Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's why I said if it was released much earlier. Like, one of the Switch's earliest titles. Too bad it came out later when it was too late to have a stage, some tracks, and spirits.

Er, that doesn't tell me much of anything I was asking for. But no worries.

Well, regardless, yeah, it sucks. It's a cool game and would've been nice to get more references. I'm still annoyed at the lack of Halo Spirits or at least a costume.

 

[MasterCheef]

Though there are still some characters that can't seem to get a good foothold within the Smash fanbase despite being very successful and fully qualified. The relatively stark lack of demand for characters like Lara Croft, Ezio, Vault Boy, Pyramid Head, Commander Shepard, a Dark Souls character, etc. bely the fact that these are really prosperous series.

I think the "Nintendo factor" is still meaningful in accruing popularity. Either characters who seem to mesh better with a Nintendo cast, or those with a longstanding history of Nintendo support (or, ideally, both) seem to have an easier time garnering support.

It might seem like in this Master Chief's popularity wouldn't fit, but I think he has the Sonic thing going for him, where he actually, inversely, has a Nintendo association simply by being the rival mascot for like twenty years. Because people associate rivals with each other.

would definitely explain why _ ( Ahri / Jinx ) _ has not gained much popularity in the wanted Smash character space.

Well, regardless, yeah, it sucks. It's a cool game and would've been nice to get more references. I'm still annoyed at the lack of Halo Spirits or at least a costume

Thanks. Me too

 

[dream1ng]

And you entirely still ignored that "major player" applies to everyone but PP. So yes, it's not the same situation like you keeping saying it is. He never went back on his word because his word was never changed. They're all surprise characters at the end of the day. PP just had a far more unique reason for being chosen. And one of those is "not a hero or major player", which, let's be real, applies to tons of plausible surprise options we could get right now. So why would I look at tons of oddball characters who don't fit PP's reason for inclusion when they never stood a chance for that spot? The closest is someone like Waluigi, and as I said, he might already apply enough to "major player" as he hard starts off the plot of one game(spin-offs and mainline are hardly important to Mario anyway as a franchise, as they're all treated pretty much with the same core importance. Big games that sell and make it a notable franchise. This might apply for other series, just not Mario).

Besides, those surprise characters from before weren't "heroes" either, so the only change is, which isn't going back on his word, mind you(I don't know why you brought it up as it has no application in any way to the situation), is to have a non-major character added, especially as he doesn't want to see nothing but heroes and major characters(which PP is the only one that can't really apply, even loosely. Jigglypuff is kind of close to the same thought, but it starred in various episodes, so takes a "major role" for all intents and purposes. Though to be fair, it can also be in a similar position, but is just way more popular in general anyway, making PP still stand out mainly for being iconic, yet not a popular character).

At the end of the day, Sakurai doesn't just go for the same kind of category more and more. He adds pieces to make the category feel more unique and richer. That is still not a case of "going back on his word"(not that he doesn't change his mind, it's just not one of those cases).

tl;dr PP is a surprise character who has new criteria that doesn't apply to most surprise options nor does it apply to the previous surprise characters. Simple as that.


That's better than just a costume(or deluxe). Though I'd take both anyway. Geno's awesome and seeing him in proper gameplay is great. Playable is the best option, but "fully showing his unique abilities in gameplay" is the second best thing.

Yes, well, "major player" was a liberal interpretation by Sourcegaming. The original quote is 主人公キャラ or just 主人公, which is the main character / hero / protagonist. Being "major" isn't mentioned.

『スマブラSP』ディレクター桜井政博氏にインタビュー！「全員参戦は本当に奇跡だと思います」 - ファミ通.com

『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』(以下、『スマブラSP』)の発売に先立って2018年11月下旬に実施した、本作のディレクター桜井政博氏へのインタビューをお届けします。

www.famitsu.com

Sourcegaming doesn't always get it exact, btw. They take license. For instance, they mistranslated when Sakurai said he agreed there were too many FE and sword characters into something closer to "I understand the complaints", which isn't what he said. Luckily the correct translation is the one that proliferated.

Also, Sakurai walking his words back was in reference to the label of surprise character, where he said

I’m actually not paying too much focus on the surprise element when we introduce a new fighter. The surprise element quickly fades once the announcement has been made.

