Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[StrangeKitten]

I feel like Wario's vacation/tourist-looking outfit from the new WarioWare isn't getting talked about enough. I absolutely love it!

 

[Oracle Link]

I feel like Wario's vacation/tourist-looking outfit from the new WarioWare isn't getting talked about enough. I absolutely love it!

Wario did have a lot of other looks that werent in smash so iw ouldnt exoect this new outfit!

 

[StrangeKitten]

Wario did have a lot of other looks that werent in smash so iw ouldnt exoect this new outfit!

Never said I was expecting it for Smash. And I'm not. I just love it in general.

 

[Stratos]

If in the next Super Smash Bros. they bring Paper Mario as a newcomer, then along with Mario and Dr. Mario there will be a third Mario as well known.

 

[CannonStreak]

If in the next Super Smash Bros. they bring Paper Mario as a newcomer, then along with Mario and Dr. Mario there will be a third Mario as well known.

Not saying all three Links will return next game, but if what you said happens, Mario will match the three Links we have in the Smash Bros. series in terms of number.

 

[Stratos]

The only appearance Waluigi made in a Wario game was in WarioWare Gold, I wish they had put him in the next Wario games and also I've only seen Waluigi as a stuffed baby, I hope they decide to have him appear as a baby alongside baby Wario, be played in future Wario games, and most importantly star in his own series.

 

[StrangeKitten]

If in the next Super Smash Bros. they bring Paper Mario as a newcomer, then along with Mario and Dr. Mario there will be a third Mario as well known.

I'd be all for it! Unlike Doc, who isn't different enough to warrant a slot imo, Paper Mario just has so, so much source material to pull from! I'd like to see his hammer used for most of his normals, and then there are a ton of options for specials.

The only appearance Waluigi made in a Wario game was in WarioWare Gold, I wish they had put him in the next Wario games and also I've only seen Waluigi as a stuffed baby, I hope they decide to have him appear as a baby alongside baby Wario, be played in future Wario games, and most importantly star in his own series.

A Waluigi game sounds like it would be very bizarre and trippy. I need it now!

 

[DarthEnderX]

I feel like most people here are underselling Piranha Plant greatly.

We aren't.

He's high on the list because he was free. Period. Without that, he'd been down in the Byleth range.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm still surprised there are those who don't buy the whole pass.

 

[Lionfranky]

Thank you so much for saying this! Completely agree.

I am absolutely over the moon! SMRPG remake! Yessss!! It feels like, just maybe, us Geno fans did make an impact and were heard. I could also see S-E having prioritized Cloud, Sephiroth, and Hero for Smash, which makes sense. Hopefully Geno will be playable for the next game.

Also, I don't see why Doomguy and Master Chief can't both get into the next Smash. Yes, they're both green space marines... so what? 2 characters with that similarity, with plenty that can be done to differentiate them, out of what will likely be 20ish newcomers is hardly too many. We've infamously gotten many anime swordfighters as newcomers. An FGC character has been in all of the past roster addition cycles (Ryu as DLC for 4, Ken as base for Ultimate, then Terry and Kazuya for their respective Fighter's Passes) and they're all up-close style fighters with command inputs. If the developers aren't considering things like this redundant (and they shouldn't, because these characters all have plenty to differentiate them), then I don't see why they'd view Doomguy and Chief as redundant either. Doom and Halo are both among the most influential games of all time and easily deserve spots in Smash.

Let's pray there won't be civil war between the two fanbases like Banjo and Steve... Hopefully, speculation circle has matured enough.

 

[fogbadge]

Hopefully, speculation circle has matured enough.

doubt it

 

[Gengar84]

Let's pray there won't be civil war between the two fanbases like Banjo and Steve... Hopefully, speculation circle has matured enough.

You don’t have to worry about me. I think either character would be cool but I’ll be pulling for the Battletoads and Fulgore (and potentially Illidan and Kerrigan if the Activision/Blizzard deal goes through) as far as Microsoft is concerned. If we get Chief or DoomSlayer instead, that’s cool too since I think they’d both be interesting characters to play as in Smash.

 

[Zerp]

Hopefully, speculation circle has matured enough.

