice, it just means it's the one they opted for.

There are unique factors with all these things. Keep in mind facets like it being pretty much the rotational or unrepresented series which have received promotional additions like FE, XC, and Pokemon, not static ones like Mario, Kirby, Metroid, (sort of) Zelda. That the series still seems to have to hit a certain threshold of success, so we'd get ARMS, but good luck for stuff like Dillon or Ever Oasis (which could actually use the promotion). That there are additional parties with some promotion-heavy series like GF, IS, and potentially Monolith, who each hold some degree of bargaining power.

Saying they promoted x doesn't mean they couldn't have promoted y instead, it just means they chose not to. Not knowing the exact marketing reason doesn't mean it's false, especially since Sakurai has overtly said execs told him to put characters like Corrin and Byleth in, and that he agrees FE is overrepresented. It's possible Nintendo sees potential value in funnelling the Smash fanbase towards certain series they think would be a good demographic overlap.

And fwiw they probably would've promoted Astral Chain had it lined up with character selection, but it didn't. FP2 was already decided before it (and Ring Fit) became proven successes.

 

[Ivander]

I mean I did say that the vast majority of times there is good reason to expect a new FE character

Yep.

• With Brawl, Path of Radiance was out and Radiant Dawn was coming out, so Ike made sense for both popularity and marketing reasons.
• Smash 4, Awakening had recently come out to critical acclaim, so of course Awakening would absolutely get a character regardless if it was Chrom Lucina or Robin. And it was mentioned that Smash 4 DLC was Corrin's only chance at getting in otherwise they would've missed getting in.
• Smash Ultimate, Echoes had recently come out, so people were expecting the possibility of Alm or Celica in Smash Ultimate. To people's shock, Chrom got in by popularity from the Smash Ballot and being able to be made into an Echo Fighter like Dark Samus.
  And with Three Houses being recently released to high acclaim during Fighter Pass 1, people began expecting a Three Houses rep for the 2nd Fighters Pass when it was announced. No one was just expecting Byleth to get in earlier in FP1.

With all that said, I think part of Fire Emblem's stigma is because of Corrin releasing before Fates came out to the West, when some people didn't know Fates had already come to Japan already and I think Byleth's development starting before Three Houses came out for FP1 similar to how Greninja was picked through concept art before Pokemon X & Y came out. Because of that, some people have gotten this negative impression that a spot for a Fire Emblem character is just reserved when Smash Bros. is being developed.

Edit: And no, Corrin wasn't suggested by the executives. Corrin was suggested by the Smash team working under Sakurai and while Sakurai was concerned about the amount of Reps, especially after Roy coming back, they still urged him that they could make Corrin unique and fun to play.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

and what we couldn’t use any of the new characters from these games? we couldn’t use king boo the big bad or say Toadette who has a prominent role in SMM2? and surely it would make more sense to promote the new series to give it a boost?

as for sword and shield, we already know sakurai is allowed behind the scenes at Pokemon so why not?


yeah but the character was chosen at a point before FE released let alone Pokemon so how could that possibly effect it

They very clearly get to look at these games early.

And if you look at three houses and Sword/shield side by side it's pretty clear which is the better game lol

 

[Noipoi]

Corrin is single-handedly responsible for Fire Emblem's negative reputation in the Smash scene and they should be ashamed.

 

[NintenZ]

I think we would get a Fire Emblem character that releases closer to when the next Smash comes out and not the one from the game that launched at the beginning of the year that was a holdover title because of the pandemic in a game with other more popular protagonists.

 

[Louie G.]

The only truly egregious Fire Emblem addition in my opinion is Corrin. I guess I don't have much more to elaborate on there aside from what we already know and what Ivander just said in their post above, but I feel like the series would be in a slightly more comfortable spot had that last DLC spot went to anyone else. The bright side of it is that Corrin is still fun and creative, but I think the Smash team is capable of making magic with just about anyone.

The newest protagonist at the time of release , a clone and a fan favorite veteran were all easy enough to digest on their own. And then nobody really had any issues with Chrom when he was revealed for Ultimate, and Byleth... well I dunno, maybe it would have went over better without Corrin slapped in the middle. EVERYONE IS HERE kinda let the perceived oversaturation from last game continue to simmer - for all intents and purposes, Ultimate is an extension of Smash 4's hype cycle. At least you could say Byleth's game was able to come out and be a success before they became playable.

Who knows what Fire Emblem in Smash looks like next time around, but I can tell you it won't have 8 characters and it was never really supposed to. It's a shame the credibility of these characters on their own has taken such a major hit in the eyes of the community due to the unique circumstances but I think it's a solvable problem, which was in turn really only a "problem" once anyway.

 

[NintenZ]

Here's a hot take though, not fond of Corrin as a character but I think their inclusion aged well just because of how successful Fates was.

They're probably the weakest link in terms of Fire Emblem characters but Fates was successful to the point where I find their inclusion... Justifiable, ideally they would've added them after the game came out worldwide but eh, what happened happened.