Masahiro Sakurai Talks Piranha Plant, Spirits, And 20 Years Of Super Smash Bros.

We talk with the co-creator and director of the Super Smash Bros. series about the process of creating the ambitious crossover franchise.

www.gameinformer.com

Yet labelled DH as the surprise character of 4.

Which while technically one doesn't necessarily contradict the other, it's understandable how, at the least, it could come off that way. Though granted, these are using existing translations, so I can't say their veracity is 100%.

would definitely explain why _ ( Ahri / Jinx ) _ has not gained much popularity in the wanted Smash character space.

Tbf, how many notably demanded non-Japanese (non-indie) characters even are there? Four? Five? It's not a highly populated space for how many characters actually exist. It's basically Chief, Doom Slayer, Crash, Rayman, and, if you're being generous, maybe Scorpion and Tracer.

 

[SPEN18]

Sorry to go back to this after the thread has moved on, but I had some IRL stuff going on the last few days preventing me from responding.

I'd still like to say my piece, though, so here goes:

--

But if the definition becomes so dilute as to be interchangeable with "all-stars and also other characters get included" then it really doesn't mean much, because it encompasses all characters, both included and possible.

Part of my point was that even if the definition of "allstar" is as dilute as claimed, it still doesn't kill the mantra. Because at the absolute least, using "Nintendo allstars" as the label for an overarching theme of the rostering process signals a merit-based system, where "merit" is intensely tied to a character's importance to Nintendo and its history. If you sufficiently stretch or ill-define the definition of "allstar," then you're right that the term does not serve as an eligibility determiner; however, that was never the point. It's a priority-based system, so even the strictest of "allstar" mantras need not do any more than serve as a basis for priority.

If there's an all-star spirit, but that doesn't determine all the additions, then... breaking it down that way doesn't really hold significance. Yeah, some characters are all-stars, some characters aren't. Not being one doesn't keep you out. I think that's the argument everyone else has been making this whole time.

Again, in its strictest form with guest priority only based on Nintendo importance, it does determine all additions not in a dichotomy of eligibility but in a priority-based framework as described above.
In the more practical "+guests" form, maybe it doesn't apply to all guests but as long as the proportion of the roster made up of guests is sufficiently restrained, the allstar schematic still holds plenty of weight and value. I'd argue that applying the former, stricter form is more effective, however.

There are also the "+clones" and "+shills" forms to varying degrees, but as I began to explain in a previous post those can both be fit into the framework with some qualification. Even though I believe some of the in-practice outcomes of shilling are in contest with allstarism, they are still added by Nintendo with the intention of fitting in with it (it just doesn't work out all the time or apply the merit system optimally, IMO; at worst, it just allows for an allotted deviation from the typical priority ranking for the perceived purposes of feeding the financial well-being of the game). Similarly, clones still have their "allstar"-based merits evaluated against other clones; there's a reason we'd get Lucina as an Echo of Marth before, say, some other random FE swordfighter (of course this is an extreme example, but one can follow similar lines to come up with increasingly refined ones). The clones simply have their merits weighed against resource consumption; if you take that into account then they still fit the allstar idealism, only to a lesser extent than I'd personally like. Even though I personally use the allstar framework to help argue against exorbitant shilling and cloning, it doesn't mean that shilling and cloning totally break that framework.

The argument has shifted so much that now the "all-star mantra" is basically that Smash has a habit of picking notable characters.

It does imply that Smash has a habit of picking notable characters. But that's only the most immediate implication and it reaches far beyond that as I described above. \\

"What’s an Assist Trophy?!

Well, these are characters who appear to aid the fighter that called them forth. Basically, they’re guest characters separate from Smash’s playable roster!"

That's the source. Worth noting that we had 3rd parties along this, so this still shows that Guests is an ambiguous term to begin with and has more than one meaning. I'm not sure where you get the idea it means actually anything towards the All-Star moniker.

