osby
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2018
- Messages
- 23,667
I think there are a lot of weird cuts that feel weird when you look at the additions. Like, why Sonic has more characters than Kirby?
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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NonSpecificGuy
- Start date
Master Hero Sock-on-Rye
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2023
- Messages
- 791
I will give you credit for saying this. However, my reasoning for the character count was that some of them had overstayed their welcome, while others were long overdue. This is why I cut Captain Falcon out completely, replaced the Piranha Plant with a Goomba, and added two unique Sonic newcomers.
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
That first roster has some really interesting choices. Magalor over Bandana Dee, Tinkaton and Masked Royal as the new Pokemon reps... I don't know how likely those are, but I respect the boldness. The second roster is a lot more vanilla, which means I don't have a lot to say (and I also pop a blood vessel every time someone suggests Sans as the Toby Fox rep).
As for my prediction roster, I'm gonna repost mine. There are a few things I would tinker with but I mostly stand by it.
Overstayed their welcome?
Master Hero Sock-on-Rye
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2023
- Messages
- 791
Okay, I'll admit it. I wasn't thinking long-term implications with my roster. I was just playing Judgement Day with the overrepped and underrepped franchises.
osby
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2018
- Messages
- 23,667
I just think some of the new additions don't live up to the characters you feel like you had to remove.
Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, Lucas, Chrom, Palutena, and R.O.B. are all popular characters and Goomba, King Hippo, or Raven Beak don't quite feel like satisfactory consolation prizes.
I feel like that's the issue. A lot of fan rosters just try to balance numbers instead of looking at what individual characters bring.
As a result, you end up with characters that are cut for no reason and newcomers who are just there to fill a quota.
- Joined
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- Switch FC
- SW-0351-1523-9047
Assuming it's a limit of 76 or 77 characters...
RETURNING FIRST PARTY SERIES
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
All of these seem like obvious picks, or ones that objectively have to be in here.
5. Rosalina and Luma
6. Bowser Junior
7. Daisy (echo)
While I was never particularly attached to Rosalina or Daisy, they're all popular secondary characters and I can't justify removing them.
8. Captain Toad
It seems bizarre that Toad hasn't been playable in Smash yet. I wanted to include an RPG character, but the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi franchises seem to more or less be dead, and if the treatment of Final Fantasy is any indication, then realistically, Square would want to save as many characters as possible for DLC - this is a company that only included the barest possible minimum of FF content in Ultimate so that we could get a more normal-sized amount through a DLC character.
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
All of these seem like obvious picks, or ones that objectively have to be in here.
5. Rosalina and Luma
6. Bowser Junior
7. Daisy (echo)
While I was never particularly attached to Rosalina or Daisy, they're all popular secondary characters and I can't justify removing them.
8. Captain Toad
It seems bizarre that Toad hasn't been playable in Smash yet. I wanted to include an RPG character, but the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi franchises seem to more or less be dead, and if the treatment of Final Fantasy is any indication, then realistically, Square would want to save as many characters as possible for DLC - this is a company that only included the barest possible minimum of FF content in Ultimate so that we could get a more normal-sized amount through a DLC character.
9. Donkey Kong
10. Diddy Kong
11. King K. Rool
No reason not to bring all of them back.
12. Dixie Kong
I was a little surprised that she didn't make it into Smash 4 or Ultimate, honestly.
10. Diddy Kong
11. King K. Rool
No reason not to bring all of them back.
12. Dixie Kong
I was a little surprised that she didn't make it into Smash 4 or Ultimate, honestly.
13. Yoshi
No changes here. I question the need for him to have his own series (it feels like an artifact of the N64 days), but then again, I never played Yoshi's Island.
No changes here. I question the need for him to have his own series (it feels like an artifact of the N64 days), but then again, I never played Yoshi's Island.
14. Wario
Ideally, he'd be changed to make him more Wario Land themed, since those games were the reason why people wanted him in Smash to begin with.
Ideally, he'd be changed to make him more Wario Land themed, since those games were the reason why people wanted him in Smash to begin with.
15. Link
16. Zelda
17. Sheik
18. Ganondorf
The Triforce Trio and Sheik, who by all appearances isn't going anywhere. Unless I have room at the end, I'm not going to bring back Toon Link. (Young Link seems more than a little redundant in his current state)
19. Impa (Age of Calamity)
The abilities that she showed off in Age of Calamity seem like they'd make for a fun moveset. If this version can't be used due to legal shenanigans with Koei-Tecmo, then I'd go with the Skyward Sword version instead.