I'd like that too although it's like the most unlikely thing to occur. Like, think of your most unrealistic character you want. That character getting in the game is probably more likely than speculation not getting super tribalistic lol. It's really just gotten more extreme every cycle, I remember Smash 4's DLC being more extreme than the base game, and then Ultimate's base game being more extreme than that. Then of course Fighters Pass 1 was even crazier, and Fighters Pass 2 somehow got even more fighting going. It seems less extreme and less likely now only because there isn't a ton of attention on Smash at the moment. As soon as a new Smash game gets announced I expect places like Twitter/Facebook/Reddit/Gamefaqs to just explode into their usual conflicts. Would be shocked if it doesn't get worse than Ultimate's final DLC days very quickly.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t understand why anyone gets so upset to the point that fights break out just because people have different opinions and preferences for characters they want or feel we are likely to see. As much as I love Smash, we have to remember that it’s still just a game at the end of the day. I try to view things through other’s perspectives. Even if we get characters I personally don’t like or care about, I can still be happy for the people that too. Maybe I’m just an outlier because I realize that a lot of my favorite characters are very unlikely. I never get my hopes up too high so it’s a nice surprise if I happen to get one of my favorite characters like Sephiroth or my ballot pick of K. Rool.

 

[dream1ng]

Speculators: they'll avoid Doom Slayer because of demonic imagery
Sakurai: so I chose Kazuya because he turns into a devil



Lol, but fr, considering it's not 1997, raising the demonic imagery of Doom as something that would genuinely prompt a meaningful amount of pushback sounds like looking for reasons against the character rather than asking how likely they actually are.

Also, the character himself is, appearance-wise, just a hulking armored space marine. Just don't choose one of the areas lined with pentagrams for the stage and you'll sidestep most of it.

Even when Pokemon was genuinely receiving criticism of satanism in the late 90s, all Nintendo did was go "lol whatever" and carry on.

Speaking of DK, with the Switch being alive and well I feel a new game for this series is saved for a little later. Might be a whole Direct based on it even, with announcement of a game, Diddy, Funky and Dixie as Mario Kart 8 racers and a DK themed track, and announcement of a DK Movie even. Seems like good marketing to do this all at once.

Personally I suspect 2024 brings with it the next system, so, while the Switch is alive and well, I don't think there's too much left for it, when all is said and done. Probably just games to ride out next year, and then something here and there afterwards.

I don't think we're set for too many big, original, mainline titles left.

DK may still touch down for the Switch... but considering how future-oriented Nintendo's plans are for the IP... it also may not show up til the next thing, so the game doesn't, y'know, almost immediately get jettisoned on non-current hardware.

Haven't seen it mentionned, but I got a feeling that the soundtrack that came with Sans and Cuphead helped them alot sales wise.

Not to say it's the only reason they got popular. Nah, it probably was a small-to-medium boost to their sales, but its still noteworthy imo.

Obviously part of why they sold so well is because they're popular characters, but they were also offering more than the typical costume with the song, creating another reason to be bought, were given skins that actually made them look like the character, while being like one seventh of the price of a fighter.

So, yeah, even with the lists being based on recent purchases, of course they'd be the top two costumes overall.

I somewhat suspected this possibility.

It seemed quite strange to me that there appeared no presence of a shrinking fanbase over time

i can't see SE being willing to sell

I could, they really can't use any of that stuff without Nintendo anyway. And Square does sell stuff, they cut and run on their whole western side.

I just don't see Nintendo caring enough to buy. Tbh, the most valuable part of that property they already own.

I feel like Wario's vacation/tourist-looking outfit from the new WarioWare isn't getting talked about enough. I absolutely love it!

If only they started adding skins for other characters as DLC. I would spend... a bad amount of money on them.

If in the next Super Smash Bros. they bring Paper Mario as a newcomer, then along with Mario and Dr. Mario there will be a third Mario as well known.

I like Paper Mario well enough, but with Waluigi being so demanded, and now Geno having a better case, to add a third Mario... I'd be a little disappointed

At least he'd be unique, unlike the three Links.

Though if there are cuts, Dr. Mario is entirely plausible to go

The only appearance Waluigi made in a Wario game was in WarioWare Gold, I wish they had put him in the next Wario games and also I've only seen Waluigi as a stuffed baby, I hope they decide to have him appear as a baby alongside baby Wario, be played in future Wario games, and most importantly star in his own series.

