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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Lenidem

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
1,256
Honestly if I had to list 10 Nintendo characters I want in smash majority of them would seem obscure and don’t have new game to promote
Let me try.

1. Waluigi
2. (Captain) Toad
3. Professor E. Gadd
4. Skull Kid
5. Tingle
6. Tetra
7. Dixie Kong
8. Cranky Kong
9. Isaac
10. Krystal

Granted, several of them are competing against each other, and some have a few problems like a lack of popularity or of relevancy. But can we really say that they are "obscure"?
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,989
I'm starting to wish Smash was still Sakurai's craftsman's project rather than being as policed by Nintendo as it seemingly is now.

To be sure, 64, Melee, and even Brawl (to some extent) gave us stubbornly lingering oddities like Falcondorf and Dr. Mario being in just because of Fever, but we got the Ice Climbers despite that being a one-shot IP, Marth and Roy long before FE came up with Awakening-and-beyond, and Mr. Game and Watch from before the NES. Even the "oddities" Falcondorf and Doc had a great "pleasant surprise" factor to them.

Nowadays, the upper limit of "obscure character" is Duck Hunt, and they already had a lot of notoriety for being bundled with SMB1 back in the day and for memes about the dog.
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
4,446
As I've noted before, its a pity we don't have a more modest Smash Bros spin-off that focused on the more off-beat Nintendo characters and franchises. Put all the notions of certain notoriety aside, go nuts with the experimental modes, and just be unabashedly a celebration of the weird and forgotten, complete with Foreman Spike as a prominent character.
 
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Geno Boost

Smash Master
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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Let me try.

1. Waluigi
2. (Captain) Toad
3. Professor E. Gadd
4. Skull Kid
5. Tingle
6. Tetra
7. Dixie Kong
8. Cranky Kong
9. Isaac
10. Krystal

Granted, several of them are competing against each other, and some have a few problems like a lack of popularity or of relevancy. But can we really say that they are "obscure"?
mine would be:
1. Isaac
2. Ninten
3. Grovyle (PMD)
4. Sukapon
5. Harry (Teleroboxer)
6. Skull Kid
7. Hakkun
8. Daroach
9. Black Shadow
10. Captain Syrup

sadly only Grovyle, Skull Kid and Daroach are still present in their franchise
 

Stratos

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
1,037
As you know Banjo, Kazooie and Steve came as new DLC characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, this proves to us that any video game character whether from a Japanese video game company or not, can come to the Super Smash Bros. series. as a newcomer, though I didn't have to write that.
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,989
As I've noted before, its a pity we don't have a more modest Smash Bros spin-off that focused on the more off-beat Nintendo characters and franchises. Put all the notions of certain notoriety aside, go nuts with the experimental modes, and just be unabashedly a celebration of the weird and forgotten, complete with Foreman Spike as a prominent character.
Considering even the Mario spinoffs feel so scrawny nowadays, I'm not sure how that will work out.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
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Dec 5, 2018
Messages
10,823
As you know Banjo, Kazooie and Steve came as new DLC characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, this proves to us that any video game character whether from a Japanese video game company or not, can come to the Super Smash Bros. series. as a newcomer, though I didn't have to write that.
The only real rule here is that to be playable you have to have a game in English.

Roy was put in before this was a thing and i'm pretty sure Lucas was put due to an oopsy boingo. But every other character has had releases outside of Japan.
 

Curious Villager

Puzzles...
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how would people feel about a fighter from ni no kuni?
I'd put Oliver in the top three as far as Level-5 characters for Smash go, considering Sakurai's fondness of JRPG characters,
I could see him be included at some point down the road if Level-5 where to ever finally start getting content in Smash...
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
8,415
Honestly if I had to list 10 Nintendo characters I want in smash
1. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
2. King Hippo [Punch-Out]
Uhhhhh...

3. Ninten [Ness echo]
4. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon echo]
5. Impa [Sheik echo]
6. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight echo]
7. Black Knight [Ike echo]
8. Charizard [Pokemon Trainer echo]
9. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong echo]
10. Octolings [Inklings echo]
 

Hadokeyblade

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Is it wrong that i really want them to do what they did with Ganondorf and make Blaziken a Captain Falcon echo?

