Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

I’m still reading the past few pages trying to determine everything that happened.

For now, I am going to request that the thread not bring up Earthworm Jim for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, good idea. I’m sorry I brought him up. I never would have done it if I knew everything about the creator beforehand.

 

[Zerp]

how would you make sans work while being faithful to the fact that he dies to literally anything? is that even possible?

Maybe they could give him a set amount of hits to magically avoid with a "miss" mechanic? And then any hit after that just makes him explode instantly. Would definitely be a nightmare to balance around but seems like a feasible direction they could go.

 

[fogbadge]

Maybe they could give him a set amount of hits to magically avoid with a "miss" mechanic? And then any hit after that just makes him explode instantly. Would definitely be a nightmare to balance around but seems like a feasible direction they could go.

could you balance that?

 

[Gengar84]

That reminds me of an interesting gimmick for a character I’ve brought up here before a couple of times. I don’t know how many of you are familiar with an adventure series on the PS1 and PS2 known as the Legacy of Kain and its side series, Soul Reaver. In Soul Reaver, the main character is a vampiric wraith names Raziel who constantly loses health but is able to regain it through defeating enemies and absorbing their souls. I thought this could be simplified in Smash through draining health on melee attacks. I’m not sure how well this could be balanced as it might incentivize his opponents to run away the whole match but it could be fun if implemented well. Illidan from WarCraft has a similar power up state that allows him to drain health but without Raziel’s drawback. Either character could be really fun and unique in Smash both visually and mechanically.

 

[Zerp]

could you balance that?

Yes and no. Really would depend on whether or not they make Sans a zoner. If so, no, I don't think it's something they could really balance lol. Forcing say, Ganondorf to win like 10 neutral interactions to kill a character is insanely unfair for him. But if Sans isn't a zoner (or just kinda sucks in general) then it might not be a problem. Really would be a thing that'd require heavy playtesting either way.

That said, a character being a balancing nightmare hasn't ever stopped anyone from getting in.

 

[Will]

Maybe they could give him a set amount of hits to magically avoid with a "miss" mechanic? And then any hit after that just makes him explode instantly. Would definitely be a nightmare to balance around but seems like a feasible direction they could go.

That sounds like certain characters have more advantage based on if they have stupid strong moves like Ganondorf or if they have multihits like Pit. I wouldn’t dislike it but it sounds difficult to make balanced.

 

[osby]

That reminds me of an interesting gimmick for a character I’ve brought up here before a couple of times. I don’t know how many of you are familiar with an adventure series on the PS1 and PS2 known as the Legacy of Kain and its side series, Soul Reaver. In Soul Reaver, the main character is a vampiric wraith names Raziel who constantly loses health but is able to regain it through defeating enemies and absorbing their souls. I thought this could be simplified in Smash through draining health on melee attacks. I’m not sure how well this could be balanced as it might incentivize his opponents to run away the whole match but it could be fun if implemented well. Illidan from WarCraft has a similar power up state that allows him to drain health but without Raziel’s drawback. Either character could be really fun and unique in Smash both visually and mechanically.

Taking damage constantly under any circumstance might be weird in Smash maybe it could work similar to Ragna's Drive in Blazblue, where his low health is mitigated by certain attacks stealing opponents' health.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

3DS/Wii U eShop Retrospective + Last Minute Suggestions

On March 27th, 2023 at 5:00 PM Pacific Time, the eShops for the 3DS and Wii U will no longer be possible to make purchases from. You already can not add funds with a credit card or a Nintendo Card. It is still possible to add funds if your Nintendo Network account is connected to a Nintendo...

smashboards.com

Me and some of the rest of the writing team did an article about the eShop closing. What are a few of your favorite games that we did not discuss on the eShop?