Waluigi was in WarioWare Gold?

We aren't.

He's high on the list because he was free. Period. Without that, he'd been down in the Byleth range.

The list isn't all-time. It's impacted by recency. He's probably that high up because he needed to be bought individually.

Hopefully, speculation circle has matured enough.

I admire your optimism

If anything, to me they seemed seemed worse for Ultimate than 4.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The list isn't all-time.

Except it probably is. You're basing that on what you THINK TotK's sales should be compared BotW's. But you don't actually know.

 

[Wunderwaft]

The only appearance Waluigi made in a Wario game was in WarioWare Gold, I wish they had put him in the next Wario games and also I've only seen Waluigi as a stuffed baby, I hope they decide to have him appear as a baby alongside baby Wario, be played in future Wario games, and most importantly star in his own series.

Waluigi hasn't appeared in WarioWare Gold or any of the Wario games at all. A shame really since I can imagine him having a great chemistry with the Ware cast.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Until we know just how these eShop lists are created, I don't think it's fair to use them as a point.

Except it probably is. You're basing that on what you THINK TotK's sales should be compared BotW's. But you don't actually know.

I mean, TotK having less sold than BotW is common sense. But we can do another example if you wish.

I don't think the Mario Kart 8 DLC sold more than the base game.

 

[Stratos]

Waluigi was in WarioWare Gold?

In fact he only appeared in WarioWare Gold if his Amiibo was attached.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Waluigi hasn't appeared in WarioWare Gold or any of the Wario games at all. A shame really since I can imagine him having a great chemistry with the Ware cast.

Honestly, the fact we got Daisy playable in a mainline Mario game before Waluigi has even APPEARED in one further solidifies my belief that Nintendo just doesn't like him...

 

[dream1ng]

I'd like that too although it's like the most unlikely thing to occur. Like, think of your most unrealistic character you want. That character getting in the game is probably more likely than speculation not getting super tribalistic lol. It's really just gotten more extreme every cycle, I remember Smash 4's DLC being more extreme than the base game, and then Ultimate's base game being more extreme than that. Then of course Fighters Pass 1 was even crazier, and Fighters Pass 2 somehow got even more fighting going. It seems less extreme and less likely now only because there isn't a ton of attention on Smash at the moment. As soon as a new Smash game gets announced I expect places like Twitter/Facebook/Reddit/Gamefaqs to just explode into their usual conflicts. Would be shocked if it doesn't get worse than Ultimate's final DLC days very quickly.

It probably gets exacerbated in each subsequent phase because with each character added, there's less and less hope remaining. At the beginning they can add pretty much whoever, and people will find it easier to roll with (unless it somehow directly hurts the character they want).

Like, for 4, I think they were very smart showing WFT right at the beginning. Had they shown her at the end, I think she'd be right there with Dark Pit getting all the ****. But there was time and space that people still had hope for their characters, and they got over her by the time of the next reveal.

Ultimate, miraculously, managed to add one of maybe three characters that wouldn't have started a small riot being the last fighter. Sora, Chief, and possibly Crash. Anyone else and it would've been ugly. God, imagine if it were a Pokemon.

But yeah, Ultimate overall seemed worse than 4 for craziness and hostility. The leaker worship was out of hand, at one point we were talking more about them than the game. And the theorizing became untethered. There's always been crackpot theories out there (the clouds in Brawl being a funny example) but, like, Ultimate had several theories predicated on the color of the background of the character on the site. Smash 4 also had the character colors on the site... I don't remember a single theory based on it.

I actually think receiving a decent amount of cuts would actually be good for the fanbase. In the long run. Not in terms of losing characters, that would suck, but just in terms of resetting expectations a bit, people being a bit more grateful for what they receive, and curbing the swelling entitlement somewhat.

I don’t understand why anyone gets so upset to the point that fights break out just because people have different opinions and preferences for characters they want or feel we are likely to see. As much as I love Smash, we have to remember that it’s still just a game at the end of the day. I try to view things through other’s perspectives. Even if we get characters I personally don’t like or care about, I can still be happy for the people that too. Maybe I’m just an outlier because I realize that a lot of my favorite characters are very unlikely. I never get my hopes up too high so it’s a nice surprise if I happen to get one of my favorite characters like Sephiroth or my ballot pick of K. Rool.

