Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Different, I'd say. Less humorous.

hmm alright then. Thanks

 

[chocolatejr9]

As much as I love Steamed Hams, I feel we should change the subject before somebody gets the wrong idea:

"Look, everyone. I know all of our problems are entirely the fault of myself and the rest of upper management, and despite years of running the company into the ground I make 100x more than you...

But it's your job to fix this! Get back to work!!!"

-Yves Guillemot, basically pic.twitter.com/Z4nxlOVo8G

— Arlo (@ArloStuff) January 13, 2023

This is sorta continued from that Ubisoft talk awhile back, but the more I think about it the more I feel bad for them. They managed to tank their reputation to the point EA of all companies looks better than them. EA! I doubt things will get particularly bad for them (Ubisoft is a big company, so it's not like they'll go bankrupt or anything), but considering I already saw at least one person hoping Nintendo would buy the rights to Rayman and the Rabbids just to avoid the association, I feel like SOMETHING has to change over there.

 

[fogbadge]

As much as I love Steamed Hams, I feel we should change the subject before somebody gets the wrong idea:

"Look, everyone. I know all of our problems are entirely the fault of myself and the rest of upper management, and despite years of running the company into the ground I make 100x more than you...

But it's your job to fix this! Get back to work!!!"

-Yves Guillemot, basically pic.twitter.com/Z4nxlOVo8G

— Arlo (@ArloStuff) January 13, 2023

This is sorta continued from that Ubisoft talk awhile back, but the more I think about it the more I feel bad for them. They managed to tank their reputation to the point EA of all companies looks better than them. EA! I doubt things will get particularly bad for them (Ubisoft is a big company, so it's not like they'll go bankrupt or anything), but considering I already saw at least one person hoping Nintendo would buy the rights to Rayman and the Rabbids just to avoid the association, I feel like SOMETHING has to change over there.

err chocolatejr, don’t suppose you can translate what the Cookie Monster knock off is saying?

 

[HyperSomari64]

err chocolatejr, don’t suppose you can translate what the Cookie Monster knock off is saying?

Arlo is more like Grover minus the nose and instead of having a superhero alter-ego, he's a Pikmin and TTYD fanboy.

 

[chocolatejr9]

err chocolatejr, don’t suppose you can translate what the Cookie Monster knock off is saying?

He's mocking Ubisoft's CEO by pointing out how despite all the company's current problems being the fault of him and the rest of management, he's asking the employees to try and fix said problems.

 

[smashkirby]

Non-video game characters, but related to Nintendo:

Daitoyou (Nintendo Hanafuda cards) although I would like him on the other hand because he portrays Napoleon who was a real person I do not recommend him.
Tengu (Nintendo Hanafuda Cards)
Mini Kangaroo (Nintendo Mini Game Series)
Nester (Nintendo Power Magazine)
Kevin Keene (Captain N: The Game Master)

A bit late to this discussion, but I just wanted to say that Nester technically has something of a "backup plan" to get into Smash, if non-video game Nintendo characters aren't allowed for Smash. His Lark persona from Pilotwings IS a videogame character, so he could just use that, right?

"despite Smash Bros being one of the biggest crossovers ever, it barely does anything with that fact. the most it does in that aspect usually boils down to the different characters just being next to each other.

With how much they've pushed it as this super massive crossover and a "celebration of video games" they've done a terrible job actually doing that Movesets uninspired, certain series being treated much better or much worse than others, and literally 0 dialogue

With how many characters have made-up moves & don't feel accurate to how they're represented elsewhere + a lack of standard things in every other good crossover, it feels like smash is too focused on being its own thing while missing out on cool parts of the things that make it up"

I have seen this sentiment grow with most of the Smash Community especially now in the Ultimate Era, it isn't discussed much here so I want to bring it up.

What does you guys think? Is Smash Bros as series actual a good crossover utilized to the fullest, Is it actually worthy being called "celebration of gaming"? Even outside just the roster? Or is just overhyped and barebones like the quote says.