Interesting quote, there. However:
The "guest" tag as it has been applied to third parties has always (at least implicitly) been meant to highlight how these are special occurrences who normally wouldn't be there. It singles them out from the rest of the roster, maybe at its most basic level to get the most advertising bang for the licensing buck, but singles them out nonetheless. It's not nearly as ambiguous as you suggest.
And even the term's application to ATs can be interpreted in a similar manner; it refers to a character who wouldn't normally be there, but one that they would jump through extra hoops for in order to get them to appear in some form. The difference, though, is in why they wouldn't normally be there. For ATs it's generally because of limited resources and roster spots; for third parties it's generally because of their status as non-Nintendo characters, i.e. characters who don't typically make it into a Nintendo fighter.

applying it past Melee, when we know it blatantly is not true in any way, and we have enough evidence to show it wasn't even that important to Melee.

The allstar tag was used in marketing even through the Wii U version and features prominently on the backs of the English gameboxes for 4 and Melee, with Brawl's box having a similar line of "Nintendo worlds collide!" (Someone confirmed for me before that the Japanese versions follow a similar slogan, but I don't read Japanese so I am taking their word for it).

It's not "blatantly untrue." Beyond Melee there was a "+guests" component but that component was always singled out as a special exception to the normal rules, with those exceptions applied in extremely limited capacity except for the DLC cycles for 4 and Ult specifically.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, well, "major player" was a liberal interpretation by Sourcegaming. The original quote is 主人公キャラ or just 主人公, which is the main character / hero / protagonist. Being "major" isn't mentioned.

『スマブラSP』ディレクター桜井政博氏にインタビュー！「全員参戦は本当に奇跡だと思います」 - ファミ通.com

『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』(以下、『スマブラSP』)の発売に先立って2018年11月下旬に実施した、本作のディレクター桜井政博氏へのインタビューをお届けします。

www.famitsu.com

Sourcegaming doesn't always get it exact, btw. They take license. For instance, they mistranslated when Sakurai said he agreed there were too many FE and sword characters into something closer to "I understand the complaints", which isn't what he said. Luckily the correct translation is the one that proliferated.

Also, Sakurai walking his words back was in reference to the label of surprise character, where he said

Masahiro Sakurai Talks Piranha Plant, Spirits, And 20 Years Of Super Smash Bros.

We talk with the co-creator and director of the Super Smash Bros. series about the process of creating the ambitious crossover franchise.

www.gameinformer.com

Yet labelled DH as the surprise character of 4.

That only applies to R.O.B. being slightly different, though? Duck Hunt is the main character(but so is the hunter, your playable protagonist with the light gun), and Game & Watch is both the main character and protagonist of the game(or at least main character, if you don't find protagonist appropriate for the kind of game). So again, that changes nothing to my point.

Which while technically one doesn't necessarily contradict the other, it's understandable how, at the least, it could come off that way. Though granted, these are using existing translations, so I can't say their veracity is 100%.

I'm not seeing any really tangible difference here, other than at best, yes Waluigi(for instance) could still apply, I'll give you that. But just being a surprise is still incorrect either way with what the purpose behind PP was. Being a non-hero/protagonist/main character(all of which aren't identical, mind you) is the core point, so like I said, the pool is less than the other surprise characters in the context. That was my main point in the end. Thank you for clearing up the major character thing, though.

-----------------

BTW, it's better to not respond to something that far back, and I don't believe the All-Star thing is really all that applicable anymore(beyond pretty much every playable character, the purpose of All-Star Mode anyway), so let's move on. At least on my end I don't feel it's worth responding anymore. I appreciate the details, but I don't feel it's nearly that simple. That still seems rather dropped to me overall as a slogan, and even if somehow it applies to Brawl and 4 if you push it, it's not the case for Ultimate either way, which is where we are now.

 

[SPEN18]

TCT~Phantom
I was actually curious about the exact distribution of the votes in your poll for Waluigi specifically. Was he particularly polarizing (i.e. having lots of high votes and lots of low votes but not many in the middle)? I wonder if the results would be different for him (or for anyone else for that matter) if the poll was simply "list your choice for next Mario rep" rather than the 1-10 rating like you did it. Not saying the way you did it was a bad choice, to be clear; just a wonderance of mine.

