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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

NintenZ

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I think people are overestimate Pauline importance. I mean, sure she made a comeback for Odyssey, but at the end of the day she was just relevant for one level of the game (which to be fair was probably the game most iconic level, but it's still a fairly small portion of the game). This isn't like Rosalina who was important for the whole Galaxy overarching story and has a way bigger role in the whole game.

On the other hand, for the next Mario newcomer, I think people are sleeping on King boo. Luigi's mansion 3 sold more than 10 million copies, which is just huge and it has etablish the franchise as one of Mario biggest spin-off after the Kart and Party series. At the very least, I think that they'll change more heavily the moveset of Luigi to represent even more the Mansion franchise.
You did not just try to throw Pauline under and then push King Boo.
 

CapitaineCrash

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You did not just try to throw Pauline under and then push King Boo.
Why do people always read my message in the most extreme way? I'm not saying that Pauline have 0 chance, all that I've said is that she's not a huge important piece of Odyssey, only playing a major role in one level, while King boo is way more prominent in his own game, and despite being a spin off the popularity of said game could help bring him to Smash.

Please stop reading the smallest criticism to your most wanted as an attack.
 

fogbadge

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TBH, I think that with the "fixed cast" franchises like Mario, Kirby, and (sort of) Zelda, it's very easy to say who is and isn't important. We can't say FLUDD, Elfilin, and Skull Kid are important outside the games they appear in.

Sure, I think Mario from now on will get by on giving certain older characters their time to shine and/or promote them to spin-off regular, but does Zelda need a core main cast beyond the Triforce holders? Does Kirby need anything more than the perfect quartet of Kirby, Meta Knight, Dedede, and Bandana Waddle Dee?

Pokémon, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, and other "rotating cast" franchises will continue to accrue important characters, though, but there's the issue of those characters falling off in importance when the new hotness comes around.
ah but you see you’ve illustrated my point about shifting importance. Bandana is more important now than he was in his debut. And back then people might have said the same thing you are “do we need anyone outside our perfect trio”
 

Gengar84

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I sometimes find it hard to express my thoughts clearly online. For example, I often bring up popularly requested characters in trying to present my personal favorites as alternatives and what advantages they might have over the more commonly supported ones but I always worry that I’m coming across as attacking the more popular characters. Most of the time, I would be perfectly happy with those characters too, even if they aren’t my top choices. I just want to try to bring more characters into the discussion.
 

fogbadge

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I sometimes find it hard to express my thoughts clearly online. For example, I often bring up popularly requested characters in trying to present my personal favorites as alternatives and what advantages they might have over the more commonly supported ones but I always worry that I’m coming across as attacking the more popular characters. Most of the time, I would be perfectly happy with those characters too, even if they aren’t my top choices. I just want to try to bring more characters into the discussion.
well keep an it, we could do with more characters in discussion
 

Gengar84

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well keep an it, we could do with more characters in discussion
Someone else I almost never bring up that I think could be a lot of fun in Smash is Etna from Disgaea. The series seems to be exclusive to Nintendo consoles now and has crazy over the top animations that could be really fun in Smash. Laharl is possibly the more obvious choice but I personally prefer Etna, both as a character and she makes prominent use of the Prinnies, which are Disgaea’s mascot. That way, we’re almost getting two characters in one. It also helps that she’s a spear user, which we don’t really have in Smash yet.
 

fogbadge

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Someone else I almost never bring up that I think could be a lot of fun in Smash is Etna from Disgaea. The series seems to be exclusive to Nintendo consoles now and has crazy over the top animations that could be really fun in Smash. Laharl is possibly the more obvious choice but I personally prefer Etna, both as a character and she makes prominent use of the Prinnies, which are Disgaea’s mascot. That way, we’re almost getting two characters in one. It also helps that she’s a spear user, which we don’t really have in Smash yet.
that’s the spirit I don’t know who you’re talking about
 

Gengar84

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that’s the spirit I don’t know who you’re talking about
She’s one of the main characters from the strategy RPG Disgaea, which has been around since the PlayStation 2. Disgaea 6 was exclusive to the Switch and Disgaea 7 has already been revealed. The games are a lot like Fire Emblem but with way crazier attack animations and mechanics with a goofier story. The Prinnies are basically little blue penguin soldiers. Her default outfit is probably a bit too revealing for Smash but I’ve seen some decent alternatives that some fans have thought up that could work.

