Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

i think a cinematic universe is a bad idea, partially cause i feel this trend is on they way out the door but most cause we can't trust illumination to do it. do you really want them doing a metroid film? or fire emblem? or a non toon zelda? sure they're style and tone could work for a few series, kirby, pikmin, splatoon and animal crossing spring to mind but many other not so much

 

[dream1ng]

The problem with the Marvel/Nintendo comparison is that Marvel is its own singular universe. I don't mean like, the 616 or whatever, I mean Spider-Man exists in the same universe as Howard the Duck exists in the same universe as the Punisher, etc etc. It's a shared universe in canon.

Nintendo isn't that. The only thing like that is the Mario/DK/Wario/Yoshi umbrella, who have their shared universe. So the MCU is just like Mario Kart or something, in terms of crossover scope.

Smash Bros would be Marvel and Star Wars and Pixar and the Fox stuff and the classic Disney stuff, etc. Disney is the umbrella like Nintendo is the umbrella, Marvel is just one very fleshed-out and multi-branching universe.

To that end, a shared Nintendo cinematic universe would be like a movie where Iron Man and Darth Vader and Elsa and Homer Simpson are all hanging out. I think it probably works better as a game than an actual somewhat intelligible narrative. Kingdom Hearts can't even keep their **** coherent, lol.

 

[Oracle Link]

i think a cinematic universe is a bad idea, partially cause i feel this trend is on they way out the door but most cause we can't trust illumination to do it. do you really want them doing a metroid film? or fire emblem? or a non toon zelda? sure they're style and tone could work for a few series, kirby, pikmin, splatoon and animal crossing spring to mind but many other not so much

Tone? Kirby, pikmin and splatoon These Franchises have tons of dark stuf that i dont think illumination will touch?

 

[Soy_Man]

Tone? Kirby, pikmin and splatoon These Franchises have tons of dark stuf that i dont think illumination will touch?

They don't need to touch on the dark stuf. There is already plenty of external media, based on these franchises, that are made for babies. The same cannot be done with Metroid.

 

[MasterCheef]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

i really hope it is the second option

 

[Dehya]

Don’t think we’ve discussed items in a wee while, any ideas?

A vehicle item would be unique. I propose something sleek, easy to maneuver, and fun: The Walker from Star Fox 2/Star Fox Zero.

Imagine trampling over opponents with a chicken mech that shoots laser beams. It'll be like a weaker, smaller Landmaster except opponents can attack it and it blows up when damaged.

 

[Sucumbio]

A vehicle item would be unique. I propose something sleek, easy to maneuver, and fun: The Walker from Star Fox 2/Star Fox Zero.

Imagine trampling over opponents with a chicken mech that shoots laser beams. It'll be like a weaker, smaller Landmaster exception opponents can attack it and it blows up when damaged.

That's lit. It could be another one with 3 parts you collect then it transform you and you mech around the stage for a while. Cool!

 

[CapitaineCrash]

The problem with the Marvel/Nintendo comparison is that Marvel is its own singular universe. I don't mean like, the 616 or whatever, I mean Spider-Man exists in the same universe as Howard the Duck exists in the same universe as the Punisher, etc etc. It's a shared universe in canon.

Nintendo isn't that. The only thing like that is the Mario/DK/Wario/Yoshi umbrella, who have their shared universe. So the MCU is just like Mario Kart or something, in terms of crossover scope.

Smash Bros would be Marvel and Star Wars and Pixar and the Fox stuff and the classic Disney stuff, etc. Disney is the umbrella like Nintendo is the umbrella, Marvel is just one very fleshed-out and multi-branching universe.

To that end, a shared Nintendo cinematic universe would be like a movie where Iron Man and Darth Vader and Elsa and Homer Simpson are all hanging out. I think it probably works better as a game than an actual somewhat intelligible narrative. Kingdom Hearts can't even keep their **** coherent, lol.

That's exactly my problem with the idea of a Nintenco cinematic universe. There's also a huge gap between power levels in Nintendo franchise. Of course, Marvel also has different characters level, Thor is obviously way stronger than Spider-Man for example, but it isn't as huge as say Kirby and Fire emblem characters differences.

