Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

On the topic of announcements and revitilized support, how are you all feeling about the chances of a WarioWare newcomer in the next game after we just had Move It revealed? We haven't had two WarioWare games in the same system ever since the 2000s, the franchise seems to be doing much better than it did in the 2010s.

Two Wario wares?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Two Mario newcomers in the next game is more likely than not. Every game except for Brawl has added two Mario fighters in the roster. I'm betting on Waluigi and Geno getting in together in the base game next time.

Give me Toad and Geno then please. Toad got a lot going for him I feel.

 

[Gengar84]

Give me Toad and Geno then please. Toad got a lot going for him I feel.

Yeah, I feel like Toad, Geno, and Waluigi are the most likely at this point. My dream pick is some kind of Goomba, whether it’s a basic Goomba, Goombella, or even Dr. Goomba Tower. I just love those little guys.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Ya'll mean Captain Toad surely?

 

[Wunderwaft]

Two Wario wares?

Get It Together released two years ago and now we have Move It releasing this year. The last time was Touched and DIY back in the DS.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I actually forgot Wario ware Get it together was a thing.

 

[Gengar84]

Ya'll mean Captain Toad surely?

I suspect that the character would have an outfit for normal Toad, Captain Toad, and potentially Toadette if they were to get in.

 

[RodNutTakin]

I think it would just be Toadette by herself so that Peach and Daisy don't need their Neutral Specials changed, she's been in a lot of Marios this console.
And lord knows they aren't going to use Toadsworth instead, his last appearance in a brand new game is going to be a decade old next month!

 

[Gengar84]

I think it would just be Toadette by herself so that Peach and Daisy don't need their Neutral Specials changed, she's been in a lot of Marios this console.
And lord knows they aren't going to use Toadsworth instead, his last appearance in a brand new game is going to be a decade old next month!

We do have Chrom as his own character while remaining in Robin’s Final Smash so there is precedent for that. While it might lower Toad’s priority compared to other strong options, I don’t think it disqualifies him.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

So like, I was never a huge Geno supporter to be honest.
I wanted him In, but like, he wasn’t one of my most wanted characters.
To me it seems like the most dedicated Geno supporters progressively got more and more desperate, by FP2 it was pretty clear he wasn’t happening in Ultimate.
But seeing the remake coming out, I think if a new Smash game was to come out in the near future, there is a lot going for him.
Like, Square and Nintendo were able to work out a remake, so Square might be willing to cooperate with adding him, especially now that he has some relevance.
Also the amount of popular fan pick characters who haven’t become playable is a lot less now, so Geno would be close to the top of the popularity list in terms of fan picks, seeing as that’s a big thing when picking characters.
And Sakurai was very enthusiastic about Geno, like he had the Mii Costume, Sakurai wanted him to be playable, even if Sakurai wouldn’t be involved as heavily or at all in a future game, the interest is there.
It would be nice to get Mallow too, like Geno and Mallow as a duo.

 

[RodNutTakin]

We do have Chrom as his own character while remaining in Robin’s Final Smash so there is precedent for that. While it might lower Toad’s priority compared to other strong options, I don’t think it disqualifies him.

I'd be inclined to agree if Toad wasn't given an even more active role in Peach's moveset last game, considering the neutral special is him actively defending the Princess now, alongside with being part of her new grab and throws. Feels like something they wouldn't do if there was serious consideration for him.
It's all going to depend on if he remains as active in Peach's moveset next time like he is in Ultimate.

 

[dream1ng]

At this point with Toad I feel the move is to just not expect Sakurai to find him fighter material. If he's changed his mind, cool, Toad certainly merits inclusion, but it just seems the wise thing is to not expect it. Especially with how much outcry there's been for Waluigi and Geno now at his likeliest.

Without the massive demand to prompt Sakurai to reconsider, it just seems like if he were going to happen, he would've happened by now.

Though if someone other than Sakurai chooses the roster, sure.

Maybe. There's an actual chance now for Geno yeah. But competition in the Mario newcomer department is high. Unless they just give Geno his own emblem and add him strictly as a SMRPG newcomer, which I could see happen too.

