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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Capybara Gaming

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In regards to Multiversus, the game had promising potential... that it absolutely squandered. I've been saying since the beginning that it's just speaking not as fun to play as Smash or even NASB - it has some gameplay mechanics (among other issues) I take serious issue with that make it just not as memorable as it's contemporaries.
 

Opossum

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You know, seeing this talk about MultiVersus, I have been thinking; Phil Spencer of Microsoft's Xbox games said he did not want to do a Microsoft Smash Bros. like game because he felt it would not measure up to the actual Smash Bros. games.

From how the likes of MultiVersus is doing, looks like he is right so far. I can't say I blame him for not making a Microsoft-based Smash Bros. game now.
I mean, that's not at all what's been killing Multiversus. The issue there was that it's gone four months now without a new character when they used to add them every other week. A live service game with that big of a content drought relative to its lifespan won't sustain players.

The game had healthy player numbers before they dipped after they released Marvin the Martian and then nothing else.
 

CannonStreak

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I mean, that's not at all what's been killing Multiversus. The issue there was that it's gone four months now without a new character when they used to add them every other week. A live service game with that big of a content drought relative to its lifespan won't sustain players.

The game had healthy player numbers before they dipped after they released Marvin the Martian and then nothing else.
Well, I was open to other possibilities. I guess I should have made it clear more as well as the fact that I meant not just that game, but Smash Bros. clones as a whole.

But yeah, it sucks that no more characters were added. Were there even supposed to be more additions?
 

Stratos

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Regarding the Pokémon anime series, I've always loved the rivalry between Ash's Pikachu and Team Rocket's Meowth, too bad we won't see that rivalry again in the new Pokémon anime series. I don't know how some people see it, but for me it's never too late to have Meowth as a new character for future Super Smash Bros. games.
 

Perkilator

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Regarding the Pokémon anime series, I've always loved the rivalry between Ash's Pikachu and Team Rocket's Meowth, too bad we won't see that rivalry again in the new Pokémon anime series. I don't know how some people see it, but for me it's never too late to have Meowth as a new character for future Super Smash Bros. games.
I don't know how many times I should preach it but Meowth should've been one of the OG 12
 

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Well, I was open to other possibilities. I guess I should have made it clear more as well as the fact that I meant not just that game, but Smash Bros. clones as a whole.

But yeah, it sucks that no more characters were added. Were there even supposed to be more additions?
It's a live service game. Things aren't meant to stop being added until the game dies. To put it into perspective, the roster right now has 23 characters.

...There are about 24 characters who have been leaked beyond those available right now, plus another five who were assumed to have been dropped for one reason or another.

So the content pipeline was meant to be massive.
 

Wonder Smash

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A small price to pay for people to stop insisting Persona is just an SMT spin-off.
I don't see why they need to stop saying that because that's what it is. The fact that SMT characters appear in Persona but not in Smash along with them is just the unfortunate reality of it in this case.
 
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CannonStreak

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It's a live service game. Things aren't meant to stop being added until the game dies. To put it into perspective, the roster right now has 23 characters.

...There are about 24 characters who have been leaked beyond those available right now, plus another five who were assumed to have been dropped for one reason or another.

So the content pipeline was meant to be massive.
Ah, I see. Still, with it being online based as someone else said and all, I don’t think it would last as a very comparable-to-Smash-Bros game or maybe a good enough Smash clone, with one reason; as someone said; bring it being more online means you can’t play it when it goes offline, unlike the Smash games themselves. Plus, with what has happened and the drop in the player base, I do not think the appeal would last long for MultiVersus anyway. I do see adding more characters WOULD actually expand its lifespan some, but I don’t think it would be long enough to have the appeal of Smash Bros. games, if you know what I mean.
 

Curious Villager

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Yeah, I never liked the term “killer”. We can have multiple games with a similar theme or playstyle without one killing the other. I think Level 5’s Dark Cloud on the PS2 ran into the same problem in relation to Zelda.
Level-5 in general has had a bad history of people calling any new IP they made "X-series killers" It happened with Dark Cloud being called a "Zelda killer" and Yo-Kai Watch being called a "Pokemon Killer" I don't know if anyone ever called Fantasy Life an "Animal Crossing Killer" but if not then I guess it luckily dodged a massive bullet and was allowed to thrive in its own right...

To this day I praise the high heavens no one ever called Professor Layton a "Brain Age/Ace Attorney killer"....
 
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CapitaineCrash

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Quite a thought to think about. Smash has lasted for over 20 years yet not a competitor can stand against consistently.

Not NASB or Multiversus. I wonder why that is.....

