Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SuperSonicFlyer]

That’s basically the reason why I want them both (along with Waluigi) to be released from their AT prisons and join the battle next game.

I think Takamaru simply got outprioritized by Everyone is Here and the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, and Inkling. I'm willing to bet the same thing happened with Isaac.

I mean I could see this maaaaybe happening with Isaac (though even though I think he did well on the Ballot and that's why Golden Sun got all that stuff, I don't know that Ultimate was ever really in the cards for him with how limited the newcomers would've been from the start), but Takamaru was an Assist Trophy in Smash 4 with basically no presence in one of Smash's major markets at all outside of essentially a cameo in Nintendo Land (I don't think he even showed up, it was just labeled a Murasame Castle thing) and a 3DS VC release in 2014.

Essentially if we're thinking Waluigi may have been brought down by being an Assist Trophy, I can only imagine how being an Assist Trophy AND basically being nonexistent in the West would've affected Takamaru on the Ballot. It'd be like using your Ballot vote to vote for Prince Sable, but a little less so.

I see what you mean. In fact, while I would hate to bring him up again, but based on what was said here, I would not be surprised if Everyone is Here in Ultimate out-prioritized Geno too, considering he had a spirit along with Mallow in Ultimate.

I mean, even though Geno has fan demand and that there is that remake of Super Mario RPG, and while I think he did at least decently on the ballot some, Geno is not the most important character in gaming, and while Sakurai has wanted him in the past, he may know he is not that important compared to others like King K. Rool or Ridley or the Castlevania characters; both in terms of popularity and actual importance, if I am not mistaken.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I'm surprised people don't talk about double dragon or Kunio when it comes to beat em up characters

I talk about them a lot. They're actually among my MW characters, especially when it comes to beat'em up characters.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ah, that’s confusing terminology on Sakurai’s part since a surprise character can mean different things. They probably should have went with a different word. So maybe something like Rintaro Okabe or Kurisu Makise from Steins;Gate would be closer since neither are really fighters. Phoenix Wright probably would have been before MvC. In that case, would Villager and Isabelle count as surprise fighters too since neither fights in their home series?

Being fair, there likely might be a very specific term that Sakurai used but has been lost in translation for a generic "surprise character"

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Well, I wish to say something else about "Everyone is Here" out-prioritizing characters. Keep in mind that like what TheFirstPoppyBro kinda pointed out, everyone has different reasons for not being playable. I won't be talking about just Geno here, but other characters, mainly Assist Trophies, like Waluigi and Isaac.

Now, in terms of Assist Trophy characters, they can be playable the following game, but apparently, that takes a lot of work, even though the character's model is already in the game. In fact, of all Assist Trophy characters there from the game before, which was Smash 4, the only one added as a playable character in Ultimate was the echo of Samus in her Power Suit, which was Dark Samus. Take note, though, that she was an echo of Samus. She did not have an original moveset like Little Mac had after Brawl going into Smash 4. "Everyone is Here" did take a lot of work and resources that left little time for development for anything else. In fact, I'd say that is why we did not get characters like Waluigi and other Assist Trophy characters, let alone others like Geno, who was a Spirit but could have had his own moveset, due to how much work it seems to take to turn Assist Trophy characters into playable characters in a following game, especially ones with original movesets. I mean, Dark Samus had her own moves and abilities, but she was made an echo character, which means they likely did not have time to give her a more original moveset, due to "Everyone is Here".

Do you all see what I mean?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If I were to define what a "surprise character" is, it would simply be someone that the general audience would never EVER expect to see a moveset made for. And that kind of definition does match with most of the people who are or presumed to be the surprise characters of their games.