16. Zelda
17. Sheik
18. Ganondorf
The Triforce Trio and Sheik, who by all appearances isn't going anywhere. Unless I have room at the end, I'm not going to bring back Toon Link. (Young Link seems more than a little redundant in his current state)
19. Impa (Age of Calamity)
The abilities that she showed off in Age of Calamity seem like they'd make for a fun moveset. If this version can't be used due to legal shenanigans with Koei-Tecmo, then I'd go with the Skyward Sword version instead.
20. Samus
21. Ridley
These two seem obvious. Zero Suit Samus seems a little unnecessary - like they wanted to include a new Metroid character in Brawl, but they didn't have any ideas that weren't Ridley. I'm iffy on including Dark Samus; I might put it back if I have room at the end.
22. Raven Beak
I could easily see Raven Beak working in Smash based on the boss fight with him.
21. Ridley
These two seem obvious. Zero Suit Samus seems a little unnecessary - like they wanted to include a new Metroid character in Brawl, but they didn't have any ideas that weren't Ridley. I'm iffy on including Dark Samus; I might put it back if I have room at the end.
22. Raven Beak
I could easily see Raven Beak working in Smash based on the boss fight with him.
23. Kirby
24. Meta Knight
25. Dedede
The core trio of the series; it would be weird to cut any of them.
26. Bandanna Waddle Dee
The series' player 4 character, who's even been upgraded to the player 2 character in games like Kirby Fighters 2 or the Forgotten Land. Sakurai seems to prefer focusing on the Kirby games that he directed, at least when it comes to choices for characters, assist trophies, stages, and items, but he seems a little overdue.
24. Meta Knight
25. Dedede
The core trio of the series; it would be weird to cut any of them.
26. Bandanna Waddle Dee
The series' player 4 character, who's even been upgraded to the player 2 character in games like Kirby Fighters 2 or the Forgotten Land. Sakurai seems to prefer focusing on the Kirby games that he directed, at least when it comes to choices for characters, assist trophies, stages, and items, but he seems a little overdue.
27. Fox
28. Wolf
Cutting Falco was a tough choice, but I feel like I'm going to need the room further down the line.
28. Wolf
Cutting Falco was a tough choice, but I feel like I'm going to need the room further down the line.
29. Pikachu
30. Mewtwo
31. Charizard
32. Lucario
33. Greninja
34. Incineroar
Realistically, I don't think that Jigglypuff will be cut any time soon, given how easy it is to make her moveset, but I felt like having her, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pikachu, Charizard, and Mewtwo resulted in the Pokemon list being heavily weighted towards Gen. 1, so I thought it couldn't hurt for it to be trimmed down in that regard.
35. Koraidon/Miraidon (as an Alph/Olimar or Koopaling scenario)
Admittedly, I've only played Pokemon Violet, so I don't know how different the two are, but they seem functionally identical from what I've seen, and they're central to the story of the latest games. I am WAY behind on Pokemon, so maybe there are better choices from Gen. 9, but after playing through Pokemon Violet, that's what I'm going with.
30. Mewtwo
31. Charizard
32. Lucario
33. Greninja
34. Incineroar
Realistically, I don't think that Jigglypuff will be cut any time soon, given how easy it is to make her moveset, but I felt like having her, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pikachu, Charizard, and Mewtwo resulted in the Pokemon list being heavily weighted towards Gen. 1, so I thought it couldn't hurt for it to be trimmed down in that regard.
35. Koraidon/Miraidon (as an Alph/Olimar or Koopaling scenario)
Admittedly, I've only played Pokemon Violet, so I don't know how different the two are, but they seem functionally identical from what I've seen, and they're central to the story of the latest games. I am WAY behind on Pokemon, so maybe there are better choices from Gen. 9, but after playing through Pokemon Violet, that's what I'm going with.
36. Ness
37. Lucas
No reason to get rid of any of them. As much as I'd like to see a villain in here, like Beginnings!Giygas, Porky, or the Masked Man, I have a hard time justifying three Earthbound characters.
37. Lucas
No reason to get rid of any of them. As much as I'd like to see a villain in here, like Beginnings!Giygas, Porky, or the Masked Man, I have a hard time justifying three Earthbound characters.
38. Captain Falcon
FALCON PUNCH!
FALCON PUNCH!
39. Ice Climbers
Assuming there aren't any hardware issues standing in their way, I see no reason to get rid of them.
Assuming there aren't any hardware issues standing in their way, I see no reason to get rid of them.