Honestly I think the main reason why nobody can compete with Smash is simply budget and time issues. Smash is by far the platform fighter with the biggest team, and not only that but with Ultimate they could continue development and use assets from Smash 4 to create a huge roster, and they were lucky to have the same team. No fighting game can have a development time this long. And this is where NASB suffered a lot. I think gameplay alone NASB is very good actually, but with such a small team and budget they had to sacrifice animation and overall content (no unlockables or collectibles, no skins, no single player mode etc.). Playstation all stars had the same issue. There's many leaked documents and concept of the game that showed that they had huge plans for the game roster (including Crash and Spyro, Lara Croft and Cloud), but they couldn't get any third party in with their small budget. There was also 4 aditionnal dlc characters in development (Abe, Dart, Ryu Hayabusa and Tombi) but they all got abandonned probably because the first few dlc didn't sold as much as Sony expected.
 

chocolatejr9

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You know, seeing this talk about MultiVersus, I have been thinking; Phil Spencer of Microsoft's Xbox games said he did not want to do a Microsoft Smash Bros. like game because he felt it would not measure up to the actual Smash Bros. games.

From how the likes of MultiVersus is doing, looks like he is right so far. I can't say I blame him for not making a Microsoft-based Smash Bros. game now.
Plus, why bother making your own and likely failing when you can buddy up with the other guy and go for the real deal?
 

Stratos

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Any game out there that is similar to the Super Smash Bros. series, no and I mean no other game compares to the Super Smash Bros. series for me, the Super Smash Bros. series. it is the one and only for me, no other similar game can surpass it in fame, in other words other games that are similar mean nothing to me.
 

chocolatejr9

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Honestly I think the main reason why nobody can compete with Smash is simply budget and time issues. Smash is by far the platform fighter with the biggest team, and not only that but with Ultimate they could continue development and use assets from Smash 4 to create a huge roster, and they were lucky to have the same team. No fighting game can have a development time this long. And this is where NASB suffered a lot. I think gameplay alone NASB is very good actually, but with such a small team and budget they had to sacrifice animation and overall content (no unlockables or collectibles, no skins, no single player mode etc.). Playstation all stars had the same issue. There's many leaked documents and concept of the game that showed that they had huge plans for the game roster (including Crash and Spyro, Lara Croft and Cloud), but they couldn't get any third party in with their small budget. There was also 4 aditionnal dlc characters in development (Abe, Dart, Ryu Hayabusa and Tombi) but they all got abandonned probably because the first few dlc didn't sold as much as Sony expected.
Man, PSABR was just downright tragic, in a way. Some of those characters are likely never gonna get acknowledged again thanks to Sony's current priorities...
 

CannonStreak

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Competition is a good thing, so by all means you should wish for other platform fighters to be successful.
I am gonna have to agree. Not that I was intentionally showing any sign of being against it, but yeah, the world and universe itself is rather based around the idea of competition, and it is something that should be important in the realm of business as well.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Well, I was open to other possibilities. I guess I should have made it clear more as well as the fact that I meant not just that game, but Smash Bros. clones as a whole.

But yeah, it sucks that no more characters were added. Were there even supposed to be more additions?
I remember hearing that Samurai Jack, Lord of the rings and Harry potter stuff was in the game files, my first assumption being that licensing issues have gotten in the way.


Ironic, since there is a crossover between AA and PL.
This has nothing to do with the conversation but i find it extremely wholesome that Professor Layton was a game conceptualized by an Ace Attorney fan, who would later collab with Ace Attorney and as a result inspire the creator of Ace Attorney to return to the series and make the Great Ace Attorney
 

CapitaineCrash

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Man, PSABR was just downright tragic, in a way. Some of those characters are likely never gonna get acknowledged again thanks to Sony's current priorities...
Yeah to be honest while I can understand why people were sad with PSABR roster, I'm going to give them credits for adding many retro characters like Spike, Parappa and Sir Daniel. But yeah at this point I doubt we'll see a sequel to the game because Sony seems way more excited about big budget narrative game (and to be honest I can't blame them, this formula since to work really well for them and I'm glad they found their identity instead of trying too hard to do family games).
 

LiveStudioAudience

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SSB's endurance is very much due to its timing and patience. Platform fighters were fairly rare at the time of its release, and its been tended to as a franchise to become the behemoth it is now. I'd argue that Smash didn't really become Smash as we know it until a few years after Melee's rel;ease when its evergreen status and depth become so apparent that it went from an exciting Gamecube release to THE Gamecube release. From there its gotten bigger in every sense to eventually becoming what it is now.

That's much harder to do know in a gaming market that is both risk averse and expecting huge returns immediately. Few publishers are willing to gradually grow a platform fighter's success over time and accept that the execution and reception won't be ideal at first. PASBR could have become more, but even at the time of its release Sony saw it as too much of money sink in the short term to try building on it.

Moreover as Smash becomes more entrenched as the title of its genre, even more companies are reluctant to try something in it given both polish the series has managed to achieve and the all star cast of characters. That Microsoft, a company with remarkable amounts of money and its own strong line up of hypothetical fighters; even they think competing with SSB is foolhardy? That tells you everything about how much an uphill climb something like Multiversus has.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I'm starting to think accusing NASB/MVS of trying to be Smash killers is less assuming the devs actually want to kill Smash, and more like you're stating "I will not have any interest in this game unless it actually puts a dent in Smash's popularity".
 