• Outside of very specific games like Donkey Kong, the Game & Watch games do not have any predefined character so the idea of some kind of conglomerate who references various games came completely out of left field. In a way, Mr. Game & Watch is effectively a Smash OC.
• R.O.B. is a NES peripheral. The idea of him getting a fully realized moveset was not something anyone expected.
• Duck Hunt was explicitly stated to be a surprise character and, well, the concept behind everything is certainly wacky and unpredictable. You play as the dog and a duck in cooperation, something that never happens in Duck Hunt, and there's also the invisible NES Zapper hunter as well as references to both Hoogan's Alley and Wild Gunman. Even for those who expected Duck Hunt Dog, I doubt the idea of being the representative of multiple Zapper games or the duck coming along for the ride as a friend were expected.
• Piranha Plant needs no description.

Wii Fit Trainer isn't confirmed to be a surprise character nor is she confirmed to be the opposite, but a moveset themed entirely around the exercise drills she'd make you do is very inspired and creative either way. I personally see her more as a representative of the Wii series, being one of the few actual characters from it who isn't just a Mii, since new franchises tend to get some spots in Smash rosters since Brawl. Being surprising was not the intent.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Retro inclusions where common, but wasn't it only in Melee where they outrightly told they where looking for such an inclusion with Ice Climbers and Mr.Game and Watch? I still think those choices are... curious. Especially considering what else it was favored above at that exact given time.

Pit was also a popular request but most likely very much on the developers minds back in Melee. Just check the Pit Melee trophy.

View attachment 399807

They likely wanted to include him but couldn't make the flying part work. That's my take.

Before Brawl was even confirmed, Pit was expected by everyone. Pit, Wario, Diddy, Meta Knight and King Dedede. That where the most safest bets to basically everyone.

While still speculation, Pit probably would have been picked or at least an option in Melee if it wasn't for the Ice Climbers being chosen as the NES rep.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Now, in terms of Assist Trophy characters, they can be playable the following game, but apparently, that takes a lot of work, even though the character's model is already in the game. In fact, of all Assist Trophy characters there from the game before, which was Smash 4, the only one added as a playable character in Ultimate was the echo of Samus in her Power Suit, which was Dark Samus. Take note, though, that she was an echo of Samus. She did not have an original moveset like Little Mac had after Brawl going into Smash 4. "Everyone is Here" did take a lot of work and resources that left little time for development for anything else. In fact, I'd say that is why we did not get characters like Waluigi and other Assist Trophy characters, let alone others like Geno, who was a Spirit but could have had his own moveset, due to how much work it seems to take to turn Assist Trophy characters into playable characters in a following game, especially ones with original movesets. I mean, Dark Samus had her own moves and abilities, but she was made an echo character, which means they likely did not have time to give her a more original moveset, due to "Everyone is Here".

I get what you mean here but there's also Isabelle, though even she's something of a semi-clone? She probably would've been playable anyway considering how big she became, but yeah lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I get what you mean here but there's also Isabelle, though even she's something of a semi-clone? She probably would've been playable anyway considering how big she became, but yeah lol

Even without "Everyone is Here", she likely would've been a semi-clone anyway.

Animal Crossing isn't exactly the deepest game in terms of mechanics so any reps from that series would probably share a lot of stuff.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm surprised people don't talk about double dragon or Kunio when it comes to beat em up characters

While Kunio/River City I think is a case where it's prominence to Western fans didn't raise until the last decade, I will say Double Dragon is one of the oddest franchises as far as fan knowledge vs fan passion. So many know about it, fans in the genre are aware of how critical the IP was to the beat em ups, and many casual gamers could at least name Billy and Jimmy.

However, because certain rivals in the 16-bit generation got so beloved so quickly (Streets of Rage, Final Fight, numerous licensed games) I think there's many people that almost unconsciously consider it a somewhat superannuated series that is historically important but lacks the sizzle that later franchises had (often because they build on what Double Dragon did). Anecdotal example, but Streets of Rage Remake was a long-time project with years of work by numerous people that's still getting mods and work done even now. If there's a Double Dragon equivalent, it doesn't appear to have gotten the same attention as the SoR one has.