 

[chocolatejr9]

3DS/Wii U eShop Retrospective + Last Minute Suggestions

On March 27th, 2023 at 5:00 PM Pacific Time, the eShops for the 3DS and Wii U will no longer be possible to make purchases from. You already can not add funds with a credit card or a Nintendo Card. It is still possible to add funds if your Nintendo Network account is connected to a Nintendo...

smashboards.com

Me and some of the rest of the writing team did an article about the eShop closing. What are a few of your favorite games that we did not discuss on the eShop?

I know this is cheating since they weren't eShop exclusives, but I still fondly remember Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. and Ever Oasis. Those games were pretty fun.

 

[Ivander]

inhales deeply

BRUH.

I knew TenNapel was bad, but now I have more reason to be ashamed that I'm a Christian. AND HE MADE CATSCRATCH TOO!?!? No wonder Nick never acknowledges it...

oh wow. that is pretty awful. I found professor monkey for a head rather humorous I had no idea it was attack on anyone. I come from a Christian background as well but I’ve lucky enough to come from a family of very nice people who by all accounts are tolerant of all peoples.

Spoiler

It's honestly awful when you have the Christians who believe they gotten a license to do or say whatever they want without consequence or the ones who are so militantly righteous that they let their prejudice hurt others for what is actually evil or what they think is evil. Especially when Jesus, Paul and some of the other saints make this very clear neither is acceptable. And it's probably still going to be a while before Jesus and God sort out the good and bad followers, or the good fish and bad fish as Jesus put it.

But throughout, God and Jesus are very clear about the former who think they can do whatever as long as they believe are in for a very harsh truth. God didn't stop his people from being taken to Babylon when they kept saying, "We are God's people and he said nothing bad will happen to us." and yet didn't stop doing the bad things they indulged in, as well as forgot that God did promise them when giving them the Law that if they sinned and didn't stop sinning, they would be taken out of their land. And the Apostles like Peter, Paul, John, etc had to deal with this behaviour in the church's early days too.
And in the case of the latter, you let righteousness do the thinking for you and let it take leadership over doing what you should be doing, you don't become any different from the Pharisees who witch-hunted and killed Jesus for doing what they believed was wrong and blasphemous. And Paul makes it quite clear that you go into either direction too much, you are not only in danger, but you could possibly never come back from either and be saved. As Jesus put it, "You will say, 'We did good things and rights in your name.' and I will say begone you evil people. I don't know you." or something along that line.

For us, besides doing what is good, we can only hope and pray that some of these Christians or so-called Christians change for the better and that God will give justice for the good people who suffered from the really bad Christians.

TCT~Phantom

Spoiler: While I know you re-edited your statement...

It's dangerous to simply say, "If it's offensive to these people, it's offensive." when you are still referring to a group of still variably different people Basically, anything can be offensive to some people while possibly not being offensive to the majority. Some people don't like broccoli and find it offensive. Heck, the first George Bush hated it and banned it from the White House Does that mean Broccoli is offensive?

While the dude is very clearly transphobic and clearly intended his creations to be anti-something, this is not going to be the case for every creator who creates something that may look similar unintentionally. And in the case for other communities and the community themselves, some are going to find something that they say is offensive and others won't. The Internet is the go-to place for people to bring out what they find is offensive while those who don't will most likely not, not to mention those who don't have access to internet.
And those communities aren't exceptions for some having questionable views and having people who will scream "Phobic" at anybody who doesn't agree with them. I'm just saying it's dangerous, and rather lacking/dodgy/whatever term I'm looking for, to say by itself, that if a community finds something offensive, it is in fact offensive when that could only be some of that community finding it offensive.

----
Anyway, in terms of 3DS and Wii U eshop titles to get, I'm once again asking people to get Culdcept Revolt.

 

[Laniv]

On the topic of Sans: I've been recently tossing around an idea where he and Papyrus fight in tandem, but not really: Papyrus is walking and fighting on the stage itself, but Sans is lounging around in the background like Pokémon Trainer, occasionally sneakily helping his bro with an attack or two. Once Papyrus is KO'd, Sans steps in to fight, with powerful attacks using bones and the Gaster Blasters, but his main drawback being that he's ridiculously light, and once he joins the battle, he still has the same damage Papyrus had when he lost the stock. Think of him like a desperation hail-mary opportunity to get 'em before they get you.