40. Marth
41. Lucina
42. Ike
43. Robin
44. Byleth (female costume as the default)
Marth has to stay here, and I like having Lucina as a beginner-friendly option. Ike's consistently popular, Robin's got great gameplay variety and is from the game that saved the series, and while I find Byleth to be the blandest possible option from Three Houses, her inclusion does make sense in that it avoids making one story route seem more important than the others.
I could have included the main protagonist from Engage, but while I haven't played that game (I don't even know the protagonist's name), by my understanding, they summon the spirit of Marth and fight similarly to him, so including them seems pointless considering that we already have Marth and a Marth clone.
I cut Roy and Chrom because having four characters who have similar movesets to Marth seems excessive.
45. Lyn
An extremely popular pick - her being the protagonist of the first FE game to release overseas might have had something to do with it, but I figure a new FE character is basically inevitable, and if the newest protagonist doesn't have a distinctive playstyle, then I don't see why we shouldn't go back to an old favourite.
41. Lucina
42. Ike
43. Robin
44. Byleth (female costume as the default)
Marth has to stay here, and I like having Lucina as a beginner-friendly option. Ike's consistently popular, Robin's got great gameplay variety and is from the game that saved the series, and while I find Byleth to be the blandest possible option from Three Houses, her inclusion does make sense in that it avoids making one story route seem more important than the others.
I could have included the main protagonist from Engage, but while I haven't played that game (I don't even know the protagonist's name), by my understanding, they summon the spirit of Marth and fight similarly to him, so including them seems pointless considering that we already have Marth and a Marth clone.
I cut Roy and Chrom because having four characters who have similar movesets to Marth seems excessive.
45. Lyn
An extremely popular pick - her being the protagonist of the first FE game to release overseas might have had something to do with it, but I figure a new FE character is basically inevitable, and if the newest protagonist doesn't have a distinctive playstyle, then I don't see why we shouldn't go back to an old favourite.
46. Mr. Game & Watch
I don't see why he should be cut.
I don't see why he should be cut.
47. Pit (Dark Pit becomes an Alph-like alt)
48. Palutena
I get that Dark Pit is an easy inclusion, but I don't see the need to have him as his own separate character when he's basically identical to the original, to the point where they have alt costumes that are based on each other.
48. Palutena
I get that Dark Pit is an easy inclusion, but I don't see the need to have him as his own separate character when he's basically identical to the original, to the point where they have alt costumes that are based on each other.
49. Olimar (with Alph as an alt)
While I'd like to see Alph as an echo fighter, I don't know what would set Rock Pikmin apart from Purple Pikmin, so the only difference would be replacing White Pikmin with Flying Pikmin. I don't know enough about Pikmin 4 to justify a character from that.
While I'd like to see Alph as an echo fighter, I don't know what would set Rock Pikmin apart from Purple Pikmin, so the only difference would be replacing White Pikmin with Flying Pikmin. I don't know enough about Pikmin 4 to justify a character from that.
50. R.O.B.
A neat retro pick.
A neat retro pick.
51. Villager
52. Isabelle
I was tempted to cut Villager and just have Isabelle as the sole Animal Crossing character, butVillager is right behind me with an axe run save yourselves I just couldn't justify cutting Villager.
52. Isabelle
I was tempted to cut Villager and just have Isabelle as the sole Animal Crossing character, but
53. Little Mac
I was surprised to see him left out of one of the Source Gaming rosters; he feels like a character who basically needs to be in Smash Bros., given that it's a fighting game and he's a boxing character.
I was surprised to see him left out of one of the Source Gaming rosters; he feels like a character who basically needs to be in Smash Bros., given that it's a fighting game and he's a boxing character.
54. Shulk
55. Pyra and Mythra
While I haven't finished Xenoblade Chronicles 2, all of the Xenoblade characters make sense. I haven't played enough of Xenoblade 3 to know who should be included, and while I'd like to include Elma (I feel like Xenoblade X gets screwed over due to being stuck on the Wii U), I have a hard time justifying three (technically four) Xenoblade characters.
55. Pyra and Mythra
While I haven't finished Xenoblade Chronicles 2, all of the Xenoblade characters make sense. I haven't played enough of Xenoblade 3 to know who should be included, and while I'd like to include Elma (I feel like Xenoblade X gets screwed over due to being stuck on the Wii U), I have a hard time justifying three (technically four) Xenoblade characters.