Honestly, I've always felt this way ever since after Subspace Emissary, and Smash 4 and Ultimate made that feeling grow for me tenfold thanks to their newcomer reveal trailers. I mean, we've got all of these characters in one game, but these days, it feels REALLY noticeable that all they do is fight each other. If anything, special quotes against others from different series would certainly go a VERY long way.

I have to ask, is it sort of sad that doing the bare minimum like that would be considered revolutionary for Smash?

 

[fogbadge]

Arlo is more like Grover minus the nose and instead of having a superhero alter-ego, he's a Pikmin and TTYD fanboy.

i don't remember grover. though i seem to recall him whining about the number of games kirby was getting last year as opposed to pikmin so that makes sense. evidently he was unaware kirby turned 30 last year

He's mocking Ubisoft's CEO by pointing out how despite all the company's current problems being the fault of him and the rest of management, he's asking the employees to try and fix said problems.

ah

 

[MrMcNuts]

As much as I love Steamed Hams, I feel we should change the subject before somebody gets the wrong idea:

"Look, everyone. I know all of our problems are entirely the fault of myself and the rest of upper management, and despite years of running the company into the ground I make 100x more than you...

But it's your job to fix this! Get back to work!!!"

-Yves Guillemot, basically pic.twitter.com/Z4nxlOVo8G

— Arlo (@ArloStuff) January 13, 2023

This is sorta continued from that Ubisoft talk awhile back, but the more I think about it the more I feel bad for them. They managed to tank their reputation to the point EA of all companies looks better than them. EA! I doubt things will get particularly bad for them (Ubisoft is a big company, so it's not like they'll go bankrupt or anything), but considering I already saw at least one person hoping Nintendo would buy the rights to Rayman and the Rabbids just to avoid the association, I feel like SOMETHING has to change over there.

Nintendo buying Rayman and rabbids would be the dream, not only for Rayman's smash chances but because my fave would no longer be associated with such a dog **** company. (Buy up the Mario Rabbids dev team too since they're like the only wholesome team there from what I understand)

 

[NotGenerico]

So I've been thinking lately and does anyone else think that 2B's chances for the next game look really, really good? She has a lot of things going for her:
-Nier Automata has sold at least 7 million copies
-Her game finally got a Switch port
-Yoko Taro wants her in Smash
-2B has been kept relevant thanks to the anime and crossover appearances like Soul Calibur or Fall Guys
-Sakurai himself likes Automata and has played every game in the Drakengard series

 

[HyperSomari64]

A bit late to this discussion, but I just wanted to say that Nester technically has something of a "backup plan" to get into Smash, if non-video game Nintendo characters aren't allowed for Smash. His Lark persona from Pilotwings IS a videogame character, so he could just use that, right?

Sorry for saying this, but Lark was just inspired/based on Nester. Both aren't the same character.

Continuing with the Nintendo's 4th Party ventures, what if the Nintendo's main headquarters in Kyoto was a stage?

 

[toonito]

So I've been thinking lately and does anyone else think that 2B's chances for the next game look really, really good? She has a lot of things going for her:
-Nier Automata has sold at least 7 million copies
-Her game finally got a Switch port
-Yoko Taro wants her in Smash
-2B has been kept relevant thanks to the anime and crossover appearances like Soul Calibur or Fall Guys
-Sakurai himself likes Automata and has played every game in the Drakengard series

i agree

IMO she might be the frontrunner for a new Square Enix rep for Smash 6

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Funny thing is; if Nintendo owns said cartoon character... it can't be 4th party(which mind you, isn't a legitimate term anyway but a poor fanterm that makes it sound like they're legitimately different from any other 3rd party). Nester and Captain N are Nintendo characters because they were both created within Nintendo Power, of which Nintendo owns. Yes, they're 1st party. They weren't created for any games, so to say the least, how they're used isn't as big of a deal because it doesn't hurt their sales. That's why Captain N was allowed to be used heavily by DiC(who also were allowed to use several characters, without worrying about their designs either. From tons of companies. Konami, Capcom Co Ltd., Nintendo of Japan, Square and Enix as well, and many others I'm sure I'm missing).