Does that sound feasible?

 

[Perkilator]

These aren’t eShop exclusive, but it’s a shame both Project X Zone games were delisted back in 2017.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Funny how nobody listens to me when I try to keep things cool but that's alright though.

Anyway, does anybody think Urban Champion should be represented as a retro stage?

 

[HyperSomari64]

There should be a Senran Kagura stage without a character (neither playable or assist)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Funny how nobody listens to me when I try to keep things cool but that's alright though.

Anyway, does anybody think Urban Champion should be represented as a retro stage?

Honestly I don't think Urban Champion is really notable enough to get anything.

I mean, did it even get a spirit?

 

[CommanderZaktan]

So I thought up a feature for the next smash game. Smash 4 has custom moves, and the next one will have play styles, similar to MKX and 11. Every fighter will have their own 2 fighting styles. For example Mario will have a default and the other is his medical license. Another and great example is Urshifu of its Single Strike Style and Rapid Strike Style

 

[Perkilator]

Honestly I don't think Urban Champion is really notable enough to get anything.

I mean, did it even get a spirit?

Yeah. The actual Spirit Battle is against Little Mac on New Donk Ω.

 

[Ivander]

Honestly I don't think Urban Champion is really notable enough to get anything.

I mean, did it even get a spirit?

Yes it did. Called Urban Champion Fighter.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean, did it even get a spirit?

yep

edit: double ninjaed

 

[Gengar84]

So I thought up a feature for the next smash game. Smash 4 has custom moves, and the next one will have play styles, similar to MKX and 11. Every fighter will have their own 2 fighting styles. For example Mario will have a default and the other is his medical license. Another and great example is Urshifu of its Single Strike Style and Rapid Strike Style

That’s an interesting idea but I imagine it could be pretty difficult to implement with a roster as big as Smash’s.

As for stages, the two I want to see most that don’t necessarily need a character are TETRIS and any area from Octopath Traveller. TETRIS just seems like the perfect fit for this since it’s so iconic with an easy stage gimmick. Octopath is mostly for the visuals and music. It was the start of the HD-2D aesthetic and it has an amazing soundtrack that would be awesome to have in Smash. The games don’t have any singular main character so anyone they choose would feel a bit random (though I’d still love to see H’aanit from the first game).

Just listen to this awesome boss battle theme and tell me it wouldn’t be great in Smash:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Spoiler

It's honestly awful when you have the Christians who believe they gotten a license to do or say whatever they want without consequence or the ones who are so militantly righteous that they let their prejudice hurt others for what is actually evil or what they think is evil. Especially when Jesus, Paul and some of the other saints make this very clear neither is acceptable. And it's probably still going to be a while before Jesus and God sort out the good and bad followers, or the good fish and bad fish as Jesus put it.

But throughout, God and Jesus are very clear about the former who think they can do whatever as long as they believe are in for a very harsh truth. God didn't stop his people from being taken to Babylon when they kept saying, "We are God's people and he said nothing bad will happen to us." and yet didn't stop doing the bad things they indulged in, as well as forgot that God did promise them when giving them the Law that if they sinned and didn't stop sinning, they would be taken out of their land. And the Apostles like Peter, Paul, John, etc had to deal with this behaviour in the church's early days too.
And in the case of the latter, you let righteousness do the thinking for you and let it take leadership over doing what you should be doing, you don't become any different from the Pharisees who witch-hunted and killed Jesus for doing what they believed was wrong and blasphemous. And Paul makes it quite clear that you go into either direction too much, you are not only in danger, but you could possibly never come back from either and be saved. As Jesus put it, "You will say, 'We did good things and rights in your name.' and I will say begone you evil people. I don't know you." or something along that line.

For us, besides doing what is good, we can only hope and pray that some of these Christians or so-called Christians change for the better and that God will give justice for the good people who suffered from the really bad Christians.