It may help somewhat that most Mario newcomers are likelier for base, while he is likelier for DLC, being a third-party. So it's unlikely they would be added in the same go

 

[Gengar84]

At this point with Toad I feel the move is to just not expect Sakurai to find him fighter material. If he's changed his mind, cool, Toad certainly merits inclusion, but it just seems the wise thing is to not expect it. Especially with how much outcry there's been for Waluigi and Geno now at his likeliest.

Without the massive demand to prompt Sakurai to reconsider, it just seems like if he were going to happen, he would've happened by now.

Though if someone other than Sakurai chooses the roster, sure.


It may help somewhat that most Mario newcomers are likelier for base, while he is likelier for DLC, being a third-party. So it's unlikely they would be added in the same go

That could be true but the same could be said about Ridley and his status as a boss or stage hazard before Ultimate.

 

[dream1ng]

That could be true but the same could be said about Ridley and his status as a boss or stage hazard before Ultimate.

If you ignore the part where I said without the massive demand to prompt Sakurai to reconsider, sure.

But Sakurai literally attributed Ridley's inclusion to the ballot.

 

[Gengar84]

If you ignore the part where I said without the massive demand to prompt Sakurai to reconsider, sure.

But Sakurai literally attributed Ridley's inclusion to the ballot.

How do we know that there isn’t already a ton of support for Toad? Smashboards is just a small part of the overall fanbase. I feel like the movie will only increase his support.

 

[dream1ng]

How do we know that there isn’t already a ton of support for Toad? Smashboards is just a small part of the overall fanbase. I feel like the movie will only increase his support.

Toad is a generally popular character, absolutely, but has been such for as long as Smash has existed. There's no evidence of him being especially demanded within the Smash fanbase specifically. Perhaps part of that is people seeing him be constantly passed over and seemingly not considered, and having that hurt their expectations, which in turn hurts demand.

Maybe the movie will change that. But until it does, it's only speculative that it will.

And Mario already has two very highly requested characters, so we'll see how things stack up down the line.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

How do we know that there isn’t already a ton of support for Toad? Smashboards is just a small part of the overall fanbase. I feel like the movie will only increase his support.

I agree the movie could definitely bring in more support for Toad.
There would probably have to be a pretty sizable push for Toad if he was to become playable though, if the situation from Melee to Ultimate with Toad wasn’t enough to add him, then it would take a lot.

 

[SPEN18]

IT'S JUST A REMAKE, GUYS

Realistically, I don't think the remake on its own is going to change the equation enough for Geno. Remakes typically don't get a dedicated newcomer to promote them. And the remake also doesn't put Geno ahead of other possible Mario reps; I still don't see why they'd go for Geno over also-popular and more generally recognizable characters like Toad, Waluigi, King Boo, or Pauline. And I'd think that keeping at least most of the Mario vets like Rosalina and Bowser Jr. would be a higher priority than Geno.

Look, it's not that the SMRPG remake isn't a big deal for his fans. Like, putting Smash completely aside, if you're just a fan of Geno the character in general then it's a huge win for you. But maybe let's pump the brakes a bit when thinking about Geno in Smash specifically. I know a lot of fans are just riding the high right now and that's natural, but big-picture-wise it's still an uphill battle for the character to make it as a Smash PC.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

IT'S JUST A REMAKE, GUYS

Realistically, I don't think the remake on its own is going to change the equation enough for Geno. Remakes typically don't get a dedicated newcomer to promote them. And the remake also doesn't put Geno ahead of other possible Mario reps; I still don't see why they'd go for Geno over also-popular and more generally recognizable characters like Toad, Waluigi, King Boo, or Pauline. And I'd think that keeping at least most of the Mario vets like Rosalina and Bowser Jr. would be a higher priority than Geno.

Look, it's not that the SMRPG remake isn't a big deal for his fans. Like, putting Smash completely aside, if you're just a fan of Geno the character in general then it's a huge win for you. But maybe let's pump the brakes a bit when thinking about Geno in Smash specifically. I know a lot of fans are just riding the high right now and that's natural, but big-picture-wise it's still an uphill battle for the character to make it as a Smash PC.