 

[Arcanir]

I do sometimes wonder if picking someone like Elma over Corrin would've mitigated some of the negativity. Corrin definitely felt like the straw that broke the camel's back as before people were willing to shrug off Lucina and Roy back then, but Corrin just seems to have broken discussion as it became the 'favorite' and many started to pick on it.

It also probably didn't help that Fates has mixed reception so even among FE fans it wasn't a highly liked addition.

 

[NintenZ]

I think if it was Elma or Azura then like it would've been less negative in terms of blowback back then.

One was from an up-and-coming series that wasn't the most represented and then would've probably been the best chance to include them, the other while from the same franchise as the character we got was more prominent in ads for the game which probably would've made people more familiar with the character and had a lance which I think would've been a lot more accepted compared to another sword user.

At the same time I've just moved on, it's been eight years I can't really complain anymore especially with all the other characters Smash has gotten. I'm more focused on the future of Smash.

 

[Ivander]

The only truly egregious Fire Emblem addition in my opinion is Corrin. I guess I don't have much more to elaborate on there aside from what we already know and what Ivander just said in their post above, but I feel like the series would be in a slightly more comfortable spot had that last DLC spot went to anyone else. The bright side of it is that Corrin is still fun and creative, but I think the Smash team is capable of making magic with just about anyone.

The newest protagonist at the time of release , a clone and a fan favorite veteran were all easy enough to digest on their own. And then nobody really had any issues with Chrom when he was revealed for Ultimate, and Byleth... well I dunno, maybe it would have went over better without Corrin slapped in the middle. EVERYONE IS HERE kinda let the perceived oversaturation from last game continue to simmer - for all intents and purposes, Ultimate is an extension of Smash 4's hype cycle. At least you could say Byleth's game was able to come out and be a success before they became playable.

Who knows what Fire Emblem in Smash looks like next time around, but I can tell you it won't have 8 characters and it was never really supposed to. It's a shame the credibility of these characters on their own has taken such a major hit in the eyes of the community due to the unique circumstances but I think it's a solvable problem, which was in turn really only a "problem" once anyway.

No, Byleth's biggest problem was releasing at the time when Three Houses had released recently, like around 6-7 months before Byleth's reveal, when there was a hype train because our only characters during FP1 before Byleth was 3rd Party characters and when Capcom thought it'd be a great time to hype up Devil May Cry and Dante a frickin' day before the Fighter reveal.....thanks Capcom...
But seriously, even without Corrin, Smash fans would've brought up a ****storm because they got Byleth instead of Dante in a Fighter's Pass with almost all 3rd Parties when Three Houses had recently released around half a year ago. And the Reaction crowd didn't help either. Byleth's reception was doomed.

And for people who want more unique stuff from Fire Emblem to be represented in Smash Bros, taking out Corrin would be the exact opposite of that. Corrin may not be as popular as the other characters, but Corrin is also our only Manakete and the only one who can use other parts of their Dragon form to attack outside of their transformation. Which other Manaketes not from Fates, like Tiki, cannot do outside of wings. Not to mention the gimmick for early Manaketes where they are completely helpless without their transformation.
And taking out some of the FE characters with similar movesets to Marth isn't going to reduce the negative reception if the new Fire Emblem character is once again, a Lord with a Sword that still has similarities to Marth.

 

[NintenZ]

Here's an idea I wanted to bring up, what about another WarioWare character? I think at this point with Get It Together being a huge success that you could justify another one pretty easy, I think the idea of a character from it is overlooked.

Ashley is the popular choice but it doesn't have to be her.

What about Mona? I think her using things like her bike and boomerang and elements from the various jobs she works at. I think that could make for a pretty interesting character.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

What's funny is that at the time I was pretty okay with Corrin. While I wasn't and am not a FE fan per say, I was aware that Fates was one of the few big successes Nintendo had during a struggling time period and while they never would have been my first choice for newcomer first party DLC, highlighting someone from one of the games that was actually doing decent numbers made sense to me.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I always wanted Mona over Ashley.

I think you could make a moveset based around the various oddjobs she has had over the series.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Here's an idea I wanted to bring up, what about another WarioWare character? I think at this point with Get It Together being a huge success that you could justify another one pretty easy, I think the idea of a character from it is overlooked.

Ashley is the popular choice but it doesn't have to be her.

View attachment 381088

What about Mona? I think her using things like her bike and boomerang and elements from the various jobs she works at. I think that could make for a pretty interesting character.

I think Mona could make for an interesting addition, but I'm still kinda on the Ashley train for a second WarioWare character, alongside potentially Red if he can fit into her moveset.

 

[NintenZ]

I think Mona could make for an interesting addition, but I'm still kinda on the Ashley train for a second WarioWare character, alongside potentially Red if he can fit into her moveset.

Honestly I'd be fine with anyone from the franchise, Ashley and Mona would probably be the ones I'd go for but ones like Jimmy T could also be pretty cool.

