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This is more confusing than Nabbitfan thinking the fanbase must shrink, but at the same time they gotta do something like Smash vs. Shonen Jump or a movie instead of a game.
That won't open floodgates.
There have been nearly twenty third party characters in Smash, and I don't think that anyone would say that the characters that we've got so far have lowered the bar to the level where someone like Bubsy would be expected.
), long-lasting popularity or demand when it comes to Smash (ex. ), or are generally seen as one of the best examples of their genre. (ex. ) Even if there are cases where people might not have wanted a certain character in the game, I feel like most people would be able to understand why the third party characters that are currently in the game have been included.
This seems like a very poorly disguised scrimblo post.
It's weird to see Simon be considered a Scrimblo Bimblo. Sure, he debuted in a platformer, much like various cartoony animals, but...
The exception that proves the rule I say.It's weird to see Simon be considered a Scrimblo Bimblo. Sure, he debuted in a platformer, much like various cartoony animals, but...
do I even need to say it?
Wait, you mean that's not a tail?It's weird to see Simon be considered a Scrimblo Bimblo. Sure, he debuted in a platformer, much like various cartoony animals, but...
do I even need to say it?
It could be a case of not having enough time to add everything back. If we bring back Pac-Man back and add a Tales rep, Kazuya might just slip through the cracks. If we add Alucard, Simon might need to take a backseat. It's not even a permanent goodbye, they could very easily be DLC or in a future game.
Thats a good point, a number of characters have had to be cut or held off due to timing issues. A lot depends on how well Ultimates code and models can be used when this new game is made.
Yeah, Chief or Doomguy seem to have the best shot for Microsofts next slot. Maybe Dragonborn if it isn’t them.
He could be considered an honorary Scrimblo Bimblo, that role also goes to Ryu HayabusaIt's weird to see Simon be considered a Scrimblo Bimblo. Sure, he debuted in a platformer, much like various cartoony animals, but...
do I even need to say it?
Pretty much anyone can get cut for any reason. Just look at clones-with their reused animations, you'd think they would never get cut since they don't have to make that many more, but even with 4 not focusing as hard on making clones more distinct as Brawl did, half of Melee's clones still had to wait, whether it was for DLC or for Ultimate.
I get what you're saying, but just because there's understanding and logic here, doesn't mean it must all be unanimously accepted. You're right that, for the most part, the third parties they've added fit the quota Smash goes by. But I find the problem lies in how many outside IPs they've added in such a small window of time, in comparison to the additions from anything that's already been in Smash before. I'll admit it's not strictly a problem that has to be pinned on third-parties, even if that's what a lot of the new series introduced are. But the rate Smash is currently growing at doesn't factor any of the preexisting flaws in the smaller aspects of the crossover, which haven't really been altered all that well.There have been nearly twenty third party characters in Smash, and I don't think that anyone would say that the characters that we've got so far have lowered the bar to the level where someone like Bubsy would be expected.
(I don't know how many people have played Bubsy, but I played it on the SNES - it was a terrible Sonic the Hedgehog knock-off designed by someone who seemingly wanted to cash in on the craze without understanding why people enjoyed those games to begin with, leading to a game where the level design encourages you to go fast but you die in one hit or if you fall from a large enough height)
The third party characters that we've got have had some combination of a ton of history/influence (ex.
Third party characters have been a part of Smash for a decade and a half now, and I can't think of a single interview, comment, or hint that they considered including any sort of flavour of the month meme pick that people prop up ironically because of how terrible it is. I can't imagine that we're going to get diminishing returns to such levels that Bubsy seems likely, let alone reaching the point where the developers feel the need to jettison most/all third party characters because of it.
I apologize for the rant; I've just been dealing with this sort of "third parties need to be cut" or "we need to limit third party characters to cartoony platformer mascots" since the Smash 4 days at least, which got really frustrating as someone who liked playing as Snake in Brawl.