Something along these lines would probably be fine for Smash:

1674586660464.jpeg


This is a Prinny. They’re basically Disgaea’s equivalent to Dragon Quest’s Slime. They’re the lowest level monster and mascot for the series. Etna uses them a lot in her moveset because they explode when thrown, basically making them living bombs.

1674586755182.jpeg
 
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SPEN18

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I don't think the importance argument holds much water for Mario characters after we got Piranha Plant in Ultimate.

Rosalina is pretty popular and quickly became a spin-off mainstay, not unlike Bowser Jr. and Rosalina. King Boo, on the other hand, has noticeably less frequent appearances in those during the Switch era, making me believe that his relevance to Luigi's Mansion games doesn't reflect the wider franchise significance as much as you argue.
PP was filling an explicit quota for a surprise rep, with its recognizability giving it a leg up on that spot. It's hardly a model for the Rosalina- and Jr-style Mario reps who do get in for importance.

I think Pauline probably needs bigger appearances besides just being roster backfill for spinoffs. And if a character does get chosen for being playable in Mario spinoffs then Waluigi is the far more popular choice. I will take King Boo's likely future as a recurring primary antagonist over Pauline's as the fourth-string Mario girl after Peach, Daisy, and Rosalina. Plus it's not like King Boo is totally absent from spinoffs, either.
 

Quillion

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ah but you see you’ve illustrated my point about shifting importance. Bandana is more important now than he was in his debut. And back then people might have said the same thing you are “do we need anyone outside our perfect trio”
There was a lot more room to throw things to the wall and seeing what sticks when those franchises were relatively young. Kirby, Meta Knight and Dedede weren't even the group they are now until RTDL.
 

Zerp

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Speaking of Luigi's Mansion and Mario characters, I feel Polterpup's lowkey pretty likely. Like, I think King Boo is more probable but I won't be shocked if we end up getting the ghost doggo first lol
 

Stratos

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Waluigi I would say is the last character from the mario franchise left for the newcomer to come in future Super Smash Bros games, if I'm not mistaken of course.
 

Gengar84

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The more I’m thinking about it, the more Etna is climbing the ranks among my most wanted characters. I’ve put over a thousand hours in the Disgaea series and Etna has always been a favorite of mine. I don’t know why I don’t think of her more often when discussing Smash. Seeing as she’s one of the main characters from a series now 20 years old, going into its 7th entry, and now exclusive to Nintendo (as far as I’m aware), I don’t think her chances are nonexistent.

I’ve also noticed that whenever we get a male and female lead in the same game, I almost always prefer the female, especially when it comes to Smash. One of the few exceptions is I prefer Tidus to Yuna as a character but even then I think Yuna would be the more interesting Smash character. Lulu is my favorite character in the game, though not one of the leads so I don’t know if she counts.
 
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fogbadge

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There was a lot more room to throw things to the wall and seeing what sticks when those franchises were relatively young. Kirby, Meta Knight and Dedede weren't even the group they are now until RTDL.
you know adventure wii is less than half the ages of the series right? you can hardly call that when the series was young
 

DarthEnderX

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so? like I said we can’t agree on who is and isn’t popular. if anything being the fan base disqualifies us
The fanbase are literally the ONLY ones who can decide who's popular. On account of how popularity is, by definition, a measurement of fans' sentiment.
 
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fogbadge

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The fanbase are literally the ONLY ones who can decide who's popular. On account of how popularity is, by definition, a measurement of fans' sentiment.
but we’re not talking about who’s popular we’re talking about who’s important. not the same thing
 

NintenZ

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If we get someone from Luigi’s Mansion it’ll be Gooigi

Easy clone character to make, they already have assets given they could repurpose Luigi’s model and have the Poltergeist 3000, and the developers have expressed interest in continuing to use him, in fact I think if we get any clones/Echoes he’s probably one of the most obvious.
 