Like, the moveset is perfect for it. with moves like Blaze kick, Fire Punch, sky uppercut. Th most work required would be a final smash, which would undoudably be Mega evolution, it'll never happen but man, i think it could work just fine.
 

Megadoomer

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There was a problem fetching the tweet
For me:
  • Dr. Eggman
  • Bandana Waddle Dee
  • Ring Fit Trainee
  • Raven Beak
  • Rayman
  • Geno (Super Mario RPG)
  • Impa (Zelda - specifically the Age of Calamity version)
  • Dante (from the Devil May Cry series)
  • Doomguy (DOOM)
  • Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
It was a tough call for the fifth spot, though admittedly, Geno, Dante, and Doomguy were 100% bias picks on my end. (though it did seem weird to me that the only newcomer that Capcom got in this game was a single clone character - nothing against Ken, but I figured they'd get something for DLC, whether it was Dante, Phoenix Wright, Morrigan, Amaterasu, a Monster Hunter, etc.)
 

fogbadge

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I'd put Oliver in the top three as far as Level-5 characters for Smash go, considering Sakurai's fondness of JRPG characters,
I could see him be included at some point down the road if Level-5 where to ever finally start getting content in Smash...
id take it
 

Troykv

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
3,990
Shulk in S-tier is surprising to me.
Also Samus/Dark Samus in A-tier is based.
Oh right, I just realized Shulk is in S-Tier, I wonder if it has something to do with his infinite potential or something like that. I don't know how Shulk has performed in tournaments personally.
 

PeridotGX

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1. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
2. King Hippo [Punch-Out]
Uhhhhh...

3. Ninten [Ness echo]
4. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon echo]
5. Impa [Sheik echo]
6. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight echo]
7. Black Knight [Ike echo]
8. Charizard [Pokemon Trainer echo]
9. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong echo]
10. Octolings [Inklings echo]
Darthender when the character was created after the fall of the USSR
1677356133136.png
 

SPEN18

Smash Champion
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Nov 1, 2018
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MI, USA
Is it wrong that i really want them to do what they did with Ganondorf and make Blaziken a Captain Falcon echo?
I also think Blaziken could work really well as a CF clone. I usually wouldn't advocate for something like that but as you say it fits really well in this case.
 

Ivander

Smash Legend
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Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,978
Is it wrong that i really want them to do what they did with Ganondorf and make Blaziken a Captain Falcon echo?
While I think Captain Falcon would be a great base for Blaziken, including Specials, I sort of wish Blaziken would take from N64 C.Falcon, where Blaziken's Forward Smash is N64 C.Falcon's Smash Kick attack, his Down-Smash would be the spinning leg sweep with an additional Fire Spin-like effect, his regular Up-Attack could be C.Falcon's old Elbow smash, etc. I think bringing some of the original attacks from the first Smash Bros. on newer characters/potential Echo Fighters would be cool to see.
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
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Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,989
While I think Captain Falcon would be a great base for Blaziken, including Specials, I sort of wish Blaziken would take from N64 C.Falcon, where Blaziken's Forward Smash is N64 C.Falcon's Smash Kick attack, his Down-Smash would be the spinning leg sweep with an additional Fire Spin-like effect, his regular Up-Attack could be C.Falcon's old Elbow smash, etc. I think bringing some of the original attacks from the first Smash Bros. on newer characters/potential Echo Fighters would be cool to see.
Don't forget some from Melee. I'd prefer to see Bowser reverted to the monster he was back then (and give the Smash 4 anims to Dry Bowser), but maybe they can make something else work with them.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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seriously tho if solo Zard came back would his FS be

Mega X
Mega Y
GMax

or something else?
I think they'd go with Mega Charizard X again. Not only have they already done it in the past, but GMax might be a little hard to make.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
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Dec 5, 2018
Messages
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I think they'd go with Mega Charizard X again. Not only have they already done it in the past, but GMax might be a little hard to make.
Also Gamefreak seemingly regrets the Max forms.

