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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gengar84

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Bro, you could have added Big Apple, 3 A.M. if you wanted the Ninja Turtles.
I do want the Ninja Turtles and there's a ton of awesome songs to choose from but I thought I'd leave non video game characters out for now. Both Turtles in Time and Shredder's Revenge have amazing soundtracks. Even the original game on the NES has some great music despite the really short loops.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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I will say this though - as long as Toad isn't a playable character in Smash, I will never take these types of arguments that we have all the important Nintendo characters all that seriously.
Absolutely. There are a lot of "boring" characters that have perfect resumes that, by all accounts should be included.

Toad is one of them. Perhaps the biggest one.

Isabelle is one of those "boring" choices that we actually got included. There weren't any sound arguments against her inclusion. People just collectively decided she'd be "boring."
 

Gengar84

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Absolutely. There are a lot of "boring" characters that have perfect resumes that, by all accounts should be included.

Toad is one of them. Perhaps the biggest one.

Isabelle is one of those "boring" choices that we actually got included. There weren't any sound arguments against her inclusion. People just collectively decided she'd be "boring."
I think claiming someone is "boring" is being a bit too dismissive of the people that like that character. It's probably better to say something like it doesn't personally interest you. A lot of characters seem boring on the surface but once they get in Smash, you might end up liking them more than you thought you would. For example, I was never really a big fan of Bowser Jr. as a character but the way he was implemented with the clown car and the Koopalings as alts made me really appreciate him in Smash. Steve is my least favorite character in Smash and I still have fun messing around with him against the AI. He's got a lot of interesting mechanics, though I doubt I could play him very well in a competitive game.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Since we were going to talk about songs i got a couple here.




And this is just for stuff that's already in the game:


 

Gengar84

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Since we were going to talk about songs i got a couple here.




And this is just for stuff that's already in the game:


Those are some great songs. I don’t think I’ve heard any of them before besides Pokémon but the Yakuza track gives strong Dynasty Warriors vibes and the Super Robot Wars song reminds me of the opening from Buso Renkin (an anime series). I loved Code Geass and Gurren Lagann so maybe I should check that game out.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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Those are some great songs. I don’t think I’ve heard any of them before besides Pokémon but the Yakuza track gives strong Dynasty Warriors vibes and the Super Robot Wars song reminds me of the opening from Buso Renkin (an anime series). I loved Code Geass and Gurren Lagann so maybe I should check that game out.
The easiest one to get a hold of at the moment is the newest game from 2021, Super robot wars 30.
That one also has the Code Geass cast in it, being an adaptation of the Code Geass movie but with our Original characters getting involved in the plot.

The franchisehas been going through a weird "baby steps" kinda of approach to localization, a large chunk of the games that have made it to America are part of the "OG" continuity.


After the two Project X Zone games came out on 3DS (Which are part of the OG continuity) Bamco decided to start releasing what they consider the "Main" series in english in certain regions, (What they consider main series is an SRW game that features a random assortment of characters from other franchises who cross over into the main games plot) which did well enough in import sales to convince Bamco to bite the bullet and release the newest game so far in the western market on Steam. A Switch version also exists but it's Japan only for some ****ing reason, however if you'r willing to import the Switch version it's fully playable in english once you put it into an American Switch, so it's not that big a deal.
 
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MrMcNuts

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Yoooo totally gonna take advantage of this topic to share great Rayman music I want in smash.
Harmony

Suspense (might be harder to smashify)

Mr.Dark's Dare (this one the most please)

Rayman 2 final boss

Hoodoo sorcerer (2nd most wanted)

First staffs

Tricky treasure

Chasing a dream
 

Quillion

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Absolutely. There are a lot of "boring" characters that have perfect resumes that, by all accounts should be included.

Toad is one of them. Perhaps the biggest one.

Isabelle is one of those "boring" choices that we actually got included. There weren't any sound arguments against her inclusion. People just collectively decided she'd be "boring."
The thing that worries me about Toad the most is that he's a bit too "blank slate". Take what I said about giving Pauline Cappy or Tiara as a move being forced, and apply that to anything Toad could do, and that's my opinion on him.