Agreed. I think people come about it all wrong, and expect their character will be in until they are proven not to be, which causes dissonance, which causes backlash. People need to reverse those expectations. Imagine they probably won't make it (because most don't), but hope they do, keep pushing, and if it happens you'll be delighted. If not, well no harm no foul. Right now it's backwards, and that creates undue entitlement.

I mean, unless you're pulling for a character that had the inevitability of Inkling in Ultimate. But those characters are very uncommon.

I also am 100% with you on them just being characters in a game. Tribalism is unseemly. Perspective is key. Disappointment is fine, healthy even (especially right upon deconfirmation), but actual anger, actual big negative feelings... maybe you need to take a step back.

 

[fogbadge]

I could, they really can't use any of that stuff without Nintendo anyway. And Square does sell stuff, they cut and run on their whole western side.

I just don't see Nintendo caring enough to buy. Tbh, the most valuable part of that property they already own.

well i was thinking that maybe SE think they can get more money out of it long term if they don't sell

i don't think nintendo would want to but either

 

[Stratos]

Honestly, the fact we got Daisy playable in a mainline Mario game before Waluigi has even APPEARED in one further solidifies my belief that Nintendo just doesn't like him...

Now that you mentioned Daisy and I wrote a while ago that Waluigi should get his own series and based on what I remembered from Super Princess Peach I was wondering how would a game starring Daisy, I mean what would be the plot there.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't think the Mario Kart 8 DLC sold more than the base game.

Except that it very easily could have. Because remember, these are DIGITAL sales.

What percentage of MK8D sales were physical copies that wouldn't be counted by this list. Meanwhile 100% of the Booster Pass's sales are digital.

Zelda is the same. Has BotW sold less copies? Or did it just sell way more physical copies.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Honestly, the fact we got Daisy playable in a mainline Mario game before Waluigi has even APPEARED in one further solidifies my belief that Nintendo just doesn't like him...

I wouldn't say they don't like him
Waluigi still appears in the spin-offs and hasn't missed an entry ever since MK7. Besides, I don't see Waluigi getting in a mainline game without Wario tagging along, and the last time Wario appeared in one was Super Mario 64 DS which was decades ago. I'm more so baffled that Waluigi isn't allowed to appear in any of Wario's games, though I imagine this restriction could lessen in the future after Miyamoto had an epiphany when Illumination kept asking him to allow them to put the Kongs in the Mario movie.

Mr. Miyamoto, Super Mario Bros. expands the story and characters beyond the games. Is there anything about this film that surprised you?

Shigeru Miyamoto: One example is bringing the world of Donkey Kong into the Mushroom Kingdom. In this past, there was the the Mario group, and then Donkey Kong was a separate thing in my mind. But looking back, there are games like Mario Party where they appear together — to the point where I was thinking, "Why am I separating them?" And when the idea of bringing them together came up, we just thought it was a great idea.

After this interview I'm fairly optimistic that Waluigi could have an appearance outside of the spin-offs in a future game, the Mario mandate as we know it probably won't be as draconian as before.

 

[Gengar84]

I think there’s only really been one time where I overhyped myself with unrealistic expectations and that was right before Byleth’s reveal. Sakurai posted a picture with what looked to me like a hand gesture for the number three. I started thinking of popular video game trios and my mind kept going to the Battletoads. When it turned out to be Byleth, I just laughed rather than get angry. I felt a bit foolish for jumping to the wrong conclusions but I was more amused to see what everyone’s reactions would be. I got a bit deflated afterwards when I didn’t care much for Min Min or Steve but I never really complained much about it since I realized that a lot of other people were happy with these characters. I actually held off on buying the second pass until Sephiroth’s reveal and then bought the whole pass.

 

[dream1ng]

Except it probably is. You're basing that on what you THINK TotK's sales should be compared BotW's. But you don't actually know.

At least I'm basing mine on some numbers, even if it's not just the digital ones. What are you basing it on? The list of Smash characters?

If you're simply basing it the term 'best sellers', that doesn't specify all-time or under a specific timeframe.

