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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gengar84

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whom are you talking….. oh. Oh no. And to think I managed to block her out
I’m sorry lol.

Maybe I’m a bit hypocritical because I never really had any issue with characters like Lulu (FFX), Velvet Crowe (Tales), and Tharja (Fire Emblem), who also all wear revealing clothing. Those three are actually some of my favorite characters ever. I’m not sure exactly what the difference is but the Xenoblade 2 designs, Camilla (Fire Emblem), and Cia (Hyrule Warriors) kind of put me off.
 

fogbadge

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I’m sorry lol.

Maybe I’m a bit hypocritical because I never really had any issue with characters like Lulu (FFX), Velvet Crowe (Tales), and Tharja (Fire Emblem), who also all wear revealing clothing. Those three are actually some of my favorite characters ever. I’m not sure exactly what the difference is but the Xenoblade 2 designs, Camilla (Fire Emblem), and Cia (Hyrule Warriors) kind of put me off.
id say hypocrisy is one of the most human things there is. I’d don’t like sexualised characters either but I can be tolerant of them in the cases of most of XC2 and cia but not in the case of bayo and Shante. Though the former has other things.

though can’t say I’ve never noticed lulu being sexualised in the 50 times I’ve played ffx. The main thing I remember is an absurd number of belts
 
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Nabbitfan730

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I don't really understand why people are so up and arms about Xenoblade designs acting as if like previous games weren't like that
 
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Gengar84

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id day hypocrisy is one of the most human things there is. I’d don’t like sexualised characters either but I can be tolerant of them in the cases of most of XC2 and cia but not in the case of bayo and Shante. Though the former has other things.

though can’t say I’ve never noticed lulu being sexualised in the 50 times I’ve played ffx. The main thing I remember is an absurd number of belts
Yeah, Lulu’s design never bothered me either but I could understand if someone complained about being a bit revealing.

1654533278670.jpeg

Nothing really compared to some other characters but still.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
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Sep 28, 2020
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For the next Nintendo console, I think we will find out somewhere in 2023, why can't it, so much time has passed since the Switch was released, won't the new console be released next year? Especially for the games that will be released there, such as the series Super Mario, Donkey Kong, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Pokémon, Super Smash Bros. etc.
Last year the president of Nintendo said the Switch is in the middle of its life. It’s going to go on for another 5 years before the next console.
 

SPEN18

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If Mewtwo is so popular why haven't we gotten a Mewthree?

Checkmate Mewtwo defenders.
I know it's only a joke, but technically we did get Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Mewtwo Y, which are kinda like Mewthree and Mewfour.

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I've grown to hate discussing "popularity" as a factor in characters getting in Smash, even outside of Pokémon
In discussing likelihoods, popularity should be considered, as it has been stated many times to be a factor. It's not completely subjective, as you can make some baseline statements like "Krystal is a more popular Smash request than Peppy Hare" or even more meaningful ones like "K. Rool was more popular than Dixie in the ballot days," but when you get to things like "Krystal is a more popular Smash request than Ashley," I agree that it gets pretty difficult to confirm one way or another. But like just about anything else you just do the best you can to assess in spite of the imperfections.
In terms of "wants," yeah, I can see getting tired of popularity. Personally, I support what I support whether or not it happens to be popular, though you have to admit that popularity does feed into things like marketing and iconicness (with PKMN as a particular example of this).

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I wouldn't add Waluigi myself
I was pretty unsure about Waluigi to be fair; he barely made it on the list.

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I’ll admit that I’m biased on the subject but isn’t Gengar really high up there as far as most popular Pokémon go? I thought I remembered it winning some kind of big popularity poll as well at some point.
It was 10th in the big 2020 poll, 2nd for Kanto. Outside of that, its popularity in general has just really taken off in modern times, as has its marketing. Gengar is one of only a few PKMN to receive both Mega and Gigantamax forms (from a quick look, I think the only one besides the Kanto starters). Gengar appears consistently in spinoffs, even in ones like Pokken and Unite which have a more limited roster. It has merchandise, too. In-game it doesn't have a particular standout appearance like Garchomp or Gardevoir do, though it has a strangely high frequency in appearing on gym leader or elite four teams, for whatever that's worth. There's also the whole Lavender Town thing for its evo line I guess. But at this point it has a case as the most iconic gen 1 mon not in Smash outside of, like, Eevee (IMO it passed stuff like Snorlax and Dragonite, more arguably even Gyarados). That's how I look at Gengar.