I mostly agree.

 

[IronWarrior94]

So, what characters are you hoping will be in the next Smash?

2 years late to this question lol, but I'm hoping Raven Beak has a shot. I know it's selfish to ask for another Metroid character after finally getting Ridley, but in my honest opinion RB is probably the most compatible Metroid character right now to be a playable rep in Smash. Going off his boss fight he has great moveset potential and is very relevant to the Metroid series story and its main character.

The downsides that could prevent RB from being playable are: He's a one note character, killed off in the game that introduces him, and the timing of Dread's release. Chances are a potential new Smash will come out around the time Prime 4 finally shows itself, and the big relevant character by that point will be Sylux.

All in all I firmly believe that Raven Beak is the best possible Metroid rep for Smash, but sadly he came too late for Smash Ultimate and too early for a Smash 6. I'm hoping that he'll be considered, but won't be surprised if we get Sylux instead or no Metroid rep after finally getting Ridley.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The Switch getting a lot of Gamecube remasters makes it even weirder that Wind waker HD hasnt been ported.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

So, what characters are you hoping will be in the next Smash?

Shadow or really any Sonic character would be nice.
Demifiend is my most wanted.

 

[dream1ng]

The Switch getting a lot of Gamecube remasters makes it even weirder that Wind waker HD hasnt been ported.

Or Twilight Princess HD. The claims that they have those two pretty much ready to go for when they need them wouldn't surprise me, but they've also been able to get a Zelda game out annually during the Switch's lifespan, so maybe they don't feel the need to drop them.

Well, other than last year, I think. Maybe they were letting TotK have the space, but seems like it could've fit then.

Maybe one or both will show up next year. The closer we get to the successor, the more Switch's lineup will just consist of re-releases.

2 years late to this question lol, but I'm hoping Raven Beak has a shot. I know it's selfish to ask for another Metroid character after finally getting Ridley, but in my honest opinion RB is probably the most compatible Metroid character right now to be a playable rep in Smash. Going off his boss fight he has great moveset potential and is very relevant to the Metroid series story and its main character.

The downsides that could prevent RB from being playable are: He's a one note character, killed off in the game that introduces him, and the timing of Dread's release. Chances are a potential new Smash will come out around the time Prime 4 finally shows itself, and the big relevant character by that point will be Sylux.

All in all I firmly believe that Raven Beak is the best possible Metroid rep for Smash, but sadly he came too late for Smash Ultimate and too early for a Smash 6. I'm hoping that he'll be considered, but won't be surprised if we get Sylux instead or no Metroid rep after finally getting Ridley.

What a time it will be, when Sylux finally gets the appearance his popularity has been predicated on for a decade, lol.

Though unless they redesign him, I'd rather have Raven Beak too. Maybe if nothing else, he can be a boss, now that Ridley is playable.

IT'S JUST A REMAKE, GUYS

Realistically, I don't think the remake on its own is going to change the equation enough for Geno. Remakes typically don't get a dedicated newcomer to promote them. And the remake also doesn't put Geno ahead of other possible Mario reps; I still don't see why they'd go for Geno over also-popular and more generally recognizable characters like Toad, Waluigi, King Boo, or Pauline. And I'd think that keeping at least most of the Mario vets like Rosalina and Bowser Jr. would be a higher priority than Geno.

Look, it's not that the SMRPG remake isn't a big deal for his fans. Like, putting Smash completely aside, if you're just a fan of Geno the character in general then it's a huge win for you. But maybe let's pump the brakes a bit when thinking about Geno in Smash specifically. I know a lot of fans are just riding the high right now and that's natural, but big-picture-wise it's still an uphill battle for the character to make it as a Smash PC.

I sort of agree. I agree remakes carry less sway on the roster than full titles. And I agree Geno isn't a lock or anything.

I know choices aren't quantified like this, but if original titles are 2 points, remakes may be 1 point. Or even half a point. But they're not zero. It's just, does the points Geno's popularity give him plus the point from the remake hit a sufficient threshold to get in? Remakes are not ideal for Smash purposes, but is his case cumulatively now good enough for inclusion?