DiC even credits all the companies for their characters, and their entire ownership is of the distribution rights of the Captain N TV Show. They own nothing in it but at most their own fully created characters(I think Lana might be it for who they created? If she wasn't anywhere else first. I know she's loosely based upon Palutena, but that doesn't mean anything in itself).

 

[Wonder Smash]

As much as I love Steamed Hams, I feel we should change the subject before somebody gets the wrong idea:

I was trying to do that but my mention of Kunio got completely ignored.

I'm kind of surprised because Kunio and Riki would be interesting characters for Smash.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So I've been thinking lately and does anyone else think that 2B's chances for the next game look really, really good? She has a lot of things going for her:
-Nier Automata has sold at least 7 million copies
-Her game finally got a Switch port
-Yoko Taro wants her in Smash
-2B has been kept relevant thanks to the anime and crossover appearances like Soul Calibur or Fall Guys
-Sakurai himself likes Automata and has played every game in the Drakengard series

Is she for good boys and girls?

 

[Perkilator]

Is she for good boys and girls?

They can censor her like they did with the Aegis girls. It’s not like Mai Shiranui levels of scanty.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I was trying to do that but my mention of Kunio got completely ignored.

I'm kind of surprised because Kunio and Riki would be interesting characters for Smash.

Yes please. River City Ransom is a criminally overlooked top 10 NES game

 

[fogbadge]

Funny thing is; if Nintendo owns said cartoon character... it can't be 4th party(which mind you, isn't a legitimate term anyway but a poor fanterm that makes it sound like they're legitimately different from any other 3rd party). Nester and Captain N are Nintendo characters because they were both created within Nintendo Power, of which Nintendo owns. Yes, they're 1st party. They weren't created for any games, so to say the least, how they're used isn't as big of a deal because it doesn't hurt their sales.

ok but does nintendo of japan know about them or is it like startropics?

 

[jamesster445]

So I've been thinking lately and does anyone else think that 2B's chances for the next game look really, really good? She has a lot of things going for her:
-Nier Automata has sold at least 7 million copies
-Her game finally got a Switch port
-Yoko Taro wants her in Smash
-2B has been kept relevant thanks to the anime and crossover appearances like Soul Calibur or Fall Guys
-Sakurai himself likes Automata and has played every game in the Drakengard series

Counterpoint. What's the name of the series again?

 

[Wonder Smash]

Yes please. River City Ransom is a criminally overlooked top 10 NES game

Pretty much.

I wonder what would be a good Final Smash for the characters?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So I've been thinking lately and does anyone else think that 2B's chances for the next game look really, really good? She has a lot of things going for her:
-Nier Automata has sold at least 7 million copies
-Her game finally got a Switch port
-Yoko Taro wants her in Smash
-2B has been kept relevant thanks to the anime and crossover appearances like Soul Calibur or Fall Guys
-Sakurai himself likes Automata and has played every game in the Drakengard series

Yeah I have to agree. 2B is a very stand out character and I expect her Popularity to stick around. A Smash inclusion makes sense.

She's a lot like Joker in that she's from a recent title, but it's become such a Smash hit that she's impossible to ignore.

 

[NotGenerico]

Counterpoint. What's the name of the series again?

It's a Persona situation where the Nier series began as a spinoff of Drakengard and eventually became more popular than the original series, but they're still closely linked together. If 2B got in Smash, I'd imagine most of the content she'd come with would be from Nier Automata, along with some things like music or Mii Costumes from the first Nier. I could see Drakengard getting maybe a song or two, though.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

This is sorta continued from that Ubisoft talk awhile back, but the more I think about it the more I feel bad for them. They managed to tank their reputation to the point EA of all companies looks better than them. EA! I doubt things will get particularly bad for them (Ubisoft is a big company, so it's not like they'll go bankrupt or anything), but considering I already saw at least one person hoping Nintendo would buy the rights to Rayman and the Rabbids just to avoid the association, I feel like SOMETHING has to change over there.

They’re literally on the verge of bankruptcy. People seem to forget that THQ was one of the biggest video game publishers in the world whose entire downfall was accredited to the abysmal failure of one singular product. The uDraw. Now was it all the uDraw’s fault? No not entirely since they weren’t doing great to begin with but Ubisoft is going down that same road and then trying to make up their losses by milking franchises to the skeleton likely won’t be the turn around they’re hoping for.