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One more thing about the 2020 poll: even if you don't fully trust the results, it was an official poll and probably the largest one they've done, at least in recent memory, and so it's likely that the PKMN company, Game Freak, etc. would use the results to determine things like marketing, spinoff apearances, or special roles in the mainline games.

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Yes because if cyl was a factor marth would have been kicked out a long time ago in favor of long time iconic favorites like gatekeeper and veronica.

Using a poll that's heavily centred around a specific subset of a single audience means nothing for the general recognizability of those characters. I might as well dig out that poll that showed TF2 characters as the most-wanted for smash newcomers.
CYL has several quirks and issues, like the oddity of previous winners being removed in the later ones, certain characters doing way better than they would otherwise due to the poll being Heroes-centric, meme choices like Gatekeeper (which happens in just about any poll anyway), and naturally skewing towards the game most recently released at the time of the poll.

But while definitely flawed, I don't find it reduced to worthlessness. Especially the first poll was a decent snapshot of the FE fandom, and I can't recall ever having an actual large, official poll of FE fans prior to that. So not an end-all-be-all or an absolute ranking of characters' popularity, but one more judging tool to take with a grain of salt that we used to not have at all.

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I can't really think of a lot of non-starter, non-mascot Pokémon who've been marketed over the years. There's at least Gardevoir and Garchomp, while Lucario is kind of a pseudo-mascot thanks to being one of Gen 4's "ambassadors".
Well, if there's not that many of them then that just makes it easier to consolidate support for the select few!
There is a decent number, though, including Lucario, Gardevoir, Garchomp, Gengar, Eevee, and more.

Edit: I guess technically Eevee was a starter in Let's Go, but I'll leave it here anyway.
 
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Stratos

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Last year the president of Nintendo said the Switch is in the middle of its life. It’s going to go on for another 5 years before the next console.
There is a chance that was just PR speak and “middle” could have been not been meant literally.
Now what can I say and what can I write about this topic? Only that we can continue to watch the next games of our favorite series for the next five years on the Switch or wait to see what awaits us in 2023 or 2024.
 

ceterisparibus

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CYL has several quirks and issues, like the oddity of previous winners being removed in the later ones, certain characters doing way better than they would otherwise due to the poll being Heroes-centric, meme choices like Gatekeeper (which happens in just about any poll anyway), and naturally skewing towards the game most recently released at the time of the poll.

But while definitely flawed, I don't find it reduced to worthlessness. Especially the first poll was a decent snapshot of the FE fandom, and I can't recall ever having an actual large, official poll of FE fans prior to that. So not an end-all-be-all or an absolute ranking of characters' popularity, but one more judging tool to take with a grain of salt that we used to not have.
It's still a poll that is only centred around a specific group of people who happened to play FEH or have an interest. Its definitely not a significant group within the much bigger gaming audience - marth performed like **** in it, but so many more people know about him outside of said FEH group. Chrom also did worse than the likes of lyn or hector, but he got his slot by polling way better with outside polls like the ballot.

Plus this is a 2016 poll in an era of post-3h so its totally irrelevant. Do you want to bet edelgard's polling against lucina or lyn?
 

Gengar84

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I think I’m the only one that wants Lyn because Wendee Lee is my favorite voice actress and it would be cool to see her play a character in Smash. I’m a big Fire Emblem fan but I started with Ike’s games so Lyn’s were before my time. Her design in Warriors is really cool though.
 