Even Isabelle had to get by on copying some of Villager's moves alongside being a dumping ground for things Villager should do but has no reasonable moveset space for. And even Villager had to be an incoherent mishmash of various canon Animal Crossing elements since the Smash team really had no choice there.
 

Sucumbio

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I am not an animal crossing fan but I am sure the 2 ac reps got done right. Toad to me should work just fine. The smash devs are really quite clever when designing moveset. I only wish Ganondorf were reworked tbh.
 

Quillion

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I guess the one potential niche Toad has going for him is being "the spin-off character" since despite the spin-offs being an important aspect of the Mario franchise they don't really have a character.

And even then Toad has pretty stiff competition for that niche, particularly from a character who's (in)famous for being exclusively a spin-off regular.
 

MomijiInubashiri630

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I guess the one potential niche Toad has going for him is being "the spin-off character" since despite the spin-offs being an important aspect of the Mario franchise they don't really have a character.

And even then Toad has pretty stiff competition for that niche, particularly from a character who's (in)famous for being exclusively a spin-off regular.
Toad's not a spin-off character so probably wouldn't rly work. He's been playable many times since SMB2 and has a major role in the upcoming movie. I don't see how Toad could work as the spin-off character when he has been a main character since the beginning, that title def goes/will go to Waluigi like you implied, who has only appeared in spin-offs since the start. It wouldn't fit Toad to represent the spin-offs, he'd probably be better off doing things Toad himself has done, such as representing Captain Toad or part of his abilities in his playable appearances. I will say though I think Toad probably is getting in eventually, probably next game as he's been promoted more as his own character with the Mario movie and such.
 
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Wonder Smash

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Since we were going to talk about songs i got a couple here.




And this is just for stuff that's already in the game:


Since I just beat River City Girls Zero, these themes have been stuck in my head recently:




It would cool if these were among the many themes that come with Kunio and Riki if they were to be in Smash.
 
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Quillion

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Toad's not a spin-off character so probably wouldn't rly work. He's been playable many times since SMB2 and has a major role in the upcoming movie. I don't see how Toad could work as the spin-off character when he has been a main character since the beginning, that title def goes/will go to Waluigi, who has only appeared in spin-offs since the start. It wouldn't fit Toad to represent the spin-offs, he'd probably be better off doing things Toad himself has done, such as representing Captain Toad or part of his abilities in his playable appearances. I will say though I think Toad probably is getting in eventually, probably next game as he's been promoted more as his own character with the Mario movie and such.
Yeah, but Peach effectively represents the unique SMB2 stuff.

Also, the playable Toads in the main series games effectively do just the same stuff Mario can do. It would be like making Peach play like Mario but with her float.

I do want CAPTAIN Toad though, since he's recognizable as a Toad while still having enough individuality to stand out both from other Toads and the other Mario characters.
 

MomijiInubashiri630

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Yeah, but Peach effectively represents the unique SMB2 stuff.

Also, the playable Toads in the main series games effectively do just the same stuff Mario can do. It would be like making Peach play like Mario but with her float.

I do want CAPTAIN Toad though, since he's recognizable as a Toad while still having enough individuality to stand out both from other Toads and the other Mario characters.
No worries, though I think there is a lot of stuff Toad can do that he is shown to do in the mainline games. You should check this out, I think it's a really cool moveset! https://youtu.be/dZx_d96zs9E (If you want to of course)
 

True Blue Warrior

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Absolutely. There are a lot of "boring" characters that have perfect resumes that, by all accounts should be included.

Toad is one of them. Perhaps the biggest one.

Isabelle is one of those "boring" choices that we actually got included. There weren't any sound arguments against her inclusion. People just collectively decided she'd be "boring."
I think the “big issue” against Isabelle was that people thought that because Animal Crossing, regardless of how iconic and popular it is, isn’t an action game series that any additional characters from that franchise wouldn’t be interesting. It’s also probably why you don’t see don’t see as much support within the community for a character like Tom Nook compared to Bandana Dee, despite both being important characters within their long running iconic franchises.