If bankruptcy does ensue then seeing what happened to THQ, Ubisoft will probably go the same way if they keep doing what they’re doing. That means selling off the IP one by one in multi-million dollar auctions of assets which is a scary thought.

They apparent shopped around for buyers but we’re turned down at every corner because of their studio structure being worldwide, their problematic management, and their price they are technically “worth” which is right around the $3B mark. That’s a lot of money to drop on a company whose management can’t even keep their company afloat despite having some of the biggest franchises in the industry.

 

[MrMcNuts]

They’re literally on the verge of bankruptcy. People seem to forget that THQ was one of the biggest video game publishers in the world whose entire downfall was accredited to the abysmal failure of one singular product. The uDraw. Now was it all the uDraw’s fault? No not entirely since they weren’t doing great to begin with but Ubisoft is going down that same road and then trying to make up their losses by milking franchises to the skeleton likely won’t be the turn around they’re hoping for.

If bankruptcy does ensue then seeing what happened to THQ, Ubisoft will probably go the same way if they keep doing what they’re doing. That means selling off the IP one by one in multi-million dollar auctions of assets which is a scary thought.

They apparent shopped around for buyers but we’re turned down at every corner because of their studio structure being worldwide, their problematic management, and their price they are technically “worth” which is right around the $3B mark. That’s a lot of money to drop on a company whose management can’t even keep their company afloat despite having some of the biggest franchises in the industry.

Rayman being bought by Nintendo vs Rayman being bought by Sony forever sealing him out of smash

 

[chocolatejr9]

They’re literally on the verge of bankruptcy. People seem to forget that THQ was one of the biggest video game publishers in the world whose entire downfall was accredited to the abysmal failure of one singular product. The uDraw. Now was it all the uDraw’s fault? No not entirely since they weren’t doing great to begin with but Ubisoft is going down that same road and then trying to make up their losses by milking franchises to the skeleton likely won’t be the turn around they’re hoping for.

If bankruptcy does ensue then seeing what happened to THQ, Ubisoft will probably go the same way if they keep doing what they’re doing. That means selling off the IP one by one in multi-million dollar auctions of assets which is a scary thought.

They apparent shopped around for buyers but we’re turned down at every corner because of their studio structure being worldwide, their problematic management, and their price they are technically “worth” which is right around the $3B mark. That’s a lot of money to drop on a company whose management can’t even keep their company afloat despite having some of the biggest franchises in the industry.

OH. Um... that's pretty bad, huh? I'll admit, I hadn't been keeping up with the details, but if that's true then... yikes.

I guess if worse comes to worse, we can at least hope Nintendo at least considers getting involved somehow, whether it be through buying Rayman/Rabbids to even something simpler, like hiring any former staff who'd be willing to work. But given I didn't even think bankruptcy was possible here... that's a lot to think about.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Part of the issue with Ubisoft is that they've become so bloated with workers and studios that the big projects they put out now carry huge risk if they fail. They have three times the amount of employees as Nintendo, despite the latter being an actual hardware maker that' has a near monopoly in the Japanese video game market. Managing all that would be difficult with the best corporate leaders, let alone the dubious staff Ubisoft's ended up with. Moreover unlike a Square Enix, which has a golden goose in FFXIV and modest AA game releases to fall back on, Ubisoft has failed to have a consistent series of lower budged series to rely on; its obsession with AAA money has caused to milk numerous franchises and let potentially reliable IP's die on the vine.

As of now, its a big dying entity without the cut throat competence of an EA to keep itself afloat or a sugar daddy like Microsoft to buy it out.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They’re literally on the verge of bankruptcy.

Wait. Are they?

I had no idea Ubisoft was struggling that much.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Rayman being bought by Nintendo vs Rayman being bought by Sony forever sealing him out of smash
View attachment 366500

If it does indeed go the way of a giant auction house like THQ I could see Nintendo trying to get Rayman, Rabbids, and Ubisoft Milan in the deal but that’s a big if with how picky they are with corporate. purchases.