--

Also, on the Grinch leak:
One of the items making it so believable was that a lot of people (myself included) were at the time thinking that maybe a big newcomer blowout was still possible at the end if it turned out that bringing back vets from 4 was actually relatively easy (and also that many of the non-4 vets were clones who could conceivably be made quickly). However, as it really was, bringing back even the vets who could reuse significant assets from 4 was a massive undertaking that took almost everything out of the team. The Grinch leak being false and the subsequent realization of just how much work EiH actually took affected my view about the effort required to bring back vets and the effort required to make even clone characters.

BTW, it's better to not respond to something that far back,

I wouldn't do it if I didn't deem it a particularly important topic, but anyway nobody is obligated to engage with me, of course.

if somehow it applies to Brawl and 4 if you push it

The point was that you don't even have to push it; it's right there in big wordart on the gamebox.

, it's not the case for Ultimate either way,

And eh, Ultimate is definitely the farthest away from it that they came but if you take out the DLC and EiH and just look at the base newcomers it was fairly normal but in smaller quantity. Add in the fact that we didn't get to see what would've happened in a more normal situation where EiH wasn't possible, I would take anything in Ult to be an exception rather than a norm until we see where the series goes from here. Again it's not like Ult completely abandoned allstarism, at least in base. The newcomer selection and rate of third party adds in base were basically right in line with what we'd seen before.

--

Sorry, I know you're tired of arguing it but I have trouble resisting lol. Plus, as I said it's an important topic for me.

edit: whoops I double posted again. apologies for being a problem again.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Er, that doesn't tell me much of anything I was asking for. But no worries.

Well, regardless, yeah, it sucks. It's a cool game and would've been nice to get more references. I'm still annoyed at the lack of Halo Spirits or at least a costume.

Not sure how you were expecting me to answer that anyway. That's info only the company can give out.

As for Halo, with that series still not being on Nintendo consoles, I'm not surprised about that.

 

[dream1ng]

That only applies to R.O.B. being slightly different, though? Duck Hunt is the main character(but so is the hunter, your playable protagonist with the light gun), and Game & Watch is both the main character and protagonist of the game(or at least main character, if you don't find protagonist appropriate for the kind of game). So again, that changes nothing to my point.

Well no, there is a difference between non-major and non-MC, where all the major but not sole central characters in a game would be applicable, which are much wider parameters than you expressed in the previous post. That's why you yourself made the distinction one page back.

And that's being generous that he meant "main character" and not protagonist or hero, which are also meanings of that word, and box out even fewer characters, as being the "main character" doesn't necessarily make you the protagonist/hero if you're just the mascot or guide or something. In that same paragraph he later uses the word "ヒーロー", which literally means hero. For semantic consistency, that may have been the meaning to which he referred.

But no, either way, it was not necessarily PP or less.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's not how characters are chosen though? I mean, we already know what really goes on. In almost every case, it was "this character or no one", but besides that, when someone is chosen for a specific reason, you aren't going to see anyone even considered unless they were in a very similar position. So yes, it was PP or someone who is not a hero/protagonist/main character. Like, full stop. I don't know where anyone gets the idea it was ever going to be anything else. That's just wishful and unrealistic thinking. It's clear at every point PP was not like the other surprise characters and had a unique caveat. If said caveat can't be applied to other considered options, then it was PP or Nothing. If it can be, then it was PP or something on a similar level of a less important character. That's just, well, how development works. We've seen this every single time. Characters are actually chosen in quite a vacuum. Ice Climbers, for instance, are a very specific retro choice, and the only other choices were other retro characters. Pokemon? The only ones who had a chance were pretty much iconic ones in every case up until 4, where a slot was set aside, repeated in Ultimate. Again, extremely specific.

And so on. While there's some leeway, that applies to a lot of series, but not every time. The ballot, for instance, gave a list of characters who were big enough as options, and even then, that only applied to most of base game. Steve/Alex were in talks for 2015, so they basically were not affecting BK getting in, which was due to the ballot. It wasn't one or the other. It was just one individually or nothing in both cases. Etc. The only one we almost got another character ideally could've been from ARMS, however, that would imply Nintendo didn't actually choose Min Min, but that was still the case. Sakurai didn't choose a single DLC character except PP, after all. What that also means is that Nintendo clearly has taken suggestions from others and looked towards Sakurai to figure out if the idea works. Since that's why he was hesitant on Min Min cause like most people, he wouldn't think she's the main character(there happens to be no main character in that series, though Spring Man would come close at one point), and they didn't care about using either of the mascots obviously. The only notable thing beyond that is the Guess The ARMS Game, but that was just a promotional thing, and it also wanted to show how there was never a main character in the end, as anyone could possibly be chosen(which either means they don't care about previous in-game roles like AT's, though we know Spirits didn't matter, or it means Sakurai didn't find that to matter that much, or both). The fact they actually said Spring Man was possibly playable among that list showed how little the AT thing mattered by Pass 2(which makes sense in context).