TCT~Phantom

Spoiler: While I know you re-edited your statement...

It's dangerous to simply say, "If it's offensive to these people, it's offensive." when you are still referring to a group of still variably different people Basically, anything can be offensive to some people while possibly not being offensive to the majority. Some people don't like broccoli and find it offensive. Heck, the first George Bush hated it and banned it from the White House Does that mean Broccoli is offensive?

While the dude is very clearly transphobic and clearly intended his creations to be anti-something, this is not going to be the case for every creator who creates something that may look similar unintentionally. And in the case for other communities and the community themselves, some are going to find something that they say is offensive and others won't. The Internet is the go-to place for people to bring out what they find is offensive while those who don't will most likely not, not to mention those who don't have access to internet.
And those communities aren't exceptions for some having questionable views and having people who will scream "Phobic" at anybody who doesn't agree with them. I'm just saying it's dangerous, and rather lacking/dodgy/whatever term I'm looking for, to say by itself, that if a community finds something offensive, it is in fact offensive when that could only be some of that community finding it offensive.

----
Anyway, in terms of 3DS and Wii U eshop titles to get, I'm once again asking people to get Culdcept Revolt.

Spoiler

I am not going to debate the situation. TenNapel is a known bigot and I am not going to mince words on that. I also am not going to debate wishy washy cancel culture concerns right now.

Also referring to the LGBTQ+ community as "those communities" rubs me very much the wrong way.

Funny how nobody listens to me when I try to keep things cool but that's alright though.

Anyway, does anybody think Urban Champion should be represented as a retro stage?

I would not describe what you did earlier today as "keeping things cool". Given that there were one and a half pages calling out the problematic stuff you were defending, that is not "keeping things cool". Please do not try to defend known bigots in the future.

--------------------------

So I thought up a feature for the next smash game. Smash 4 has custom moves, and the next one will have play styles, similar to MKX and 11. Every fighter will have their own 2 fighting styles. For example Mario will have a default and the other is his medical license. Another and great example is Urshifu of its Single Strike Style and Rapid Strike Style

Ill be honest, I am not much of a fan of how this style of customization works. There usually just ends up having one dominant method that overshadows the others. Look at UMVC3 or DBFZ for examples. 90% of the time, you are going to go with the optimal assist. That is just on one move. Balancing it for moveset alterations is even harder. I was not a fan of it in MKX or 11.

At that point, I would rather just have more echo fighters or clones. Have characters that have those demarcations that let them diversify a bit. I would rather handle that than try to create a custom second set for every single character in the game.

 

[Ivander]

Spoiler

Also referring to the LGBTQ+ community as "those communities" rubs me very much the wrong way.

Spoiler

I wasn't exactly trying to debate. I just think it's dangerous to generalise the whole "people find something offensive, thus it is offensive" deal when in some cases, it could literally only be a few people. I'm neither denying or debating that the guy is transphobic and a bigot.

And I apologize if I came across as insensitive or whatnot with the way I said "those communities". That was not my intention, especially when later, I wasn't only talking about the LGBTQ+ community, but other communities as well, whether they be religious communities, protest communities, gaming communities, etc.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I would not describe what you did earlier today as "keeping things cool". Given that there were one and a half pages calling out the problematic stuff you were defending, that is not "keeping things cool". Please do not try to defend known bigots in the future.

See? There you go. I said talk about the character and focus only on that and you turned that into me "defending known bigots". Either you completely missed that (possibly on purpose), or I guess some people can't help but being negative about everything they see.

Honestly I don't think Urban Champion is really notable enough to get anything.

I mean, did it even get a spirit?