56. Inkling
57. Octoling (echo fighter for Inkling)
Given how much Splatoon has exploded in popularity, an Octoling echo fighter seems like such a no-brainer that I'm surprised that it didn't happen in Ultimate's base game.
57. Octoling (echo fighter for Inkling)
Given how much Splatoon has exploded in popularity, an Octoling echo fighter seems like such a no-brainer that I'm surprised that it didn't happen in Ultimate's base game.
58. Min Min
I see no reason to cut Min Min; she seems like the best choice for an ARMS character in Smash.
I see no reason to cut Min Min; she seems like the best choice for an ARMS character in Smash.
RETURNING THIRD PARTY SERIES
59. Snake
60. Simon (with Richter as an Alph-like alt)
I'm assuming that it's possible to make Richter an alt; they were basically identical in Smash Ultimate to begin with.
60. Simon (with Richter as an Alph-like alt)
I'm assuming that it's possible to make Richter an alt; they were basically identical in Smash Ultimate to begin with.
61. Sonic
62. Tails (as a Sonic echo)
63. Bayonetta
64. Joker
I feel like the only way that Sega would stop putting characters in Smash would be if they shut down entirely. If Sakurai wasn't the director, I'd feel less confident about Joker.
62. Tails (as a Sonic echo)
63. Bayonetta
64. Joker
I feel like the only way that Sega would stop putting characters in Smash would be if they shut down entirely. If Sakurai wasn't the director, I'd feel less confident about Joker.
65. Mega Man
66. Ryu
67. Ken
No reason to cut any of them.
66. Ryu
67. Ken
No reason to cut any of them.
68. Pac-Man
I'm nearing the limit, so as much as I don't want to cut Tekken after Namco-Bandai only just got a second character in Smash, I feel like Kazuya is more expendable than Pac-Man.
I'm nearing the limit, so as much as I don't want to cut Tekken after Namco-Bandai only just got a second character in Smash, I feel like Kazuya is more expendable than Pac-Man.
69. Cloud
70. Hero
Sephiroth would either be cut or brought back as DLC.
70. Hero
Sephiroth would either be cut or brought back as DLC.
71. Terry Bogard
SNK seems open to their characters appearing in pretty much anything.
SNK seems open to their characters appearing in pretty much anything.
72. Banjo-Kazooie
73. Steve
Weirdly enough, Microsoft seems open to collaborating with Nintendo.
73. Steve
Weirdly enough, Microsoft seems open to collaborating with Nintendo.
NEW FIRST PARTY SERIES
74. Ring Fit Trainer (Ring Fit)
I haven't played Ring Fit, but while I don't like to cut an entire series, Ring Fit seems like a good update for/replacement of the Wii Fit series.
I haven't played Ring Fit, but while I don't like to cut an entire series, Ring Fit seems like a good update for/replacement of the Wii Fit series.
75. Andy (Advance Wars)
While I'm a little concerned that the remake might be sent out to die, Nintendo's using Advance Wars more than they have in years, if not decades. Plus, I could see there being an interesting mechanic with Andy buying units to summon them. I was torn between Andy and Isaac from Golden Sun, but Andy felt more realistic.
While I'm a little concerned that the remake might be sent out to die, Nintendo's using Advance Wars more than they have in years, if not decades. Plus, I could see there being an interesting mechanic with Andy buying units to summon them. I was torn between Andy and Isaac from Golden Sun, but Andy felt more realistic.
NEW THIRD PARTY SERIES
76. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
I'm honestly surprised that he isn't in Smash yet. They could draw from the NES side-scrollers, the modern action games, the Dead or Alive franchise... There are a ton of options for stages, moves, music, etc.
I'm honestly surprised that he isn't in Smash yet. They could draw from the NES side-scrollers, the modern action games, the Dead or Alive franchise... There are a ton of options for stages, moves, music, etc.
77. Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
Another character who feels overdue - I realize that his status will depend on whether or not the Microsoft buy-out goes through, but he seems like a crowd-pleasing pick for the next Smash game.
Another character who feels overdue - I realize that his status will depend on whether or not the Microsoft buy-out goes through, but he seems like a crowd-pleasing pick for the next Smash game.
I feel bad about cutting the Wii Fit and Duck Hunt series entirely, but I was running out of room. I couldn't find room to squeeze the Miis in either, but Nintendo's been de-emphasizing them anyway. Sure, the Mii costumes make for cheap/easy DLC, but I'm sure that Nintendo could find other ways to get smaller purchases in there. (maybe giving playable characters new costumes?)