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SPEN18

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It's still a poll that is only centred around a specific group of people who happened to play FEH or have an interest. Its definitely not a significant group within the much bigger gaming audience
I understand the issues with it, as I stated. My base argument is just that it's "not useless" and is a "decent snapshot." Note that I haven't done any calculations or analysis on how good the sample size is relative to the whole FE audience, but the results compare fairly favorably against what I would expect. I never meant to imply that it was reflective of a general gaming audience, but rather just an FE audience (and maybe I should correct that to "a dedicated FE audience"). And regardless of the strength of the sample size, it is an official poll that IS itself has paid active attention to.

Marth did fine on CYL 1, ranking sixth for males (and would be higher if you combine votes with the New Mystery version; indeed the vote splitting was one issue with CYL 1). It took him a while but he eventually became one of the four winners in a later poll.
Marth isn't in Smash primarily because of his popularity, anyway. He's a legacy character and a de facto mascot who is a rare character that still gets consistent marketing and attention from IS. He also is more recurring than almost any other FE character, and while his popularity is not necessarily at the absolute top tier with Lyn and Ike, he is pretty solid at worst in that department anyway.

As for the datedness, well, that's fair to an extent but I don't think the relative rankings of the older characters have changed that much since the first poll, other than maybe some natural decline for some Fateswakening characters. They have the newer CYLs also, though those exclude the previous winners and the later polls skew more and more towards the dedicated FEH audience that has stuck with the game well past launch. The first poll had the general FE audience very hyped about the concept of a series-wide crossover, and fans of the GBA, Tellius, etc. games came out strong alongside the naturally big performances of the more recent 3DS characters. But practically any poll has recency biases, circumstances, and other such things to consider.

As for myself, I think I've been one of the most dedicated Barst voters and so I am pretty irrelevant to the results at the top...

Edit: Also, I haven't looked at it thoroughly, but the later polls might also skew towards characters not already in FEH, though basically all the top vote-getters were in the game pretty early on IIRC.

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I think I’m the only one that wants Lyn because Wendee Lee is my favorite voice actress and it would be cool to see her play a character in Smash. Ima big Fire Emblem fan but I started with Ike’s games so Lyn’s were before my time. Her design in Warriors is really cool though.
Well, Lyn fans will probably take the support in just about any way they can get it...
 
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chocolatejr9

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they're referring to the other rabbit

the booba rabbit
Yeah, I was talking about Dahlia, I just forgot her name. Unfortunately I never got to see her story because I refused to use her due to her design. It is a shame if she was actually a great character otherwise and I missed out.
whom are you talking….. oh. Oh no. And to think I managed to block her out
Hot take: Dahlia's design isn't THAT bad. In fact, it kinda fits her personality: a Southern belle with a motherly side (at least, that's how I saw it).

Plus, have you SEEN her original design concept art? It could've been a LOT worse...
 

Gengar84

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Hot take: Dahlia's design isn't THAT bad. In fact, it kinda fits her personality: a Southern belle with a motherly side (at least, that's how I saw it).

Plus, have you SEEN her original design concept art? It could've been a LOT worse...
If that’s how she turned out, I don’t think I want to even look at her original design. Thankfully, so far, Xenoblade 3 seems to have addressed all of my complaints with design from what I’ve seen so far so I’m really looking forward to that game.
 

Quillion

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In discussing likelihoods, popularity should be considered, as it has been stated many times to be a factor. It's not completely subjective, as you can make some baseline statements like "Krystal is a more popular Smash request than Peppy Hare" or even more meaningful ones like "K. Rool was more popular than Dixie in the ballot days," but when you get to things like "Krystal is a more popular Smash request than Ashley," I agree that it gets pretty difficult to confirm one way or another. But like just about anything else you just do the best you can to assess in spite of the imperfections.
In terms of "wants," yeah, I can see getting tired of popularity. Personally, I support what I support whether or not it happens to be popular, though you have to admit that popularity does feed into things like marketing and iconicness (with PKMN as a particular example of this).
I'll discuss popularity to be sure, but only begrudgingly.

