Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

I decided to take a break from thinking about my MWs for a while and start thinking about series I don't think much about that often; Ghosts 'n Goblins and Kunio.

I've always been trying to figure out how Arthur's armor would work in gameplay. That's been a big challenge for me but now I think I have an idea; he starts with his regular armor and he can upgrade to the gold armor but only after he does a certain amount of damage to his opponent or opponents. Like, he reaches 60% or something. If he does that damage, then he gains his armor. But if he's dealt that damage, then he loses his armor. All of it. Meaning that he's just in his boxers. So he'll have to reach 60% again but in the meantime, he'll be lighter and easier to launch without his armor. This'll make his match pretty intense and difficult but that's exactly how Ghosts 'n Goblins is.

 

[smashkirby]

Here's something I'd like to talk about: Dedede's appearance.

For those of you who don't know, Dedede's design was changed in Forgotten Land to more closely resemble the one he had in Kirby's Dreamland 3 and Kirby 64, making him overall rounder and making his head less distinct from his body, with his mouth design also changing to be more of a wedge with mouth rather than his current beak.

While the Kirby developers have admitted that they are constantly changing Dedede's design, it looks like the same base is being used for his Returns to Dreamland Deluxe design.
View attachment 366400

What do you think of moving this design into Smash? Do you think it could work? Is it better or worse than his current smash design?

Personally, I grew up with the older Dedede Design, so I can't deny that I'm more attached to it. Still, his new one has a charm to it, and seems to move his design to be more friendly, which matches up with how he's been characterized lately. However, some of that cartoonish exaggeration seems harder on him with the new one, so I'm not certain they can keep that if it was moved into Smash.

As admittedly cute as the Forgotten Land design is, I vastly prefer his old look. Heck, I actually wish RtDL DX used his Star Allies look, if anything. Frankly, I really hope his old look isn't being dropped from the series going forward, and I honestly don't want the F.L. design in Smash.

 

[Stratos]

Non-video game characters, but related to Nintendo:

Daitoyou (Nintendo Hanafuda cards) although I would like him on the other hand because he portrays Napoleon who was a real person I do not recommend him.
Tengu (Nintendo Hanafuda Cards)
Mini Kangaroo (Nintendo Mini Game Series)
Nester (Nintendo Power Magazine)
Kevin Keene (Captain N: The Game Master)

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

Non-video game characters, but related to Nintendo:

Daitoyou (Nintendo Hanafuda cards) although I would like him on the other hand because he portrays Napoleon who was a real person I do not recommend him.
Tengu (Nintendo Hanafuda Cards)
Mini Kangaroo (Nintendo Mini Game Series)
Nester (Nintendo Power Magazine)
Kevin Keene (Captain N: The Game Master)

Personally, I still think Nester is a great idea for a Smash character. Could technically rep his only game too, Nester's Funky Bowling, a Virtual Boy game, giving the Virtual Boy its one and only rep lol

 

[Mamboo07]

Personally, I still think Nester is a great idea for a Smash character. Could technically rep his only game too, Nester's Funky Bowling, a Virtual Boy game, giving the Virtual Boy its one and only rep lol

My choice for a Virtual Boy rep would be the console itself sentient and fighting in battle.

Edit: Its moveset would reference the games it had

 

[HyperSomari64]

Non-video game characters, but related to Nintendo:

Daitoyou (Nintendo Hanafuda cards) although I would like him on the other hand because he portrays Napoleon who was a real person I do not recommend him.
Tengu (Nintendo Hanafuda Cards)
Mini Kangaroo (Nintendo Mini Game Series)
Nester (Nintendo Power Magazine)
Kevin Keene (Captain N: The Game Master)

You only mentioned characters that can be playable, but what about the other roles?
*Item: Ultra Hand
*Pokéball: Scrubbing Bubbles-like creature (Pocket Monsters manga), Tomoaki Imakuni
*Assist Trophies: Leo Luster, Escargoon, Spryte
* Mii Costumes: Oogtar, Tiff and Tuff

And if third-party content is possible, then for assist trophies i go with Grounder and Scratch and Hanna-Barbera's Super Pac.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've always been trying to figure out how Arthur's armor would work in gameplay. That's been a big challenge for me but now I think I have an idea; he starts with his regular armor and he can upgrade to the gold armor but only after he does a certain amount of damage to his opponent or opponents. Like, he reaches 60% or something. If he does that damage, then he gains his armor. But if he's dealt that damage, then he loses his armor. All of it. Meaning that he's just in his boxers. So he'll have to reach 60% again but in the meantime, he'll be lighter and easier to launch without his armor. This'll make his match pretty intense and difficult but that's exactly how Ghosts 'n Goblins is.