Yeah, it had a spirit.

yep

edit: double ninjaed

And I got tripled. lol

 

[Speed Weed]

That reminds me of an interesting gimmick for a character I’ve brought up here before a couple of times. I don’t know how many of you are familiar with an adventure series on the PS1 and PS2 known as the Legacy of Kain and its side series, Soul Reaver. In Soul Reaver, the main character is a vampiric wraith names Raziel who constantly loses health but is able to regain it through defeating enemies and absorbing their souls. I thought this could be simplified in Smash through draining health on melee attacks. I’m not sure how well this could be balanced as it might incentivize his opponents to run away the whole match but it could be fun if implemented well. Illidan from WarCraft has a similar power up state that allows him to drain health but without Raziel’s drawback. Either character could be really fun and unique in Smash both visually and mechanically.

View attachment 369620
View attachment 369622

Soul Reaver is on my list of games to play someday, this series looks sick

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Ill be honest, I am not much of a fan of how this style of customization works. There usually just ends up having one dominant method that overshadows the others. Look at UMVC3 or DBFZ for examples. 90% of the time, you are going to go with the optimal assist. That is just on one move. Balancing it for moveset alterations is even harder. I was not a fan of it in MKX or 11.

At that point, I would rather just have more echo fighters or clones. Have characters that have those demarcations that let them diversify a bit. I would rather handle that than try to create a custom second set for every single character in the game.

Ok, So will you be ok if Urshifu can have 2 different styles before the match starts?

 

[NintenZ]

So I recently thought about the idea of a Final Fantasy 10 character in Smash

Let’s be honest, Final Fantasy as a series’ representation? Is pretty damn bad. One game represented, very small amount of music, no staple songs are present (not even the series’ main theme). A way to rectify that? Add a character from the most popular non-MMO entry behind 7.

There’s two options, you could have Tidus, or Yuna. While I think Yuna would probably bring more interesting gameplay options, Tidus is the main character so I assume they would go with him.

Was thinking for his moveset you could have him using his Overdrives for his specials, and his final smash?

Yuna throws the ball!

 

[HyperSomari64]

Imagine if there was a collection of the Cross series (Namco X Capcom and Project X Zone 1 + 2) for the Switch.
And Mono makes the decision of making a Sora in SSBU-style reveal for Sonic as the final character for some Season Pass or whatever the DLC packs are organized.
That's not as crazy as selling DDD's old design for RtDL DX as DLC.

 

[Gengar84]

So I recently thought about the idea of a Final Fantasy 10 character in Smash

Let’s be honest, Final Fantasy as a series’ representation? Is pretty damn bad. One game represented, very small amount of music, no staple songs are present (not even the series’ main theme). A way to rectify that? Add a character from the most popular non-MMO entry behind 7.

There’s two options, you could have Tidus, or Yuna. While I think Yuna would probably bring more interesting gameplay options, Tidus is the main character so I assume they would go with him.

Was thinking for his moveset you could have him using his Overdrives for his specials, and his final smash?
View attachment 369633
Yuna throws the ball!

My two favorite characters are Lulu and Auron but I don’t see either happening. I do prefer Tidus to Yuna as a character but I agree Yuna would be more interesting moveset wise so I’d go with her. I love the idea of a summoner character in Smash and her Aeons are really cool.

 

[fogbadge]

So I recently thought about the idea of a Final Fantasy 10 character in Smash

Let’s be honest, Final Fantasy as a series’ representation? Is pretty damn bad. One game represented, very small amount of music, no staple songs are present (not even the series’ main theme). A way to rectify that? Add a character from the most popular non-MMO entry behind 7.

There’s two options, you could have Tidus, or Yuna. While I think Yuna would probably bring more interesting gameplay options, Tidus is the main character so I assume they would go with him.

Was thinking for his moveset you could have him using his Overdrives for his specials, and his final smash?
View attachment 369633
Yuna throws the ball!

any of the 7 of them would be cool

 

[chocolatejr9]

So I recently thought about the idea of a Final Fantasy 10 character in Smash

Let’s be honest, Final Fantasy as a series’ representation? Is pretty damn bad. One game represented, very small amount of music, no staple songs are present (not even the series’ main theme). A way to rectify that? Add a character from the most popular non-MMO entry behind 7.

