Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Nabbitfan730]

For me no crossover fighting game as perfect as Super Smash Bros., not that the others aren't good either.

What about NASB, Multiversus or Marvel vs Capcom? Aren't those great crossovers?

 

[Gengar84]

What about NASB, Multiversus or Marvel vs Capcom? Aren't those great crossovers?

NASB always looked kind of cheap to me with the bad animations and initial lack of any voice work. Marvel Vs Capcom also kind of fell off with Infinite, which made a lot of poor decisions and ended up being disappointing for a lot of people for various reasons.

 

[chocolatejr9]

What about NASB, Multiversus or Marvel vs Capcom? Aren't those great crossovers?

NASB was trash, Multiversus sorta just exists, and MVC was killed by Infinite. So... yeah.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I mean Marvel vs Capcom as a whole, not one game.

What about 1,2 and 3?

 

[Gengar84]

I mean Marvel vs Capcom as a whole, not one game.

What about 1,2 and 3?

The first three games were great but I wouldn’t really say it’s a huge a crossover as Smash. Marvel Vs Capcom only focused on the IP of two companies, hence the name. Smash is a bigger collaboration of characters across gaming as a whole. Though I suppose, by that metric, Fortnite is an even bigger crossover than Smash (although I assume the characters in that game are just skins, correct me if I’m wrong).

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Wouldn't Narukami be more comparable as the cloud of Persona?

Persona 4 was the one that put the series in mainstream consiousness.


Man, it'd be awesome if the Adventure mode had visual novel style cutscenes where the characters interact with one another.

That way they dont have to give silent characters a voice actor but can still have them interacting with other characters.

I wouldn't say so. Yeah, Persona 4 is definitely the cult classic of the bunch, but think of the impact of 5. Joker's basically in every gacha game in existence, the game is considered the epitome of style, how many YouTubers have talked about it an how many more use it's (amazing) soundtrack during their video essays? It's not like P4 is ignored, but it got what, a single fighting game spinoff? Whereas 5 crosses over with so much stuff, has a Warriors spinoff, has more merch than you can shake a tarot card at. I've seen P5 stuff out in the wild in plenty of places, not just 2008 Hot Topic. And I'm not saying 4 is bad, far from it, but I'd say in this comparison it's about the same tier as FF6 - cult classic that isnt as popular with the general audience but has an extremely passionate fanbase.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The first three games were great but I wouldn’t really say it’s a huge a crossover as Smash. Marvel Vs Capcom only focused on the IP of two companies, hence the name. Smash is a bigger collaboration of characters across gaming as a whole. Though I suppose, by that metric, Fortnite is an even bigger crossover than Smash (although I assume the characters in that game are just skins, correct me if I’m wrong).

Gameplay wise yeah their just skins but i'm pretty sure lorewise they are supposed to be the characters themselves having been dumped into Fortnite's world.

There are DC and Marvel comics about their characters showing up in the Fortnite world and there was an entire storyline that involved guys like Master chief, Kratos and the street fighters showing up.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Gameplay wise yeah their just skins but i'm pretty sure lorewise they are supposed to be the characters themselves having been dumped into Fortnite's world.

There are DC and Marvel comics about their characters showing up in the Fortnite world and there was an entire storyline that involved guys like Master chief, Kratos and the street fighters showing up.

I know for a fact Fortnite is canon to both DC and Marvel, though admittedly I'm not too sure about the others. Would be funny if it turned out John Wick has met the likes of Goku, though...

Also, friendly reminder that we would've gotten a Metroid collab had Epic Games been willing to make it Switch-exclusive. I know that's more Nintendo's fault for being stingy, but... the last time they allowed their characters to appear on non-Nintendo platforms, we got the CD-i games, so I can't ENTIRELY fault them on this one, even if I agree it's a bit petty.

 

[Ivander]

The first three games were great but I wouldn’t really say it’s a huge a crossover as Smash. Marvel Vs Capcom only focused on the IP of two companies, hence the name. Smash is a bigger collaboration of characters across gaming as a whole.