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

Nintendo can't buy Ubisoft or anything Ubisoft, and even if they could its very unlikely. Because of the different countries that makes it impossible for acquisition, and Nintendo rarely if ever does acquisitions for even the SMALLEST of things. They missed with Rare, Alphadream, Skip, despite them all being such heavy workers for Nintendo IPs. Ubisoft HQ is in France, and when it comes to big companies, Nintendo (or any Japanese companies) can't acquire anything that big outside of Japan. US companies can't do that either in terms of Japanese companies, Square, Koei Tecmo, Nintendo, Sony, none of them can ever be acquired by anyone outside of Japan.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

OH. Um... that's pretty bad, huh? I'll admit, I hadn't been keeping up with the details, but if that's true then... yikes.

I guess if worse comes to worse, we can at least hope Nintendo at least considers getting involved somehow, whether it be through buying Rayman/Rabbids to even something simpler, like hiring any former staff who'd be willing to work. But given I didn't even think bankruptcy was possible here... that's a lot to think about.

Wait. Are they?

I had no idea Ubisoft was struggling that much.

Yeah the quotes used in terms of the Ubisoft situation was “dire” and the next year would be “integral” to their continuation.

Consistent drops in revenue and stock is killing them.

 

[MrMcNuts]

If it does indeed go the way of a giant auction house like THQ I could see Nintendo trying to get Rayman, Rabbids, and Ubisoft Milan in the deal but that’s a big if with how picky they are with corporate. purchases.

Rayman and rabbids being officially Nintendo characters would blow my mind. Guess it wouldn't too farfetched though, with Nintendo publishing Rayman legends Wii U in Japan, Mario rabbids existing, and now Rayman showing up in Mario Rabbids. But they're also picky like ya said so I won't hold my breath too hard lol

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'd keep my eye on Embracer Group; whether they buy Ubisoft or loot is corpse I don't know. However they've been awfully active in making acquisitions and I could easily seem them grabbing a few mid-tier IP's if the price is right.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Nintendo can't buy Ubisoft or anything Ubisoft, and even if they could its very unlikely. Because of the different countries that makes it impossible for acquisition, and Nintendo rarely if ever does acquisitions for even the SMALLEST of things. They missed with Rare, Alphadream, Skip, despite them all being such heavy workers for Nintendo IPs. Ubisoft HQ is in France, and when it comes to big companies, Nintendo (or any Japanese companies) can't acquire anything that big outside of Japan. US companies can't do that either in terms of Japanese companies, Square, Koei Tecmo, Nintendo, Sony, none of them can ever be acquired by anyone outside of Japan.

I don't think anybody was suggesting Nintendo buy ALL of Ubisoft (heck, I doubt they could even if they WANTED to), just specific parts of it. Also, Japanese companies CAN buy non-Japanese companies: Square Enix had bought Crystal Dynamics and its associated stuff awhile back, though later sold it to Embracer Group.

I'd keep my eye on Embracer Group; whether they buy Ubisoft or loot is corpse I don't know. However they've been awfully active in making acquisitions and I could easily seem them grabbing a few mid-tier IP's if the price is right.

That is true, those guys love acquisitions almost as much as Microsoft does (possibly even more). Although I have to wonder how THEY'VE been doing recently, given all the stuff THEY own...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Nintendo can't buy Ubisoft or anything Ubisoft, and even if they could its very unlikely. Because of the different countries that makes it impossible for acquisition, and Nintendo rarely if ever does acquisitions for even the SMALLEST of things. They missed with Rare, Alphadream, Skip, despite them all being such heavy workers for Nintendo IPs. Ubisoft HQ is in France, and when it comes to big companies, Nintendo (or any Japanese companies) can't acquire anything that big outside of Japan. US companies can't do that either in terms of Japanese companies, Square, Koei Tecmo, Nintendo, Sony, none of them can ever be acquired by anyone outside of Japan.