I'm basing it not just on TotK over BotW. I'm basing it on Pikmin 1+2 being over Pikmin 3 in under twelve hours. I'm basing it on both SKUs of XC3 and XC:DE being above XC2. I'm basing it on a game we know didn't sell that great (Sparks of Hope) and it's deluxe edition both separately being above the first title, which was a noted success, and have five more years on the market.

I'm basing it on the fact that FIFA 23's DLC is higher than FIFA 22's DLC is higher than 21 is higher than 20 (for the most part).

Like, the Gen 4 remakes are above Sword and Shield.

Yeah, it's not empirically conclusive. But these examples are extremely illogical if it were all time.

But... what is your evidence? Piranha Plant? PP is likely so high because other characters get subsumed by Pass purchases, but PP needs to be bought individually.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Except that it very easily could have. Because remember, these are DIGITAL sales.

What percentage of MK8D sales were physical copies that wouldn't be counted by this list. Meanwhile 100% of the Booster Pass's sales are digital.

Zelda is the same. Has BotW sold less copies? Or did it just sell way more physical copies.

That... Is a fair point. I did not consider that.

Regardless, we still need to determine whether or not this is based on all time sales or not.

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah, game versus DLC isn't a comparison that works.

But game vs. game is, all else being equal. And yeah, we don't get a breakdown of digital sales, but just because we lack that info doesn't make some situations extremely dubious were it not timeframe based.

Like, yeah, we don't know how many copies of the two M+R games were digital vs. physical. Maybe the ratio of digital to physical is higher for the second. But when you consider the numbers for the games - the second presumably being under or around 1 mil since its numbers weren't shared, the latter at over 10 million players (not necessarily sales, since there were times you could get it for free (temporarily) with NSO - which would still count towards its 'best seller' numbers since free downloads are counted - and would only increase its digital "sales"), and you're saying there were more digital sales of the former, the new unsuccessful game than of the latter... a highly successful launch-window game with an install base that's possibly up to ten times greater.

It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Stratos]

I like the idea of them making the Nintendo Cinematic Universe as much as anything, but I thought of Olimar from the Pikmin series, partly and some others are actually shorter than humans but in the Super Smash Bros. series they make them human-sized, the Olimar and in general the other protagonists in the Pikmin series are smaller than the diameter of a Gamecube disk and I saw and read this in the Pikmin 1 instruction booklet back then. What I want to say without wanting to get anyone's hopes up is that if a Nintendo Cinematic Universe is made let alone a Super Smash Bros Cinematic Universe, will all these videogame characters somehow become human sized?

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think there’s only really been one time where I overhyped myself with unrealistic expectations and that was right before Byleth’s reveal. Sakurai posted a picture with what looked to me like a hand gesture for the number three. I started thinking of popular video game trios and my mind kept going to the Battletoads. When it turned out to be Byleth, I just laughed rather than get angry. I felt a bit foolish for jumping to the wrong conclusions but I was more amused to see what everyone’s reactions would be. I got a bit deflated afterwards when I didn’t care much for Min Min or Steve but I never really complained much about it since I realized that a lot of other people were happy with these characters. I actually held off on buying the second pass until Sephiroth’s reveal and then bought the whole pass.

I remember a lot of people were trying to make out what Sakurai's number three sign was meaning. Some people thought it was a hint to Crash because of the Trilogy on the Switch, other people though it was a hint to Sora because of Kingdom Hearts 3 (little did THEY know...), and there's probably others. So you weren't the only one. I didn't try to figure it out. I just wanted to know who it was and get it over with. lol

Even I never really got angry at any of the reveals for Ultimate. I had gotten Simon and he was originally going to be my very last MW for this series, so why would I be mad at other characters getting in? At that point, I had every character I wanted. Even though that would eventually change but still, that just shows how silly that would have been if I had all the characters I wanted and still be angry at the roster.

 

[Gengar84]

I remember a lot of people were trying to make out what Sakurai's number three sign was meaning. Some people thought it was a hint to Crash because of the Trilogy on the Switch, other people though it was a hint to Sora because of Kingdom Hearts 3 (little did THEY know...), and there's probably others. So you weren't the only one. I didn't try to figure it out. I just wanted to know who it was and get it over with. lol

Even I never really got angry at any of the reveals for Ultimate. I had gotten Simon and he was originally going to be my very last MW for this series, so why would I be mad at other characters getting in? At that point, I had every character I wanted. Even though that would eventually change but still, that just shows how silly that would have been if I had all the characters I wanted and still be angry at the roster.