I really wanted to include Dante or Doomguy in there, but they seemed better-suited for DLC. (same thing goes for the likes of 2B or Master Chief) Likewise, it would have been ideal if I could fit an indie character like Shovel Knight or Sans in there, but the third party characters that I picked seemed more important.
TL;DR:
-Doctor Mario
-Piranha Plant
-Young Link
-Toon Link
-Zero Suit Samus
-Dark Samus
-Falco
-Jigglypuff
-Pichu
-Squirtle
-Ivysaur
-Roy
-Chrom
-Corrin
-Dark Pit (demoted to alternate costume)
-Wii Fit Trainer
-Mii Brawler
-Mii Swordsfighter
-Mii Gunner
-Duck Hunt
-Sephiroth
-Richter Belmont (demoted to alternate costume)
-Kazuya
-Sora (as much of a shame as it would be to bring in the most-requested character only to cut him the next game, getting Disney to cooperate seems like a once-in-a-blue-moon kind of situation)
-Piranha Plant
-Young Link
-Toon Link
-Zero Suit Samus
-Dark Samus
-Falco
-Jigglypuff
-Pichu
-Squirtle
-Ivysaur
-Roy
-Chrom
-Corrin
-Dark Pit (demoted to alternate costume)
-Wii Fit Trainer
-Mii Brawler
-Mii Swordsfighter
-Mii Gunner
-Duck Hunt
-Sephiroth
-Richter Belmont (demoted to alternate costume)
-Kazuya
-Sora (as much of a shame as it would be to bring in the most-requested character only to cut him the next game, getting Disney to cooperate seems like a once-in-a-blue-moon kind of situation)
-Captain Toad (Mario)
-Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
-Impa (Zelda)
-Raven Beak (Metroid)
-Bandanna Waddle Dee (Kirby)
-Koraidon/Miraidon (Pokemon)
-Lyn (Fire Emblem)
-Octoling (Splatoon - Inkling echo)
-Tails (Sonic - Sonic echo)
-Ring Fit Trainer (Ring Fit)
-Andy (Advance Wars)
-Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
-Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
13 newcomers, with 10 of them being first party, 3 (Tails, Hayabusa, Crash) being third party, and two of them being clones; it feels realistic.
-Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
-Impa (Zelda)
-Raven Beak (Metroid)
-Bandanna Waddle Dee (Kirby)
-Koraidon/Miraidon (Pokemon)
-Lyn (Fire Emblem)
-Octoling (Splatoon - Inkling echo)
-Tails (Sonic - Sonic echo)
-Ring Fit Trainer (Ring Fit)
-Andy (Advance Wars)
-Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
-Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
13 newcomers, with 10 of them being first party, 3 (Tails, Hayabusa, Crash) being third party, and two of them being clones; it feels realistic.
Ideally, I wouldn't cut anyone, but I'm trying to fit it into 77 characters.
EDIT: I figure I'd also list a hypothetical DLC season for this roster, following Ultimate's trend of six characters per pass. Unlike Ultimate, some veterans would be DLC.
1. Sans (Undertale - seems like the sort of reveal that would break the Internet)
2. Kazuya Mishima (Tekken)
3. Isaac (Golden Sun)
4. Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear)
5. Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
6. Dante (Devil May Cry)
2. Kazuya Mishima (Tekken)
3. Isaac (Golden Sun)
4. Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear)
5. Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
6. Dante (Devil May Cry)
1. Dr. Eggman (Sonic)
2. Geno (Super Mario RPG)
3. Doomguy (DOOM)
4. 2B (Nier Automata)
5. Skull Kid (The Legend of Zelda)
6. Master Chief (Halo)
2. Geno (Super Mario RPG)
3. Doomguy (DOOM)
4. 2B (Nier Automata)
5. Skull Kid (The Legend of Zelda)
6. Master Chief (Halo)
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Mamboo07
Smash Hero
What a roster of mine would look like?
Well, here I go: (Bold are newcomers, not counting Echo Fighters)
First Party
Well, here I go: (Bold are newcomers, not counting Echo Fighters)
First Party
- Mario
- Luigi
- Peach (Toadsworth takes Toad's place as Neutral Special since Toad's now a fighter)
- Bowser
- Bowser Jr.