They arent in the data of current Pokemon while the Mega's still have remnants of their data in games, implying they still think about Megas but just push the Max forms to the side.
 

PeridotGX

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Also Gamefreak seemingly regrets the Max forms.

They arent in the data of current Pokemon while the Mega's still have remnants of their data in games, implying they still think about Megas but just push the Max forms to the side.
To be fair, the presence of Gigantamax inherently requires dynamax, which is a big can of worms. Bringing back megas is substantially less effort. I wouldn't be surprised that, if and when they reintroduce Mega Evolution, they retcon most Gigantamaxes into Megas to spare the design without needing to bring back the most controversial mechanic in the series.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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Honestly if I had to list 10 Nintendo characters I want in smash majority of them would seem obscure and don’t have new game to promote
It's interesting, first party characters still have a wealth of options to offer in terms of fairly well known characters that are relevant like Waluigi, Toad, Bandana Waddle Dee, Ravenbeak and Dixie Kong for example.

We still have relevant new IPs with breakouts like Astral Chain and RIng Fit Adventures that are on the card to possibly receive fighters.

Even the less relevant Nintendo IP with characters like Isaac from Golden Sun and someone from Rhythm Heaven for example still have merit alone with their very dedicated fanbases and having games that sold fairly well at the peak of their series even sometimes better or on par with IPs that received Smash fighters already.

But yeah niche fighters I'm totally onboard for still, IPs like Dillons Rolling Western and Chibi-Robo despite their less popular status can still offer a lot of potential for fun fighters.
 
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Perkilator

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I just finished my moveset of Estelle Bright from Trails in the Sky.

The main gimmick of this moveset is her Craft Charge. Each special move has a charge that can be stored for later by holding B, but only one special move can be charged at a time. If you use a special move other than the one that’s charged (which is indicated by what color the orb on the HUD is), you use the normal version of that special move. Pressing Shield before the full charge resets the charging process.

Craft Colors:
  • Red = Neutral Special
  • Blue = Side Special
  • Yellow = Up Special
  • Green = Down Special
In addition, Estelle’s Bo Rod has different levels of power depending on whether she uses a poke attack or a swing attack, kinda like Sephiroth.
Intro: Estelle jumps from the sky and twirls her Bo Rod.

Stance/Idle 1: Estelle’s battle stance from the Trails games.
Idle 2: Estelle twirls her Bo Rod once.
Idle 3: Estelle stretches her arms while holding her Bo Rod.

Notable Palette Swaps:
  1. SC design (default)
  2. FC design (red)
  3. Joshua (black)
  4. Scherezard (purple)
  5. Olivier (white/yellow)
  6. Kloe (blue)
  7. Loewe (grey)
  8. Adol Christin (green)
Walk: Estelle cheerfully walks forward.
Dash: Estelle runs with her Bo Rod in both hands.
Damage: Her damage animation from the Sky trilogy.
Jump: Estelle pushes her Bo Rod on the ground for her first jump, then twirls around for the second jump.
Crouch: Estelle crouches with her Bo Rod in one hand.

Normal Attacks
Jab: Pummel; Estelle constantly pummels the enemy with her Bo Rod (1-2% each hit, small knockback), finishing with a horizontal swing (5%, small knockback)
Forward+A: Estelle spins her Bo Rod around (8%, small knockback)
Down+A: Estelle pokes the ground with her Bo Rod, tripping the opponent (7%, small knockback)
Up+A: Estelle pokes her Bo Rod above herself (11%, OK knockback)

Aerial Attacks
Air+A: Estelle twirls her Bo Rod in front of herself (12%, OK knockback)
Air Forward+A: Estelle swings her Bo Rod forward (13% with a meteor effect, OK knockback)
Air Back + A: Estelle pokes the opponent behind her (10%, small knockback)
Air Up+A: Estelle swats above herself with her Bo Rod (13%, OK knockback)
Air Down+A: Estelle swats below herself with her Bo Rod (13%, OK knockback)