 

[Ivander]

What's funny is that at the time I was pretty okay with Corrin. While I wasn't and am not a FE fan per say, I was aware that Fates was one of the few big successes Nintendo had during a struggling time period and while they never would have been my first choice for newcomer first party DLC, highlighting someone from one of the games that was actually doing decent numbers made sense to me.

Yeah, Fates still sold pretty well despite it's reception and while not as much as Awakening, where Awakening's sales single-handedly saved Fire Emblem, it was still decently close. It was only Fire Emblem Echoes that didn't sell anywhere near as those two and it still sold above expectations for IS.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly I'd be fine with anyone from the franchise, Ashley and Mona would probably be the ones I'd go for but ones like Jimmy T could also be pretty cool.

Honestly yeah, I'm thinking about it now and I'd also be perfectly okay with characters like Jimmy, Crygor, Dribble and Spitz, Orbulon...

I also think 9-Volt would be really funny if they gave him like a Palutena's Guidance thing but instead of anything helpful for a fight, he and 18-Volt (and occasionally 5-Volt) just absolutely nerd out about any character they fight against lol

 

[Noipoi]

Ashley or Mona would be cool.

9-Volt could attack the Nintendo characters with Nintendo.

 

[Ivander]

Here's an idea I wanted to bring up, what about another WarioWare character? I think at this point with Get It Together being a huge success that you could justify another one pretty easy, I think the idea of a character from it is overlooked.

Ashley is the popular choice but it doesn't have to be her.

View attachment 381088

What about Mona? I think her using things like her bike and boomerang and elements from the various jobs she works at. I think that could make for a pretty interesting character.

Mona would be interesting, although I want to see her more in something like Mario Kart first before Smash Bros. Heck, considering that supposedly Wario did take her treasure hunting at one point, I think it'd be great if she became a helper for Wario in a new WarioLand game, where she helps out Wario as a shopkeeper/item holder and an ally in some maps.
I think something like that would not only help her character and popularity, but also her moveset potential to be more than just her boomerang and whatever related to the jobs she's had in WarioWare. But sadly, that would require Nintendo actually giving WarioLand some attention.

Ashley I think is the easiest choice because besides curses and whatnot, her gameplay in the WarioWare games is very shoot-em-up like, like her gameplay in Game & Wario and Get It Together and the Pumpkin Patch game from WarioWare Gold.

 

[toonito]

re: FE reps in Smash

The reason people feel FE is an inevitability:

Melee, Brawl, base 4, 4 DLC, base Ultimate, Ultimate FP1

without fail there's been a FE character in every Smash game since its debut in Melee. Only Mario and Pokemon have longer "streaks" in Smash. Kirby, DK, and Zelda, three more successful franchises, are not nearly as represented (two of which havent had new characters since Brawl)

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

re: FE reps in Smash

The reason people feel FE is an inevitability:

Melee, Brawl, base 4, 4 DLC, base Ultimate, Ultimate FP1

without fail there's been a FE character in every Smash game since its debut in Melee. Only Mario and Pokemon have longer "streaks" in Smash. Kirby, DK, and Zelda, three more successful franchises, are not nearly as represented (two of which havent had new characters since Brawl)

And even then, Mario's streak got broken in Brawl when the only thing that happened was losing Doc lol

Though of course I know people also count Wario sometimes even though I personally don't because he has a different series icon

 

[Ivander]

And even then, Mario's streak got broken in Brawl when the only thing that happened was losing Doc lol

I think they were including Wario because Wario is still very much a Mario character, even if his main look represents WarioWare.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I wish Warioware would just be lumped in with Mario, Wario's characters would be so cool to see in the Mario spin offs.

 

[SPEN18]

It's not just Corrin, though that did push things over the top. People were grumbling as soon as the Robin/Lucina reveal. As wrong as it turned out to be, a very common expectation going into 4 was that Ike would be cut and replaced by Chrom, Fire Emblem would stay at 2 characters, and the likes of Kirby, DK, and Zelda would all get newcomers. Instead, FE went up to 4 characters while Kirby, DK, and Zelda stayed put. And so seeds were planted.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I wish Warioware would just be lumped in with Mario, Wario's characters would be so cool to see in the Mario spin offs.

I'm honestly shocked we haven't even seen something like Diamond City as a Mario Kart course outside of the one in one of the GP arcade games I think?

Like Mario Kart has courses for Yoshi's Island, DKCR, Hyrule, Mute City and Big Blue, an Animal Crossing town, and a battle map for Splatoon, but Wario can't go street racing in the town he works?

 

[Ivander]

It's not just Corrin, though that did push things over the top. People were grumbling as soon as the Robin/Lucina reveal. As wrong as it turned out to be, a very common expectation going into 4 was that Ike would be cut and replaced by Chrom, Fire Emblem would stay at 2 characters, and the likes of Kirby, DK, and Zelda would all get newcomers. Instead, FE went up to 4 characters while Kirby, DK, and Zelda stayed put. And so seeds were planted.

If there were, very few did, because I remember most of the grumblings being towards Kid Icarus, especially when Dark Pit was confirmed.

 

[Sucumbio]

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