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DarthEnderX

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If we get someone from Luigi’s Mansion it’ll be Gooigi

Easy clone character to make, they already have assets given they could repurpose Luigi’s model and have the Poltergeist 3000, and the developers have expressed interest in continuing to use him,
dies instantly to FLUDD or Squirtle...
 

Opossum

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Honestly one of the bigger annoyances that comes alongside only discussing things that are deemed likely is that it ends up a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"Why bother talking about things that I don't see as popular or important?" ends up shutting down a lot of potential discussion, and that's terrible because word of mouth is what causes the exceptions to the likelihood paradigm to become A Thing. Isaac, for example, got to be so popular and perceived as likely because the fanbase was allowed to grow. Golden Sun would absolutely not fit into Smash discussions these days had Isaac's support not been allowed to so naturally grow. And then there's Geno as yet another example of a character (who would have never been seriously discussed otherwise) getting a strong enough grassroots movement to become a staple of speculation.

Attempting to stifle discussion because "everyone who's [popular/important/otherwise "worthy"] enough is already in; don't push for D Listers" is, at best, incredibly closed minded. The fanbase can make something popular, important, or "worthy" enough. The issue arises when people attempt to gatekeep like they have been and not allow that process to happen.
 

Gengar84

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Honestly one of the bigger annoyances that comes alongside only discussing things that are deemed likely is that it ends up a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"Why bother talking about things that I don't see as popular or important?" ends up shutting down a lot of potential discussion, and that's terrible because word of mouth is what causes the exceptions to the likelihood paradigm to become A Thing. Isaac, for example, got to be so popular and perceived as likely because the fanbase was allowed to grow. Golden Sun would absolutely not fit into Smash discussions these days had Isaac's support not been allowed to so naturally grow. And then there's Geno as yet another example of a character (who would have never been seriously discussed otherwise) getting a strong enough grassroots movement to become a staple of speculation.

Attempting to stifle discussion because "everyone who's [popular/important/otherwise "worthy"] enough is already in; don't push for D Listers" is, at best, incredibly closed minded. The fanbase can make something popular, important, or "worthy" enough. The issue arises when people attempt to gatekeep like they have been and not allow that process to happen.
I totally agree. There’s a ton of possibilities out there and it’s kind of boring to me to just focus on a few characters. There’s nothing wrong with discussing popular characters but I feel it’s best to keep an open mind. I’ll keep doing my best to bring up other potentially interesting characters even if it feels like I’m just talking to myself sometimes lol. Who knows? Maybe one day, one of my favorites will catch on in the same way Geno or Isaac did (although I did vote for K. Rool on the ballot so I suppose it already did in a way).
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Why bother talking about things that I don't see as popular or important?" ends up shutting down a lot of potential discussion, and that's terrible because word of mouth is what causes the exceptions to the likelihood paradigm to become A Thing
To add to this.

"I don't think X character is likely." Is still adding to the discussion.

Shutting down conversations is what we want to avoid. People can talk about stuff even if they all agree it'll never happen.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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Honestly one of the bigger annoyances that comes alongside only discussing things that are deemed likely is that it ends up a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"Why bother talking about things that I don't see as popular or important?" ends up shutting down a lot of potential discussion, and that's terrible because word of mouth is what causes the exceptions to the likelihood paradigm to become A Thing. Isaac, for example, got to be so popular and perceived as likely because the fanbase was allowed to grow. Golden Sun would absolutely not fit into Smash discussions these days had Isaac's support not been allowed to so naturally grow. And then there's Geno as yet another example of a character (who would have never been seriously discussed otherwise) getting a strong enough grassroots movement to become a staple of speculation.

Attempting to stifle discussion because "everyone who's [popular/important/otherwise "worthy"] enough is already in; don't push for D Listers" is, at best, incredibly closed minded. The fanbase can make something popular, important, or "worthy" enough. The issue arises when people attempt to gatekeep like they have been and not allow that process to happen.
This is unfortunately quite common for the community to do, I notice. Yeah, people see it as retaining realism, but that only goes so far when Smash has become trigger happy with curveballs, to the point where the very curveballs become more commonplace than the other patterns people will often notice.