If that’s how she turned out, I don’t think I want to even look at her original design. Thankfully, so far, Xenoblade 3 seems to have addressed all of my complaints with design from what I’ve seen so far so I’m really looking forward to that game.
It seems that while XC2's skeleton crew development team let the commissioned artists have free reign, Monolith is taking a more active role in directing Saito's choices.
 

chocolatejr9

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If that’s how she turned out, I don’t think I want to even look at her original design. Thankfully, so far, Xenoblade 3 seems to have addressed all of my complaints with design from what I’ve seen so far so I’m really looking forward to that game.
You say that now, but wait until we get to the swimsuits...
 

fogbadge

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Kinda like the Pokemon "safe" hierarchy from a few pages FE has one too tho at this point I'm not sure what that looks like.
hmm id say all 8 are safe cause sakurai

Hot take: Dahlia's design isn't THAT bad. In fact, it kinda fits her personality: a Southern belle with a motherly side (at least, that's how I saw it).

Plus, have you SEEN her original design concept art? It could've been a LOT worse...
no and no
 

Gengar84

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My hot take is that I’d like for Smash’s Mythra design to be her default going forward. I just think it’s a big improvement overall. Beyond the obvious toning down of the fanservice, I think the black undershirt and leggings look really good with the rest of her outfit.
 

Diddy Kong

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XB2 was a great game, yet the sexualization of Pyra and Mythra went a bit too far at times. It was just there, without any good reasons. The battle mechanics took me a while to figure out as well, with the blade element combo's and all I mean. I overall felt the remake of XB1 was a better game, and those are the only XenoBlade games I played. Looking forward to 3 too.

Also, all the Pokemon talk made me realize Pokemon Showdown is a thing. And am having a blast with it. Am also using Garchomp a ton in it. Am also pleased with you all that you guys all seem to agree that the newest promotional Pokemon and newest Fire Emblem Lord aren't exitable choices. I think Sakurai realized this since Smash 4, and thus opted for Robin. With Corrin, he made sure the character felt different (and Corrin certainly did), and also explains his design choice with Byleth, and why he went for Incineroar.

This is why I kinda hope we get Fire Emblem newcomers as say, Lyn or Dimitri, or even Edelgard. Dimitri and Edelgard could be used specifically to free up Byleth's moveset from Aemir and Areadbahr and base their respective owners around these moves. The rivalry between these two, Dimitri and Edelgard, is also somewhat of a central point of Three Houses, and there's already three Awakening characters, so why not?
 

dream1ng

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The XC2 character designs are just garish and like self-parody of overly anime designs without the intentional irony. Some are better than others, but many really missed the mark. And not even due to the clumsy sexualization, though for some characters that also is a little out of hand.

The XC3 designs are... better... but they're still not great. They seem... ok. It's still verging on unintentional self-parody imo, but it's a step in a better direction. Honestly world design is Monolith's strong suit, not character design. Some of the guest artists they had for the blades last game came up with better stuff than a lot of the main cast.
 

Gengar84

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XB2 was a great game, yet the sexualization of Pyra and Mythra went a bit too far at times. It was just there, without any good reasons. The battle mechanics took me a while to figure out as well, with the blade element combo's and all I mean. I overall felt the remake of XB1 was a better game, and those are the only XenoBlade games I played. Looking forward to 3 too.

Also, all the Pokemon talk made me realize Pokemon Showdown is a thing. And am having a blast with it. Am also using Garchomp a ton in it. Am also pleased with you all that you guys all seem to agree that the newest promotional Pokemon and newest Fire Emblem Lord aren't exitable choices. I think Sakurai realized this since Smash 4, and thus opted for Robin. With Corrin, he made sure the character felt different (and Corrin certainly did), and also explains his design choice with Byleth, and why he went for Incineroar.

This is why I kinda hope we get Fire Emblem newcomers as say, Lyn or Dimitri, or even Edelgard. Dimitri and Edelgard could be used specifically to free up Byleth's moveset from Aemir and Areadbahr and base their respective owners around these moves. The rivalry between these two, Dimitri and Edelgard, is also somewhat of a central point of Three Houses, and there's already three Awakening characters, so why not?
Yeah, I’m mostly against the idea of choosing the latest starter or lord just because they feel obligated to. If they happen to be one of my favorites, I’ll still support them but not due to the fact that they’re starters or lords. The chances that either will end up among my favorites are pretty low judging by past games but you never know.
 

