Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

It’s already made tho

I don't think they mean the Star Fox Zero Switch port...

 

[Quillion]

I'm pretty sure NonSpecificGuy means the AW remake is literally already made.

 

[Ivander]

insert joke about 1-2 Switch in Smash here

RUMOR: Nintendo unsure what to do with 1-2 Switch sequel after disastrous play-testing https://t.co/6xGDg1F3Ws pic.twitter.com/4Z77k4QJuq

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) June 7, 2022

Nintendo being outright "unsure" and disastrous play testing is certainly not something you hear so casually. Looking at some of the rumors regarding this, they wanted to do something like the Jack Party Pack games, which on paper sounds like a good idea for a Nintendo game. But just hearing that supposedly, trusted Nintendo developers and executives were part of this play testing and that they are apparently so scared of this game ruining the Nintendo Software development team's image as a good software developer is another beast entirely.
Like it's one of those things you want to see it to believe it on what could absolutely frighten even the big Nintendo developers and executives, but at the same time, you don't really want to know either.

 

[Quillion]

Nintendo being outright "unsure" and disastrous play testing is certainly not something you hear so casually. Looking at some of the rumors regarding this, they wanted to do something like the Jack Party Pack games, which on paper sounds like a good idea for a Nintendo game. But just hearing that supposedly, trusted Nintendo developers and executives were part of this play testing and that they are apparently so scared of this game ruining the Nintendo Software development team's image as a good software developer is another beast entirely.
Like it's one of those things you want to see it to believe it on what could absolutely frighten even the big Nintendo developers and executives, but at the same time, you don't really want to know either.

Nintendo's execs must have started to take playtesting more seriously after BotW, which was seemingly playtested to the point of sacrificing actual development time. If playtesters don't find it fun in the slightest, maybe it's time to retool the project or scrap it entirely. If there's no time for playtesting, delay the game.

 

[Yamat08]

while I am a big fan of Xenosaga and its world and soundtrack too.

Yuki...... Kajiura!
That's all that needs to be said on that.

Fates was almost embarrassing to play at times. I could do without all the face petting and blowing on characters to cool them off when they get out of the shower. It was also really creepy that you could kiss and have children with your kid sisters, some of which were clearly very under age. I’m hoping that part of Fire Emblem never returns.

I'm not the biggest Fire Emblem expert, but wasn't marriage a much-requested feature people wanted to see return after only being in Genealogy of the Holy War (one of the series' most critically-acclaimed games, albeit still a Japan-only one).

 

[Quillion]

Yuki...... Kajiura!
That's all that needs to be said on that.


I'm not the biggest Fire Emblem expert, but wasn't marriage a much-requested feature people wanted to see return after only being in Genealogy of the Holy War (one of the series' most critically-acclaimed games, albeit still a Japan-only one).

I think most people, old-school elitists and newer casuals alike, are fine with marriage. The latter group probably won't play Fire Emblem without marriage like how modern Persona fans can't play Persona without Social Links.

Gengar84 just doesn't want them to do the really creepy, pandering aspects that Fates did.

 

[Shroob]

I think the bigger question is



Who was asking for a sequel to 1,2 Switch in the first place? It's not even a game you hear casuals talk about unlike things like Wii Sports or Wii Fit in the past. The game always felt dead on arrival

 

[fogbadge]

I think the bigger question is



Who was asking for a sequel to 1,2 Switch in the first place? It's not even a game you hear casuals talk about unlike things like Wii Sports or Wii Fit in the past. The game always felt dead on arrival

to be fair who was asking for video games to be invented in the first place?

 

[Yamat08]

to be fair who was asking for video games to be invented in the first place?

Not gonna lie, I really hate this kind of response to the phrase "Nobody asked for this" or "Who asked for this?" While it's technically true, it should be pretty obvious that whatever it is they're replying to is more effectively saying "this doesn't seem popular enough to be warranted." Like if I refer to Paper Mario Color Splash as "the Sticker Star sequel that nobody asked for", you know damn well what it is I mean.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't think they mean the Star Fox Zero Switch port...

I'm pretty sure NonSpecificGuy means the AW remake is literally already made.

I was referring to that 1-2-Switch Sequel. It’s made and practically finished. Nintendo just doesn’t know if they should release it or not because of how abysmal play test feed back was.

I am still waiting on that damn AW remake though. Been waiting for that franchise to come back for a decade and it’s the victim of some very poor timing.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I think the bigger question is



Who was asking for a sequel to 1,2 Switch in the first place? It's not even a game you hear casuals talk about unlike things like Wii Sports or Wii Fit in the past. The game always felt dead on arrival

Nobody, but it apparently made enough money to warrant one.