You would also need to use the same art style for every franchise. It obviously work with Marvel because it's live action. But there's no way a Metroid or Fire emblem movie would have the same art style as Mario movie, it would just be odd and would be ultimately disrespectful to those franchises.

Even putting those issues aside, there's also time and budget problem. Again, MCU works because at this point there's like 10+ different directors each working on different movie and since it's live action, they can just do the filming when they need and when they're ready. But since Nintendo would be animated, they would need they couldn't do that much movie at once (I'm assmuing Illumination can work on roughly 5 movies at the same time). Animated movie take also much more time to complete: The Mario movie took 5 years, which is actually average for Illumination movie (most of their recent movies took 4 years to be complete). This is much longer than fiming a live action movie. Even at fairly good pace, a Nintendo cinematic universe would take 10 years to get like 5 movies at best (assuming Illumination also continue to do their own thing).

 

[Ivander]

You would also need to use the same art style for every franchise. It obviously work with Marvel because it's live action. But there's no way a Metroid or Fire emblem movie would have the same art style as Mario movie, it would just be odd and would be ultimately disrespectful to those franchises.

You can have a similar art style and still be true to a movie or series. To say something like Metroid or Fire Emblem wouldn't work with Mario movie style visuals is like saying Disney 2D Animation wouldn't work with something like Hunchback of Notre Dame or Night on Bald Mountain because they made Mickey Mouse and Winnie the Pooh. Or someone like Heath Ledger would be a horrible fit for the Joker because of most of his previous movies being romances or dramas.

Mario movie style graphics and visuals would not be the issue for Metroid and Fire Emblem. If anything, the actual issue would not be the graphics, but the tone and the handling. Metroid and Fire Emblem are very different feels from Mario. The approach and handling for the Mario movie works because Mario is a very lighthearted series and it's characters work with the goofy and somewhat meme-like tone. With Metroid and Fire Emblem, they are very serious in tone.
While you can have a couple lighthearted moments, characters like Samus and Marth are very different in attitude and personality compared to Mario, an everyday man who can fit any tone and personality he needs to be for the moment. You can see him being serious, angry, doubtful or goofy in any scene he needs to be those emotions in and it wouldn't be out of place.
For someone like Samus and Marth, this is not so easy. In more casual scenes, you could see them being funny or goofy, but in the scenarios they are often in, whether it'd be Samus trying to explore and survive a hostile planet or Marth and his army constantly fighting for their life and world, them being meme-y, goofy or talking quite casually would be very out of place. You can't get away with them constantly saying quick quips and dialogue during their battles/surviving their scenario or having them say a long sentence in a fast or constant dialogue like what modern cartoons, series and movies have been doing for a while now.

That's the real issue. Metroid and Fire Emblem cannot take a casual approach and tone to it's characters compared to Mario. With those series, their scenarios and them are more serious in tone and they need to be handled accordingly. The graphics and styles do very little to hurt Metroid and Fire Emblem. A Mario-movie styled Metroid and Fire Emblem isn't a problem by itself, it's how their characters are handled in tone and approach to their characters. When Samus and Marth are in their scenarios fighting for their survival, they can't just constantly make quips, jokes or sarcastic speech, that is when they need to be serious, what they are doing needs to show they are treating the scenario seriously and the scenarios themselves need to be taken seriously in tone and handling.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Back to what I saying about music from the River City series DarthEnderX and dream1ng , aside from River City Sports Challenge for the DS, there was also River City Sports Challenge All Star Special for the PS3 which was also localized and that game had a large soundtrack full of its own set of remixes. Not just from the original game but from other games too. Then it was followed up by a sequel that was released outside of Japan too.

So it's definitely not so obscure that fans only know about themes from River City Ransom and not from the most popular game in the series that keeps getting remakes and sequels over and over.

 

[HyperSomari64]

It is kinda ironic that people want for this hypothetical NINTENDO Cinematic Universe to include movies from franchises that aren't from Nintendo like Metal Gear or Street Fighter.

It's like if the MCU included characters from other comic books like Batman or Garfield.

 

[fogbadge]

It's like if the MCU included characters from other comic books like Garfield.