Dixie and Bandana Dee being next in line for their respective franchises... do we really know that for certain? It hasn't happened yet, despite being fairly common assumptions for about a decade. And like I mentioned earlier, not all agree.
 

Gengar84

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To add to this.

"I don't think X character is likely." Is still adding to the discussion.

Shutting down conversations is what we want to avoid. People can talk about stuff even if they all agree it'll never happen.
That’s fair. I don’t think it’s a great idea to completely write any character off but some are definitely more likely than others. Still, we don’t always get the most likely characters and Sakurai is known for his surprise picks. Unlikely doesn’t mean impossible.
 
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Ivander

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Someone else I almost never bring up that I think could be a lot of fun in Smash is Etna from Disgaea. The series seems to be exclusive to Nintendo consoles now and has crazy over the top animations that could be really fun in Smash. Laharl is possibly the more obvious choice but I personally prefer Etna, both as a character and she makes prominent use of the Prinnies, which are Disgaea’s mascot. That way, we’re almost getting two characters in one. It also helps that she’s a spear user, which we don’t really have in Smash yet.
I mean, Etna has gotten in crossovers over Laharl, like Cross Edge where she interacted with Morrigan, Demitri, Lilith, Felicia and Jedah. The only thing working against her is how much skin she tends to show. Which should be ironic considering Laharl shows alot of skin too, but :ohwell:.
 
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Gengar84

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I mean, Etna has gotten in crossovers over Laharl, like Cross Edge where she interacted with Morrigan, Demitri, Lilith, Felicia and Jedah. The only thing working against her is how much skin she tends to show. Which should be ironic considering Laharl shows alot of skin too, but :ohwell:.
Thankfully, that’s something that can be easily worked around. It’s already happened with Pyra and Mythra. The fan edit I posted above is a good example of how her outfit could translate to a game like Smash while keeping the general aesthetic.

The artist is LucDrawsThings just to give credit where it is due. Here it is again for easier reference:

1674593050928.jpeg
 
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Hadokeyblade

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I still dont understand why people want a Waddle Dee in smash, was Pirahnna plant really that popular of an addition?

I totally agree. There’s a ton of possibilities out there and it’s kind of boring to me to just focus on a few characters. There’s nothing wrong with discussing popular characters but I feel it’s best to keep an open mind. I’ll keep doing my best to bring up other potentially interesting characters even if it feels like I’m just talking to myself sometimes lol. Who knows? Maybe one day, one of my favorites will catch on in the same way Geno or Isaac did (although I did vote for K. Rool on the ballot so I suppose it already did in a way).
Pushing for characters on the level of Sora and Sephiroth is great, but i like it when Smash throws curveballs and add characters on the Level of Joker and Terry, who have dedicated fanbases that aren't as large as the big guys but the added exposure of smash makes people want to try out their games and causes that domino effect.
 

Perkilator

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I still dont understand why people want a Waddle Dee in smash, was Pirahnna plant really that popular of an addition?
Bandana Waddle Dee specifically, who was a popular request even before Piranha Plant. Mainly because he’s grown to be his own character and be beloved by many in the Kirby fanbase.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Thankfully, that’s something that can be easily worked around. It’s already happened with Pyra and Mythra. The fan edit I posted above is a good example of how her outfit could translate to a game like Smash while keeping the general aesthetic.

The artist is LucDrawsThings just to give credit where it is due. Here it is again for easier reference:

I dont know much about Disgaea, havent played it but i kinda want too at some point, isnt Laharl the protag?
 

Quillion

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The fanbase can make something popular, important, or "worthy" enough. The issue arises when people attempt to gatekeep like they have been and not allow that process to happen.
It's a factor, but not that strong of a factor when Isaac is still an AT and Geno is just a costume.

Ridley and K. Rool are/were prominent characters in their big-name home franchises to begin with, so I can't see such a boost going to a one-shot spinoff character and a low-key handheld IP character.
 