- Rosalina/Luma
- Waluigi (Assist to Fighter)
- Toad
- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong
- King K. Rool
- Dixie Kong
- Cranky Kong
- Link
- Zelda
- Ganondorf
- Young Link
- Toon Link
- Impa
- Ganon (Blue Pig)
- Samus
- Ridley
- Raven Beak
- Yoshi
- Poochy
- Kirby
- Meta Knight
- Dedede
- Bandana Dee
- Dark Matter
- Fox
- Falco
- Wolf
- Krystal
- Andross
- Pikachu
- Mewtwo
- Pokemon Trainer
- Greninja
- Incineroar
- Toxtricity (Gen 8)
- Meowscarada (Gen 9)
- Ness
- Lucas
- Porky
- Marth
- Ike
- Robin
- Byleth
- Alear
- Pit
- Palutena
- Hades
- Wario
- Shake King (From Shake It!)
- Olimar
- Louie
- Villager
- Isabelle
- Tom Nook
- Wii Fit Trainer
- Little Mac
- King Hippo
- Mii Brawler/Swordfighter/Gunner/Mage/Athlete (Mage is magic stuff and Athlete uses sports stuff)
- Shulk
- Pyra/Mythra
- Elma
- Inkling
- DJ Octavio
- Min-Min
- Helix
- Excitebiker (New Retro rep)
- Sonic
- Dr. Eggman
- Snake
- Raiden
- Mega Man
- Zero (Assist to Fighter)
- Ryu
- Chun-Li
- Cloud
- Sephiroth
- Bayonetta
- Father Balder
- Simon
- Alucard (Assist to Fighter)
- Joker
- Hero
- Slime
- Banjo-Kazooie
- Gruntilda
- Terry
- Mai (Covered up and fully clothed due to censorship)
- Kazuya
- King
- Sora
- Crash Bandicoot
- Lara Croft
- Space Invaders
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
For as much as we talk about characters, I think the way they handle stages in the next Smash might be even more interesting. In Melee and Brawl, the stagelist was almost completely comprised of new stages, with the handful of returning ones being treated as bonuses. In both version of 4, there was about a 50/50 split of returning and new stages, and in Ultimate the new stages were in the extreme minority (especially before DLC). Do we think they'll go back to the way it was before, or is this how it goes now?
well the focus on older stages was likely a red of the smaller dev time and focus on bringing everyone back. so it’ll depend on how the next time goes
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2014
- Messages
- 7,897
I'm not down with any cuts. Everyone is Here! Forever!
If I was forced to do cuts, I would literally cut every series down to one character(excepting echoes), and get as many series represented as possible.
Like, I made this Tight 30 roster back before Ultimate came out. And nowadays, I wouldn't even have Charizard on there and Luigi would be an echo.
If I was forced to do cuts, I would literally cut every series down to one character(excepting echoes), and get as many series represented as possible.
Like, I made this Tight 30 roster back before Ultimate came out. And nowadays, I wouldn't even have Charizard on there and Luigi would be an echo.
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Master Hero Sock-on-Rye
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2023
- Messages
- 791
I'm terribly sorry for taking the easy route on this. But on the bright side, cutting Captain Falcon and keeping Ganondorf means that the former's basic moveset technically remains intact. Your mileage may vary on this, however.
Dan Quixote
Smash Lord
I'd love some more new stages tbh. There are some real beautiful video game locations from the series represented in Smash.
Master Hero Sock-on-Rye
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2023
- Messages
- 791
I wouldn't go that far with the cuts. I'd still prefer to give more than one fighter to the really big franchises, like Mario and Pokemon. But you do have a good idea on where to take this.
Dan Quixote
Smash Lord
Yeah my thoughts exactly. As fun as some of them are, I don't need so many deep cut references if it means more gaming universes can be put in the spotlight. Like, I was just talking about stages a minute ago, and could you imagine if some of Mario's stage slots were given to other franchises?
Soy_Man
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2018
- Messages
- 162
Can we just list who you're cutting and who you're adding, so I don't have to sift through your list to look for the changes.
Anyways here's who I would cut:
-Dr Mario
-Young Link
-Pichu
-Corrin
-Lucario
-Min Min
-Lucina (The other echo fighters you can take or leave, because they don't really take up much development time)
-Pyra/Mythra
-Kazuya
-Sora
-Little Mac
-Piranha Plant
And here's who I would add:
-A grass-type Pokemon
-Mio
-A Fire Emblem character
-Paper Mario
-Daruk
-Black Shadow
-Raven Beak
-Shadow
-Zero
-Chun Li
-Alucard
-Phoenix Wright
-Monster Hunter
-Demi Fiend
-Master Chief
-Sol Badguy
Any questions?