I won't go on, but the whole point is that after a while, and in most cases, it was "this character or nothing", and in rarer cases "this character or something in the same position". It's a general development thing to basically do what needs to be done, dwindle down the choices. Unlike fans, developers can't try to decide between tons of choices for one single slot. They have to whittle it down to make a coherent game and plan things. PP was a bonus character too, which is a massive deal. That means that already it had to stand out, and it sure did, being highly recognizable. However, as noted. Sakurai didn't want a hero/main character/protagonist anyway, so he went with an enemy mook. Why? Cause it was a completely stand out character to do the job he wanted. The fact it turned out as a real head turner also is proof of it doing its job, but beyond that, it also was a really good and unique moveset, and showed how little importance is even placed on "super defined character"(which to be even more fair, was already a thing with Mr. Game & Watch basically just being the entire list of Game & Watch undefined characters rolled into one, as their real definition was "animation". It doesn't help he's less defined than any Pokemon either, but you start to get on why these unique things stand out. Also, technically R.O.B. was not legitimately defined, till his own in-story in Brawl, anyway. I won't go on, but "characters are chosen in a vacuum" may not be the most accurate way to say it, but "this person or nothing" is highly common if not the most logical way they prefer to get a character selected.

SPEN18 Sorry, I wrote that wrong. My point was "I don't feel it's worth to keep replying to you about it since it's going nowhere, and I don't consider what you're saying to be ironclad enough."

...Plus, these are getting wall-of-texty(not intended), so I'd say that's a good point when it's no longer interesting to talk about this much. It might be for other users on other threads, but this one is even more public for all, not a defined topic as much, so.

(This is also be a clear point I'd rather move on, too. Mainly I won't be responding about it anymore. And yes, that also blatantly means "Please don't respond to me about it." as well... which should be obvious anyway)

 

[fogbadge]

I mean, we already know what really goes on.

no we don't

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So moving onto other ideas, we were having some good conversations about Rayman, Rabbids, among others.

Is there any particular costume + music options people would've liked to see?

Not sure how you were expecting me to answer to that anyway. That's info only the company can give out.

As for Halo, with that series still not being on Nintendo consoles, I'm not surprised about that.

...I mean, when you bring something up, many are often are under the impression you can help answer it, since it was your hypothetical. A lot of times the start of development is quite well known. And listed. So yes, in most cases the question is highly easy to answer.

The Halo Pack in Minecraft is a very huge thing and most definitely means the franchise has actually appeared on Nintendo, so, that has nothing to do with it. It looks more like, realistically, Sakurai just wasn't interested is licensing for it. Nintendo nor Microsoft would have any real reason to say no at that point, anyway. It'd amount to even less of a cameo than Minecraft itself got(which is worth noting that it never appear on the Playstation releases of Minecraft, so it's pretty evident that Microsoft is willing to easily let anyone license Halo, it's just only one rival company was willing to do so. That was literally done with BK too, so Nintendo is clearly not against specifically advertising Microsoft-owned works, too. And not just owned, but specifically noted as "play it on the Xbox consoles", further showing a lot of trust. Yeah, I highly doubt this had anything to do with not getting a straight release on the Nintendo system in any way. The relations say quite the opposite, and Sakurai is the one who is actually going for these other kinds of DLC(we know he does ask the other companies), and it's also been noted that Nintendo only is selecting the playable fighters, so while it's not hard stated, it's highly likely they aren't the ones who are choosing things like costumes and spirits in the first place for DLC.

 

[Sucumbio]

Is there any particular costume + music options people would've liked to see?