The ultimate avenger

 

[SPEN18]

Ya I don't think animation/art style, varying power levels, or lack of an in-canon shared universe outside of Smash itself are the issues; or at least I don't think those considerations would be what stops an NCU from happening. Smash itself proves that you can fit the Nintendo franchises all into one coherent style and one shared universe; the challenge is simply making it less narratively abstract.
Also the comparison with Marvel is only meant superficially; Marvel is simply the most commonly cited as a successful application of the cinematic universe concept. I don't think anybody is necessarily saying that a hypothetical NCU would function anything like the MCU outside the basic concept of having multiple ostensibly disparate films sharing licensing ownership and a continuity (even if that continuity is pieced together through inter-dimensional shenanigans).

That said, I hear the worries over doing a cinematic universe for Nintendo, especially one with a mega-crossover, like a Smash film, that goes beyond Easter-egg-level connections between the movies.
With this sort of thing, it basically all comes down to execution. A successful multifilm franchise on the level of the MCU is rare because you need to be consistent enough with critical and audience reception. You also need a strong and consistent cast (though this is actually less of an issue for animation IMO), and you need thorough and sound long-term planning to an extent beyond almost anything else seen in published media. To me there's little question that Nintendo has the cast and brand strength to make it possible, but regardless of said strength there remains a mountain of difficulties, again simply due to how hard it is to consistently make good films, especially ones burdened with handling licensed IP and, at the same time, cross-media translations (with game-to-film being among the most difficult).

So, in short, I think that a well-executed "NCU" could be very good. It's just that "well-executed" is absolutely not a given should Nintendo actually attempt this route.

 

[RodNutTakin]

I think the whole idea is silly in the same way that I would've gladly traded Subspace for more characters and stages in Brawl. That, and as many others have pointed out, Nintendo's series lineup isn't as unified in presentation as Marvel's.
Smash is a game series museum in party game format to me first and foremost. Let something like Project X Zone focus on an actual huge crossover narrative instead.

 

[Perkilator]

I think the whole idea is silly in the same way that I would've gladly traded Subspace for more characters and stages in Brawl. That, and as many others have pointed out, Nintendo's series lineup isn't as unified in presentation as Marvel's.
Smash is a game series museum in party game format to me first and foremost. Let something like Project X Zone focus on an actual huge crossover narrative instead.

Speaking of which, I’ve been mulling some PxZ-related concepts for a while.

• PxZ3 ideas
• What if Shulk and Lucina were a Pair Unit in PxZ2?
• Kingdom Hearts in Project X Zone

 

[HyperSomari64]

I think the whole idea is silly in the same way that I would've gladly traded Subspace for more characters and stages in Brawl. That, and as many others have pointed out, Nintendo's series lineup isn't as unified in presentation as Marvel's.
Smash is a game series museum in party game format to me first and foremost. Let something like Project X Zone focus on an actual huge crossover narrative instead.

A Super Smash Bros. Movie if it had a similar narrative as the Project X Zone games:

Spoiler: But if you close your eyes...

...Does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?

I'm getting a little tired of this joke myself.

 

[Stratos]

I'm thinking that maybe the Nintendo Cinematic Universe won't happen, of course that's not for sure, but a Mario Cinematic Universe is a possibility that it will definitely happen.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It is recognizable outside of Japan too, which why it had fan translations and two remakes released outside of it before it was officially localized.

I don't think you and I consider the phrase "recognizable" to mean the same thing.

Like, you seem to think that everything in the Double Dragon & Kunio-Kun: Retro Brawler Bundle counts as recognizable, and it just isn't. The bundle itself isn't even recognizable. If you put that in front of most people's faces, almost all of them would go, "What's that?". If you put that in front of most Switch players' faces, most of them would go, "What's that?". If you put it in from of most Smash players' faces, most of them would go, "What's that?".

It's a collection for a somewhat obscure franchise. Downtown Nekketsu March Super-Awesome Field Day is one of the more obscure releases in that collection. The existence of the collection doesn't suddenly make every game in it recognizable. It just makes it slightly less UNrecognizable.