 

[fogbadge]

Not gonna lie, I really hate this kind of response to the phrase "Nobody asked for this" or "Who asked for this?" While it's technically true, it should be pretty obvious that whatever it is they're replying to is more effectively saying "this doesn't seem popular enough to be warranted." Like if I refer to Paper Mario Color Splash as "the Sticker Star sequel that nobody asked for", you know damn well what it is I mean.

well la di da, i hate people saying "nobody asked for this"

 

[Diddy Kong]

Fates was almost embarrassing to play at times. I could do without all the face petting and blowing on characters to cool them off when they get out of the shower. It was also really creepy that you could kiss and have children with your kid sisters, some of which were clearly very under age. I’m hoping that part of Fire Emblem never returns.

Apparently, the Japanese version was even worse. And they even wanted to take that further... Having recently played Fates, am all too well reminded of it's bad qualities. There was a lot of great stuff there too, for example the team mechanics and how easy it was to build support through this. There where also quite good characters in the game and cool classes.

 

[DarthEnderX]

On that note, do anyone think it's possible to have 2 Smash games on the Switch if that's the case or nah.

Nah. If we get any more Smash on Switch, it'll be the Mario Kart 8 thing where we just suddenly start getting DLC again years later.

 

[Quillion]

Nobody, but it apparently made enough money to warrant one.

The game sold 3 million by official statistics (thankfully VGChartz guys are linking sources now). Surprisingly that's more than ARMS, which is about 2.5M officially.

Even if 1,2 Switch sold less than ARMS though, I'd expect it to have more of a chance of getting a sequel, since 1,2 Switch was handled by the EPD team that specializes in low-key, small-scale experimental titles. Kinda like how WarioWare continues since it remains a very small-scale project to support its relatively low sales.

All of that said, I'd expect Ring Fit to be the top priority with getting a sequel as it was made by the same team as 1,2 Switch, and that game has outshone both 1,2 Switch and ARMS combined more than twice over.

 

[fogbadge]

Apparently, the Japanese version was even worse.

thats ones defiantly true for all jrpgs

maybe all games now that i think of it

 

[Quillion]

thats ones defiantly true for all jrpgs

maybe all games now that i think of it

What's your beef with JRPGs man?

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm beginning to wonder why some people even post in this thread.

 

[Quillion]

I'm beginning to wonder why some people even post in this thread.

I'd say you moderators do at least a good enough job that this forum isn't the wretched hives that are NeoGAF and ResetERA, much less the Gehenna that's GameFAQs.

 

[osby]

thats ones defiantly true for all jrpgs

maybe all games now that i think of it

Wait, did I get that right: Do you mean every localized video game is worse in Japanese???

 

[fogbadge]

What's your beef with JRPGs man?

nothing, why?

Wait, did I get that right: Do you mean every localized video game is worse in Japanese???

No, I’m exaggerating to make a point

 

[Quillion]

nothing, why?

You called FE Fates "standard JRPG" and JRPGs worse in Japanese.

 

[Gengar84]

I'd say you moderators do at least a good enough job that this forum isn't the wretched hives that are NeoGAF and ResetERA, much less the Gehenna that's GameFAQs.

The only two places I ever post are here and GameFAQS and I have to agree that this place seems a lot more friendly overall. There are some good people over there as well but there is so much toxicity that it can be hard to tolerate sometimes. That’s why I only post there on occasion when I have something in particular I want to talk about. This place feels more like a community than a bunch of trolls.

 

[fogbadge]

You called FE Fates "standard JRPG" and JRPGs worse in Japanese.

yeah sexualised teenagers and a plot only I seem to be able to follow. Seems to be in all of them, certainly in xenoblade and final fantasy and bravely and that one dragon quest I played even Pokémon has a tiny bit of it. Digimon cyber sleuth, Tokyo mirage sessions, trials of mana

 

[Gengar84]

yeah sexualised teenagers and a plot only I seem to be able to follow. Seems to be in all of them, certainly in xenoblade and final fantasy and bravely and that one dragon quest I played even Pokémon has a tiny bit of it. Digimon cyber sleuth, Tokyo mirage sessions, trials of mana

Final Fantasy doesn’t really have any of that other than FFX-2 from the games I’ve played. I don’t think Tales, Dragon Quest, Pokémon, or Persona are bad either. Games like Hyperdimension Neptunia, Fire Emblem Fates, and Xenoblade 2 are in a whole different category than most other JRPGs. I think it’s mostly the smaller games that have to resort to that type of thing to draw attention and sell (which is really unfortunate). It was a bit jarring to see Cyber Sleuth with that level of fanservice. I really liked the game but I always thought of Digimon as a family game like Pokémon.