Costumes unfortunately don't interest me in terms of want mainly because I don't use miis though the speculation aspect does fascinate me. Music yeah there's several tracks from Tekken that I would love like

God, I miss the 90s.

 

[fogbadge]

so in regards to pokemon grevard for smash anyone?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Is there any particular costume + music options people would've liked to see?

Super Saiyan Marth from Fiia Emburem: the Musical.

 

[Perkilator]

So moving onto other ideas, we were having some good conversations about Rayman, Rabbids, among others.

Is there any particular costume + music options people would've liked to see?

• Goemon’s theme for Goemon
• Ride the Tiger for Akira
• Ezio’s Family for Altaïr
• Fallout 4’s theme for Vault Boy
• NMH for Travis
• Beware the Forest Mushrooms for Geno
• Stage 1 for Sir Arthur (MvC3 version)
• Lloyd’s theme for Lloyd
• Dragonborn’s theme for Dovakhin
• Devils Never Cry (MvC3 version) for Dante
• At Doom’s Gate for Slayer

 

[Gengar84]

Costumes unfortunately don't interest me in terms of want mainly because I don't use miis though the speculation aspect does fascinate me. Music yeah there's several tracks from Tekken that I would love like

God, I miss the 90s.

I never understood why they couldn’t just release extra costumes for the other characters in addition to just the Miis. I know the technical reason is that the way the game was built doesn’t allow for extra outfit slots (without a lot of work) but I feel like that’s something that should have been considered during development. I don’t care about Miis either but I’d have been excited to buy a Kaptain K. Rool outfit along with many others.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I never understood why they couldn’t just release extra costumes for the other characters in addition to just the Miis. I know the technical reason is that the way the game was built doesn’t allow for extra outfit slots (without a lot of work) but I feel like that’s something that should have been considered during development. I don’t care about Miis either but I’d have been excited to buy a Kaptain K. Rool outfit along with many others.

Because that means that they need to be unique for all. And any cool costume requires actually a lot of extra work so the model goes right. Even MIi Costumes can be a pain to make too, since they're model pieces in general. Every animation matters. It's more closer to "equality of costumes" than just technical reasons alone. And many who have an easy costume may require extra licensing, so it's just a pain in the butt every which way to do so. Also, keep in mind that not even Pokemon is safe from this, as The Pokemon Company has to come to an agreement for a lot of portrayal stuff. They generally are pretty lax(all three companies as one) when it comes to moves, but costumes are very very different. You might notice how the Pokemon in Super Mario Maker couldn't even use proper voice clips, cause they wouldn't allow them to do so. Likewise, look at how many costumes are missing from many Pokemon, including shinies. Like, it's not simply just, say, Mewtwo's cool-looking armor in the anime, but actual stuff everybody would know of too for sure. Albeit, most known of its armor, but still.

Overall, too many companies are picky, and they stopped doing the "any number of costumes depending the character" once 8-Player Smash was created, which is the main reason for exactly 8 costumes(Mii Fighters aside). If anything, we need some less sucky costumes. Cloud especially.

 

[Sucumbio]

I never understood why they couldn’t just release extra costumes for the other characters in addition to just the Miis. I know the technical reason is that the way the game was built doesn’t allow for extra outfit slots (without a lot of work) but I feel like that’s something that should have been considered during development. I don’t care about Miis either but I’d have been excited to buy a Kaptain K. Rool outfit along with many others.

Yeah to me you'd assume by now there'd be no limit to how many skins a character can have but I think the interactions would be the hardest part to work with so it may mean something like using dynamic "snap to" region scanning or something but anything that isn't hard coded becomes a strain on performance so...

 

[Opossum]

Ooh boy. I know it is just one poll, but given the current results, Waluigi might not even be making top ten on the Smash Community Character Corral for want after Part 2 finishes. He got a good score, but you would be surprised. I do think he has one of the most vocal support bases, but I would not say automatically he is the most popular first party or that he is a lock by any means.

Didn't that particular poll also have an incredibly small sample size? Like, sub-200 respondents? That and the polling method of "rating 1-5" inherently favors non-polarizing characters. And even then, the averages were incredibly close as a consequence of the paltry sample size.