This isn't a fair comparison when you are comparing Marvel vs Capcom at it's prime and Smash Bros. Ultimate, both of which are years and times apart from their release. At the time of it's release, the MvC games were a pretty big deal and Smash Bros. only focused on Nintendo characters, which was surprising, but at the same time, crossovers of one company's IPs were far from uncommon. Whereas MvC focused on two companies you wouldn't think would or could crossover, but did successfully. There's a reason during MvC's prime when people commonly asked about the possibility of DC vs Capcom.

Smash Bros. did not start getting it's attention as a big collaboration of characters across gaming until Smash Bros. Brawl first planted the seeds and Smash Wii U/3DS paved the way for Smash Ultimate to grow into the giant tree it is now, which happened long past Marvel vs Capcom's prime. It's comparing two different times and the audiences at those times. It isn't a fair comparison when you are comparing an audience witnessing a very unlikely crossover for the first time in the 90s to an audience witnessing crossovers thought to be impossible in the late 2010s/early 2020s.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I know for a fact Fortnite is canon to both DC and Marvel, though admittedly I'm not too sure about the others. Would be funny if it turned out John Wick has met the likes of Goku, though...

Also, friendly reminder that we would've gotten a Metroid collab had Epic Games been willing to make it Switch-exclusive. I know that's more Nintendo's fault for being stingy, but... the last time they allowed their characters to appear on non-Nintendo platforms, we got the CD-i games, so I can't ENTIRELY fault them on this one, even if I agree it's a bit petty.

There's a character in fortnite who's name i can't remember who's model just looks like they repurposed the Zero Suit Samus model they already made before the Nintendo deal fell through. lol

 

[Gengar84]

This isn't a fair comparison when you are comparing Marvel vs Capcom at it's prime and Smash Bros. Ultimate, both of which are years and times apart from their release. At the time of it's release, the MvC games were a pretty big deal and Smash Bros. only focused on Nintendo characters, which was surprising, but at the same time, crossovers of one company's IPs were far from uncommon. Whereas MvC focused on two companies you wouldn't think would or could crossover, but did successfully. There's a reason during MvC's prime when people commonly asked about the possibility of DC vs Capcom.

Smash Bros. did not start getting it's attention as a big collaboration of characters across gaming until Smash Bros. Brawl first planted the seeds and Smash Wii U/3DS paved the way for Smash Ultimate to grow into the giant tree it is now, which happened long past Marvel vs Capcom's prime. It's comparing two different times and the audiences at those times. It isn't a fair comparison when you are comparing an audience witnessing a very unlikely crossover for the first time in the 90s to an audience witnessing crossovers thought to be impossible in the late 2010s/early 2020s.

That’s true. Normally I wouldn’t really compare them for the same reasons but Nabbitfan asked about it. I think Marvel Vs Capcom is a great crossover and really works for what it is. I wasn’t trying to say that focusing on two companies is worse.

 

[Wonder Smash]

That's the part that I think is overcomplicating it. We don't need to turn Arthur into another Steve.

It's just an idea.

I don't think it's overcomplicating it, though. Making him so light without his armor puts him in a very difficult position against his opponents, so it's only fair to give him something that's the opposite of that too. Plus, it represents the Ghosts n' Goblins series pretty well; going through all that to get that power up, only to lose it all, so you just have to survive until you get it all back again. Doesn't matter if it's similar to Steve, just as long as it's true to his series.

 

[Sucumbio]

Arthur would be awesome. I think his projectiles are beast ... His cqc moves I'm not sure. His taunt should be him losing his armor lol. He could have a counter down b like marth when his armor changes to gold...

 

[HyperSomari64]

Also, friendly reminder that we would've gotten a Metroid collab had Epic Games been willing to make it Switch-exclusive. I know that's more Nintendo's fault for being stingy, but... the last time they allowed their characters to appear on non-Nintendo platforms, we got the CD-i games, so I can't ENTIRELY fault them on this one, even if I agree it's a bit petty.