It also doesn't help that there hasn't quite been the universally liked (hyperbole, but you get what I mean) DD sequel like a Streets of Rage 4 or TMNT Shredder's Revenge to really get attention. It's had follow-ups that were solid enough, just not enough to make that same kind of splash. And even the Final Fight trilogy which hasn't gotten any sequels in decades still has the Street Fighter connection to give it some isolated relevance, however small that it is.

It might because 16-bit beat em up nostalgia outweighs the 8-bit variety, but there's an almost Lara Croft like element to Double Dragon where most would respect it being in Smash... but not nearly as many are really clamoring for it.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Even without "Everyone is Here", she likely would've been a semi-clone anyway.

Animal Crossing isn't exactly the deepest game in terms of mechanics so any reps from that series would probably share a lot of stuff.

Yeah I mostly just meant in terms of Dark Samus being the only Assist Trophy upgrade from Smash 4 lol

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

I get what you mean here but there's also Isabelle, though even she's something of a semi-clone? lol

OH SNAP! I forgot about her! Still, I'd bet that she was easier to work with than those who would have had original movesets if they got into the game, since she was a semi-clone. I mean, whether it was an echo or a semiclone, either without fully original movesets, my point was that with Everyone is Here, not many characters could get in that had original movesets, which Geno, Waluigi and Issac, among others, would have had. There was just apparently so little time to make more characters with more original movesets, so some characters were out-prioritized by "Everyone is Here". Not many Assist Trophies and, while not as applicable, Spirits, were able to be included without getting their completely own moveset, as it seems.

 

[SharkLord]

I'd like Halberd to remain a series staple too, I guess it depends how many stages next game has in the first place but this has always been a very quintessential one to me - and citing it as Meta Knight's defacto home stage is a good justification. I think I'd bring one of Dream Land or Fountain of Dreams back over Green Greens personally, but otherwise it's a pretty nice lineup. Alivel Mall is my choice for a Forgotten Land stage also.

Maybe a RTDL stage instead of Triple Deluxe also? Lor Starcutter or Nutty Noon would be solid picks, but I'm cool with Royal Road.

Like Peridot mentioned, the "objective" choice would be Another Dimension. It's a major location in RtDL and has been a consistently recurring location; having a campaign dedicated to it in Kirby: Star Allies, being the main location of Magolor's Extra Mode in RtDL DX, and popping up a fair bit in spinoffs

 

[Dukefire]

Alright, I'll ask about certain indie characters on what their chances are for the next possible game.

Starting with...Shovel Knight as the flagship for Yacht Club Games. What are his chances currently?

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Is there any character you'd like to see in the game, but not necessarily in a playable capacity? Be it as a Mii Costume or Assist Trophy.

King Mickey SwordFighter Costume
Organization 13 Costume
Omochao Assist Trophy
Mallow Assist Trophy
Pauline Mii Costume
All Robot Masters as Costumes

Also the ability to change colors with costumes please

 

[Arcanir]

Yeah, that's why we try to predict it but outside of edge cases like Arcanir being a long running Duck Hunt Dog supporter in the Smash 4 spec days, we're usually wrong lmao

A bit of a correction, but that was actually Arcadenik . I enjoy Duck Hunt, but they were the ones championing them during the Smash 4 days.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

A bit of a correction, but that was actually Arcadenik . I enjoy Duck Hunt, but they were the ones championing them during the Smash 4 days.

Dang, I got my Arcas mixed up...

Alright, I'll ask about certain indie characters on what their chances are for the next possible game.

Starting with...Shovel Knight as the flagship for Yacht Club Games. What are his chances currently?
View attachment 399814

I feel like Shovel Knight has all right odds? Treasure Trove came out on the Switch in like 2019 and he's had Pocket Dungeon and Shovel Knight Dig since then, plus Yacht Club has a relationship with Nintendo via Nintendo publishing Shovel Knight in JP, making amiibo for it, and the Assist Trophy in Ultimate, but it really does feel like he's kinda coasting off of one game from a decade ago lol

Not that I think that really affects his chances since it's more vibes based than factually correct, but for me personally I wish he had a little more under his belt, you know?