 

[fogbadge]

Final Fantasy doesn’t really have any of that other than FFX-2 from the games I’ve played. I don’t think Tales, Dragon Quest, Pokémon, or Persona are bad either. Games like Hyperdimension Neptunia, Fire Emblem Fates, and Xenoblade 2 are in a whole different category than most other JRPGs. I think it’s mostly the smaller games that have to resort to that type of thing to draw attention and sell (which is really unfortunate). It was a bit jarring to see Cyber Sleuth with that level of fanservice. I really liked the game but I always thought of Digimon as a family game like Pokémon.

well it’s still kind of creepy regardless. Although in the case of Pokemon it was the fans who made it really creepy

 

[Gengar84]

well it’s still kind of creepy regardless. Although in the case of Pokemon it was the fans who made it really creepy

Oh, I definitely agree. I tend to stay away from games that rely on that kind of thing. The only JRPG series I really like that’s guilty of that throughout multiple games is Disgaea. The games are so fun that I can overlook it but it is still definitely a bit creepy.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

thats ones defiantly true for all jrpgs

maybe all games now that i think of it

Wow this is kind of a ****ed up thing to say that low key feels racist. I do not care if you say you are exaggerating to make a point, the unfortunate implications still stand. Are there some messed up JRPG things? Obviously yes, this thread had a Fates discourse for a reason. But saying that Fates is representative of Japanese gaming in general feels honestly kind of disgusting. You are choosing a purposefully bad example and saying that it is what all Japanese games are like in Japan. The way you wrote this makes it sound like you are stereotyping that the Japanese people are perverted.

Even if you were attempting to make a joke or exaggerate to make a point, you could spend an iota of thought on your post and consider that maybe it could be misconstrued that way.

 

[fogbadge]

Wow this is kind of a ****ed up thing to say that low key feels racist. I do not care if you say you are exaggerating to make a point, the unfortunate implications still stand. Are there some messed up JRPG things? Obviously yes, this thread had a Fates discourse for a reason. But saying that Fates is representative of Japanese gaming in general feels honestly kind of disgusting. You are choosing a purposefully bad example and saying that it is what all Japanese games are like in Japan. The way you wrote this makes it sound like you are stereotyping that the Japanese people are perverted.

Even if you were attempting to make a joke or exaggerate to make a point, you could spend an iota of thought on your post and consider that maybe it could be misconstrued that way.

Try not to enjoy telling me off to much

I thought it was pretty clear I was kidding

I also didn’t say all of Japan gaming I said all of gaming implying it’s a world wide problem. As seen in Shante from Canada and gta from the city I live closest too. So you either didn’t read the post properly of you reading between lines that weren’t there

 

[chocolatejr9]

Try not to enjoy telling me off to much

I thought it was pretty clear I was kidding

TBF, you DID list a bunch of examples...

Though I did read somewhere that the legal adult age in Japan is 15, which might explain a few things. Don't have a source, though, so don't quote me.

 

[fogbadge]

TBF, you DID list a bunch of examples...

Though I did read somewhere that the legal adult age in Japan is 15, which might explain a few things. Don't have a source, though, so don't quote me.

well there’s no reason a joke can’t lead to a serious discussion

im not sure it’ll come up again to quote you

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Try not to enjoy telling me off to much

I thought it was pretty clear I was kidding

Your response to someone telling you what you said is problematic should not be essentially "screw you i was kidding". You are essentially showing no remorse for the fact you did very strongly imply that all Japanese people are perverted, which is a disgusting regressive stereotype. It does not matter if you were joking, that does not make it ok to say something racist.

It is hard to even say that you were joking when you made multiple posts defending your regressive stereotype. Right now, there's really only two options to pull from how you defended your viewpoint so frequently. First is that you made a joke and refused to think through whether there were unfortunate implications. If this is the case, like I hope that it is, you could have either thought things through before typing two sentences without any punctuation or when called out for it accepted that you messed up. The alternative is that simply put you believe this, which right now given how hard you defended it is not out of the question.

What you said is problematic. The fact you are refusing to acknowledge it is also bad. When someone points out what you said is wrong or offensive, your first response should not be hostile. You need to be better.