Can Nintendo at least add Hotel Mario music or King Harkinian and Morshu as Spirits?
That's improbable but not impossible, i want them to acknowledge their mistakes from the past (For Pete's sake, the Virtual Boy was cut from the Trophy Room for the international version of SSBM)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Can Nintendo at least add Hotel Mario music or King Harkinian and Morshu as Spirits?
That's improbable but not impossible, i want them to acknowledge their mistakes from the past (For Pete's sake, the Virtual Boy was cut from the Trophy Room for the international version of SSBM)

The thing is? The CD-i games aren't really their mistakes at all. They didn't make them. They contracted them and they didn't turn out great(though most of them weren't bad games outright, just were highly difficult to play with due to the designated controller on the CD-i system. What's notable is only Zelda's Adventure, the topdown Zelda game, was actually atrocious. And that's still up for debate who you ask which is better(most will say the Zelda 2-like ones were decent, really).

There's an actual remaster of said side-scrolling versions which change nothing other than add a few slice of life stuff, and use better controllers. These play reasonably well all things considered, which does show what I said. The problem was the terrible controller. The games weren't high quality, but they weren't unplayable in itself. Sometimes the issue really is the controller.

There's honestly nothing for Nintendo to hide. The real embarrassment isn't the games. It's their failure to win a completely pointless lawsuit in itself against Phillips, who were under a proper contract to make the games. They wanted out. If they were mature, this problem wouldn't exist. It didn't matter if said games did well or not(for the record, they didn't do badly at all, not even the only one of the four overall that was actually outright bad). They were focused more on their image than making sure said games were fine(which at least the latter makes sense).

It's not the first time Nintendo has tried to sue others for stupid reasons. They tried to sue Galoob because of the Game Genie... which didn't make much sense, because it didn't actually hurt anyone and it only at most made people enjoy the franchise more. They've attempted to sue fanfiction and fanart creators in general. And we aren't talking about cause of stuff like Rule 34, but just in general. They lose these cases because they're not based upon a realistic claim. Nintendo's a neat company, but let's be real, they're immature at handling this stuff. The problem with their image is they shoot themselves in the foot over it by making themselves look way worse due to a major lack of immaturity. The irony is palpable.

 

[Ivander]

That’s true. Normally I wouldn’t really compare them for the same reasons but Nabbitfan asked about it. I think Marvel Vs Capcom is a great crossover and really works for what it is. I wasn’t trying to say that focusing on two companies is worse.

I wasn't talking about the focus on number of companies. I was talking about how you said MvC wasn't as huge a crossover as Smash. For the time it was getting titles before Infinite, MvC was very much a big deal. It was a crossover nobody really considered and expected until X-Men vs Street Fighter happened and people were like, "Whoa! This is so crazy and cool." It was one of the front-liners to wacky and unlikely crossovers, Capcom became the company known for wacky and notable crossovers like Marvel and Tatsunoko(Sammy vs Capcom was a pitched idea and DC vs Capcom was a popular request), as well as SNK, Tekken and Professor Layton, and while it didn't introduce the tag-team mechanic(That title somewhat belongs to Fatal Fury: King of Fighters), it became the model for modern tag-team fighting games, including games like Skullgirls and Dragonball Fighters Z.

And during this time, Smash Bros. was still in it's infancy and wouldn't start getting major crossovers until Smash Bros. Brawl. Snake and Sonic getting in Brawl were big deals, but at the time, they were still for the most part guest characters and Smash Bros. was still considered a Nintendo-focused crossover. Brawl planted the seeds, 3DS/Wii U paved the way for Smash Ultimate to become what it is. And when you look at the times when Marvel vs Capcom was at it's height and Smash Bros. Ultimate, you are basically comparing two very different times with notably different audiences. Like around a 20 year difference.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Can Nintendo at least add Hotel Mario music or King Harkinian and Morshu as Spirits?
That's improbable but not impossible, i want them to acknowledge their mistakes from the past (For Pete's sake, the Virtual Boy was cut from the Trophy Room for the international version of SSBM)

Funnily enough the most famous Hotel Mario theme doesn't even originate from a video game; it was heavily inspired by/lifted from background music in the 1933 film version of Little Women:

 

[Sucumbio]

Honestly the only Smash comparison that makes sense is not all crossovers but all multi franchise platform fighters so PASBR and now Multiversus and I haven't played either yet but I hear tell the playstation game sucked and MV is good but not better.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

To ya'll talking about CD-i stuff

I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't actually own any content originally created for the system, be it music or original characters

 

[Stratos]

What I kind of miss from Subspace Emissary is that Trophy Stand item, which you throw at an enemy and it turns them into a trophy.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

What I kind of miss from Subspace Emissary is that Trophy Stand item, which you throw at an enemy and it turns them into a trophy.