Like, I'm sorry but the poll is absolutely not indicative of the wider fanbase opinion. In reality it's abundantly clear that Waluigi is significantly more popular than pretty much all other first party characters, while this poll would erroneously put him below Pauline.

 

[Sucumbio]

I will be very interested to see how it all stacks once all the segments are done... But yeah maybe reopen the polls and keep them open until the last one is over?

 

[chocolatejr9]

so in regards to pokemon grevard for smash anyone?

It'd be pretty broken, given its schtick...

 

[Ivander]

It'd be pretty broken, given its schtick...

By it's schtick, do you mean the digging or the absorbing life force unintentionally while around people?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Didn't that particular poll also have an incredibly small sample size? Like, sub-200 respondents? That and the polling method of "rating 1-5" inherently favors non-polarizing characters. And even then, the averages were incredibly close as a consequence of the paltry sample size.

Like, I'm sorry but the poll is absolutely not indicative of the wider fanbase opinion. In reality it's abundantly clear that Waluigi is significantly more popular than pretty much all other first party characters, while this poll would erroneously put him below Pauline.

I was already in a horrible mood due to personal events that happened today. Thank you for making it even worse with your smug post.

I indicated that the poll was decent supportive evidence that Waluigi was a hyper polarizing character that probably was not outright the most popular first party. Just because he has a vocal fanbase does not mean that he automatically is the most popular first party. Its easy to just claim that there is this massive ground swell of support for Waluigi, when honestly he is also a polarizing pick.

Just because you get trending on Twitter does not mean much at the end of the day. By the nature of the twitter algorithm, it was easy to get Waluigi trending when people were already talking about Smash and Nintendo that day. All it took was a couple dozen funny posts to get him trending.

Also I mentioned earlier that this poll is not representative of the entire community. In the first ****ing line of the post you quoted.

Ooh boy. I know it is just one poll, but given the current results, Waluigi might not even be making top ten on the Smash Community Character Corral for want after Part 2 finishes.

You do not have to read into it super hard when as I highlighted, it is just one poll. You could build up the argument that Waluigi was and still is a polarizing character, like I have, to support the findings of the poll even if it might not be a representative sample. As I highlighted, multiple other polls have shown that Waluigi, while having a vocal fanbase, does not have the stranglehold over fan demand that you claim. If anything, it helps show that his popularity is not overwhelming as you claim it is.

 

[chocolatejr9]

By it's schtick, do you mean the digging or the absorbing life force unintentionally while around people?

Absorbing life force. IT KILLED THAT WOMAN IN LESS THAN A MINUTE! How are we supposed to expect the Smash fighters to survive a whole round?

 

[MrMcNuts]

Waluigi is probably the most wanted 1st party by a landslide, can't think of other 1st party characters that are brought up nearly as much as him

 

[fogbadge]

Absorbing life force. IT KILLED THAT WOMAN IN LESS THAN A MINUTE! How are we supposed to expect the Smash fighters to survive a whole round?

well the same way the smash fighters deal with mewtwos beserk gene and the various type immunities they have. ignore it

 

[Sucumbio]

Absorbing life force. IT KILLED THAT WOMAN IN LESS THAN A MINUTE! How are we supposed to expect the Smash fighters to survive a whole round?

Wait...

Spoiler: New Pokemon

So the dude rolled up on a chick holding a nighttime tea party for her Pokemon friends and she died?

Woah. Pokemon has changed.

 

[fogbadge]

Wait...

Spoiler: New Pokemon

So the dude rolled up on a chick holding a nighttime tea party for her Pokemon friends and she died?

Woah. Pokemon has changed.

what are you talking about? Pokemon has had murder for ages

 

[chocolatejr9]

Wait...

Spoiler: New Pokemon

So the dude rolled up on a chick holding a nighttime tea party for her Pokemon friends and she died?

Woah. Pokemon has changed.

I was talking about this:

Spoiler

Real talk, though: these found footage style reveals are some of the best. Helps lend credibility to the Pokedex.

 

[HyperSomari64]

It's been 5 years since the release of the first Fire Emblem Warriors, and Rowan and Lianna aren't still on Heroes. Does IntSys prefer that the game doesn't exists?