That's more or less how I view it. Also, Geno wouldn't get in to promote this game, the Mario series doesn't really work like that. It's just that this game existing at all helps Geno's case.

Though I think you may also get extra points for reviving a popular dormant character, even if just by a remake. Though, granted, this seems to matter less for third-parties. I mean, if Golden Sun got that speculated remake, wouldn't you think that would help Isaac's chances? I would.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Kyosuke from Rival Schools could be cool, he could represent both Rival Schools and Capcom VS SNK.
He would fit well in Smash, maybe he could summon teammates sometimes or something.

 

[HyperSomari64]

View attachment 373782
Kyosuke from Rival Schools could be cool, he could represent both Rival Schools and Capcom VS SNK.
He would fit well in Smash, maybe he could summon teammates sometimes or something.

Remember that CvS also has SNK characters.
It would be weird that he represents both Capcom and SNK.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Remember that CvS also has SNK characters.
It would be weird that he represents both Capcom and SNK.

Yeah
I mean he wouldn’t just be there for CVS
And he could have SNK teammate summons

 

[HyperSomari64]

And he could have SNK teammate summons

Imagine if Ryu had an attack where he calls Spider-Man or Ken the Eagle to help him.
It would be cool, bit it would be out of character.

 

[dream1ng]

Remember that CvS also has SNK characters.
It would be weird that he represents both Capcom and SNK.

Well... being in a crossover doesn't make you represent the other side of the crossover.

That's a bit like saying Ryu represents Marvel, SNK, Nintendo, Tatsunoko, Sega, Namco, and probably like twelve other things.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Imagine if Ryu had an attack where he calls Spider-Man or Ken the Eagle to help him.
It would be cool, bit it would be out of character.

I mean, those aren’t video game characters.
plus Strert Fighter isn’t a team based game, but Rival Schools is, so it’s a bit more in character.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Well... being in a crossover doesn't make you represent the other side of the crossover.

That's a bit like saying Ryu represents Marvel, SNK, Nintendo, Tatsunoko, Sega, Namco, and probably like twelve other things.

Ryu represents the USA government because Barack Obama was in a Street Fighter game with Cyborg 009

I mean, those aren’t video game characters.
plus Strert Fighter isn’t a team based game, but Rival Schools is, so it’s a bit more in character.

I was talking about the Versus series.
Keep the summoning attacks for the Rival Schools characters. I can't imagine him summoning Hibiki from The Last Blade or any other SNK character on the CvS2 roster as at least an Easter Egg, it will be strange.
(dang it, double post)

 

[Perkilator]

Loosely quoting from another thread; I made another fantasy roster using characters who were confirmed to be considered/cut for their respective games (as many as I see feasible, anyway), along with hints of self-indulgence. Italics bold denotes unlockable characters.

Spoiler: 64

Mario​	Donkey Kong​	Link​	Samus​
Yoshi​	Kirby​	Fox​	Pikachu​
Luigi​	Ness​	Captain Falcon​	Jigglypuff​
Bowser​	King Dedede​	Marth​	Mewtwo​

Rivalries

1. Mario vs. Luigi
2. Donkey Kong vs. Bowser
3. Link vs. Marth
4. Samus vs. Mewtwo
5. Yoshi vs. King Dedede
6. Kirby vs. Ness
7. Fox vs. Captain Falcon
8. Pikachu vs. Jigglypuff

Spoiler: Melee

Luigi​	Mario​	Bowser​	Peach​	Wario​	Yoshi​	Donkey Kong​	Diddy Kong​	Captain Falcon​
Falco​	Fox​	Ness​	Ice Climbers​	Kirby​	Samus​	Zelda / Sheik​	Link​	Ganondorf​
Mewtwo​	Jigglypuff​	Pikachu​	Scizor​	King Dedede​	Mr. Game & Watch​	Ayumi Tachibana​	Marth​	Roy​