Anyways here's who I would cut:
-Dr Mario
-Young Link
-Pichu
-Corrin
-Lucario
-Min Min
-Lucina (The other echo fighters you can take or leave, because they don't really take up much development time)
-Pyra/Mythra
-Kazuya
-Sora
-Little Mac
-Piranha Plant
And here's who I would add:
-A grass-type Pokemon
-Mio
-A Fire Emblem character
-Paper Mario
-Daruk
-Black Shadow
-Raven Beak
-Shadow
-Zero
-Chun Li
-Alucard
-Phoenix Wright
-Monster Hunter
-Demi Fiend
-Master Chief
-Sol Badguy
Any questions?
Arcanir
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Ideally we'd have more new stages. While it was a necessary sacrifice for what they wanted to do with Ultimate, it was still disappointing to not have many new stages, particularly since they had options like Sylvalum from XCX, Altar of the Sunne/Moone from SM, or even reusing assets from Rathalos' boss stage for Ancestral Steppe. It's especially the case now that we have multiple new games out across the Switch that could provide many fun new stages from both pre-existing or potential new franchises (like Area Zero from Pokemon SV) on top of the older favorites (like Elysia from Prime 3).
toonito
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RE: Roster
Who i'd Cut:
Jigglypuff
Piranha Plant
Dr. Mario
Young Link
Lucina
Ike
Pichu
Lucas
Roy
Daisy
Chrom
Isabelle
Ken
Richter
Dark Samus
Who I'd Add:
Meowth
Waluigi
Toad
Impa (AOC)
Lyn
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
Sceptile
Bandana Waddle Dee
Sol Badguy
Paper Mario
Zero
Chun-Li
Crash Bandicoot
Dante
Bomberman
Who i'd Cut:
Jigglypuff
Piranha Plant
Dr. Mario
Young Link
Lucina
Ike
Pichu
Lucas
Roy
Daisy
Chrom
Isabelle
Ken
Richter
Dark Samus
Who I'd Add:
Meowth
Waluigi
Toad
Impa (AOC)
Lyn
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
Sceptile
Bandana Waddle Dee
Sol Badguy
Paper Mario
Zero
Chun-Li
Crash Bandicoot
Dante
Bomberman
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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it is really stupid that they had the assets for a MOnster hunter stage and did nothing with it.
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Honestly, Source Gaming's rosters scream wish fulfillment to me. I think the worst offender was the last time they made a roster. Adding five western platforming characters and literally doing a coin flip to decide if Hero or Sora was in the roster made my eyes roll. Not that there is anything wrong with that. You have the freedom to dream about what shape the next Smash might take. But if I am being objective, these seem as realistic of rosters as those 70+ character rosters made for Smash 4 in 2009. There are so many weird choices, like cutting Pokemon Trainer when Charizard is Pokemon's golden boy, adding weird echos like Masked Royal or Noah, making third party cuts that scream purity Nintendo elitist reasons while adding ****ing Master Chief. The second roster isn't much better, it screams trying to fit a square peg into a round hole abusing addition by subtraction. No, cutting Jr. will not give you two new mario characters. No, cutting Robin and Corrin wont give you one new Fire Emblem character of Lyn.
It's fine to have your hopes and dreams for a roster, but if you have unrealistic expectations like this you will inevitably be disappointed.
Also echoing what
osby
said about some cuts in fan rosters.I think the next game will borrow a lot of Ultimate's legwork for stages since they are right there and will be easier to implement atleast than characters, so I am expecting more old stages returning.
While I am expecting newer stages to be the minority, I think we will get far more new stages than we did in Ultimate. I have said it once, I will say it again: the Wii U and late 3DS era were not exactly goldmines for new content to pull from. I think with the Switch having a bountiful library to pull from, we are more likely to get a bunch of new stages. Here's just a shortlist of stage ideas you could do from games that released on the Switch alone.
- Lake Lapcat
- Fossil Falls
- The Last Resort
- Horror Land
- Frozen Fruits
- Big Paper Peak
- Buggy Game (WarioWare Get It Together)
- Tal Tal Mountain
- A TotK stage
- Itorash
- Wild Area
- Temple of Sinnoh
- Area Zero
- Lor Starcutter
- Alive! Mall
- Reef Resort
- Somniel
- A Cave from Pikmin 4
- Harv's Island
- New Horizons Island
- Great Sword's Hilt
- Splatsville
- Octo Canyon
- Murasame Castle
- Venus Lighthouse
- Zone 36
- Dragaux Stadium
- Rhythm Heaven Remix
LiveStudioAudience
Smash Master
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Really the stage just selections just need to go deeper. Even the era of Smash 4, there were more interesting choices if they'd gone past the constant level 1 focus. There's no reason that series with as varied locations as Kirby and DKC shouldn't have better levels, let alone stuff like Sonic. Its nice that the Switch library has given us more to pull from, but there were options even 10 years ago that simply weren't chosen and it was to Smash's detriment.