SPEN18

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The main problem I had with the XB2 designs was just the sexualization. The ones that weren't sexualized were mostly fine. While characters like Rex usually didn't bother me, I can absolutely see how they could've rubbed certain people the wrong way, especially those who wanted a more take-myself-seriously vibe from the story.
 

Diddy Kong

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Yeah, I’m mostly against the idea of choosing the latest starter or lord just because they feel obligated to. If they happen to be one of my favorites, I’ll still support them but not due to the fact that they’re starters or lords. The chances that either will end up among my favorites are pretty low judging by past games but you never know.
I actually actively supported Ike way back, didn't think he'd come out as a slower type of swordsman, but still play him often. I also supported Byleth, but they also didn't quite turn out the way I liked. Which is also why I support a moveset change for them, a lowkey excuse to root for Dimitri especially who's totally deemed redundant cause of Byleth's moveset using his weapon.

Anyway, I also thought Byleth was a cool fighter in their unique class as Enlightened One, and the Sword of the Creator has cool mechanics too, even if the Belmonts already did the ranged weapon stuff. But I expect them to be gone next game, so that could potentially lead to Byleth having a canon moveset, which I would love. I pictured Byleth as a perfect mix of zoning and CQC combat, with the Sword of the Creator and magic spells as zoning tools, and brawling (with gauntlets even maybe) as an answer for up close. But alas. It would cover their speed problem a little better I'd feel, and no other Fire Emblem Lord before was actually actively brawling before Byleth, it was a whole new weapon type they could've utilized better. Yeah, sure, Ike does some punching and kicking for his Jab attack, but that's it. Byleth could've done more.
 

Yamat08

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Yes, I loved the first Pokémon Rumble game. I don’t like that they ruined it by turning it into a micro transaction game where it forces you to wait between rounds unless you pay money. I wish they’d have just continued making them in the style of the original game.
I didn't play that newer mobile game, but I thought the free-to-play 3DS game was actually a rare example of monetization done right. The basic idea is that there's an upper limit to the number of gems you can buy, and once you reach it, you can't buy any more, but you're given a dispenser that gives you a good amount of gems regularly AND the cost of entering each world is reduced significantly. It's not quite 100% as free-reign as a retail game, but you effectively make it come pretty close to being one (and they actually did release a physical retail version of it later, I guess with all the premium content already included). I haven't played it, but I heard the free-to-play Kirby game has something similar.
 
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Nabbitfan730

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Last year the president of Nintendo said the Switch is in the middle of its life. It’s going to go on for another 5 years before the next console.
On that note, do anyone think it's possible to have 2 Smash games on the Switch if that's the case or nah.

Cuz you'll never know the possibilities
 

Diddy Kong

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On that note, do anyone think it's possible to have 2 Smash games on the Switch if that's the case or nah.

Cuz you'll never know the possibilities
No not for the Switch, but for the next console yes.

One of the Smash games could be the "reboot Smash" and the other "Ultimate DX".
 

Quillion

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NGL, Fire Emblem lords is an overplayed and uninteresting trend (like Pokémon starters), but Fire Emblem avatars is probably even worse, especially not-a-Persona-protagonist Byleth.
 

Diddy Kong

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NGL, Fire Emblem lords is an overplayed and uninteresting trend (like Pokémon starters), but Fire Emblem avatars is probably even worse, especially not-a-Persona-protagonist Byleth.
Is Byleth so much a Persona character then? I never played those games, never owned a PlayStation. In terms of abilities, yeah Byleth was cool, their backstory too. But I can't quite get why they went from very interactive Avatar main characters as Robin and Corrin to a totally stoic Byleth. Not even Chris from FE11 was like this, they also had a clear set personality and talked (what was also cool is that Chris didn't took the spotlight from Marth, but that's another topic).
 