So it's definitely not so obscure that fans only know about themes from River City Ransom and not from the most popular game in the series that keeps getting remakes and sequels over and over.

It is exactly that. If, say, a random youtuber uses a piece of RC music in the background of one of their videos, almost nobody is going to recognize it. That is the "recognize" in "recognizable".

If it's one of those 3 songs I linked, there's actually a chance some viewers will be like "Oh, the shop theme from River City Ransom. Neat." And if it's the Twin's theme, they will go "Oh, Double Dragon theme!"

Like a reverse StarTropics situation? IDK why, but that was the first thing that came to mind reading this.

Sort of. At least NA got SOME Kunio games. Whereas Japan didn't get any StarTropics games.

Seems like it. I would love to see Foreman Spike as a playable character in a future Smash Bros. game. I even made a moveset for him once.

I'd rather see us get a new Wrecking Crew game, starring Waluigi. And then Smash gets Waluigi as it's Wrecking Crew rep.

 

[Sucumbio]

Double Dragon & Kunio-Kun: Retro Brawler Bundlel

What is that?

 

[fogbadge]

What is that?

That is a pysduck

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Nintendo Switch Successor Not Happening for Another Year at Least

Not really surprising to be honest. Nintendo likely wants one more big holiday season for the current Switch, and once that's passed they're in a natural position to build towards the successor., An announcement for the next console around this time next year for release in late fall 2024 feels entirely possible. As far as this year with the Booster Course Pass ending in December 2023, a Switch bundle with MK8 Deluxe and all paid DLC with it would be an easy seller along with whatever big TOTK bundles they do.

 

[Sucumbio]

Nintendo Switch Successor Not Happening for Another Year at Least

Not really surprising to be honest. Nintendo likely wants one more big holiday season for the current Switch, and once that's passed they're in a natural position to build towards the successor., An announcement for the next console around this time next year for release in late fall 2024 feels entirely possible. As far as this year with the Booster Course Pass ending in December 2023, a Switch bundle with MK8 Deluxe and all paid DLC with it would be an easy seller along with whatever big TOTK bundles they do.

Basically fits my idea of a timeline. New console announced next year in spring and released in fall as the late version, announced this fall and released next spring is the early version.

And from this a new smash game in 2026 or an ultimate deluxe in 25.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I don't think you and I consider the phrase "recognizable" to mean the same thing.

Like, you seem to think that everything in the Double Dragon & Kunio-Kun: Retro Brawler Bundle counts as recognizable, and it just isn't. The bundle itself isn't even recognizable. If you put that in front of most people's faces, almost all of them would go, "What's that?". If you put that in front of most Switch players' faces, most of them would go, "What's that?". If you put it in from of most Smash players' faces, most of them would go, "What's that?".

It's a collection for a somewhat obscure franchise. Downtown Nekketsu March Super-Awesome Field Day is one of the more obscure releases in that collection. The existence of the collection doesn't suddenly make every game in it recognizable. It just makes it slightly less UNrecognizable.

People will definitely recognize the name Double Dragon and since by your own admission, they also recognize the River City series, they'll know about the Kunio-kun games too. It's not a matter of putting it in people's faces (in which they can't really do in this case anyway). When they look at the trailers, they'll go "Cool! I'm glad they're finally releasing these games!" You underestimate how people can use the internet these days. Plus, with two remakes already being released outside of it, of course they recognize where it all started.

It is exactly that. If, say, a random youtuber uses a piece of RC music in the background of one of their videos, almost nobody is going to recognize it. That is the "recognize" in "recognizable".

If it's one of those 3 songs I linked, there's actually a chance some viewers will be like "Oh, the shop theme from River City Ransom. Neat." And if it's the Twin's theme, they will go "Oh, Double Dragon theme!"

If it's a theme from one of the most popular game in the series that's gotten remakes over the years, they'll go "I know that theme from River City Super Sports Challenge". Like I said, three localized games have used remixes from that game and two of them were remakes. So yeah, people will recognize them too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If it's a theme from one of the most popular game in the series that's gotten remakes over the years, they'll go "I know that theme from River City Super Sports Challenge".

No they won't. They just won't.