CannonStreak

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I'm starting to think accusing NASB/MVS of trying to be Smash killers is less assuming the devs actually want to kill Smash, and more like you're stating "I will not have any interest in this game unless it actually puts a dent in Smash's popularity".
Yeah, I see what you mean. It is a bad case of bad bias and scapegoating (if that is the right word) that prevents people from accepting games for what they are and as means of finding excuses to not like a game and try to spread that dislike around. Quite sad, huh?
 

Wonder Smash

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Any game out there that is similar to the Super Smash Bros. series, no and I mean no other game compares to the Super Smash Bros. series for me, the Super Smash Bros. series. it is the one and only for me, no other similar game can surpass it in fame, in other words other games that are similar mean nothing to me.
That kind of mentality is not a good look, especially for a Smash fan. You should want to see beyond just one series.

Competition is a good thing, so by all means you should wish for other platform fighters to be successful.
Yeah, it's good see the genre expand beyond just what Smash brings. That's why I had high hopes for PlayStation All-Stars. It had so much potential and I was very disappointed that they didn't follow up on it.
 
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Stratos

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I read somewhere earlier that after the Detective Pikachu movie there would be a Cinematic Universe or at least a Super Smash Bros. movie, something that didn't happen, but to do that they need a lot of money to build something like this and above all a lot of work.
 

CannonStreak

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On the topic of Sony, which has found its success in big budget narrative games; call me crazy, but I think Sony should have been third party if that is the case. Sure, they are in the console market now, and they have had great success, but I don't think that even with this success, they are fit anymore to make consoles if they aren't willing to broaden their scope and try to appeal to more than just the people they appeal to now. Even their success can only last so long. It is my opinion, but I am starting to think of Sony as not "console material", anymore for that matter. I could be wrong, but yeah...
 

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I think the big issue is that a lot of platform fighters keep trying to beat Smash in the crossover aspect. You can't do that.

It's why Rivals of Aether was one of the few that succeeded. It didn't even try to pretend it was some big crossover event.
 

fogbadge

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Level-5 in general has had a bad history of people calling any new IP they made "X-series killers" It happened with Dark Cloud being called a "Zelda killer" and Yo-Kai Watch being called a "Pokemon Killer" I don't know if anyone ever called Fantasy Life an "Animal Crossing Killer" but if not then I guess it luckily dodged a massive bullet and was allowed to thrive in its own right...

To this day I praise the high heavens no one ever called Professor Layton a "Brain Age/Ace Attorney killer"....
i always felt yo-kai watch being compared to pokemon was unfair. cause it always felt like YW was trying to be it's own thing not a pokemon killer. and i've played games that were clearly trying to be another looking at you eastward that's one thing i'll give the vast majority of monster collecting games (at least the ones i've played) are always trying to be their own thing

That's my favorite part of that game haha
it is a very memorable part so i can't fault you for it. part of me wants that ghost in more FF crossovers
 

Curious Villager

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i always felt yo-kai watch being compared to pokemon was unfair. cause it always felt like YW was trying to be it's own thing not a pokemon killer. and i've played games that were clearly trying to be another looking at you eastward that's one thing i'll give the vast majority of monster collecting games (at least the ones i've played) are always trying to be their own thing



it is a very memorable part so i can't fault you for it. part of me wants that ghost in more FF crossovers
Pokemon wasn't even its main inspiration according to Hino, but Doreamon, which after seeing more of the games and anime, I can see where he was coming from.
 

Guynamednelson

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I think the big issue is that a lot of platform fighters keep trying to beat Smash in the crossover aspect. You can't do that.
I'm not sure if you can really say NASB was trying to do that. I thought it was just trying to be a crossover between...the Nicktoons that Nick themselves and the game devs were okay with.
 

Wonder Smash

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I think the big issue is that a lot of platform fighters keep trying to beat Smash in the crossover aspect. You can't do that.

It's why Rivals of Aether was one of the few that succeeded. It didn't even try to pretend it was some big crossover event.
I'm not sure if you can really say NASB was trying to do that. I thought it was just trying to be a crossover between...the Nicktoons that Nick themselves and the game devs were okay with.
Yeah, that kind of mentality really needs to stop. It kind of holds the genre back and gives the game an unnecessary bad rep. Just because it's another crossover, doesn't mean they're trying to "beat" Smash. They're just simply inspired by Smash. Simple as that.
 
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chocolatejr9

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On the topic of Sony, which has found its success in big budget narrative games; call me crazy, but I think Sony should have been third party if that is the case. Sure, they are in the console market now, and they have had great success, but I don't think that even with this success, they are fit anymore to make consoles if they aren't willing to broaden their scope and try to appeal to more than just the people they appeal to now. Even their success can only last so long. It is my opinion, but I am starting to think of Sony as not "console material", anymore for that matter. I could be wrong, but yeah...
Well, IDK if I'd go THAT far (even as someone who admittedly doesn't like what Sony has become), though thanks to the stuff with the ActiBlizz deal, it HAS brought to light that they probably SHOULD try to focus more on their own IPs: they seem to have put all their eggs into the COD basket.

Which is kinda ironic when you remember that the guys buying ActiBlizz are ALSO a bit notorious for not focusing on their own IPs (albeit in a different sense), but that's besides the point...
 
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