 

[BrawlX10]

A surprise 3rd party character would be something like a Mana character, Claptrap from Boderlands, a MySim, a Fantasy Life character, a Zenless Zone Zero character, Pathfinder from Apex Legends....etc...imo.
It doesn't have to be something completely random like Emerl from Sonic Battle ro be considered a suprise 3rd party to me, i dunno.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

A surprise 3rd party character would be something like a Mana character, Claptrap from Boderlands, a MySim, a Fantasy Life character, a Zenless Zone Zero character, Pathfinder from Apex Legends....etc...imo.
It doesn't have to be something completely random like Emerl from Sonic Battle ro be considered a suprise 3rd party to me, i dunno.

None of these feel like Sakurai's definition of a "surprise character" to me.

A real shocker to me could be Putt Putt solely because the idea of a sentient car brings so many questions on how to make things work in Smash.

 

[chocolatejr9]

None of these feel like Sakurai's definition of a "surprise character" to me.

A real shocker to me could be Putt Putt solely because the idea of a sentient car brings so many questions on how to make things work in Smash.

IDK, a MySim before an actual Sim DOES sound kinda surprising to me...

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Like Peridot mentioned, the "objective" choice would be Another Dimension. It's a major location in RtDL and has been a consistently recurring location; having a campaign dedicated to it in Kirby: Star Allies, being the main location of Magolor's Extra Mode in RtDL DX, and popping up a fair bit in spinoffs
View attachment 399812View attachment 399813

This one would definitely stand out visually from the other stages.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Organization 13 Costume

This one is so perfect i wish it actually happened

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This one is so perfect i wish it actually happened

It could've even been one of those outfits that could be on all three Mii classes

 

[Shinuto]

A surprise 3rd party character would be something like a Mana character, Claptrap from Boderlands, a MySim, a Fantasy Life character, a Zenless Zone Zero character, Pathfinder from Apex Legends....etc...imo.
It doesn't have to be something completely random like Emerl from Sonic Battle ro be considered a suprise 3rd party to me, i dunno.

Chaos from Sonic or Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers would be ones for me.
Chaos and Marina would be sick as hell picks for wtf tier in third party camp.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

You know, it has been two or more (to a slight degree) weeks since we hit 2000 pages and we are already on page 2087. Not only does time fly, but we are fast at posting, it seems.

Chaos from Sonic or Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers would be ones for me.
Chaos and Marina would be sick as hell picks for wtf tier in third party camp.

I would actually love those two to be playable in Smash Bros., myself.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Which major video game company is the least likely to have a character in Smash?

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Which major video game company is the least likely to have a character in Smash?

Maybe Acclaim?

I say Acclaim because recently, they have come back from being defunct. Really!

 

[Shinuto]

Which major video game company is the least likely to have a character in Smash?

EA, they suck.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Which major video game company is the least likely to have a character in Smash?

Sony. Because they're Sony.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Which major video game company is the least likely to have a character in Smash?

I think my immediate answer is probably EA. Not that they don't have franchises with characters to fit Smash, but they've demonstrated little beyond token interest with the Switch and Nintendo in turn doesn't really feel like it's had any sort of strong relationship with them. Yearly sports games and the occasional Sims adjacent release seem to be the extent of work between the two, and it's hard to imagine that changing. Even Mass Effect ports can't get on the Switch, which tells you everything about how much Electronic Arts values the console.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yearly sports games seem to be the extent of work between the two, and it's hard to imagine that changing.

They also ported one of the MySims games to the Switch but that's about it.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It could've even been one of those outfits that could be on all three Mii classes

And if you attach it to the gunner the gun shows up as Xigbars

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Which major video game company is the least likely to have a character in Smash?