There's no real point in continuing to argue about this. Your idea of how much of the RC franchise is recognizable to people is, at best, misguided.

And I say that as someone that really wants Kunio in Smash. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking Ransom and Girls isn't doing 90% of the heavy lifting there.

 

[Wonder Smash]

No they won't. They just won't.

Yes, they will. They just will.

There's no real point in continuing to argue about this. Your idea of how much of the RC franchise is recognizable to people is, at best, misguided.

And I say that as someone that really wants Kunio in Smash. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking Ransom and Girls isn't doing 90% of the heavy lifting there.

In which I'm surprise you even think that because River City Ransom isn't even the only Kunio-kun game people recognize on the NES. There was Renegade, Super Dodgeball, Nintendo World Cup, and Crash N' The Boys Street Challenge. Then many years later, there was the two River City Super Sports Challenge games, with each of them getting sequels, all before the retro bundle came out.

So with this much exposure outside of Japan, it really doesn't make sense to think people are that clueless about the whole franchise except for just two games that are decades apart from each other.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So... I went ahead and made this for fun.

It's rating the antagonists in Smash by how evil they are (not counting cases of possession or mind control). What do you think? I tried to be as current as possible. Characters are not ordered within tiers.

 

[Sucumbio]

Is Mewtwo an antagonist?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is Mewtwo an antagonist?

He really isn't, past the first movie, but he's considered one enough that I included him.

He's more of a neutral allignment regardless.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is Mewtwo an antagonist?

He's considered killing all humans on more than one occasion.

There was Renegade, Super Dodgeball, Nintendo World Cup, and Crash N' The Boys Street Challenge.

whispers in your ear
Most people don't even know those are River City games on account of their localizations.

 

[Oracle Link]

He's considered killing all humans on more than one occasion.

whispers in your ear
Most people don't even know those are River City games on account of their localizations.

In the anime only in the games he mostly just chills in a cave i mean he might have destroyed pokemon mansion but killing your mean creators versus killing normal (and nice because like most people in pokemon are nice) is a big diffrence also as soon as hes caught by red or Calem/ Serena he immeadiatly becomes obedient/ Friendly with them!

 

[Idon]

Is Mewtwo an antagonist?

I like to think he's representative as the final obstacle in your path to "catch them all" so to speak so in that sense, yeah.

I don't think there's any other legendary pokemon that matches Mewtwo in terms of both iconicness AND "can actually be a fighter"

 

[KingofPhantoms]

So... I went ahead and made this for fun.

It's rating the antagonists in Smash by how evil they are (not counting cases of possession or mind control). What do you think? I tried to be as current as possible. Characters are not ordered within tiers.

Well, K. Rool played baseball with Mario, Donkey Kong and co. once.

So clearly he's not all bad.

 

[DarthEnderX]

also as soon as hes caught by red or Calem/ Serena he immeadiatly becomes obedient/ Friendly with them!

That's true of all Pokemon though, no matter how terrible.

Even child murdering Drifloons are helpless against the mind enslavement of the Pokeball.

 

[fogbadge]

In the anime only in the games he mostly just chills in a cave i mean he might have destroyed pokemon mansion but killing your mean creators versus killing normal

what everyone forgets is that mewtwo has what they call the berserk gene which sends in to a raging fury at times. that's why he destroyed the mansion

child murdering Drifloons

does nobody read the pokedex? "It tugs on the hands of children to steal them away. However, it gets pulled around instead."

I mean there’s loads of ghost types that actually manage to kill people but you all focus on the balloon

 

[Oracle Link]

That's true of all Pokemon though, no matter how terrible.

Even child murdering Drifloons are helpless against the mind enslavement of the Pokeball.

Pokeballs dont mindslve tho? i mean while the anime doesnt count in this disscusion pokemon are still disobedient if traded or refuse a pokeball sometimes in the Games so i think its more that they respect whoever caught them!

 

[Opossum]

Honestly, even leaving aside the fact that a Smash Bros film universe would be an extraordinarily bad idea from the start, the funniest thing is easily the extent some people think it would go.

Like there are some people that think it will not only include every Nintendo franchise on the roster, and even Nintendo franchises that aren't yet on Smash's roster, but all of the third parties as well.