Yeah, and you never know when a character you never cared much about previously turns out to be really fun to play. I didn’t really have any strong feelings one way or the other about Terry when he was revealed but I really love playing as him in Smash. The same goes for Kazuya. That’s all the more reason I try to be open minded about characters and not rush to judgement until I’ve played them for a bit.

 

[dream1ng]

well i was thinking that maybe SE think they can get more money out of it long term if they don't sell

I see where you're coming from, but this seems unlikely to me. Because it's predicated on Square thinking Nintendo has a desire to use these characters, and they'll benefit from licensing fees.

But Nintendo's desire to use these characters has been quite minimal. Until this remake, it's basically just been Sakurai, and that was basically just to mollify the fanbase. I also imagine the money they got from the license was pretty insignificant in the face of the FF, DQ, and KH content (if they were included in the profits of the latter). Geno was in that one M&L game, but that was before many people really cared about him. He didn't return in the remake, presumably for budgetary reasons.

I mean, they didn't even show up in the Mario games made by Square. Even in the ones that had guest SE characters.

I could see them not wanting to relinquish their rights to the game itself. But it's sort of the same thing. Nintendo has more interest in the game as a whole than the original characters, but they're also not above going "**** it" to games that are legally complicated. Look at DK64, it's only re-released once.

 

[Stratos]

With the Super Mario RPG remake, I know that might not be the case, but I see this as a sign that Geno will be coming as a newcomer in a future Super Smash Bros. game.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Now that you mentioned Daisy and I wrote a while ago that Waluigi should get his own series and based on what I remembered from Super Princess Peach I was wondering how would a game starring Daisy, I mean what would be the plot there.

A return to Sarasaland, which she is the princess of. It has a completely different vibe and enemies and everything than the Mushroom Kingdom, and has never gotten console-quality love. You could probably incorporate sports somehow, maybe through some levels or minigames, since Daisy is sporty. Wario could work as the big villain. Or even better, bring back Tatanga and the end levels could be in space. As for further story details, it doesn't matter too much. Just give Daisy an excuse to go adventure. Wario or Tatanga steal the MacGuffin and Daisy needs to get it back.

I don’t understand why anyone gets so upset to the point that fights break out just because people have different opinions and preferences for characters they want or feel we are likely to see. As much as I love Smash, we have to remember that it’s still just a game at the end of the day. I try to view things through other’s perspectives. Even if we get characters I personally don’t like or care about, I can still be happy for the people that too. Maybe I’m just an outlier because I realize that a lot of my favorite characters are very unlikely. I never get my hopes up too high so it’s a nice surprise if I happen to get one of my favorite characters like Sephiroth or my ballot pick of K. Rool.

Same here! I'm aware a lot of my most wanteds are pie-in-the-sky and very unlikely to happen. Will I be bummed if they don't happen? Yeah probably a little, for around a day or so. Taking that out on anyone by fighting with them just seems like an illogically extreme thing to do. It's a character in a game. I don't think the stakes are particularly high enough here to warrant such a thing. Which makes it all the more baffling to me that people use slurs and death threats towards people with similar taste as myself just because we want to play as blue Pinocchio in a silly Nintendo fighter.

 

[Ivander]

Mr. Miyamoto, Super Mario Bros. expands the story and characters beyond the games. Is there anything about this film that surprised you?

Shigeru Miyamoto: One example is bringing the world of Donkey Kong into the Mushroom Kingdom. In this past, there was the the Mario group, and then Donkey Kong was a separate thing in my mind. But looking back, there are games like Mario Party where they appear together — to the point where I was thinking, "Why am I separating them?" And when the idea of bringing them together came up, we just thought it was a great idea.

Hey, Illumination. It'd be really nice if you could convince Miyamoto to do the same for Wario Land, WarioWare and Mario & Luigi and get him to wonder why aren't there any other characters from those in Mario party game spin-offs, including Mario Kart.