To be fair to FP2, it did do a lot of polishing representation for franchises that are already in. It's why FFVII is no longer associated with "lol2songs", it saved XC2 from potentially being screwed by a newer Xenoblade, and the ARMS teaser meant we had to consider characters that were already represented in some form.
Again I don't want cuts but its going to happen. A new idea should at least heal the wounds.Have and enjoy fun with the cut roster of 30-40 characters.
Agreed. This is the direction they should go with at this point that way there will be less complaints of cuts since it'd be a different step from Smash.
That would also be cool to see. Return to Form to Nintendo's roots. A fighting game where we celebrate Nintendo's history, a better time for speculation and actually supporting your favourite character without becoming a cesspit
Dude, do you anything of value to actually contribute to discussion instead of call anything you don't like a troll. Sounds like a form of projection to me.]
It happens when it's hard to tell whether or not you truly want the fanbase to shrink. Smash vs. Shonen Jump has the potential to...not do so, as you'll have to deal with fans of various anime/manga franchises when talking about your character now, not just fans of other video games.
Obviously I would prefer the Nintendo reboot but Smash x Shonen Jump would honestly amazing a both a Video game and Shonen Fan but yeah you're right. The extra fans would make Smash even more a ****show than it already. Ultimate but on 1000x steroids. A Living Nightmare.
Ironically I think it's preferring to keep things "pure" when it comes to PC game mods that makes me desire more first-party newcomers over third-party ones overall. What I mean by that is stuff like not replacing player models with stuff like Spongebob or Naruto, not replacing the fake cars in GTA with real ones, etc.
I mean, I also don't like mods like that.
Might not have been the best comparison, but I dislike the notion that the reason one might prefer first-parties overall is because they've played little to no games Nintendo didn't make. If someone didn't want Batman in Marvel vs. Capcom, that wouldn't mean they've never read any Batman comics, watched any Batman movies or TV series, etc.
I've stopped believing Smash was purely a Nintendo crossover once Snake entered the picture back in E3 of 2006. I can't imagine most, if any of the third parties that are involved with Smash currently and those who didn't get the shot this time around would pass up the opportunity to the next installment after the highest selling fighting game of all time.
Time to fulfil my dream of Super Smash Bros Versus Marvel and DC (and other comic book companies)
I think this view is a little colored by the recent developments of DLC. Base game could be entirely different and should be expected to have comparatively less focus on third parties.
I mean, I'm fine with third parties that played an explicitly major role in Nintendo's legacy/history. But I think the third party roster has gone way beyond that being any sort of qualifying condition; thus, things should be reined in significantly. It keeps everything fair and focused on the Nintendo characters who are the real stars of the show. Third parties at the end of the day are just guests at the table.
It would take a lot for backlash to cuts to have a noticeable effect on sales. Even the split with Melee was centered almost exclusively on the competitive scene. The general public would largely understand if a third party character is cut since there's so many possible and reasonable justifications for it, like licensing costs, negotiation issues with various companies, the desire to add new content instead, ... .
Again, I think this is colored by the recent developments in DLC. The rate of third party inclusions in DLC is probably unsustainable for a base game. And while some vets could come back as DLC, they're definitely not going to waste all their paid content bullets on recycled old stuff.
I mean, most of them are.
It's not any different than rooting for/against any other character for any other subjective or objective reasoning. Just because they've been in the game before doesn't change anything. Like, just because Sakurai or Nintendo determined at one point that a character is viable to roster over any number of alternatives doesn't mean everyone who didn't support that character should instantly change their mind about them, especially in the scenario of a new game where we could get more of said alternatives if they don't bring everyone back. A new game starts with the roster at zero; everyone ought to get a fair shot at consideration rather than being squeezed out due to decisions from like 10-20+ years ago that were made under special circumstances which may not be relevant anymore.