I think you're overthinking it.

Just make it so his armor breaks off at 100%, and it drastically reduces his weight, making him much more likely to get KO'd.

You don't have to make mechanics to represent all his different armors. Just make those his alt colors.

Kevin Keene (Captain N: The Game Master)

Just give me a Game Master Mii gunner costume, a King Hippo Mii brawler costume, an Eggplant Wizard Mii mage costume and a Mother Brain boss fight, and I'll be satisfied.

 

[HyperSomari64]

It is time to talk about our Least Wanted characters for Smash?

 

[fogbadge]

It is time to talk about our Least Wanted characters for Smash?

or we could do characters we’d most like to be cut

 

[MrMcNuts]

It is time to talk about our Least Wanted characters for Smash?

Besides another FE rep, I'm only really against rabbids or assassin's Creed, partially cause it would feel lame with Nintendo and ubi knowing Rayman is a big request, but mainly cause the "Rayman got cucked by rabbids/ dead franchise they wouldn't choose him" neckbeards who don't even actually like rabbids or AC would have a field day (though anyone who genuinely likes em I'd be happy for). Once Rayman is in I wouldn't care.


Other than that umm... Never could get behind shantae much. Would be weird to have someone that niche in when there's a lot of big fish to fry. But that's just me.

Edit: as for cuts. Idk anyone who cost a lot to get the rights to maybe? Or maybe some clones like Pichu? Not good at predicting cuts

 

[Sucumbio]

I really can't think of a character I don't want. I suppose if it was a thought experiment where if like you had to choose between character A or B from a franchise sure. Like we get a new Metroid rep but only one, Raven Beak or EMMI, I choose Raven Beak (but EMMI gets to be a stage hazard!).

 

[Perkilator]

It is time to talk about our Least Wanted characters for Smash?

I guess for me, any Assist Trophy that’s promoted as DLC within the same game. Spirits are fine, though.

or we could do characters we’d most like to be cut

Ah yes, because we haven’t already discussed that a million times at all!

 

[Stratos]

I know they have to cut some of the veterans to bring in newcomers in every new Super Smash Bros. game, but I wouldn't want them to cut any of the veteran characters, but even if I wanted to, I can't decide who to cut.

 

[Chuderz]

I just don't see how you go from "no cuts is what the players really want" all the way back to "ok but cuts now" without hurting the brand and that's especially after the franchise-defining success and splendor of Ultimate. We shall see but I think cut spec is always massively formulaic. It always goes third party that's not a platformer then in reverse chronological order of relevant characters debut in the franchise then the remaining third party platformers then Jigglypuff for some reason. After that it's always some character somebody has a weird hangup about like Sheik a couple of pages ago. It's boring and is a breeding ground for toxicity tho this website doesn't really have that particular problem.

Anyway if Ultimate DX isn't the true follow up to Ultimate as it should be then I guess the community will have to take it into their own hands which was always the failsafe option. This coupled together with that Goku mod that's being worked on is a very promising sign for the Ultimate modding scene. Crossing my fingers for Crash to get this kind of treatment!

 

[Hadokeyblade]

My worry with the cuts is wether or not they'll cut Joker.

At this point Sega and Nintendo are so tight that i can't see them cutting Sonic or Bayonetta but Joker is part of a series that changes its protagonist every few years and could easily be cut because Persona 6's cast will be more relevant by the time the next smash drops.

 

[fogbadge]

I just don't see how you go from "no cuts is what the players really want" all the way back to "ok but cuts now" without hurting the brand and that's especially after the franchise-defining success and splendor of Ultimate. We shall see but I think cut spec is always massively formulaic. It always goes third party that's not a platformer then in reverse chronological order of relevant characters debut in the franchise then the remaining third party platformers then Jigglypuff for some reason. After that it's always some character somebody has a weird hangup about like Sheik a couple of pages ago. It's boring and is a breeding ground for toxicity tho this website doesn't really have that particular problem.

well you from "no cuts" to "some cuts" out of necessity more than anything. an ever increasing roster just isn't practical anymore than bringing back every pokemon every time. sakurai himself said so right at the start of ultimate that this was unlikely to happen again. so cuts are going to happen and not talking about isn't going to change that. now people probably cite 3rd parties cause they're the inclusions that are more complicated. though we know it's also a case by base basis. steve taking five years to get in and b&k was really easy. jigglypuff is probably cited due to her almost being cut in the past iirc.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

"despite Smash Bros being one of the biggest crossovers ever, it barely does anything with that fact. the most it does in that aspect usually boils down to the different characters just being next to each other.