Dash Attack: Estelle does a vaulting jump and swings her Bo Rod downwards (13%, OK knockback)
Edge Attack: Estelle pokes along the ground (8%, small knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Estelle sweeps around herself (7%, small knockback)

Smash Attacks
Forward+A: Estelle plants her Bo Rod into the ground and holds onto it while performing a horizontal kick (19%, OK knockback)
Up+A: Estelle twirls her Bo Rod above herself (18%, medium knockback)
Down+A: Estelle pokes her Bo Rod on both sides downward (15% each hit, OK knockback)

Grab Game
Grab: Estelle grabs the opponent by the collar
Pummel: Estelle bonks the enemy with her Bo Rod (2%)
Forwards+Throw: Estelle shoves the opponent with her rear end (7%, small knockback)
Down+Throw: Estelle catches the opponent with her Bo Rod and tosses them to the ground (9%, small knockback)
Back+Throw: Estelle runs behind the opponent and bats them away (9%, OK knockback)
Up+Throw: Estelle kicks the opponent into the air (6%, small knockback)

Special Moves
B : Comet
; Estelle charges a ballistic wave of energy that can be aimed using the control stick.
  • The normal version fires a spread shot in a somewhat small radius (14%, OK knockback)
  • The charged version fires an actual comet that goes through multiple opponents (22%, medium knockback)
B + Forwards : Barrage; Estelle performs a somersault forward, then beats the enemy with her Bo Rod.
  • The normal version sees Estelle somersaulting, and then dealing a single hit (13%, OK knockback)
  • The charged version sees Estelle spinning her body while she’s horizontally tilted and hitting opponents multiple times (21%, medium knockback). You can tilt the control stick to influence which direction Estelle goes in while using this attack.
B + Up : Hard Break; Estelle leaps into the air and falls down, using her Bo Rod to attack opponents from above.
  • The normal version has Estelle jump up and use her Bo Rod as a pogo stick, bouncing off either the ground or an opponent (14% with a footstool effect, OK knockback)
  • The charged version has Estelle jump higher (at the cost of less horizontal distance) and deliver a strike that breaks an opponent’s shield, at the cost of not being able to pogo off of anything (23% with a meteor effect, medium knockback)
  • Both versions of the attack can be canceled by tilting up on the control stick after you’ve jumped into the air
B + Down : Hurricane; Estelle twirls her Bo Rod in front of herself and blows away enemies around her.
  • The normal version is a brief gust of wind that pushes opponents a moderate distance
  • The chargerged version is a fierce wind that blows opponents further away, but just as quickly fades out
Final Smash: Wheel of Time; Estelle spins towards the opponent (20%). The first opponent hit is taken into a cutscene where Estelle runs around in a vortex as orange lightning rains down from the sky (45%, devastating knockback).

Taunts
Up: “Come on, we can do this!” Estelle rolls her arm backward twice to boost her teammates’ morale.
Side: “Hey! Pay attention!” Estelle reaches her hand forward.
Down: Estelle makes a face by pulling her eyelid and sticking out her tongue while twirling her Bo Rod.

Winposes
1: “Piece of cake!” Estelle twirls her Bo Rod and gives a peace sign.
2: Estelle and Joshua do a high five before standing back to back with each other.
3: Estelle twirls her Bo Rod before giving a fist bump into the air.

Applause: Estelle respectfully claps for the winner.
Icon: The emblem of the Bracer Guild
Boxing Ring Title: The Extraordinary Bracer
Star K.O.: “I’m sorryyyyyy…!”
Victory Music: Victory! (Trails in the Sky)
Kirby Hat: Estelle’s hair
 
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Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
10,823
It's interesting, first party characters still have a wealth of options to offer in terms of fairly well known characters that are relevant like Waluigi, Toad, Bandana Waddle Dee, Ravenbeak and Dixie Kong for example.

We still have relevant new IPs with breakouts like Astral Chain and RIng Fit Adventures that are on the card to possibly receive fighters.