Even if vanilla Toad is “boring”, Captain Toad has tons of his own stuff to work with.

On a slightly different topic, ARMS 2 is definitively happening for the next console both due to its sales numbers and the fact Nintendo wouldn’t have chosen a franchise for DLC that they had no future plans for. However, this time around Min Min will be the most promoted character for that game since it makes the most sense from a marketing perspective. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Twintelle gets more promoted since her popularity got acknowledged both by Yabuki and Reggie.
 

Wunderwaft

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Thinking back on Ultimate, if there's one prominent character who I was absolutely 100% confident was gonna make it in but ended up not happening it's Hayabusa. He's THE character that still boggles my mind on how he's not in Smash in any shape or form.

  • NES retro character with a strong legacy
  • Has a highly acclaimed modern action game reboot series
  • Is effectively an icon for both classic Retro and Modern gaming eras
  • Koei Tecmo's most recognizable character, and they've been collaborating with Nintendo a lot
  • Even when the NG series was in slumber (until the recent remastered collection) he still crossed over in different games made by Koei Tecmo like Nioh and Dead or Alive
  • Is a decently popular request within the Smash fanbase


He doesn't really have anything that hinders his chances, and Koei Tecmo is still enjoying their relationship with Nintendo developing some of their games. I feel he's really likely for the next game whether that be in the base game or DLC. He's a blatant fit for Smash and I think next time will be the one where he gets in.
 

fogbadge

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ooh are we talking toad again? he has so much potential and it's such a shame to see it go to waste

on the subject of music i'd like to see: if i start listing them i might never stop
 

Soy_Man

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He doesn't really have anything that hinders his chances, and Koei Tecmo is still enjoying their relationship with Nintendo developing some of their games. I feel he's really likely for the next game whether that be in the base game or DLC. He's a blatant fit for Smash and I think next time will be the one where he gets in.
I think the only thing going against him is that he shares a name with Ryu from Street Fighter. Also I could be wrong about this, but it doesn't seem like the NES Ninja Gaiden game is nearly as fondly remembered as Megaman or Castlevania. I still wouldn't be opposed to his inclusion, but I always thought Simon Belmont was a better fit.
 

Wunderwaft

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I think the only thing going against him is that he shares a name with Ryu from Street Fighter. Also I could be wrong about this, but it doesn't seem like the NES Ninja Gaiden game is nearly as fondly remembered as Megaman or Castlevania. I still wouldn't be opposed to his inclusion, but I always thought Simon Belmont was a better fit.
We already have Roy and Roy sharing the same selection screen :p
The name ain't a problem, especially since we have an actual full name to use.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Thinking back on Ultimate, if there's one prominent character who I was absolutely 100% confident was gonna make it in but ended up not happening it's Hayabusa. He's THE character that still boggles my mind on how he's not in Smash in any shape or form.

  • NES retro character with a strong legacy
  • Has a highly acclaimed modern action game reboot series
  • Is effectively an icon for both classic Retro and Modern gaming eras
  • Koei Tecmo's most recognizable character, and they've been collaborating with Nintendo a lot
  • Even when the NG series was in slumber (until the recent remastered collection) he still crossed over in different games made by Koei Tecmo like Nioh and Dead or Alive
  • Is a decently popular request within the Smash fanbase


He doesn't really have anything that hinders his chances, and Koei Tecmo is still enjoying their relationship with Nintendo developing some of their games. I feel he's really likely for the next game whether that be in the base game or DLC. He's a blatant fit for Smash and I think next time will be the one where he gets in.
Both Ryu Hayabusa and Bomberman would make sense for the next Smash title.
 

Gengar84

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Both Ryu Hayabusa and Bomberman would make sense for the next Smash title.
Yeah, I could definitely see those two happening. I’m personally pulling for Lu Bu for Koei-Tecmo and Bill Rizer for Konami but Hyabusa and Bomberman would be cool too. The fact that Bomberman already has both a Mii costume and an Assist Trophy definitely helps his chances for the same reason as Zero.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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Yeah, I could definitely see those two happening. I’m personally pulling for Lu Bu for Koei-Tecmo and Bill Rizer for Konami but Hyabusa and Bomberman would be cool too. The fact that Bomberman already has both a Mii costume and an Assist Trophy definitely helps his chances for the same reason as Zero.
How would Lu Bu play like in Smash?
 