There’s two options, you could have Tidus, or Yuna. While I think Yuna would probably bring more interesting gameplay options, Tidus is the main character so I assume they would go with him.

Was thinking for his moveset you could have him using his Overdrives for his specials, and his final smash?
View attachment 369633
Yuna throws the ball!

FINALLY, another person who thinks FF10 content would be neat!

Or maybe I'm only now noticing. I'll admit, I'm kinda bad at this sort of thing...

 

[NintenZ]

My two favorite characters are Lulu and Auron but I don’t see either happening. I do prefer Tidus to Yuna as a character but I agree Yuna would be more interesting moveset wise so I’d go with her. I love the idea of a summoner character in Smash and her Aeons are really cool.

We have Cloud and Sephiroth. I don’t think it’s entirely out of the question that we could eventually get Tidus and Yuna but one or the other would happen first.

FINALLY, another person who thinks FF10 content would be neat!

Or maybe I'm only now noticing. I'll admit, I'm kinda bad at this sort of thing...

Tbh it’s kinda weird 10 has nothing, it was a generation-defining title and was arguably just as impactful as 7 was, I do hope if any additional Final Fantasy game is represented it’s at the very least 10, for it’s legacy.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

X is pretty significant as far as Final Fantasy titles, but I suspect the immediate instinct by many people is that any addtional FF content besides VII will come from VI sooner than anything else. I'm not saying that's necessary likely, just want many people believe.

 

[NintenZ]

X is pretty significant as far as Final Fantasy titles, but I suspect the immediate instinct by many people is that any addtional FF content besides VII will come from VI sooner than anything else. I'm not saying that's necessary likely, just want many people believe.

I feel like this goes back to what Sakurai said in his Famitsu column about Cloud with Tetsuya Nomura.

He said how he could’ve gone with Bartz or Terra but some people wouldn’t know who they are.

I feel it’s kinda similar here, Tidus and Yuna are both pretty big names, I feel like more people would know who they are compared to someone like Terra because of X’s success.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I dont expect FF to get anything more in the future because of the legal headache.

Auron is cool tho.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I feel like this goes back to what Sakurai said in his Famitsu column about Cloud with Tetsuya Nomura.

He said how he could’ve gone with Bartz or Terra but some people wouldn’t know who they are.

I feel it’s kinda similar here, Tidus and Yuna are both pretty big names, I feel like more people would know who they are compared to someone like Terra because of X’s success.

Its a tricky situation because so many factors are in play; what characters dance in Sakurai's head as far as movesets, what Square Enix wants to push, if representation of the older FF titles would be a consideration.

 

[Perkilator]

Tbh it’s kinda weird 10 has nothing, it was a generation-defining title and was arguably just as impactful as 7 was, I do hope if any additional Final Fantasy game is represented it’s at the very least 10, for it’s legacy.

Really, FF in general should've had more content from games outside VII in base Ultimate. With this doc, I intentionally ignored the content from Sephiroth’s Challenger Pack.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Your reaction if Final Fantasy gets another game represented... and its Lightning and Final Fantasy XIII?

 

[NintenZ]

Your reaction if Final Fantasy gets another game represented... and its Lightning and Final Fantasy XIII?

I mean I would understand she is very popular but like also… Why?

 

[Speed Weed]

I think the ideal next option is Fat Chocobo

 

[Schnee117]

FFXIV is absolutely key to consider for future FF rep with it being an evergreen title since it's comeback with Realm Reborn with each expansion being a major hit for Square each time.

Actually this is a good extension:

Really, FF in general should've had more content from games outside VII in base Ultimate. With this doc, I intentionally ignored the content from Sephiroth’s Challenger Pack.

Like, it'd absolutely get way more than just Y'shtola and Zenos spirits plus a single song.
It's Square's biggest money maker.

Your reaction if Final Fantasy gets another game represented... and its Lightning and Final Fantasy XIII?

As long as we get Crazy Chocobo it's worth it

It'd still be weird overall but on the other hand, the best Chocobo theme.