With how much they've pushed it as this super massive crossover and a "celebration of video games" they've done a terrible job actually doing that Movesets uninspired, certain series being treated much better or much worse than others, and literally 0 dialogue

With how many characters have made-up moves & dont feel accurate to how they're represented elsewhere + a lack of standard things in every other good crossover, it feels like smash is too focused on being its own thing while missing out on cool parts of the things that make it up"

I have seen this sentiment grow with most of the Smash Community especially now in the Ultimate Era, it isn't discussed much here so i want to bring it up.

What does you guys think? Is Smash Bros as series actual a good crossover utilized to the fullest, Is it actually worthy being called "celebration of gaming"? Even outside just the roster? Or is just overhyped and barebones like the quote says.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

My worry with the cuts is wether or not they'll cut Joker.

At this point Sega and Nintendo are so tight that i can't see them cutting Sonic or Bayonetta but Joker is part of a series that changes its protagonist every few years and could easily be cut because Persona 6's cast will be more relevant by the time the next smash drops.

Honestly despite this I think Joker has sort of become the Cloud of the Persona series. His game and him as a character is the most popular by a landslide and P5 is considered to be one of the greatest JRPGs of all time. I think if Persona sticks around, Joker is gonna stay as the rep.

 

[fogbadge]

"despite Smash Bros being one of the biggest crossovers ever, it barely does anything with that fact. the most it does in that aspect usually boils down to the different characters just being next to each other.

With how much they've pushed it as this super massive crossover and a "celebration of video games" they've done a terrible job actually doing that Movesets uninspired, certain series being treated much better or much worse than others, and literally 0 dialogue

With how many characters have made-up moves & dont feel accurate to how they're represented elsewhere + a lack of standard things in every other good crossover, it feels like smash is too focused on being its own thing while missing out on cool parts of the things that make it up"

I have seen this sentiment grow with most of the Smash Community especially now in the Ultimate Era, it isn't discussed much here so i want to bring it up.

What does you guys think? Is Smash Bros as series actual a good crossover utilized to the fullest, Is it actually worthy being called "celebration of gaming"? Even outside just the roster? Or is just overhyped and barebones like the quote says.

I find it hard to call something with this many references to this many games anything other than a celebration of gaming

 

[Sucumbio]

I just don't see how you go from "no cuts is what the players really want" all the way back to "ok but cuts now" without hurting the brand and that's especially after the franchise-defining success and splendor of Ultimate. We shall see but I think cut spec is always massively formulaic. It always goes third party that's not a platformer then in reverse chronological order of relevant characters debut in the franchise then the remaining third party platformers then Jigglypuff for some reason. After that it's always some character somebody has a weird hangup about like Sheik a couple of pages ago. It's boring and is a breeding ground for toxicity tho this website doesn't really have that particular problem.

Anyway if Ultimate DX isn't the true follow up to Ultimate as it should be then I guess the community will have to take it into their own hands which was always the failsafe option. This coupled together with that Goku mod that's being worked on is a very promising sign for the Ultimate modding scene. Crossing my fingers for Crash to get this kind of treatment!

This Alucard mod is sweet! I would be so happy with this though I'd have liked to see his special for side be his Wolf Charge.

Now I really want Alucard playable!

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think you're overthinking it.

Just make it so his armor breaks off at 100%, and it drastically reduces his weight, making him much more likely to get KO'd.

You don't have to make mechanics to represent all his different armors. Just make those his alt colors.

You just said the same thing I said (though I mentioned 70% as an example instead of 100%). I was talking about something a little more, like the Gold Armor being a powerup, either increasing his attacks or replacing them with better attacks until his armor breaks off again.

 

[Gengar84]

"despite Smash Bros being one of the biggest crossovers ever, it barely does anything with that fact. the most it does in that aspect usually boils down to the different characters just being next to each other.

With how much they've pushed it as this super massive crossover and a "celebration of video games" they've done a terrible job actually doing that Movesets uninspired, certain series being treated much better or much worse than others, and literally 0 dialogue

With how many characters have made-up moves & dont feel accurate to how they're represented elsewhere + a lack of standard things in every other good crossover, it feels like smash is too focused on being its own thing while missing out on cool parts of the things that make it up"

I have seen this sentiment grow with most of the Smash Community especially now in the Ultimate Era, it isn't discussed much here so i want to bring it up.