Even the less relevant Nintendo IP with characters like Isaac from Golden Sun and someone from Rhythm Heaven for example still have merit alone with their very dedicated fanbases and having games that sold fairly well at the peak of their series even sometimes better or on par with IPs that received Smash fighters already.

But yeah niche fighters I'm totally onboard for still, IPs like Dillons Rolling Western and Chibi-Robo despite their less popular status can still offer a lot of potential for fun fighters.
As a Chibi robo fan i can assure you Nintendo does not give a **** about Chibi robo and he will never be playable in smash.

Ive accepted this reality.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
8,415
that can simply just be Mega Charizard on his own
Mega X is solo-Charizard's Final Smash though.

Also Gamefreak seemingly regrets the Max forms.

They arent in the data of current Pokemon while the Mega's still have remnants of their data in games, implying they still think about Megas but just push the Max forms to the side.
The Max forms just aren't as cool as Megas.

That said, I prefer the way Maxes were implemented. Because at least I can collect Gigantamax forms in my living Pokedex, because Gigantamax is tied to the Pokemon.

Mega Evolutions are tied to items, which you can't store with your Pokemon in Home. So it's impossible to maintain a Megas collection between games.
 
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Arcanir

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I feel the bigger issue with Max forms is that they were tied to Dynamax. In terms of design I don't think they're any worse than Megas, and in some ways I'd argue they're more consistent, but Dynamax was not really that popular of a feature so Max forms were brought down with it. It doesn't help that of the gimmicks it stood out the least of the four, even Terastallization seems to have made more waves with the fans.
 

Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Mega X is solo-Charizard's Final Smash though.

The Max forms just aren't as cool as Megas.

That said, I prefer the way Maxes were implemented. Because at least I can collect Gigantamax forms in my living Pokedex, because Gigantamax is tied to the Pokemon.

Mega Evolutions are tied to items, which you can't store with your Pokemon in Home. So it's impossible to maintain a Megas collection between games.
Mega Charizard can use Blast Burn as a final smash which is the strongest Fire type attack

i do remember mega charizard being hyped so much in the past i do think it would be great to play as him instead of just regular charizard as an echo
 