Luke Starkiller

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Nintendo: Octoling: Octoling Rendezvous - Splatoon 2 OST - YouTube
Sega: Shadow the Hedgehog: I Am (All of Me) - Shadow the Hedgehog [OST] - YouTube
Capcom: Leon Kennedy: MUSIC • Resident Evil 4 » Theme of Leon - Mercenaries - YouTube
Bandai Namco: Agumon: Digimon theme - YouTube
Atlus: Don't mind.
Konami: Bomberman: Bomberman Theme [Cover] - YouTube
Microsoft: Master Chief: Halo Theme Song Original - YouTube
SNK: Don't mind.
Square Enix: Don't mind.
Platinum: Don't mind.
Ubisoft: Ezio: Assassin's Creed 2 OST / Jesper Kyd - Ezio's Family (Track 03) - YouTube
Koei Tecmo: Don't mind.
Bethesda: An Elder Scrolls Representative: The Elder Scrolls | The Complete Saga Anthem - YouTube
Activision: Don't mind.
Arc Sys: Don't mind.
Blizzard: Jim Raynor: Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty - Soundtrack: Jim Raynor Theme - YouTube
Sony: Ratchet and Clank: Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart OST - Main Theme - YouTube
Valve: Gordon Freeman: Half-Life 2 OST — CP Violation (Extended Mix) - YouTube
Indie: Don't Mind.
Other: Issac Clarke: Dead Space 2 Suit Up Music - YouTube
 
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Gengar84

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I dont know much about Disgaea, havent played it but i kinda want too at some point, isnt Laharl the protag?
Yeah, Laharl is the main protagonist but I’d say Etna isn’t far behind him. Etna does some advantages, like using the series mascot (Prinnies) in her moveset as well as being a spear user rather than another sword user. As mentioned before, Etna has been chosen in a crossover before over Laharl in Cross Edge.
 

ARandomFruit

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I’ve also noticed that whenever we get a male and female lead in the same game, I almost always prefer the female, especially when it comes to Smash. One of the few exceptions is I prefer Tidus to Yuna as a character but even then I think Yuna would be the more interesting Smash character. Lulu is my favorite character in the game, though not one of the leads so I don’t know if she counts.
I have the opposite opinion to this and usually prefer the main main characters of a game which is the male lead 9/10 times. That's why Laharl and Killia are my most wanted Disgaea reps. Although I wouldn't be upset about Etna, especially since we have no main spear users yet.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I still dont understand why people want a Waddle Dee in smash, was Pirahnna plant really that popular of an addition?
Because Bandana Waddle Dee is his own character, not a random mook. He's more similar to Goombella than a random Goomba. He's a named, specific member of the Waddle Dee species. So Pirahna Plant has no real correlation to Banadana Waddle Dee.

Regardless, people like him because he's cute, fun to play, and has an adorable underdog feel in the Kirby series. He's got a unique role as a close friend to Kirby and often partners up with him in spin offs. There's a lot to like about Bandana Waddle Dee.
 
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chocolatejr9

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If you don't mind, I kind of wanted to hear about that story you had in mind.
Sorry it took so long to respond: I was at work and thought it'd be better to wait until I was at my laptop for this. Anyway, like I said, if you know anything about Dragon Ball Heroes you MIGHT have a rough idea for what I'm going for with this story:

  • The game would feature a mixture of original characters and characters from preestablished Nintendo IPs.
  • You'd have a custom character who serves as a member of some sort of "interdimensional protection group" thing (if you DON'T know about DBH, think the TVA from Loki).
  • At the start of the game, your main base of operations is attacked by the main villain force, an original character that has recruited various Nintendo villains like Bowser and Ganondorf with the goal of destroying all the various timelines in favor of creating a singular timeline where they essentially rule as its gods.
  • While only SOME of the Nintendo villains are outright loyal to the OG villain, they all fear them due to just how powerful they truly are (for context, this includes characters like the Xenoblade villains).
  • In response to the attack, the main group decides to go to the worlds of various Nintendo IPs in order to recruit the various Nintendo HEROES in order to stop the villains.
  • While the gameplay itself would still be the Smash we all know and love, it would have a bit more RPG elements, such as leveling up and bringing back the Custom Moves in the form of moves you can switch out as you level up.