What does you guys think? Is Smash Bros as series actual a good crossover utilized to the fullest, Is it actually worthy being called "celebration of gaming"? Even outside just the roster? Or is just overhyped and barebones like the quote says.

I do agree with the sentiment in a lot of ways. It would be nice if the characters actually interacted with each other in some ways, even if it’s as simple as having characters have unique intro and victory scenes when paired with several characters. That’s one thing I loved about Subspace Emissary and why I’d love to see it return and improved rather than abandoned.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I do agree with the sentiment in a lot of ways. It would be nice if the characters actually interacted with each other in some ways, even if it’s as simple as having characters have unique intro and victory scenes when paired with several characters. That’s one thing I loved about Subspace Emissary and why I’d love to see it return and improved rather than abandoned.

So to you, the title is undeserving to you? Smash isn't that good of a crossover

 

[Sucumbio]

I do agree with the sentiment in a lot of ways. It would be nice if the characters actually interacted with each other in some ways, even if it’s as simple as having characters have unique intro and victory scenes when paired with several characters. That’s one thing I loved about Subspace Emissary and why I’d love to see it return and improved rather than abandoned.

"THIS is the hero king?" she said incredulously.

I am here for all manner of special interaction. It's one of my biggest allures to Smash. From victory pose interactions right on through to Palu Guidance/Snake Codecs. I think in an adventure mode they should totally go back to a SSE type deal, with shorter levels, more specific interaction and maybe this time even have alternative "endings."

 

[Stratos]

For me no crossover fighting game as perfect as Super Smash Bros., not that the others aren't good either.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Honestly despite this I think Joker has sort of become the Cloud of the Persona series. His game and him as a character is the most popular by a landslide and P5 is considered to be one of the greatest JRPGs of all time. I think if Persona sticks around, Joker is gonna stay as the rep.

Wouldn't Narukami be more comparable as the cloud of Persona?

Persona 4 was the one that put the series in mainstream consiousness.

"THIS is the hero king?" she said incredulously.

I am here for all manner of special interaction. It's one of my biggest allures to Smash. From victory pose interactions right on through to Palu Guidance/Snake Codecs. I think in an adventure mode they should totally go back to a SSE type deal, with shorter levels, more specific interaction and maybe this time even have alternative "endings."

Man, it'd be awesome if the Adventure mode had visual novel style cutscenes where the characters interact with one another.

That way they dont have to give silent characters a voice actor but can still have them interacting with other characters.

 

[Gengar84]

So to you, the title is undeserving to you? Smash isn't that good of a crossover

I actually love Smash Ultimate and it did a great job as a crossover in a lot of ways too. It’s crazy that we got so many huge characters all in one game. Still, it definitely isn’t perfect. I wish there was a bit more character interaction and a more robust single player or co-op experience. I feel like they kind of dropped the ball on the stages as well. Rather than giving us unique and fun layouts, we mostly got Battlefield variants (which I thought the Omega and Battlefield variants were supposed to address). It’s hard to say that Ultimate didn’t live up to its name because I think it did in some ways but there’s always room for improvement.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I dont like how they didn't bring in Ryu and Ken's actors to give them special interactions if they face off with one another, that one seems like a no-brainer.

But i'm pretty sure the only Ultimate newcomer with special interactions is Sephiroth if he beats Cloud.

 

[fogbadge]

Wouldn't Narukami be more comparable as the cloud of Persona?

Persona 4 was the one that put the series in mainstream consiousness.

I think it was 1, 4 & 6 that did it for FF. most people when making that comparison just mean they’re both the most popular

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Non-video game characters, but related to Nintendo:

Daitoyou (Nintendo Hanafuda cards) although I would like him on the other hand because he portrays Napoleon who was a real person I do not recommend him.
Tengu (Nintendo Hanafuda Cards)
Mini Kangaroo (Nintendo Mini Game Series)
Nester (Nintendo Power Magazine)
Kevin Keene (Captain N: The Game Master)

If ''third party'' non-video game characters count, then Popeye has a better case than anyone. Popeye video games were almost as prevalent as Mario in the early early early days.

Either way, if any Nintendo related non-game character gets in the argument begins and ends at Nester and Kevin IMO

 

[HyperSomari64]

Popeye video games were almost as prevalent as Mario in the early early early days.

name at least five of them that aren't the arcade game.
(and don't search them in Wikipedia)

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

name at least three of them.