Spoiler: Brawl

Mario​	Donkey Kong​	Link​	Samus​	Kirby​	Fox​	Pikachu​	Marth​	Mr. Game & Watch​
Luigi​	Diddy Kong​	Zelda / Sheik​	Pit​	King Dedede​	Falco​	Pokémon Trainer​	Ike​	DeMille​
Bowser​	Yoshi​	Ganondorf​	Ice Climbers​	Meta Knight​	Wolf​	Lucario​	Ness​	Snake​
Peach​	Wario​	Tetra​	R.O.B.​	Olimar​	Captain Falcon​	Jigglypuff​	Lucas​	Sonic​

Spoiler: for 3DS / Wii U

3DS version​

Mario​	Luigi​	Bowser​	Peach​	Rosalina & Luma​	Bowser Jr.​	Donkey Kong​	Diddy Kong​
Link​	Zelda​	Sheik​	Ganondorf​	Samus​	Zero Suit Samus​	Yoshi​	Kirby​
King Dedede​	Meta Knight​	Fox​	Falco​	Pikachu​	Mewtwo​	Jigglypuff​	Scizor​
Lucario​	Greninja​	Ness​	Captain Falcon​	Marth​	Ike​	Robin​	Wario​
Mr. Game & Watch​	Pit​	Palutena​	DeMIlle​	Villager​	Little Mac​	Duck Hunt​	Takamaru​
​	Lucina​	Dark Pit​	Sonic​	Mega Man​	PAC-MAN​	Mii Fighters​	​

Wii U version​

Mario​	Luigi​	Bowser​	Peach​	Rosalina & Luma​	Bowser Jr.​	Donkey Kong​	Diddy Kong​
Link​	Zelda​	Sheik​	Ganondorf​	Tetra​	Samus​	Zero Suit Samus​	Yoshi​
Kirby​	King Dedede​	Meta Knight​	Fox​	Falco​	Pikachu​	Mewtwo​	Jigglypuff​
Scizor​	Lucario​	Greninja​	Ness​	Captain Falcon​	Marth​	Ike​	Ice Climbers​
Wario​	Pit​	Palutena​	Olimar / Alph​	Villager​	Wii Fit Trainer​	Little Mac​	Shulk​
​	Takamaru​	Lucina​	Sonic​	Mega Man​	PAC-MAN​	Mii Fighters​	​

Free updates​

Tetra (3DS)​	Popo / Nana (3DS)​	Oimar / Alph (3DS)​	Wii Fit Trainer (3DS)​	Shulk (3DS)​
Mr. Game & Watch (Wii U)​	DeMille (Wii U)​	Dark Pit (Wii U)​	Robin (Wii U)​	Duck Hunt (Wii U)​

DLC​

Rayman​	Ryu​	Lucas​
Cloud​	Roy​	Azura​
​	Bayonetta​	​

Spoiler: Smash Ultimate

Base game​

64	Melee	Bwl	for 3DS / Wii U	Newcomers	Echo Fighters
1. Mario 2. Donkey Kong 3. Link 4. Samus 5. Yoshi 6. Kirby 7. Fox 8. Pikachu 9. Luigi 10. Ness 11. Captain Falcon 12. Jigglypuff 13. Bowser 14. King Dedede 15. Marth 16. Mewtwo	17. Peach 18. Sheik 19. Zelda 20. Scizor 21. Ice Climbers 22. Wario 23. Diddy Kong 24. Ayumi 25. Ganondorf 26. Falco 27. Roy 28. Mr. Game & Watch	29. Meta Knight 30. Pit 31. Zero Suit Samus 32. Snake 33. Ike 34-36. Pokémon Trainer Totodile Grovyle Charizard 37. Lucas 38. Sonic 39. Olimar 40. Lucario 41. DeMille 42. R.O.B. 43. Tetra 44. Wolf	45. Villager 46. Mega Man 47. Wii Fit Trainer 48. Rosalina & Luma 49. Little Mac 50. Greninja 51-53. Mii Fighters Brawler Swordfighter Gunner 54. Palutena 55. PAC-MAN 56. Robin 57. Shulk 58. Bowser Jr. 59. Takamaru 60. Duck Hunt 61. Rayman 62. Ryu 63. Cloud 64. Azura 65. Bayonetta	66. Inkling 67. Simon / Trevor 68. Alucard 69. Ridley 70. King K. Rool 71-72. Pyra / Mythra 73. Bandana Waddle Dee 74. Incineroar 75. Waluigi	(4ε.) Dark Samus (11ε.) Black Shadow (13ε.) Dry Bowser (15ε.) Lucina (17ε.) Daisy (23ε.) Dixie Kong (27ε.) Chrom (30ε.) Dark Pit (38ε.) Shadow (39ε.) Alph (49ε.) Glass Joe (56ε.) Celica (62ε.) Ken