I'll admit, this isn't FULLY fleshed out, and some parts are a bit fanfic-y (i.e. I had an idea where Bowser and Ganon have a sort of "good cop bad cop" dynamic), but it's a rough start. Though FWIW, the comments I got DID give me an idea for a potential subplot where Goku from Yuyuki tricks the villains into letting him join them where he can leak their info to the heroes, as a reference to Sun Wukong being a bit of a trickster in the original Journey to the West story...
 

True Blue Warrior

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Attempting to stifle discussion because "everyone who's [popular/important/otherwise "worthy"] enough is already in; don't push for D Listers" is, at best, incredibly closed minded. The fanbase can make something popular, important, or "worthy" enough. The issue arises when people attempt to gatekeep like they have been and not allow that process to happen.
I also argue that this argument rings pretty hollow considering every character that was added to Smash as a newcomer, no matter how obscure or unimportant they would have been perceived otherwise had they not made it in, ends up being defended against any criticism. Piranha Plant absolutely proves this point. No seriously, if it never was a playable character in Smash, would any argument that it is a "bottom-of-the-barrel" choice that "doesn't deserve to be in the roster" been met with anything other than a nodding approval? No. The only reason people can dismiss characters like Chibi Robo and Starfy as unimportant without getting any backlash compared to Lucas is that the latter ended up a playable character and the former two didn't. Nothing else.

I will say this though - as long as Toad isn't a playable character in Smash, I will never take these types of arguments that we have all the important Nintendo characters all that seriously.
 
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Gengar84

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We don't talk a whole lot about music we'd love to hear in Smash though I know the subject does get brought up every so often. I thought I'd share a few songs for some of my most wanted characters:

Battletoads:

Fulgore

Sarah Kerrigan

Alphen and Shionne

Sub-Zero

Magus

Etna

Zero

Xemnas

Bill Rizer/Lance Bean

Lu Bu

Noah and Mio

Jena Anderson
 
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MomijiInubashiri630

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She’s one of the main characters from the strategy RPG Disgaea, which has been around since the PlayStation 2. Disgaea 6 was exclusive to the Switch and Disgaea 7 has already been revealed. The games are a lot like Fire Emblem but with way crazier attack animations and mechanics with a goofier story. The Prinnies are basically little blue penguin soldiers. Her default outfit is probably a bit too revealing for Smash but I’ve seen some decent alternatives that some fans have thought up that could work.

Something along these lines would probably be fine for Smash:

View attachment 366998

This is a Prinny. They’re basically Disgaea’s equivalent to Dragon Quest’s Slime. They’re the lowest level monster and mascot for the series. Etna uses them a lot in her moveset because they explode when thrown, basically making them living bombs.

View attachment 366999
Disgaea is actually a pretty popular franchise in Japan and I think actually kind of underrated in speculation. I think your doing a good thing bringing this up, may not be as unlikely as you may think! :)

We don't talk a whole lot about music we'd love to hear in Smash though I know the subject does get brought up every so often. I thought I'd share a few songs for some of my most wanted characters:

Battletoads:

Fulgore

Sarah Kerrigan

Alphen and Shionne

Sub-Zero

Magus

Etna

Zero

Xemnas

Noah and Mio
Undertale (besides Megalovania) and Touhou music are my absolute main requests. However, if there's a specific song I want in Smash, that'd be Dancing Mad from FF6. FF6 is very massive right next to FF7 in classic FF popularity, and that track is probably one of the craziest video game compositions of all time, lasting 17 minutes when put together.
 

HyperSomari64

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
1,492
We don't talk a whole lot about music we'd love to hear in Smash though I know the subject does get brought up every so often. I thought I'd share a few songs for some of my most wanted characters:

Battletoads:

Fulgore

Sarah Kerrigan

Alphen and Shionne

Sub-Zero

Magus

Etna

Zero

Xemnas

Bill Rizer/Lance Bean

Noah and Mio

Jena Anderson
Bro, you could have added Big Apple, 3 A.M. if you wanted the Ninja Turtles.
 
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