 

[dream1ng]

Hey, Illumination. It'd be really nice if you could convince Miyamoto to do the same for Wario Land, WarioWare and Mario & Luigi and get him to wonder why aren't there any other characters from those in Mario party game spin-offs, including Mario Kart.

The cynical part of me thinks this only happened because it was an effective way into familiarizing DK for his own movie, and if they didn't have those plans, they wouldn't have gone forward with embracing the confluence. I mean they were talking about that thing before the movie was even out.

Obviously the two share a world, but you'd think a crossover would be the kind of thing saved for a sequel rather than having DK show up in the first movie when you're still establishing the core Mario cast. But obviously their priority was building the world for future movies (read: money) and sort of just jamming things in there rather than focusing on a well-crafted origin story.

Though I also think that as the old guard at Nintendo moves on, the younger employees will have the same questions and start taking down the barriers.

 

[KatKit]

Now that you mentioned Daisy and I wrote a while ago that Waluigi should get his own series and based on what I remembered from Super Princess Peach I was wondering how would a game starring Daisy, I mean what would be the plot there.

A sassy Daisy/Peach co-op beat-em-up/platformer akin to River City Girls, except it takes place in Mushroom Kingdom and has Mario series references/power-ups and unlockable outfits would be the best thing ever. Bonus points if Pauline and Rosalina are secret characters

 

[chocolatejr9]

A sassy Daisy/Peach co-op beat-em-up/platformer akin to River City Girls, except it takes place in Mushroom Kingdom and has Mario series references/power-ups and unlockable outfits would be the best thing ever. Bonus points if Pauline and Rosalina are secret characters

This just gave me a crazy (and stupid) idea. Bare with me here:

oh no pic.twitter.com/JVpHQ0xf8o

— Dani 🌸✨ (@pichi_peachy) June 21, 2023

So people started noticing that SMB Wonder is including some possible references to the Mario OVA (taking place in the Flower Kingdom, the not-Toads looking like the OVA Toads, and the caterpillar looking like Prince Haru's dog form). Naturally, this has lead some to wonder if they're going to make Prince Haru canon to the games. For those who don't know, Prince Haru was an original character for the film who spent most of it cursed into being a dog by Bowser. At the end of the film, he turns back into a human, and it's revealed that he's destined to marry Peach because they both have the same brooch (meaning Mario did all that work for nothing). Now granted, there wasn't much to work with at the time (pretty sure only SMB1 was out back then), but with how much Nintendo themselves push Mario x Peach, it KINDA left a sour taste in people's mouths in hindsight.

Why am I bringing this up? Because I wanted an excuse to mention the theory, NGL. But also because this prompt gave me an idea for the hypothetical game's twist: Prince Haru is in the game... as the VILLAIN. He's convinced that he's destined to marry Peach, but when he learns about Mario and how he's always saving her, he kidnaps him (and Luigi, so Daisy can have an excuse to join) in order to have Peach for himself. Cue Peach and Daisy deciding to beat the Damsel in Distress allegations and save the Bros.

I'll admit, this was kinda on-the-fly, but... yeah, that's what I got.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm basing it not just on TotK over BotW. I'm basing it on Pikmin 1+2 being over Pikmin 3 in under twelve hours. I'm basing it on both SKUs of XC3 and XC:DE being above XC2. I'm basing it on a game we know didn't sell that great (Sparks of Hope) and it's deluxe edition both separately being above the first title, which was a noted success, and have five more years on the market.

All of which are invalid, because those are games that were sold both physically AND digitally.

The simple fact is, a lot more people buy games digitally now than they did even just 5 years ago. The older games look like they sold less, because more people were buying the physical copies then.

Conversely, the Smash DLC exists entirely as digital sales via the Nintendo marketplace. The marketplace information includes the entirely of Smash's DLC sales. The theory that the digital sales are recency biased is based on shoddy evidence.

But game vs. game is, all else being equal.

Except all else isn't equal. Let's take one of your examples:

Like, the Gen 4 remakes are above Sword and Shield.

Two physical/digital Pokemon games. Equal right? Except no. One of those is a brand new Gen of the type which Pokemon collectors would be more inclined to want to own a physical copy for their bookshelves. While the other is a cheaper looking remake of an older game, which they likely already own physical copies of the original. Something Pokemon fans would be much more comfortable downloading digitally, playing through, and then uninstalling.