DLC​

FIghters Pass Vol. 1	Fighters Pass Vol. 2
76. Joker​ 77. Slime​ 78. Crash Bandicoot​ 79. Estelle Bright​ 80. Terry Bogard​ 81. Banjo & Kazooie​	82. Min Min​ 83. Steve​ 84. Sephiroth​ 85. Kazuya​ 86. Dr. Eggman​ 87. Sora​

 

[Ivander]

Man....it's honestly crazy that people are actively betting on Geno for next game now. Look how much one announcement can change things.

I mean, the fans still need to support him with getting the remake bought for one thing, just like Advance Wars and it's fans. But with the next system possibly being shown next year and assuming the next Smash Bros. comes to the next system within 2 years(taking Sakurai's "too soon"/"too late" statements into account), Geno's chances look quite likely.

 

[dream1ng]

Ryu represents the USA government because Barack Obama was in a Street Fighter game with Cyborg 009

Well where else would Obama have learned the YesWeCan if not the guy who does the SureYouCan

 

[RileyXY1]

Smash tends to not promote remakes as much compared to new games. If they had announced a sequel to SMRPG instead of a remake it would be a whole different story entirely.

 

[CureParfait]

Smash tends to not promote remakes as much compared to new games. If they had announced a sequel to SMRPG instead of a remake it would be a whole different story entirely.

Due to that despite the announcement I am not sure if Geno's chances rose much yet.

 

[RileyXY1]

Due to that despite the announcement I am not sure if Geno's chances rose much yet.

This can be seen by Ultimate adding an Alolan Pokémon over a Kanto Pokémon despite the Kanto-based Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee being the hot new games at the time of Ultimate's release. It's clear that Smash has not tended to promote remakes that well.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

It wouldn’t be about promotion, like by the time a new Smash is out it’s not gonna be new.
But Geno would be more relevant.
I wouldn’t bet on him, but his chances are looking a little better.

 

[dream1ng]

I think there's a distinction here that Geno wouldn't be promoting the SMRPG remake. He wouldn't get chosen because they want to give the game a character, he wouldn't get in with the express purpose of driving sales back to that game. That's not how the Mario series works.

It's that this game existing helps Geno's chances, because before, he was a one-off (basically) in a game from five gens ago. Now, he's an active character, and, ironically, the number of releases he's had (minus M&L and Smash) has doubled.

It's more the removal of impediments this game facilitates. It removes his appearances numbering at one (though it is the same game, and that's not ideal). It removes the fact that he's not just not current, but that he's not shown up since the mid-90s.

He still has negatives, and yes, original titles are better for Smash than remakes, but this game's biggest asset is that now he has fewer.

I think it's a similar deal with Isaac. If Golden Sun got a remake, Isaac wouldn't get in to promote that remake. Remakes aren't generally promoted. He would get in because one of the biggest things hurting his case was his lack of recency, which would then no longer be holding him back.

 

[RileyXY1]

And Super Mario itself also has a stacked lineup of potential newcomers. Geno has a lot of competition to deal with.

 

[dream1ng]

And Super Mario itself also has a stacked lineup of potential newcomers. Geno has a lot of competition to deal with.

That's true, but that's also one of the most likely series to get more than one character.

It's also the only first-party series where a non-promo character (or non-vet, if there are cuts) seems likelier for DLC than base, and not having to compete with the other potential Mario newcomers in the same round of inclusions may be beneficial.