OK?

-Popeye (Arcade)
-Popeye (Game and Watch)
-Popeye no Eigo Asobi (Famicom)
-Popeye and Popeye 2 (Gameboy)

 

[Gengar84]

If ''third party'' non-video game characters count, then Popeye has a better case than anyone. Popeye video games were almost as prevalent as Mario in the early early early days.

Either way, if any Nintendo related non-game character gets in the argument begins and ends at Nester and Kevin IMO

I think Ash Ketchum or Jessie and James from the Pokémon anime would probably have to be at the top of the list as far as non gaming Nintendo related characters go. Ash would be a bit redundant seeing as we already have a playable Pikachu, Charizard, and Greninja so I’d lean more towards Jessie and James. Hopefully, if this ever happens, Smash brings back their 4Kids voice actors to play them since I think they did a better job overall (sadly that can’t be done with Meowth).

 

[HyperSomari64]

OK?

-Popeye (Arcade)
-Popeye (Game and Watch)
-Popeye no Eigo Asobi (Famicom)
-Popeye and Popeye 2 (Gameboy)

There were a Popeye game on the Super Famicom where you attack with an Anker with a World Map that looks like a Monopoly board, and a volleyball one for the Game Gear.
Both are developed by Technos. And since Arc System Works has ownership of it's library, so #Popeye4GuiltyGearStrive.

 

[Gengar84]

If we’re talking about characters completely divorced from video game IP, then my (admittedly biased) vote is for the TMNT. Not only were they huge in gaming during the NES and SNES, but they are no strangers to the platform fighter genre. Not only did they get their own Smash clone made by some of the same developers that worked on Brawl but they were also featured in in Nick All-Stars. TMNT also seems to be having a bit of a resurgence in recent years. I don’t want to admit to how much money I’ve spent on TMNT figures in the last year or so lol.

 

[Opossum]

I dont like how they didn't bring in Ryu and Ken's actors to give them special interactions if they face off with one another, that one seems like a no-brainer.

But i'm pretty sure the only Ultimate newcomer with special interactions is Sephiroth if he beats Cloud.

Simon and Chrom also have some. Simon's is very easy to miss, since his "I vanquish the darkness" gets truncated to just "The darkness..." when facing "dark" characters.

Chrom is more up front. He says "Our bond is stronger than steel" when he beats Lucina.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If ''third party'' non-video game characters count, then Popeye has a better case than anyone. Popeye video games were almost as prevalent as Mario in the early early early days.

Either way, if any Nintendo related non-game character gets in the argument begins and ends at Nester and Kevin IMO

If we’re talking about characters completely divorced from video game IP, then my (admittedly biased) vote is for the TMNT. Not only were they huge in gaming during the NES and SNES, but they also had their own Smash clone made by some of the same developers that worked on Brawl as well as being in Nick All-Stars. TMNT also seems to be having a bit of a resurgence in recent years. I don’t want to admit to how much money I’ve spent on TMNT figures in the last year or so lol.

Man!
You want non-video game characters that had history with Nintendo of the third-party companies represented in Smash, and my holy mary MW is a Mii Costume of ****ing Oogtar from the SMW cartoon. (that or playable Bluster Kong or Grounder and Scratch in the Assist Trophy role).

 

[osby]

Wouldn't Narukami be more comparable as the cloud of Persona?

Persona 4 was the one that put the series in mainstream consiousness.

Arguably, that's true but just compare the number of collaborations Persona 5 got to... well, literally any other ATLUS game. It's obvious that Joker is the character everyone wants his face on and Persona 4 is hardly even comparable.

Tbh, I have a hard time imagining how can devs even top the impact P5 left.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I think Ash Ketchum or Jessie and James from the Pokémon anime would probably have to be at the top of the list as far as non gaming Nintendo related characters go. Ash would be a bit redundant seeing as we already have a playable Pikachu, Charizard, and Greninja so I’d lean more towards Jessie and James. Hopefully, if this ever happens, Smash brings back their 4Kids voice actors to play them since I think they did a better job overall (sadly that can’t be done with Meowth).

Fair enough, I hadn't really considered them since Pokemon has so many options as is (and Meowth is my beloved please add him sakurai)

 

[DarthEnderX]

I was talking about something a little more, like the Gold Armor being a powerup, either increasing his attacks or replacing them with better attacks until his armor breaks off again.

That's the part that I think is overcomplicating it. We don't need to turn Arthur into another Steve.