Gengar84

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I didn't play that newer mobile game, but I thought the free-to-play 3DS game was actually a rare example of monetization done right. The basic idea is that there's an upper limit to the number of gems you can buy, and once you reach it, you can't buy any more, but you're given a dispenser that gives you a good amount of gems regularly AND the cost of entering each world is reduced significantly. It's not quite 100% as free-reign as a retail game, but you effectively make it come pretty close to being one (and they actually did release a physical retail version of it later, I guess with all the premium content already included). I haven't played it, but I heard the free-to-play Kirby game has something similar.
I played the 3DS game and it was fun for about an hour until the timer kicked in. I’m the type of person who will never spend any amount of money on games like that so I just stopped playing altogether at that point. Even if it might have been fair compared to other similar games, those types of games just aren’t my thing.
 

Ivander

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On that note, do anyone think it's possible to have 2 Smash games on the Switch if that's the case or nah.

Cuz you'll never know the possibilities
Nah. I can't see two Smash games happening for one system, especially for one that has one already and in the middle of it's lifespan. Like if they are doing DLC for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe rather than do a 2nd Mario Kart on the same system, I can't see them doing a 2nd Smash game on the same system.
Not even Chris from FE11 was like this, they also had a clear set personality and talked (what was also cool is that Chris didn't took the spotlight from Marth, but that's another topic).
I think the issue was less that Chris didn't take the spotlight from Marth, but did from some other characters, the most notable one being Jagen.

Also, I think the Persona comparison is due to Byleth being more silent and choice-oriented compared to the other Avatars, much like the Persona 3/4/5 Protags during their "Support" parts where choosing one choice gives more "points" compared to the other choice. But it's still a silly comparison considering so many other games with choices and "supports" do the same thing, whether it'd be dating sims, Choose your own Adventure games like Telltale games, or even other RPGs like Xenoblade and Mass Effect.
 
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dream1ng

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On that note, do anyone think it's possible to have 2 Smash games on the Switch if that's the case or nah.

Cuz you'll never know the possibilities
If their schedule is such that they, for whatever reason, won't be able to get a new Smash on the system within the first couple years, they may throw a port out there to satiate the crowd and move units in the meantime. Whether that's Ultimate w/DLC, Ultimate Deluxe, or even the fabled-but-probably-unlikely Melee HD, who knows.

But if they intend to have a new Smash ready in the system's first couple years, as they have... well, since Melee (3DS aside), then no, I doubt we get two.
 
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Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Speaking of xenonblade I would actually much prefer if we get Xenosaga and Xenogears rep in smash instead of making the focus on Xeno reps just being Xenonblade I know it would count as 3rd party but I think Monolith Soft could help in including these contents from Namco and Square-Enix.

Also there is something I want to say regarding Namco I kinda find it strange that despite them developing 2 smash games they only have 2 playable characters I feel like they deserve more reps for their big contribution on the smash series not to mention Namco does have a library of game franchises that would be amazing to represent being 2% of the entire smash roster isn’t good enough for Namco I would much rather raise it to 5% after sm4sh like if I was Sakurai i would have let 2 Namco reps in sm4sh and by ultimate it would have 2 or 3 extra Namco reps
 
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Diddy Kong

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I think the issue was less that Chris didn't take the spotlight from Marth, but did from some other characters, the most notable one being Jagen.
That part yeah, and everyone seemed to praise them all the time. And am wording that nicely.

Also, I think the Persona comparison is due to Byleth being more silent and choice-oriented compared to the other Avatars, much like the Persona 3/4/5 Protags during their "Support" parts where choosing one choice gives more "points" compared to the other choice. But it's still a silly comparison considering so many other games with choices and "supports" do the same thing, whether it'd be dating sims, Choose your own Adventure games like Telltale games, or even other RPGs like Xenoblade and Mass Effect.
But I don't get it, they could've done all of that, and still give Byleth actual lines they'd talk. It's been done before. Fire Emblem had great interactive Avatars with their own personality as Robin and Corrin (even if Corrin didn't always make sense, especially in Conquest).