You’re talking about the Japanese foreign investor protection programs which keeps Japanese companies from being scooped up by foreign companies, namely China. Japanese companies can buy anything they want. **** Square and Enix merged then they bough Eidos, the creators of Tomb Raider, who was a hugely popular Western developer at the time. Nintendo bought Retro who is USA, Next Level who is Canadian, and Monolith who is Japanese. Nintendo CAN do it but they often won’t because of their internal stance on acquiring subsidiaries. It’s a part of their culture.

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

You’re talking about the Japanese foreign investor protection programs which keeps Japanese companies from being scooped up by foreign companies, namely China. Japanese companies can buy anything they want. **** Square and Enix merged then they bough Eidos, the creators of Tomb Raider, who was a hugely popular Western developer at the time. Nintendo bought Retro who is USA, Next Level who is Canadian, and Monolith who is Japanese. Nintendo CAN do it but they often won’t because of their internal stance on acquiring subsidiaries. It’s a part of their culture.

You are right, though I am mainly talking about like AAA companies or really big companies. Retro and Next Level were good choices but also because they are english speaking countries to which Nintendo can often visit (makes their choice of not buying Rare still questionable to this day), but really it's not just Nintendo that has that internal stance but a lot of companies as a whole over there. Ngl I DO wish they would acquire more stuff though because the benefits would possibly be huge. For a long time I thought they'd buy Level-5 all together, they are rly weird about it but when they do it, its never anything that gigantic.

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

Speaking of Level-5, I actually did want Jibanyan in Smash...I think Yo-kai Watch had a pretty decent shot for Smash 4 DLC and Ultimate base game. It was still somewhat big at the time, I think it really would've gave it the push it needed for the franchise to keep going well. We haven't got Yo-Kai Watch 4 outside of Japan, which is a huge shame, but its because Level-5 has been unfortunately struggling. Lots of struggling companies rn huh?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Nintendo has such a weird fondness for Rayman i could totally see them buying up the IP if they needed too.

 

[Perkilator]

Nintendo has such a weird fondness for Rayman i could totally see them buying up the IP if they needed too.

They could've used that fondness to have him as an extra DLC fighter in Sm4sh...just sayin'.

 

[chocolatejr9]

They could've used that fondness to have him as an extra DLC fighter in Sm4sh...just sayin'.

Think of it like this: if by some miracle they DO buy Rayman, they can just cut out the middle man for next time.

 

[Ivander]

If Ubisoft does possibly auction their IPs, I could see Nintendo going after the Rabbids in particular. They could also get Rayman, but like, while Rayman does decently in the West, so far Rayman has done quite poorly in Japan. And Nintendo often doesn't focus on series that don't sell well or have started selling poorly, though there are exceptions. Also Nintendo being a very Japanese-based company.
The Rabbids themselves IIRC do sell decently in Japan and Nintendo must see value in the Mario X Rabbids series if they allowed it to get a sequel. That said, the Rabbids were originally part of Rayman before separating off and in the case for the Wii games, Nintendo could possibly need to buy Rayman if they want to have full access to the Rayman Raving Rabbids games on the Wii. So Rayman could possibly become a necessity in getting the Rabbids series.

That aside, it all really depends on whether Ubisoft's situation becomes very dire and whether Nintendo sees the value in getting Rayman and/or the Rabbids. Especially since Nintendo really tends to be either hit-or-miss when it comes to getting companies. They have chosen to get companies like in the cases of Monolith Soft and Next Level Games, but other times they have let companies simply get bought or go down like Rare and Alphadream.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Funny thing is; if Nintendo owns said cartoon character... it can't be 4th party(which mind you, isn't a legitimate term anyway but a poor fanterm that makes it sound like they're legitimately different from any other 3rd party).

No, it's a perfectly valid fanterm. Because it's brief and everyone understands what it means. Which is everything a good fanterm needs to be.

Ubisoft HQ is in France, and when it comes to big companies, Nintendo (or any Japanese companies) can't acquire anything that big outside of Japan. US companies can't do that either in terms of Japanese companies, Square, Koei Tecmo, Nintendo, Sony, none of them can ever be acquired by anyone outside of Japan.

That only goes one way. Large Japanese companies legally can't be acquired by non-Japanese companies. But the reverse isn't true. Japanese companies are allowed to buy non-Japanese companies.