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Perkilator

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The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
Source Gaming just put out another video about their hyopthetical Smash roster and hooo boy, we got a lot of unpacking to do.
  1. Mario
  2. Luigi
  3. Peach
  4. Daisy
  5. Rosalina & Luma
  6. Bowser
  7. Bowser Jr.
  8. Yoshi
  9. Wario
  10. Waluigi
  11. Donkey Kong
  12. Diddy Kong
  13. Dixie Kong
  14. King K. Rool
  15. Link
  16. Zelda
  17. Ganondorf
  18. Sheik
  19. Impa
  20. Samus
  21. Dark Samus
  22. Ridley
  23. Raven Beak
  24. Pit
  25. Dark Pit
  26. Palutena
  27. Takamaru
  28. Mr. Game & Watch
  29. Marth
  30. Lucina
  31. Ike
  32. Robin
  33. Byleth
  34. Kirby
  35. King Dedede
  36. Meta Knight
  37. Magolor
  38. Fox
  39. Wolf
  40. R.O.B.
  41. Duck Hunt
  42. Ice Climbers
  43. Pikachu
  44. Mewtwo
  45. Lucario
  46. Greninja
  47. INcineroar
  48. Masked Royal
  49. Tinkaton
  50. Shulk
  51. Noah & Mio
  52. Inkling
  53. Octoling
  54. Ness
  55. Captain Falcon
  56. Little Mac
  57. Villager
  58. Olimar
  59. Conductor
  60. Min Min
  61. Officer Howard
  62. Ring Fit Trainee
  63. PAC-MAN
  64. Sonic
  65. Shadow
  66. Hero
  67. Simon
  68. Richter
  69. Mega Man
  70. Ryu
  71. Ken
  72. Terry
  73. Crash
  74. Banjo & Kazooie
  75. Master Chief
  76. Steve
  77. Mii Fighters
  1. Mario
  2. Luigi
  3. Toad
  4. Peach
  5. Daisy
  6. Rosalina & Luma
  7. Yoshi
  8. Bowser
  9. Wario
  10. Waluigi
  11. Mr. Game & Watch
  12. R.O.B.
  13. Captain Falcon
  14. Donkey Kong
  15. Diddy Kong
  16. King K. Rool
  17. Link
  18. Zelda
  19. Sheik
  20. Ganondorf
  21. Takamaru
  22. Samus
  23. Dark Samus
  24. Ridley
  25. Pit
  26. Dark Pit
  27. Kirby
  28. King Dedede
  29. Meta Knight
  30. Bandana Waddle Dee
  31. Pikachu
  32. Mewtwo
  33. Pokémon Trainer
  34. Lucario
  35. Greninja
  36. Meowscarda
  37. Ness
  38. Villager
  39. Isabelle
  40. Marth
  41. Lucina
  42. Roy
  43. Chrom
  44. Lyn
  45. Ike
  46. Byleth
  47. Fox
  48. Falco
  49. Olimar
  50. Inkling
  51. Octoling
  52. Ring Fit Trainee
  53. Shulk
  54. Pyra & Mythra
  55. Snake
  56. Sonic
  57. Shadow
  58. Mega Man
  59. Proto Man
  60. PAC-MAN
  61. Ryu
  62. Ken
  63. Cloud
  64. Bayonetta
  65. Jeanne
  66. Simon
  67. Richter
  68. Joker
  69. Hero
  70. Banjo & Kazooie
  71. Terry
  72. Steve
  73. Sora
  74. Monster Hunter
  75. Sans
  76. Mii Fighters
My biggest two issues with these rosters:
  1. Many of the characters are the same ones fans already talk about (which is a shame, because some choices I can totally get behind)
  2. The 3rd party series with more than one character just stick to having Echo Fighters as the second character despite Sephiroth happening
Using these rosters as a basis, what would your own look like? They don't have to be realistic in any way.
 
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I think my own roster would look like this:
  1. Mario
  2. Luigi
  3. Peach
  4. Bowser
  5. Rosalina and Luma
  6. Goomba
  7. Donkey Kong
  8. King K. Rool
  9. Link
  10. Zelda
  11. Ganondorf
  12. Samus
  13. Ridley
  14. Raven Beak
  15. Yoshi
  16. Kirby
  17. King Dedede
  18. Fox
  19. Pikachu
  20. Mewtwo
  21. Charizard
  22. Lucario
  23. Greninja
  24. Incineroar
  25. Greavard
  26. Ness
  27. Marth
  28. Ike
  29. Robin
  30. Corrin
  31. Byleth
  32. Alear (His gimmick would be based on Shulk and Joker, which is how the likes of Roy and Lucina can still get in.)
  33. Pit
  34. Wario
  35. Olimar
  36. Villager
  37. Isabelle
  38. Tom Nook
  39. Wii Fit Trainer
  40. Little Mac
  41. King Hippo
  42. Mii Brawler
  43. Mii Swordfighter
  44. Mii Gunner
  45. Shulk
  46. Pyra
  47. Mythra
  48. Elma
  49. Duck Hunt (Because I wanted at least one retro character.)
  50. Inkling
  51. Min Min
  52. Karate Joe (Rhythm Heaven)
  53. Isaac (Golden Sun)
  54. Sonic
  55. Tails
  56. Dr. Eggman
  57. Mega Man
  58. Zero
  59. Pac-Man
  60. Ryu
  61. Ken
  62. Cloud
  63. Sephiroth
  64. Bayonetta
  65. Simon Belmont
  66. Joker
  67. Hero
  68. Banjo and Kazooie
  69. Terry Bogard
  70. Marco Rossi
  71. Steve / Alex
  72. Kazuya
  73. Heihachi
  74. Sora
  75. Q*Bert
Trimmed some fat here, added some first-party characters there, and even snuck in a Sony-owned character. And yes, Q*Bert is owned by Nintendo's gaming archrival.

Give me your thoughts, if you have any to spare.
 
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