I miss trophies.

 

[chocolatejr9]

To ya'll talking about CD-i stuff

I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't actually own any content originally created for the system, be it music or original characters

Yeah, that would explain it...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I have to admit, I do hope if there is a movie and/or TV adaptation of LoZ, that little elements from the CD-I games get referenced even if they're small disses.

Zelda and Link ride their Loftwings high in the sky

Zelda: Its amazing. We're so high up; we could go anywhere, Why there's the lands of Tolemac and Koridai, we could land there.
Link: ...Eh, let's keep flying.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

How would people feel about including certain elements from games that starred non-game characters? For example, including the moon theme from duck tales, music from tecmo super bowl, a stage based on the popeye arcade game, etc? Without any explicit reference to copyrighted characters of course

 

[Wonder Smash]

Honestly the only Smash comparison that makes sense is not all crossovers but all multi franchise platform fighters so PASBR and now Multiversus and I haven't played either yet but I hear tell the playstation game sucked and MV is good but not better.

I haven't played Multiversus but PlayStation All-Stars was actually pretty good. I was really hooked on it. It was one of my favorite games on the PS3. Unfortunately, Sony didn't support the game enough and the company behind it went their separate ways. Really is too bad. It had a lot of potential. I think it could have became as big as Smash within a few more games.

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

In terms of CD-I stuff, as someone who has followed YTP since its literal inception, the closest thing we would probably get is the King of Hyrule. Not exactly King Harkinian but its still the king, could even have an orange alt. He has appeared in multiple Zelda titles, like BOTW, Hyrule Warriors games, Wind Waker, its definitely possible for a new Zelda rep. There has also been VERY subtle CD-I references throughout Nintendo's recent history.
https://twitter.com/Gamechamp3k/status/1329922389841485824?s=20&t=DzN4YX00X7FMIYSE2KWUSA

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1461420095452762112?s=20

But anything like official appearances?...pretty unlikely...especially because the CD-I is mainly a western meme. Japan like on Nico Nico Douga knows about it but its not nearly as popular

 

[chocolatejr9]

I have to admit, I do hope if there is a movie and/or TV adaptation of LoZ, that little elements from the CD-I games get referenced even if they're small disses.

Zelda and Link ride their Loftwings high in the sky

Zelda: Its amazing. We're so high up; we could go anywhere, Why there's the lands of Tolemac and Koridai, we could land there.
Link: ...Eh, let's keep flying.

Actually, wasn't there a rumor that Illumination were in talks to do a Zelda movie? Personally, I don't believe it (the Mario movie isn't even out yet, and I doubt Nintendo would wanna rush out another film before seeing how that does), but I guess it's worth mentioning.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Making him so light without his armor puts him in a very difficult position against his opponents, so it's only fair to give him something that's the opposite of that.

It's fair as long as his armored form is good enough it compensates for the unarmored form. Slightly OP from 0-99. UP from 100+.

I mean Marvel vs Capcom as a whole, not one game.

What about 1,2 and 3?

My problem with MvC is that it's convinced Capcom that they must have another company to make a crossover game, and that constantly leads to licensing issues for them.

They could easily make a great Capcom-only xover game if they just madeone that played like MvC2/3. But they refuse to try it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Funny thing is the name King Harkinian was from the TV show, not the CD-i games. Those were just the first games to use it. They're also the first games to have Impa appear in-game as well. She took quite a long time to escape the manual. Zelda's CD-i design is also based a bit off of the TV show, with the adventurer outfit and all(and just like said show, her abilities were similar to Link's).