TBF, you DID list a bunch of examples...

Though I did read somewhere that the legal adult age in Japan is 15, which might explain a few things. Don't have a source, though, so don't quote me.

You are thinking of Age of Consent, which is its whole own can of worms. Age of Consent is the age one can legally consent to those sorts of activities, which is usually only within a 3 year or so difference before they are 18. That being said, a 15-16 year old AoC is the norm in most of the world, so it does not say anything about Japan. It certainly does not feed into the regressive stereotype fog is parroting and defending at least.

 

[fogbadge]

Your response to someone telling you what you said is problematic should not be essentially "screw you i was kidding". You are essentially showing no remorse for the fact you did very strongly imply that all Japanese people are perverted, which is a disgusting regressive stereotype. It does not matter if you were joking, that does not make it ok to say something racist.

It is hard to even say that you were joking when you made multiple posts defending your regressive stereotype. Right now, there's really only two options to pull from how you defended your viewpoint so frequently. First is that you made a joke and refused to think through whether there were unfortunate implications. If this is the case, like I hope that it is, you could have either thought things through before typing two sentences without any punctuation or when called out for it accepted that you messed up. The alternative is that simply put you believe this, which right now given how hard you defended it is not out of the question.

What you said is problematic. The fact you are refusing to acknowledge it is also bad. When someone points out what you said is wrong or offensive, your first response should not be hostile. You need to be better.

You are thinking of Age of Consent, which is its whole own can of worms. Age of Consent is the age one can legally consent to those sorts of activities, which is usually only within a 3 year or so difference before they are 18. That being said, a 15-16 year old AoC is the norm in most of the world, so it does not say anything about Japan. It certainly does not feed into the regressive stereotype fog is parroting and defending at least.

no my response was to point out you clearly misread the post, let me copy paste it for you

I also didn’t say all of Japan gaming I said all of gaming implying it’s a world wide problem. As seen in Shante from Canada and gta from the city I live closest too. So you either didn’t read the post properly of you reading between lines that weren’t there

 

[TCT~Phantom]

no my response was to point out you clearly misread the post, let me copy paste it for you

I also didn’t say all of Japan gaming I said all of gaming implying it’s a world wide problem. As seen in Shante from Canada and gta from the city I live closest too. So you either didn’t read the post properly of you reading between lines that weren’t there

First off, you edited that part in. Maybe you were trying to clarify your views. Maybe you were trying to cover yourself. I can't say for certain.

From what I can see, prior to that you were posting a lot about defending a regressive stereotype. You say that it was not directed at Japan, but somehow every example you listed before your last minute edit was from Japan. You also have had a history of posting problematic stuff like that in the past, such as your sexist rant during RTC. So, given the information that I have, you will have to forgive me for saying I do not believe you. Right now, it seems like you are just covering for yourself after getting called out hard.

There also is the fact that despite saying some at best unintentionally problematic stuff and at worst outright racist stuff, you did not apologize once for what you said. Your response to being told what you said was problematic and racist was to get huffy with me rather than apologize. Even if you did not mean to be offensive, which given your previous posts in this discussion I find difficult to believe, that is the absolute worst possible response you could make. You could accept what you said was problematic, apologize like a rational human being, and attempt to do better. If I take your word at face value and assume it was an attempt at a joke, maybe in the future you could think these things through instead of posting two poorly written sentences without proper capitalization and punctuation. You can do better.

 

[Yamat08]

It was a bit jarring to see Cyber Sleuth with that level of fanservice. I really liked the game but I always thought of Digimon as a family game like Pokémon.

Actually, when it came to Cyber Sleuth and Digimon Adventure Tri., it seems like Digimon just removed the kiddie gloves completely and started aiming towards the audience who grew up with the original Adventure anime more than 15 years prior. Cyber Sleuth even makes this pretty apparent by having a CERO B rating in Japan (while Hacker's Memory upped the ante even further by having a CERO C rating). Frankly, I kinda respect this brash acknowledgement that the majority of their audience are young adults who stuck with the franchise for so long (though even back in the day, it could be argued that the Digimon anime took some hella big risks that weren't seen in most children-targeted shows of the time, including other anime). Though, they do still seem to be reeling in the younger crowd with things like Adventure:, Ghost Game, and maybe the newer card game (and even around the time of Cyber Sleuth and Tri., they had Appmon on the side).

 

[SPEN18]

I wouldn't want people to think Fates is representative of how Fire Emblem games typically are, let alone JRPGs in general.
Unfortunately, the questionable items in FE were at their peak in the 3DS days when the series was getting higher visibility; TH was a step in the right direction overall I think, so hopefully the series will continue to control its themes properly going forward.