I think a lot of fans of the third-party focus on DLC like to forget that Banjo and Geno are third-party characters who...became big in the Smash community because of their own Nintendo focus. They just focus on how they're owned by Microsoft and Square-Enix, and not how Banjo/Geno fans wish that was never the case.
Eh, not really... Just think this idea is coming from the exact same place that the idea of a movie being a way to follow up a multi-player fighting game series would... and stuff like 3d smash... If you're proposing shonen jump characters in smash, then yeah, I guess Goku's a request enough, although not saying it's happening... Suggesting gimmicks like a movie etc is just what I don't get... If you said you don't view smash as just a cross over, then what do you play it for if you think stuff like movies are fine, even if they do also shrink the fanbase, regardless of however ridiculous that last part maybe... Most people I know who don't like people viewing smash as only a museum prefer to view what they add to the game specifically, but I don't think that's the case here... And this was never even proposed to a minor extent during smash 4, or even brawl where you'd expect people to think smash could have changed gameplay considering it was still way younger then in comparison to now... It's like proposing metroid be changed to a racing series or something lol, except way less sense since the gameplay of smash is literally referenced in the name... No matter what ultimate has done, another business as usual game would still be fine... Unless you want the fanbase to shrink... which I also question lol. Not much makes sense TBH so it's clear to see why it seems like trolling...
This argument's been around since Brawl, and it seems unnecessarily gate-keepy to me. How does anyone decide what makes it so a third party character plays an "explicitly major role in Nintendo's legacy/history"? And how do you get people to agree on defining something like that?
A very fair point, I suppose the plausibility of the idea depends entirely on how much returns for a base, trying to bring back every single cut character is unfeasible barring something insane like 5 DLC cycles or the majority of 3rd Parties being in base.
This got me curious, so I tallied what third parties have in terms of a relationship with Nintendo.
It is true that Nintendo would likely lose only a negligible amount of money, but given Nintendos complicated history with Melee, I don’t think they want to risk a similar situation. Ultimate has infamously great balance, and people are already experimenting with replacing the garbage online with a form of roleback, a resurgence of the competitive community if Smash 6 is lacks a lot of characters is certainly possible imo.
Honestly I really don't understand how someone can see the Smash fanbase in its current state as more open-minded in the first place. The fanbase may now occasionally talk about third-parties that are nowhere near Sonic or Pac-Man, but that's a HUGE emphasis on "occasionally" considering how much speculation devolved into "It's going to be Crash for sure this time!"
Um, what? Seriously, what would even be the point of this? You're suggesting that 3rd party playables should be cut, but they could still appear as Mii costumes or something? They'd still be licensing those characters, in that case. The 3rd party characters are almost unanimously seen as the ones most likely to be cut, even by those of us who want Everyone Is Here to return, but the entire reason as to why that's the case is because of all the supposed complications in licensing. But if they're licensed anyway, that removes the single biggest hurdle for them.
They don't magically gain the license to use them in every Smash game for the rest of time or an Ultimate port. Need I mention Nocturne HD requiring you to pay extra for Dante again? What about how GTA's mobile ports lost a good chunk of songs and the Definitive Edition never fixed that?
I'm pretty sure it's just some arbitrary Nintendo all-stars thing... As said, it's not realistic, but they definitely are more fixated on the phrase rather than knowing what it really entails...
I don't dislike the core gameplay. However, I do lament Ultimate's lack of variety, which seems especially glaring when you consider that every prior Smash (including Smash for WiiU and even the original N64 game) did a much better job of letting you play the game differently. Though, I've especially fell in love with platforming in Smash, as it seems like such a great fit for a series that began as a platforming-fighter hybrid in the first place, and it's extremely disheartening to see it increasingly de-emphasized post-Brawl.
That's because Tankman is making a bad faith argument.
I wasn't talking about long-term licensing. I was talking about the inane suggestion to cut 3rd party as playable characters but keeping them for Mii costumes or something else. In such a scenario, they'd still be licensing them.