Heck, the TV show even was the first to have a proper fairy companion. Who is annoying as ever. Funny that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Funny thing is the name King Harkinian was from the TV show, not the CD-i games. Those were just the first games to use it. They're also the first games to have Impa appear in-game as well. She took quite a long time to escape the manual. Zelda's CD-i design is also based a bit off of the TV show, with the adventurer outfit and all(and just like said show, her abilities were similar to Link's).

Heck, the TV show even was the first to have a proper fairy companion. Who is annoying as ever. Funny that.

Well exCUUUUSE me, princess!

Sorry, I just wanted to make that joke...

 

[Sucumbio]

Actually, wasn't there a rumor that Illumination were in talks to do a Zelda movie?

Yes!

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It's fair as long as his armored form is good enough it compensates for the unarmored form. Slightly OP from 0-99. UP from 100+.

My problem with MvC is that it's convinced Capcom that they must have another company to make a crossover game, and that constantly leads to licensing issues for them.

They could easily make a great Capcom-only xover game if they just madeone that played like MvC2/3. But they refuse to try it.

The reason they refuse to try it is because the one time they did we got this mess of a game.

How would people feel about including certain elements from games that starred non-game characters? For example, including the moon theme from duck tales, music from tecmo super bowl, a stage based on the popeye arcade game, etc? Without any explicit reference to copyrighted characters of course

Ever since Ryu joined Smash ive wanted this song in

Not gonna lie having Sora in smash just made me want it more.

 

[HyperSomari64]

How would people feel about including certain elements from games that starred non-game characters? For example, including the moon theme from duck tales, music from tecmo super bowl, a stage based on the popeye arcade game, etc? Without any explicit reference to copyrighted characters of course

Please, Nintendo!
Gimme Big Apple, 3 A.M.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yes!

Huh. Neat.

Though speaking of Illumination, I think I now know why they cast Keagen Michael-Key as Toad...

Now that Super Nintendo World is in America, we got Toad speaking full sentences

I’m surprised Mario games aren’t trying full voice acting pic.twitter.com/WPZDo7smCq

— Mr. Duby (@misterduby) January 13, 2023

I'm... not sure I can deal with that voice for a whole movie. No offense.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And this is why I prefer more "inaccurate" voices for long movies. Cause they aren't short lines almost all the time. Toad's voice, though to be fair, can get grating fast too, so.

Either way, I don't know how I'll feel till I see the movie, but I may simply prefer the voices in the old one at best. There's no denying this one already feels more faithful otherwise~

 

[Wonder Smash]

Pages ago, I had mentioned Typhoon Gal being represented in Smash somehow. Now I've been thinking about another classic game that could also be represented; Kung Fu Heroes

Or better yet, the Super Chinese series itself.

I think this could have been a good spirit event for Smash Ultimate. With the exception of the first game being on the arcade, the whole series have been exclusive to Nintendo consoles.

Though I'm a little more familiar with Flying Dragon, which is part of another series that's made by the same company (Culture Brain Excel).

 

[Batkelley]

How would people feel about including certain elements from games that starred non-game characters? For example, including the moon theme from duck tales, music from tecmo super bowl, a stage based on the popeye arcade game, etc? Without any explicit reference to copyrighted characters of course

Wasn't the motion sensor bomb originally supposed to be from GoldenEye?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Wasn't the motion sensor bomb originally supposed to be from GoldenEye?

It was later changed to Perfect Dark, and then it became a Smash thing.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The reason they refuse to try it is because the one time they did we got this mess of a game.

Absolutely. But that game is bad because it was made badly. Not because vC doesn't work without M.

They didn't even try to make it play like MvC2.

 

[Ivander]

Absolutely. But that game is bad because it was made badly. Not because vC doesn't work without M.

They didn't even try to make it play like MvC2.

I mean, I certainly wouldn't be against a one-on-one mode alongside the tag battling. Heck, maybe take some inspiration from the Playstation version of Marvel vs Capcom and have a mode where it's one-on-one, but you can bring in one character as a partner that only assists your character.