I do hope they learn from it next game. The way they're handling Byleth in Three Hopes could also give them a deeper personality, as they're playing well with their intimidation factor. That's one thing they did quite right in Three Houses, but at the same time "Professor" was everyone's super hero and savior too, which makes dialogue even a bigger omission...
 

TCT~Phantom

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TCT~Phantom
Am also pleased with you all that you guys all seem to agree that the newest promotional Pokemon and newest Fire Emblem Lord aren't excitable choices. I think Sakurai realized this since Smash 4, and thus opted for Robin. With Corrin, he made sure the character felt different (and Corrin certainly did), and also explains his design choice with Byleth, and why he went for Incineroar.
Honestly, this does seem to be a good bit of rewriting history to me.

While nowadays it is easy to just say "FE Bad", during Smash 4 that was not the case. Awakening was a popular game and people were reasonably excited for a new Fire Emblem rep. Chrom was the expected choice obviously, but there were loud fandoms for both Robin and Lucina. Chrom certainly got some hate for being the least exciting of the three picks, but he still had a large fanbase at the end of the day. To be honest, all three of the main characters of Awakening did. Back then I was an ardent Robin supporter, and they were one of my most wanted characters for the game. Sure, a small portion of Robin's positive reception was the killing of the Gematsu leak, but a large portion of it was due to Robin being a character that was seen as a great pick. It is so easy to just look at things now and just assume that every Fire Emblem character got met with the fatigued reception that Corrin got, but in 2014 that was not the case. Robin was one of the most well received picks for Fire Emblem back then. Fire Emblem fatigue and time might both have dulled that memory, but Fire Emblem was not always the pariah that it is now.

I get what you are trying to say. The token new Fire Emblem and token new Pokemon will not always be huge fan favorites. Sure, we could get a Robin or Greninja, but we could also get a Corrin or Incineroar. As such, Sakurai has done what he can to find a unique playstyle within the new games rather than just choosing a shiny new face to promote. On paper, sure, I can understand that to an extent. But it ignores a lot of fan demand that has happened within these niches even. There was a ton of discussion about which Alola pokemon would rep Gen 7 in Smash. Decidueye, Incineroar, Lycanroc, Mimikyu, heck even Tapu Koko had its fans. It is easy to just assume that promotional reps like Byleth or Incineroar are going to be controversial or unpopular, but there is a lot more in play than just that. Not only are they not inherently unpopular, they also can generate a sizeable amount of support. Robin and Chrom both had large fanbases in Smash 4; Chrom's was big enough that he got in Ultimate. While Incineroar was not the most popular of the Gen 7 reps, it still had its fans at the end of the day.

Promotional picks will always leave some people upset. There will always be some people who will throw a fit because an "unworthy" character managed to slip into Smash instead of their most wanted dream pick. But it is far from as black and white as you put it where Sakurai knows that these picks are not going to be fan favorites so he does something creative.

But I don't get it, they could've done all of that, and still give Byleth actual lines they'd talk. It's been done before. Fire Emblem had great interactive Avatars with their own personality as Robin and Corrin (even if Corrin didn't always make sense, especially in Conquest).

I do hope they learn from it next game. The way they're handling Byleth in Three Hopes could also give them a deeper personality, as they're playing well with their intimidation factor. That's one thing they did quite right in Three Houses, but at the same time "Professor" was everyone's super hero and savior too, which makes dialogue even a bigger omission...
TLDR: They overreacted to Fates criticism.

Long version, Byleth basically being a silent protagonist was a direct response to criticism from Fates. People complained in great detail about how Corrin and their choices did not make sense. People complained that it was not immersive to have someone as the main character that was supposedly them make these terrible choices. As a result, the development team over corrected. Byelth was made a silent, static figure so that you would not see the same issues that they had with Corrin. Now, this obviously caused even more issues, such as Byleth's supports feeling very one sided or make it so Byleth did not feel like much of a character in and of themself, but when you see it as a course correction too far the other way from Fates it makes more sense. To be honest, plenty of choices in designing Three Houses can be attributed to Fates and its criticism. Some, like the greater inclusion of gay, lesbian, and bisexual supports, a much more competent sense of world building, or the lack of a messily written golden route, are great lessons to take from Fates and its criticisms. Others, like Byelth's characterization, or rather lack thereof, go too far in the other direction.