I guess Tencent if I had to pick one.

 

[The Prankster 16]

Alright, I'll ask about certain indie characters on what their chances are for the next possible game.

Starting with...Shovel Knight as the flagship for Yacht Club Games. What are his chances currently?
View attachment 399814

As much as I love the games and would be overjoyed if he made it in, I'm fine with him staying as an AT. He's kinda past his prime and I don't really think most indie characters really need or deserve a character slot. Not saying that I'm completley against them tho.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly I think with how big and influential the indie scene has gotten, I think indie characters should be a part of Smash's roster. And with games like Cave Story, Shovel Knight, Undertale, Hades, Journey, Outer Wilds, Hollow Knight, Five Nights at Freddy's, Among Us...There's really no shortage of indie games that made their mark, and there's a good handful of them that are iconic as games in general rather than just within the indie scene.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It also doesn't help that there hasn't quite been the universally liked (hyperbole, but you get what I mean) DD sequel like a Streets of Rage 4 or TMNT Shredder's Revenge to really get attention.

That's what Double Dragon Neon was.

It might because 16-bit beat em up nostalgia outweighs the 8-bit variety, but there's an almost Lara Croft like element to Double Dragon where most would respect it being in Smash... but not nearly as many are really clamoring for it.

I would be clamoring for it, if I wasn't already clamoring for Kunio.

River City and Double Dragon are practically the same franchise at this point. And Kunio/Riki are just better picks. They have way more games, more personality, and more moveset potential.

 

[cashregister9]

I was thinking about Steve earlier, and how since his release, there has been so many changes to Minecraft since then and whether or not those changes could be applied to the next smash, I'm not saying things like new items and stuff, but the biggest cosmetic changes that could be perceived like the new Ore textures that got added around the time of Steve's release or in the newest updates, Leaf Litter and different cows, chickens and pigs.

Also on the topic of Steve, I have thought about whether or not they change steve to resemble the promo art style, with the more flat textures and a wider range of movement

I think it would have been an interesting choice to go with that and in some ways I think it would fit a fighting game more, but the Minecraft game itself looks so wildly different from the promo art and the original is so iconic, that it not only was probably the better choice, but fits better with the "Character plays like they are playing the source game" philosophy.

(also current Steve is a top contender for funniest character in the game)

 

[DarthEnderX]

All Robot Masters as Costumes

ALL Robot Masters?!

Which major video game company is the least likely to have a character in Smash?

Sony. Duh.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also on the topic of Steve, I have thought about whether or not they change steve to resemble the promo art style, with the more flat textures and a wider range of movement

I don't think they'll do this, but I do think the Steve and Alex variant skins will be replaced with the new default skins they've added.

 

[BrawlX10]

Honestly I think with how big and influential the indie scene has gotten, I think indie characters should be a part of Smash's roster. And with games like Cave Story, Shovel Knight, Undertale, Hades, Journey, Outer Wilds, Hollow Knight, Five Nights at Freddy's, Among Us...There's really no shortage of indie games that made their mark, and there's a good handful of them that are iconic as games in general rather than just within the indie scene.

Honestly, i think Nintendo doesn't really care if a IP is owned by a indie or a AAA company, if we get a indie character it will probably be simply because Nintendo wanted that character or franchise in at the moment, and that character happened to be indie, like yes, they might boast "first playable indie character!!" for add purposes, but that's kinda about it most likely, indie IPs will be treated the same as IPs owned by big companies.
Indie characters are probably cheaper to license, that might honestly be a bigger draw for them than indie status per see lol.

I think the first indie will probs be either Sans or Hollow Knight, with Among Us Crewmate as a sleeper pick.

 

[SharkLord]

I don't want to be rude but I feel like we have these "hey who do you think the indie frontrunners are" talks about once a week at this point.

On a less curmudgeonly note, where can I ask about creating threads? I've been mulling over an idea for a while, but I dunno where to pitch it.