 

[Sucumbio]

I was talking about this:

Spoiler

Real talk, though: these found footage style reveals are some of the best. Helps lend credibility to the Pokedex.

Dang! They're both creepy AF imho but lol that's a crazy reveal. fogbadge yeah I mean my memory is of the cartoon from age's ago we still sing the intro at the top of our lungs but I don't recall it being so menacing more emotional and silly.

 

[fogbadge]

Dang! They're both creepy AF imho but lol that's a crazy reveal. fogbadge yeah I mean my memory is of the cartoon from age's ago we still sing the intro at the top of our lungs but I don't recall it being so menacing more emotional and silly.

well if you didn't know/don't remember in the original games team rocket had killed a pokemon. also gengar is said to murder people. plus there's a few ghost types that drain life force

 

[Laniv]

I do think Greavard is adorable, even if it does make me think "Litwick, but dressed as Muttley for Halloween".

Speaking of Ghost types, based on what I've read, would you believe it if I said Greavard is one of the tamer ones in the spooky scale?

Looking at you, Drifloon and Yamask.

 

[fogbadge]

I do think Greavard is adorable, even if it does make me think "Litwick, but dressed as Muttley for Halloween".

Speaking of Ghost types, based on what I've read, would you believe it if I said Greavard is one of the tamer ones in the spooky scale?

Looking at you, Drifloon and Yamask.

why does everyone forget the bit where the dex says drifloon is to light to actually carry off children

 

[Laniv]

why does everyone forget the bit where the dex says drifloon is to light to actually carry off children

Drifloon might be too light, but Drifblim sure isn't.

Come to think of it, I just remembered the Phantump line is just an actual dead child. I doubt many Pokemon can top that.

 

[fogbadge]

Drifloon might be too light, but Drifblim sure isn't.

Come to think of it, I just remembered the Phantump line is just an actual dead child. I doubt many Pokemon can top that.

true but drifblim is said to be carried by the wind and people end up anywhere

well yamask could be a child as well

 

[Ivander]

Absorbing life force. IT KILLED THAT WOMAN IN LESS THAN A MINUTE! How are we supposed to expect the Smash fighters to survive a whole round?

Chandelure was in Smash 4 3DS and Pokken. Greavard is practically an "unknowingly dangerous to others" dog version of Litwick/Lampart/Chandelure. The Smash fighters will be just fine.

Come to think of it, I just remembered the Phantump line is just an actual dead child. I doubt many Pokemon can top that.

-Lampart, the mid-evo between Litwick and Chandelure, waits at hospitals for people who are about to die.
-Confagrigus literally kills people by trapping them inside it and wrapping them up as mummies.
-Hypno has kidnapped children.
-Primeape can become so angry to the point where it can die from being too angry.
-That's not even counting some of the Mega Evolution Dex entries, where most of them are in literal pain, may not even recognise their trainer and go frickin' berserk. Certainly a 120 from how they originally portrayed Mega Evolution as a power between the bond of the Pokemon and Trainer. The other 60 is that they did showcase that a Mega Evo can go berserk from the Mega Stone in the anime ahead of the Pokedex entries, showing that Mega Evo wasn't all sunshine and rainbows.

 

[Sucumbio]

The story of mimikyu gave me legit feels

 

[SPEN18]

It's so weird because the hyper-fantastical dex entries basically never manifest themselves in gameplay.
Maybe it's because they're so inconsequential gameplay-wise that the team just lets themselves go bonkers with them.

 

[MasterCheef]

Tbf, how many notably demanded non-Japanese (non-indie) characters even are there? Four? Five? It's not a highly populated space for how many characters actually exist. It's basically Chief, Doom Slayer, Crash, Rayman, and, if you're being generous, maybe Scorpion and Tracer.

Well there's no way _ Doom Slayer / Tracer _ would beat out _ Master Chief.
As far as Crash goes Sony has not been eager or interested to get its characters into Smash with the exception of Bayonetta because Nintendo funded it.
And for Rayman i just don't see a meaningful enough reason to put him on. He would not be worth the technical coding effort. Not to mention he wouled probably break the game by falling out of everyone's combos.

As for _ Ahri _ & _ Jinx _ i just don't think it is on people's radar. if it was i think there would be a lot more interest