Speaking of xenonblade I would actually much prefer if we get Xenosaga and Xenogears rep in smash instead of making the focus on Xeno reps just being Xenonblade I know it would count as 3rd party but I think Monolith Soft could help in including these contents from Namco and Square-Enix.

Also there is something I want to say regarding Namco I kinda find it strange that despite them developing 2 smash games they only have 2 playable characters I feel like they deserve more reps for their big contribution on the smash series not to mention Namco does have a library of game franchises that would be amazing to represent being 2% of the entire smash roster isn’t good enough for Namco I would much rather raise it to 5% after sm4sh like if I was Sakurai i would have let 2 Namco reps in sm4sh and by ultimate it would have 2 or 3 extra Namco reps
I love Xenogears and Xenosaga, but do not press your luck on getting either of them in smash under the Xenoblade series. Maybe you could get KOS MOS as a Xenosaga character, but both Xenogears and Xenosaga are sadly kind of dead right now. Xenosaga will probably get a re release at some point similar to how Chrono Chross did, but the Xenogears series is right now dormant. On the other hand, Xenosaga does have the potential to see its trilogy get a remaster, but right now the odds of that happening does not seem great sadly. Its a shame. Xenogears is one of my favorite PS1 games and favorite games of all time, while I am a big fan of Xenosaga and its world and soundtrack too.

As for Namco not having that much representation, there is always next game. Tales is one of the bigger omissions from Smash right now and Sakurai at least knows that Lloyd is a very popular request. There are other huge games in the series Smash could look into such as Arise and Vesperia. If you asked me to try to guess the next Namco rep in Smash, I would go with something from Tales easily.
 

SPEN18

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While nowadays it is easy to just say "FE Bad", during Smash 4 that was not the case.
Yes, in the leadup to the Robin/Lucina reveal I don't remember much hate for FE. But I still think featuring Lucina in the trailer was a mistake, despite me seeing how, from their perspective, it would've seemed like a good idea. They should have either come up with the Echo branding back then or maybe left Lucina as a secret character or alt costume or something, because after the reveal a lot of people just saw "4 FE characters on the CSS" and the grumblings started. The rep count after the Robin/Lucina reveal was absolutely seen as an issue by many of the people rooting for more reps from series like DK, Kirby, or Metroid, which all ended up with smaller rep counts than FE in base 4. It's easy to whitewash the rep count complaints now because so many people have given up on them, but back then it was seen as a legitimate problem. I view this trailer as the essential origin of the FE hate in Smash, despite that hate not blowing up until later.

. There was a ton of discussion about which Alola pokemon would rep Gen 7 in Smash
Yes, because people basically all expected it to happen, that is, expected a mon from Alola specifically to happen, and were speculating on which one (again, from Alola specifically) they either wanted or thought was likely.
Popularity and marketing for nearly all of the Alola picks has died down precipitously, not just for Smash speculators but also for general PKMN or Nintendo fans, except maybe for Mimikyu and the Decidueye line. "Had their fans" can be applied to basically any character under the sun, and does nothing to justify restricting the pick to only things from Alola. Promo characters are generally not inherently unpopular, no, but that was never claimed and isn't one of the primary drivers for their detractors.
 
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dream1ng

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The grumblings about how much FE there was did start after the Lucina/Robin trailer, but it didn't really become widespread and hostile until Corrin. Before that, Kid Icarus was receiving more backlash for that perceived overrepresentation and people not liking Dark Pit. For FE, the fact that Roy interceded along the way didn't help the eventual fallout, but because he was a popular vet, all he did was sort of build the pressure leading to the later culmination rather than receive any blowback himself.
 
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