Gengar84

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How would Lu Bu play like in Smash?
It would admittedly be a little tricky to balance him since he’s got incredible reach, power, and combo potential so he’d have to be nerfed a bit, likely to his speed and combo potential. He was deliberately made to be overpowered in Dynasty Warriors which is a series already known for long combo strings. The way Warriors combat works is most characters have a basic combo of 6-8 strikes that you can end at any time by using the special attack. Depending on when you press it during the combo, the character performs a different combo finisher. You could emulate this in Smash by using the basic attack and special buttons but it would likely be too combo heavy and powerful without tweaks. The simplest solution would be to drop the combo chain altogether and just use his various combo finishers as normal specials. I would like to find a good middle ground that stays somewhat true to the Warriors combat style ideally.

Lu Bu wields a giant halberd as his primary weapon but is also proficient in archery and has a legendary horse named Red Hare. He has more than enough to work with just going off his default moveset but you could incorporate archery and Red Hare if you wanted to. One of his moves is pretty similar to Ganondorf’s choke. It’s not difficult to come up with a faithful and exciting moveset based on the mechanics of Warriors but finding a way to prevent him from being broken in Smash would be the tough part.

Here’s a quick video showing off the general feel of how he plays in Dynasty Warriors:

 
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DarthEnderX

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I think the “big issue” against Isabelle was that people thought that because Animal Crossing, regardless of how iconic and popular it is, isn’t an action game series that any additional characters from that franchise wouldn’t be interesting.
And they were right. Her moveset isn't interesting at all. She's just a weird semi-clone of Villager, when she probably should have just been an echo.

Also I could be wrong about this, but it doesn't seem like the NES Ninja Gaiden game is nearly as fondly remembered as Megaman or Castlevania. I still wouldn't be opposed to his inclusion, but I always thought Simon Belmont was a better fit.
I mean, he was. But now that we've got Simon, there's nothing in Hayabusa's way for Smash 6.
 
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Gengar84

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And they were right. Her moveset isn't interesting at all. She's just a weird semi-clone of Villager, when she probably should have just been an echo.
I enjoy her fishing pole grab. I’ve never played an Animal Crossing game but I find both Villager and Isabelle fun to play in Smash. Their pocket move is also a lot of fun.
 

Quillion

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This is no way makes her undeserving of being playable, but I still think Isabelle is a "dumping ground" for moves Villager should have but has no room for.

To be fair though, that's the only way Octoling can avoid being an echo, and I know some Falcondorf fans just want to deflect all the complaints by having Ganon around (even though it would likely be a band-aid solution to them).
 

Swamp Sensei

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And they were right. Her moveset isn't interesting at all. She's just a weird semi-clone of Villager, when she probably should have just been an echo
I dunno. Their movesets have enough differences that I really enjoy playing as Isabelle while Villager is boring to me. Those trap oriented moves really make Isabelle shine.
 

Wonder Smash

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Thinking back on Ultimate, if there's one prominent character who I was absolutely 100% confident was gonna make it in but ended up not happening it's Hayabusa. He's THE character that still boggles my mind on how he's not in Smash in any shape or form.

  • NES retro character with a strong legacy
  • Has a highly acclaimed modern action game reboot series
  • Is effectively an icon for both classic Retro and Modern gaming eras
  • Koei Tecmo's most recognizable character, and they've been collaborating with Nintendo a lot
  • Even when the NG series was in slumber (until the recent remastered collection) he still crossed over in different games made by Koei Tecmo like Nioh and Dead or Alive
  • Is a decently popular request within the Smash fanbase


He doesn't really have anything that hinders his chances, and Koei Tecmo is still enjoying their relationship with Nintendo developing some of their games. I feel he's really likely for the next game whether that be in the base game or DLC. He's a blatant fit for Smash and I think next time will be the one where he gets in.
Same here. He seemingly has everything going for him that it seems so unlikely that Nintendo and Koei Tecmo never try to put him in Smash. He'd be perfect for it.