Tbh I was pretty concerned after seeing the early TH trailers that the social aspects were going to completely consume the game, but they ended up doing alright with it, even if the Garreg Mach stuff gets repetitive after too much time with it.

--

I'm not the biggest Fire Emblem expert, but wasn't marriage a much-requested feature people wanted to see return after only being in Genealogy of the Holy War (one of the series' most critically-acclaimed games, albeit still a Japan-only one).

After Awakening? Yeah, many people (but not everyone) wanted the marriage mechanics to return, although there was debate on exactly how they would pull it off without doing something too similar to how FE4 or Awakening did it.
Pre-Awakening? I don't remember that much demand for a "marriage" mechanic like Awakening/Fates/TH have. Before Awakening, the only game to feature a playable avatar was the Japan-only New Mystery (there was also Mark in FE7 but Mark basically didn't interfere with the story except for like Lyn asking questions to the screen that the player could only imagine their answers to). So demand for "marrying the avatar" basically didn't exist pre-Awakening; for marriage between non-avatar characters, I think a lot of people liked and wanted to keep paired endings, that is, certain pairs of characters with max support level at the end of the game getting a special ending revealed which could possibly include marriage and/or having children. But demand for a more elaborate system where almost any pairing is possible I do not remember much demand for at all. Most of the demand IIRC was just for essentially a natural build on the systems from the GBA and Tellius games (from which people complained that SD took a step back), including making it easier and more clear how to build supports while still having a good number of interesting and accessible conversations between characters to flesh out relationships, lore, and story.
Edit: This should go without saying, but the above is just from my personal memory/perspective on how it was and I don't have any stats or specific sources.

 

[fogbadge]

First off, you edited that part in. Maybe you were trying to clarify your views. Maybe you were trying to cover yourself. I can't say for certain.

From what I can see, prior to that you were posting a lot about defending a regressive stereotype. You say that it was not directed at Japan, but somehow every example you listed before your last minute edit was from Japan. You also have had a history of posting problematic stuff like that in the past, such as your sexist rant during RTC. So, given the information that I have, you will have to forgive me for saying I do not believe you. Right now, it seems like you are just covering for yourself after getting called out hard.

There also is the fact that despite saying some at best unintentionally problematic stuff and at worst outright racist stuff, you did not apologize once for what you said. Your response to being told what you said was problematic and racist was to get huffy with me rather than apologize. Even if you did not mean to be offensive, which given your previous posts in this discussion I find difficult to believe, that is the absolute worst possible response you could make. You could accept what you said was problematic, apologize like a rational human being, and attempt to do better. If I take your word at face value and assume it was an attempt at a joke, maybe in the future you could think these things through instead of posting two poorly written sentences without proper capitalization and punctuation. You can do better.

well I edited it in before you responded to it so I’d say bare that in. You’ll notice the last edited time was before the time you posted

What defending of a regressive stereotype? we were talking about Jrpgs of course my examples were from Japan. That’s like being surprised that a list of Eaton graduates are all English. Seriously go back and look at the post where I make that list and you’ll see I’m responding to a post about jrpgs. What sexist rant? Funny sounds to me like you’re covering yourself for making a mistake

well you’re putting words into my mouth who wouldn’t get annoyed at that? Actually look at the post I didn’t say that. How dare you sit there on a high horse telling me to do better and apologise for something that did not happen. You made a mistake nothing changes that. And why on earth would I apologise to you when the last time I tried to you flat out ignored me?

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like I need to apologize. I think this whole fight started because of my complaints with Fates and Xenoblade 2. I definitely don’t think these games are representative of JRPGs in general but I can understand how someone might come to that conclusion if they were the only types of games they were exposed to and gave up on the genre as a result. I feel the same about how certain shows can give people the wrong impression on an entire genre if those are all they have seen.

 

[SPEN18]

I feel like I need to apologize.

Well, I wouldn't really consider you responsible for where others took the discussion but maybe now would be a good time for all of us to refocus on discussing Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

I feel like I need to apologize. I think this whole fight started because of my complaints with Fates and Xenoblade 2. I definitely don’t think these games are representative of JRPGs in general but I can understand how someone might come to that conclusion if they were the only types of games they were exposed to and gave up on the genre as a result. I feel the same about how certain shows can give people the wrong impression on an entire genre if those are all they have seen.

no you don’t need to apologise you had legitimate criticisms about those things