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RodNutTakin
Smash Ace
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We sharing rosters?
Good thing I have this one lying around.
Good thing I have this one lying around.
CommanderZaktan
Smash Ace
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What program or site did they use for putting the fighters? It's not the roster maker someone made here
Speed Weed
Smash Master
okay so I have some issues with this roster but the addition of Tako from Parodius makes it the single most based roster to have ever been shared in this entire threadWe sharing rosters?
Good thing I have this one lying around.
NintenZ
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Made another 18 newcomers with eight Echo fighters thrown in too
Again mix of expectations and wants
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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I like how we all think Jonesy makes perfect sense to be in smash.
Quillion
Smash Hero
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I just know it's just another mess of reference-prioritizing garbage rather than something coherent and balanced about references.
Master Hero Sock-on-Rye
Smash Ace
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In that case, how would you remake Sonic's moveset to be balance-friendly? No hard feelings, but I read this with a bit of a sneer in your words.
Quillion
Smash Hero
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Of course I have a sneer about it. All these "moveset revamps" we see everywhere (on YouTube and off) are made by a bunch of mental twelve-year-olds who see Mega Man's moveset and think that it's the pinnacle of moveset design and every character should be like him. In reality, it only really works for fighting game characters at most. I say that as someone who once thought that kind of revamp was a good idea.
All of that said, I could dig changing two moves on Sonic. Forward Air to that meteor kick that everyone wants, Side-B to Boost.
That's all the 64/Melee/Brawl characters should get tbh: 1-3 moves changed per appearance. Maybe conceding 5-6 moves changed for Ganondorf though (only because Canondorfs want it so much).
Arcanir
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I have to be honest, you're being completely condescending. Just because you don't like the idea of moveset revamps doesn't mean that all of them are made by 'mental 12 year olds', and it's dismissive of the people who do actually make an attempt to try and dive into what was intended for the character's vision and bring it to life. If you're going to offer a criticism for this type of content, then give proper criticism, generic insults don't make you look any better than the people you're complaining about.
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Ah, so we have the answer to your question, Master.
He wouldn't.
Master Hero Sock-on-Rye
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That's what I was afraid of. I was hoping he would be credible in his issue with moveset reworks, and back up his opinion with a legit Sonic overhaul.
That's right. My question was not out of malice, but of unwavering kindness. That was all.
gooigi's first name is hayabusa?
well then he shouldn't get in. sense is not what smash is about
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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It's the truth nobody wants to hear...
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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My only complaint with Jonesy is that I personally find him kind of boring aesthetically. If he has a fun and creative moveset then I’d welcome him like anyone else. Fortnite rivals Smash in terms of huge crossover appeal so it would be cool in a way to see one of their characters cross over into another game instead of the reverse as usual.
On another note, I really don’t understand the resentment of people wanting characters to play more like they do in their home series in Smash. I personally really enjoy characters that feel like they just jumped out of their own game into Smash to the extent that it’s possible. I don’t think a character bringing over a lot of canon attacks means they have to be unbalanced as a result. Ideally, they would balance the characters as they would anyone else and buff or nerf certain aspects of the character as needed. I think there’s plenty of room for both simple and more complex fighters in Smash. It’s all dependent on what style suits the particular character better in my opinion.
On another note, I really don’t understand the resentment of people wanting characters to play more like they do in their home series in Smash. I personally really enjoy characters that feel like they just jumped out of their own game into Smash to the extent that it’s possible. I don’t think a character bringing over a lot of canon attacks means they have to be unbalanced as a result. Ideally, they would balance the characters as they would anyone else and buff or nerf certain aspects of the character as needed. I think there’s plenty of room for both simple and more complex fighters in Smash. It’s all dependent on what style suits the particular character better in my opinion.
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Gengar84
Smash Hero
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Don’t know who Ogrepon is but I’d be hyped for Ogremon. Not sure if that was a typo.
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Some just don't want it changed up to the point they no longer are the character introduced in Smash.
Which is fine and all. What isn't fine is when it gets into flame wars, etc. :/
it wasn’t. Also I think ogremon debuted in the anime