I think the only thing going against him is that he shares a name with Ryu from Street Fighter. Also I could be wrong about this, but it doesn't seem like the NES Ninja Gaiden game is nearly as fondly remembered as Megaman or Castlevania. I still wouldn't be opposed to his inclusion, but I always thought Simon Belmont was a better fit.
Having the same name is obviously not an issue since there's not only two Roys in the game already but he could just simply be referred to as Hayabusa, just like in the Dead or Alive series.

Also, whenever people mention Hayabusa as a character for Smash, people always bring up the NES games, which were always known for being one of the most difficult games on that console, yet also very fun and having a catchy soundtrack. So I say it's definitely as memorable as Megaman and Castlevania. Hayabusa fits in Smash just as good as Simon and Mega Man. They all come from NES side-scrolling platforming games, with Ninja Gaiden being influenced by Castlevania. So they're all equally good fits.
 
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Delzethin

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I don't dislike how Isabelle ended up, but I do wonder if she could've had a few more moves unique to her that'd have helped diverge her playstyle better.

Maybe the reason she doesn't is because of how much content the Ultimate devs already had to have done for the base game? Wasn't high enough priority to make the cut.
 
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Laniv

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ooh are we talking toad again? he has so much potential and it's such a shame to see it go to waste

on the subject of music i'd like to see: if i start listing them i might never stop
I still say that Toad's niche in Smash can (and should) be the power-up guy, given that he operates the Toad Houses in the 2-D platformers.

also, check the toad thread for a surprise ;)
 

osby

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I don't dislike how Isabelle ended up, but I do wonder if she could've had a few more moves unique to her that'd have helped diverge her playstyle better.

Maybe the reason she doesn't is because of how much content the Ultimate devs already had to have done for the base game? Wasn't high enough priority to make the cut.
Isabelle is not very different than how semi-clome characters like Roy or Lucas were handled in the past, tbh. She just sticks out because everyone else we got in Ultimate were either fully unique or echoes.
 

PeridotGX

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Before Isabelle was revealed (and when humoring her chances as a non-echo), I thought she might have the Public Works Projects as part of her moveset, giving her an at-the-time unprecedented ability (her not having it was one of the reasons I thought Steve was likely). I wonder if that could be something they give her in the next Smash to further decline her from Villager. While yes, we already have a character with the ability to create platforms, there's definitely more you can do with the idea - I think giving her more permanent platforms, as opposed to Steve's blocks that disappear incredibly quickly, would work.
 

Megadoomer

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I didn't know they gave Chris and Swag their own game!

(Shoutout to anybody who gets that reference).

Also, I have a feeling SOMEBODY out there is making a "James Bond for Smash" writeup...

I already did a few years back! (admittedly, the moveset is just the specials, the final smash, and descriptions of what his basic attacks could be, but I also included a stage, music, and spirits - I was working on the concept of "what if Bond did wind up in Melee, and he was brought back for Ultimate?")

James Bond

Series Icon: the 007 logo https://flaticons.net/icon.php?slug_category=miscellaneous&slug_icon=james-bond-007

Victory Theme: the opening snippet of the James Bond theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV7GI2LxWRw (everything before the boxart shows up)

---

B: Throwing Knife – if you hold down the B button, you can aim it up or down, or you can press the B button to throw it quickly

Up B: Jetpack – while not used in Goldeneye, going by the game’s multiplayer, anything from previous Bond movies is fair game. In this case, he used a jetpack in Thunderball.

Side B: Watch Laser – Bond fiddles with his watch and it shoots out a laser – it lasts longer than Fox’s laser and hits multiple times, but as a result, it isn’t as fast.

Down B: Remote Mines – acts similarly to Snake’s C4, except he throws them, which gives them more range but makes them harder to place discreetly

Final Smash: The Man with the Golden Gun. A red target drifts out in front of Bond, and as soon as it hits someone, it transitions into the legendary Bond Gun Barrel. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV7h55ha52E) Bond walks out before turning into the camera, Golden Gun in hand. Turning, he shoots at the camera, causing the barrel to turn red and drift down. This cinematic final smash can only hit one enemy, but it instantly kills the enemy, causing them to vanish as though they were hit by Hero’s Thwack spell.