If for some reason a Smash cinematic universe happened, let's be real. There wouldn't be third parties to muddy the rights even further, especially considering many of them already have their film rights with specific studios and companies. And going off of that? We also 99% wouldn't have Pokémon. The way the rights for that franchise work is well beyond the scope of something like this, in addition to the issues a lot of the third parties have.

And you would almost certainly NOT be getting movies for games that aren't even on the roster yet. Nintendo's a soulless megacorp. They'd absolutely go with larger name franchises that are still active over dead ones, and that goes double for dead franchises that don't even have a character in Smash. As much as I'd love movies for games like Hotel Dusk or The Mysterious Murasame Castle...it's not gonna happen lol. Let's be real here. They're not going for the title of Biggest Box Office Bomb by releasing a Chibi-Robo trilogy.

Even if this universe somehow got made, anything beyond the greater Mario universe, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, and Splatoon, with Kirby, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade being a step lower but still very well possible just due to their splits in ownership not being nearly as bad as Pokémon.

Beyond this, the only things I could see maybe getting in are Punch-Out!! (since it's already established as canon in the Mario movie anyway and could bank on the specific western nostalgia for it), Star Fox (if only because Miyamoto seems committed to doing things with it...it just depends on the extent), and F-Zero (and by this I mean Captain Falcon just appearing in the Smash movie... we're not getting F-Zero films). Anything else would be wildly surprising unless someone really wants to make an ARMS movie or something.

And honestly even all of that seems wildly optimistic about the extent it would go. It really does feel like people are enamored more by the idea of a Nintendo Cinematic Universe than they are about the logistics of how it would actually function. Like...this post only went into the "would the films even be made" angle, and not even any of the story or tonal issues that are alarmingly present.

 

[Wonder Smash]

whispers in your ear
Most people don't even know those are River City games on account of their localizations.

So what? Whether they know that or not, it doesn't matter. They are still Kunio-kun games that people recognize.

 

[Quillion]

If you guys are looking for a tide-over, Super Smash Bros. Crusade fangame released an update a few days ago. It has received quite a glow-up in several areas, plus they've moved towards making the movement more Melee-like.

 

[Sucumbio]

Pokeballs dont mindslve tho? i mean while the anime doesnt count in this disscusion pokemon are still disobedient if traded or refuse a pokeball sometimes in the Games so i think its more that they respect whoever caught them!

I must admit just by going off the anime and after 3 seasons so far I've questioned the way society is set up in the presence of Pokemon. That is to say, it doesn't seem to ring "true" some of the writing decisions. But I think this is more to do with Japanese storytelling and less about plausibility.

For instance when Ash tries to catch a wild Chikorita he throws everything but the kitchen sink trying to "weaken it" (beat it down) and when it survives it ends up falling in love with him lol seems like an odd message to send, this whole concept of attacking what you want until it submits and don't worry if you feel guilty because all Pokemon really want to be owned they just don't know it yet like wut...

This is juxtaposed with environmental consciousness and preservation and that some wild Pokemon are off limits. And then others serve as technology.

 

[Ivander]

For instance when Ash tries to catch a wild Chikorita he throws everything but the kitchen sink trying to "weaken it" (beat it down) and when it survives it ends up falling in love with him lol seems like an odd message to send, this whole concept of attacking what you want until it submits and don't worry if you feel guilty because all Pokemon really want to be owned they just don't know it yet like wut...

I haven't seen the episode in a while to get a grasp context, but I mean, the falling in love when beaten in battle or because the opposing character was putting in alot of effort and never giving up is not a foreign concept for TV series, movies and in general. Heck, I'm positive there are a few myths with that setting.

That aside, some of the concepts that Pokemon introduces in the 1st and 2nd Season are dropped in later seasons at some point(like that whole bit from Ekans about there's no such thing as a bad Pokemon, they are forced to do bad things because of their trainer being bad). Part of that is probably because of the writers changing between seasons, as I think Season 1, 2 and half of 3 had the same main writer or because of the games adding new Pokemon in general or because of the games changing or adding in new stuff/lore/etc.