For Bond’s basic moves, he uses various punches, kicks, chops, pistol whips, etc. inspired by the movies, or made up if needed (might be difficult to find material for an upwards attack).

For his victory poses, he either walks into frame before striking the pose from the cover of Goldeneye as the camera zooms in, dives towards the camera to avoid an explosion, and rappels down from the ceiling, aiming his gun side to side as he descends.

---

Stage: Facility – a walk-off stage that blends together three rooms from the Facility – the Bottling Room, Laboratories, and Bathroom. The rooms are connected via doors, or through air vents. The air vents have less obstacles, but they give more of an advantage to projectile users, while the doors block projectiles.

---

Music:

Main Title – Goldeneye 007 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oL7VN78Zz8

Facility https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew8AoVAXaDk

Severnaya Surface https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5e2KbfYa_I

Cradle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIJQGLam9hQ

Blow the Gas Tanks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1bBXS1F9Xo

Escape from the Missile Train https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mFWz6HLWj8

Multiplayer 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtSa6g1Ypr8

Silo Detonation Imminent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XVRHdTups

---

Classic Mode: The World Is Not Enough (okay, that movie came out after Goldeneye, but it's the Bond family motto translated into English)

Round 1: vs. Sheik on Temple

Round 2: vs. Zero Suit Samus on Fourside

Round 3: vs. Simon and Richter on Dracula’s Castle

Round 4: vs. K. Rool on Suzaku Castle (there have been several cases where people sent animals to kill Bond)

Round 5: vs. Bayonetta on Battlefield

Bonus Game

Boss: Galleom

Round 6: vs. Snake on Shadow Moses

---

Spirits: (this is assuming that, by some miracle, they could get the likenesses of everyone else as well)

James Bond (fighter spirit)

Alec Trevelyan (Ace – vs. Snake on Facility - opponent will occasionally turn invisible)

Natalya Simonova (Novice – protect Daisy vs. Snake and Bayonetta on New Pork City – timed match, survive and keep Daisy alive until time runs out)

Xenia Onatopp (Advanced – vs. Bayonetta on Kongo Falls – opponent throws a lot)

Boris Grishenko (Novice – vs. Luigi on Shadow Moses – opponent is occasionally invincible for a short time, Freezies spawn regularly)

Oddjob (Advanced – vs. three small Mr. Game and Watches on Great Cave Offensive – timed match where all of the enemies are trying to avoid you)

Baron Samedi (Ace – vs. Simon on Dracula’s Castle – opponent has three lives)

May Day (Ace – vs. Dark Samus x 3 on New Donk City Hall)

Jaws (Legend – vs. Ganondorf on Halberd – opponent has super armour and is difficult to send flying)
 
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Gengar84

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Isabelle is not very different than how semi-clome characters like Roy or Lucas were handled in the past, tbh. She just sticks out because everyone else we got in Ultimate were either fully unique or echoes.
I’d argue even the characters with the echo label are inconsistent. Ken is a lot more unique than any other echo and probably could have even fallen under the semi-clone category.

As for James Bond, I’d totally be cool with him in Smash. I loved GoldenEye and the game even inspired me to check out the movie, which I also enjoyed. If we want to stick to video game characters, Joanna Dark is the perfect equivalent. Smash has even previously had Perfect Dark content in the proximity mine. The item is still here but it has gone through design changes over the years and is no longer associated with the game.

The fact that we’re finally seeing RARE games on Nintendo consoles again is awesome. I’m glad that Nintendo and Microsoft seem to be on good terms at the moment. It gives me some more hope that I might finally see some of my favorite RARE characters in Smash at some point like the Battletoads and Fulgore. The Toads just had a reboot a couple years ago and there are rumors of a new KI game. The 2013 game seemed to be a huge success. Not to mention the new Perfect Dark game in the works.
 
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